Post by: vorsprung on 12 March, 2017, 10:04:27 am
Basically the average garage doesn't stock anything except Crisps, Lucazade Sport and Fry's Chocolate creme that the vegan can eat. So when the only thing open is garages (or poorly equipped off licenses or Costa) there's no chance of any sustenance
I suppose it's an extension of the way that there is only junk food available at these places
Having said this, I was delighted to find the exception to the rule at the Tesco petrol station in Shepton Mallet. A Felafal / Humus wrap. It was marked down as well. Presumably garage food users don't eat this kind of thing
Post by: Ben T on 12 March, 2017, 10:54:08 am
Post by: Ian H on 12 March, 2017, 05:44:03 pm
Post by: Paul H on 12 March, 2017, 05:53:19 pm
Post by: hellymedic on 12 March, 2017, 11:56:01 pm
Post by: fuaran on 13 March, 2017, 02:55:55 am
For buying in shops:
Crisps
Peanuts
Bananas
Chocolate - Bournville is fairly common, and a few shops have Green & Blacks, or Lindt or Ritter Sport etc
Pitta bread or oatcakes, with hummus or peanut butter to spread on
Cereal bars / flapjack - there are a few vegan brands
Irn Bru
Pot noodles, if the garage has a kettle
Skittles, Starbursts
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 13 March, 2017, 08:51:34 am
Post by: Ben T on 13 March, 2017, 10:14:38 am
Post by: PeeJay on 13 March, 2017, 03:11:41 pm
Post by: LMT on 13 March, 2017, 09:23:29 pm
Post by: LMT on 13 March, 2017, 09:25:08 pm
I'm vegan. I tend to carry some jam & peanut butter sarnies just as back up, but often don't need them. Petrol station shops/coop/spar shops etc often sell fresh bananas, innocent smoothies, crisps, dark chocolate, ready prepared couscous pots , tinned fruit (carry a tin opener), choc chip hobnobs are vegan too. I've even found veg samosas on occasion too
Add to this Oreo's, oh yes they are vegan. A popular brand of biscuit that most self respecting garage should stock. :thumbsup:
Post by: rogerzilla on 18 March, 2017, 08:31:18 pm
Post by: hellymedic on 18 March, 2017, 08:41:49 pm
Post by: Wycombewheeler on 18 March, 2017, 09:02:10 pm
For audaxing - if you were a vegan during the hours of daylight, but ate whatever you like at night, would that work?Only on a full moon, surely.
Post by: Bianchi Boy on 19 March, 2017, 06:32:47 pm
While I have some admiration for people who feel strongly enough about a moral issue to go vegan it is vary hard to follow and from a biological view is not natural. There are plenty of sties on this and there are lots about how restricted diet affects mental health. See
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201211/youre-vegetarian-have-you-lost-your-mind (https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201211/youre-vegetarian-have-you-lost-your-mind)
Which is one of many.
I have wondered how various population groups in the world could eat vegan diets. Look at people who live in cold climates, there is just not enough plant matter for it to work.
Basically is you miss out any of the food groups you will have problems. Vegan food is really quite nice, but I also eat almost everything. The only thing I cannot consume is cheap wine. It is horrible. All this diet stuff really is a first world problem that could not be maintained if we lived in a rural idyll and relies on our globalisation and food processing.
Just a comment ....
BB
Post by: Bianchi Boy on 19 March, 2017, 06:43:57 pm
Yes, usually easy to carry enough food for the day. Sandwiches, or homemade carrot cake, or flapjack, or malt loaf (Soreen is not vegan, but most supermarket brands are).For years I thought most chocolate had some form of milk! You live and learn.
For buying in shops:
Crisps
Peanuts
Bananas
Chocolate - Bournville is fairly common, and a few shops have Green & Blacks, or Lindt or Ritter Sport etc
Pitta bread or oatcakes, with hummus or peanut butter to spread on
Cereal bars / flapjack - there are a few vegan brands
Irn Bru
Pot noodles, if the garage has a kettle
Skittles, Starbursts
Post by: Wobbly on 19 March, 2017, 07:03:48 pm
Post by: BlackSheep on 19 March, 2017, 07:20:02 pm
Beef and tomato pot noodles are vegan. Well, they're not claimed to be, but there is no meat or dairy on the ingredients list. They just "may" contain milk or eggs because of where they're made, and SO (who is a pretty hardcore vegan of the type who won't even have wool in the house or eat honey) will eat them.Sorry to burst the bubble, but "may" means "will" or "does". In the context. Voting closes on the nth of whatever month, if you vote after this date your vote won't be counted but you may still be charged".
If they weren't sure, the declaration would be "might" or "could".
Post by: hellymedic on 19 March, 2017, 07:44:13 pm
Yes, usually easy to carry enough food for the day. Sandwiches, or homemade carrot cake, or flapjack, or malt loaf (Soreen is not vegan, but most supermarket brands are).For years I thought most chocolate had some form of milk! You live and learn.
For buying in shops:
Crisps
Peanuts
Bananas
Chocolate - Bournville is fairly common, and a few shops have Green & Blacks, or Lindt or Ritter Sport etc
Pitta bread or oatcakes, with hummus or peanut butter to spread on
Cereal bars / flapjack - there are a few vegan brands
Irn Bru
Pot noodles, if the garage has a kettle
Skittles, Starbursts
Bourneville certainly contained butter when I was a kid but I haven't checked recently.
AFAIK Lindt Excellence high % dark chocolates are dairy-free.
Post by: hellymedic on 19 March, 2017, 07:57:47 pm
Don't know about brands they have taken over, like Green & Black.
Lindt does have some vegan chocolate.
Post by: fuaran on 19 March, 2017, 08:51:55 pm
Much the same with most of the dark Green & Blacks.
Post by: Wycombewheeler on 20 March, 2017, 12:18:50 pm
You may argue this is unacceptable to the true vegan but in reality you will probably ingest more animal protein from swallowed flies on the ride than from any such chocolate eaten.
Allergic reactions are of course a different matter.
Post by: telstarbox on 20 March, 2017, 12:40:38 pm
https://vegetariancac.org/
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 20 March, 2017, 12:47:05 pm
Hi,Did you actually read all of that?
While I have some admiration for people who feel strongly enough about a moral issue to go vegan it is vary hard to follow and from a biological view is not natural. There are plenty of sties on this and there are lots about how restricted diet affects mental health. See
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201211/youre-vegetarian-have-you-lost-your-mind (https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201211/youre-vegetarian-have-you-lost-your-mind)
Which is one of many.
I have wondered how various population groups in the world could eat vegan diets. Look at people who live in cold climates, there is just not enough plant matter for it to work.
Basically is you miss out any of the food groups you will have problems. Vegan food is really quite nice, but I also eat almost everything. The only thing I cannot consume is cheap wine. It is horrible. All this diet stuff really is a first world problem that could not be maintained if we lived in a rural idyll and relies on our globalisation and food processing.
Just a comment ....
BB
Quote
Temporally, the adoption of a vegetarian diet, on average, tended to follow the mental health diagnosis, suggesting that the vegetarian diet was not in fact causal.
Post by: wilkyboy on 20 March, 2017, 01:13:29 pm
Given the name of the event, which is a ride to Melton Mowbray, home of the humble pork pie, it's a bit of a quirky juxtaposition ;)
ps. we aren't vegetarian; do eat some meat, mostly chicken; don't drink cheap wine; like cake.
Post by: Ben T on 20 March, 2017, 02:52:05 pm
Hi,Did you actually read all of that?
While I have some admiration for people who feel strongly enough about a moral issue to go vegan it is vary hard to follow and from a biological view is not natural. There are plenty of sties on this and there are lots about how restricted diet affects mental health. See
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201211/youre-vegetarian-have-you-lost-your-mind (https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201211/youre-vegetarian-have-you-lost-your-mind)
Which is one of many.
I have wondered how various population groups in the world could eat vegan diets. Look at people who live in cold climates, there is just not enough plant matter for it to work.
Basically is you miss out any of the food groups you will have problems. Vegan food is really quite nice, but I also eat almost everything. The only thing I cannot consume is cheap wine. It is horrible. All this diet stuff really is a first world problem that could not be maintained if we lived in a rural idyll and relies on our globalisation and food processing.
Just a comment ....
BBQuoteTemporally, the adoption of a vegetarian diet, on average, tended to follow the mental health diagnosis, suggesting that the vegetarian diet was not in fact causal.
It possibly does suggest causality the other way round though
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 20 March, 2017, 02:54:05 pm
Post by: Delph Cyclist on 20 March, 2017, 05:30:50 pm
There is a Vegetarian Cycling and Athletic Club (which includes vegans) - they are a recognised club for Audax points.
Yes. The one just above VC Escargot on the Clubs List
Post by: Bianchi Boy on 20 March, 2017, 06:11:21 pm
So are you suggesting that vegetarians are just nuts anyway and the diet comes later?Hi,Did you actually read all of that?
While I have some admiration for people who feel strongly enough about a moral issue to go vegan it is vary hard to follow and from a biological view is not natural. There are plenty of sties on this and there are lots about how restricted diet affects mental health. See
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201211/youre-vegetarian-have-you-lost-your-mind (https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201211/youre-vegetarian-have-you-lost-your-mind)
Which is one of many.
I have wondered how various population groups in the world could eat vegan diets. Look at people who live in cold climates, there is just not enough plant matter for it to work.
Basically is you miss out any of the food groups you will have problems. Vegan food is really quite nice, but I also eat almost everything. The only thing I cannot consume is cheap wine. It is horrible. All this diet stuff really is a first world problem that could not be maintained if we lived in a rural idyll and relies on our globalisation and food processing.
Just a comment ....
BBQuoteTemporally, the adoption of a vegetarian diet, on average, tended to follow the mental health diagnosis, suggesting that the vegetarian diet was not in fact causal.
It possibly does suggest causality the other way round though
BB
Post by: lahoski on 20 March, 2017, 06:49:48 pm
It's not though, mate. I was interested to read a thread about vegan nutrition and long distance cycling and hoping to find some useful tips. Instead I feel belittled by someone else's unconsidered and uninvited opinion.
Just a comment ....
Post by: mattc on 20 March, 2017, 06:53:58 pm
Hi,
While I have some admiration for people who feel strongly enough about a moral issue to go vegan, it is very hard to follow
Peace and love dudes :-*
Post by: Bianchi Boy on 20 March, 2017, 07:10:11 pm
Eh-eh, calm down! No need to fall-out. I'm sure BB only meant well; perhaps worth rereading his initial words:Hi I have no axe to grind on diet, but if you choose to exclude some major food groups that we are evolved to eat, there will be problems. Look at the Atkins diet, fruitarians and many other restricted diets. They all have problems and the fact that Vegans spend so much time researching and trying to sort out what they eat tells you something. If you feel there is a moral stand to make then you are more principalled than me who only uses his taste buds to select food.Hi,
While I have some admiration for people who feel strongly enough about a moral issue to go vegan, it is very hard to follow
Peace and love dudes :-*
Good luck with trying to follow the vegan way, but it is not what we evolved to eat.
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
Post by: LMT on 20 March, 2017, 09:15:56 pm
Eh-eh, calm down! No need to fall-out. I'm sure BB only meant well; perhaps worth rereading his initial words:Hi I have no axe to grind on diet, but if you choose to exclude some major food groups that we are evolved to eat, there will be problems. Look at the Atkins diet, fruitarians and many other restricted diets. They all have problems and the fact that Vegans spend so much time researching and trying to sort out what they eat tells you something. If you feel there is a moral stand to make then you are more principalled than me who only uses his taste buds to select food.Hi,
While I have some admiration for people who feel strongly enough about a moral issue to go vegan, it is very hard to follow
Peace and love dudes :-*
Good luck with trying to follow the vegan way, but it is not what we evolved to eat.
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
You have and you're talking rubbish.
Here's a tip: When trolling at least try and give an idea that you know what you are going about rather than going on about some wank appeal to nature fallacy. Try harder next time brao.
Post by: Tull924 on 21 March, 2017, 09:35:11 am
Hi I have no axe to grind on diet, but if you choose to exclude some major food groups that we are evolved to eat, there will be problems.
Vegan's exclude meat and dairy (and more, I know) from their diet
There have been non-meat eaters for centuries, just look at India and China who have only just started to increase meat consumption
There have been non-dairy consumers as long as there has been lactose intolerance
Are you suggesting that people who exclude gluten from their diet have all got it wrong as well and they should ensure they eat bread regardless of a gluten intolerance for example?
Good luck with trying to follow the vegan way, but it is not what we evolved to eat.
Unfortunately that is the common misconception that we are taught from an early age. I was 27 before I decided to look behind what had been told to me from an early age.
the fact that Vegans spend so much time researching and trying to sort out what they eat tells you something
Yes it tell's you that options for vegans are not as easy as the general "anything goes" population, hence the actual existence of this thread
For what it is worth (and it is really nobody business but mine) I have been vegetarian for about 17 years. I suffer from dandruff and athlete's foot, which afflicted me before the dietary change
lokah samastah sukhino bhavantu - May all the beings in all the worlds be happy and free
Post by: Ben T on 21 March, 2017, 12:14:32 pm
So are you suggesting that vegetarians are just nuts anyway and the diet comes later?Well you know what they say, you are what you eat :)
BB
Post by: IJL on 21 March, 2017, 01:57:16 pm
Quote
I have no axe to grind on diet, but if you choose to exclude some major food groups that we are evolved to eat, there will be problems.
I'm not sure I would view evolution like that, we evolved to eat whatever was available in the immediate area, at certain times of year that would have amounted to very little. In evolutionary terms agriculture is a bit of a new fangled idea and for most of out history we were hunter gatherers and had to live off whatever could be found in walking distance. I'm not sure that it would be possible to be vegan/ vegetarian in many parts of the world under such circumstances. Happily we have now progressed to the point that you can get almost any food stuff at any time of year. Unhappily overconsumption is now one of the greatest threats to health.
Post by: Charlotte on 21 March, 2017, 04:54:12 pm
Eating a vegan diet might not be natural, but as long as you have a care to get your B12 and one or two other things, it's not going to do you any harm. Might even end up being the best food choice you ever made.
Post by: GrahamG on 21 March, 2017, 05:06:26 pm
Audaxing started soon after I lost a shedload of weight on an extended cycle tour and frankly just killed my veganism dead with a severe case of 'I just can't be arsed anymore'. I remember it like yesterday, ~200km in to my first ever 300 (the elenith when it started near Kiddy) and I'd had veg soup and bread roll at a control, I did the thousand yard stare at the menu after soup didn't touch the sides and said 'apple pie and custard please'. I think I even had a second portion.
In all honesty, I think because I was a bit slow and inefficient in terms of my riding fuel, that would have exacerbated things. There are folks that can get around a 200k in 7 hours on little more than a coke and a pack of crisps, and many more slower, but efficient riders that can stash more than enough food in saddle bags to fill in gaps in inadequate control/24hr garage provision - there's plenty of folk carry the kitchen sink without even carrying food so the reality of a few extra kg of sarnies, home made energy bars and other bonk rations isn't that awful.
Post by: Bianchi Boy on 21 March, 2017, 08:38:20 pm
I'm not even a vegan (although I eat an almost exclusively plant based diet these days) but I know we can survive on pretty much anything. A few months of no animal products whatsoever and paying attention to my macros and I'm in the best health I've been in *years*. Weight down, BP down, cholesterol down - all to within recommended levels for a woman my age.I think the main point to take from this is that there are things you want to eat and things you must eat. Some of the must is in animals, but the quantities are really quite small. A doctor friend of mine only eats 250g of animal flesh a week and of high quality, swears that he gets all the stuff you cannot get from plants.
Eating a vegan diet might not be natural, but as long as you have a care to get your B12 and one or two other things, it's not going to do you any harm. Might even end up being the best food choice you ever made.
As has been pointed out up thread we evolved to eat almost anything and we need lots of variety. There are lots of examples around the world of people who live a long time on plants, whale blubber, shell fish, milk ......... The real thing I take from this is do not get too hung up on what you eat, have lots of variety and FFS enjoy it :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Post by: LMT on 22 March, 2017, 12:01:49 pm
I'm not even a vegan (although I eat an almost exclusively plant based diet these days) but I know we can survive on pretty much anything. A few months of no animal products whatsoever and paying attention to my macros and I'm in the best health I've been in *years*. Weight down, BP down, cholesterol down - all to within recommended levels for a woman my age.I think the main point to take from this is that there are things you want to eat and things you must eat. Some of the must is in animals, but the quantities are really quite small. A doctor friend of mine only eats 250g of animal flesh a week and of high quality, swears that he gets all the stuff you cannot get from plants.
Eating a vegan diet might not be natural, but as long as you have a care to get your B12 and one or two other things, it's not going to do you any harm. Might even end up being the best food choice you ever made.
As has been pointed out up thread we evolved to eat almost anything and we need lots of variety. There are lots of examples around the world of people who live a long time on plants, whale blubber, shell fish, milk ......... The real thing I take from this is do not get too hung up on what you eat, have lots of variety and FFS enjoy it :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Like what?
Post by: Bianchi Boy on 22 March, 2017, 03:14:06 pm
B12I'm not even a vegan (although I eat an almost exclusively plant based diet these days) but I know we can survive on pretty much anything. A few months of no animal products whatsoever and paying attention to my macros and I'm in the best health I've been in *years*. Weight down, BP down, cholesterol down - all to within recommended levels for a woman my age.I think the main point to take from this is that there are things you want to eat and things you must eat. Some of the must is in animals, but the quantities are really quite small. A doctor friend of mine only eats 250g of animal flesh a week and of high quality, swears that he gets all the stuff you cannot get from plants.
Eating a vegan diet might not be natural, but as long as you have a care to get your B12 and one or two other things, it's not going to do you any harm. Might even end up being the best food choice you ever made.
As has been pointed out up thread we evolved to eat almost anything and we need lots of variety. There are lots of examples around the world of people who live a long time on plants, whale blubber, shell fish, milk ......... The real thing I take from this is do not get too hung up on what you eat, have lots of variety and FFS enjoy it
Like what?
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
Post by: PeeJay on 22 March, 2017, 03:31:31 pm
B12 is produced by bacteria and is therefore vegan, the only reason B12 is in animal products is because they eat grass directly from the earth, drink from streams etc. I could get my B12 the same way, drinking from streams etc , or in this modern sanitised world could take a supplement or eat fortified foods.
So what are the "one or two other things?"
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk
Post by: rabbit on 22 March, 2017, 03:52:55 pm
I don't understand the issue here.
Firstly, do John Hamilton's events, because he is absolutely top notch for providing masses of vegan food. I was fatter when I finished the Mille Cymru than when I started :P
Secondly - learn what you can get at all outlets that works well as a fall back - for me, peanuts, prawn cocktail crisps, various chocolate and biscuits are available at even the most basic of forecourts. Most back-of-beyond cafes can knock up baked beans on toast/spud/chips - and that's the worst case. Even in the depths of darkest Wales I normally find a good soya latte nowadays, and a cafe owner keen to help out on the eating front. If there is a supermarket of any type, co-op or an M&S then you are really sorted, loads of vegan options!
Some of my DIYs are so remote I don't actually see a shop or cafe anyway, so I carry enough with me. If you can't carry enough food for a 200 km then there is something seriously wrong somewhere. If you can't fit in flapjacks, veggie sausage rolls, banana, salad and hummus wrap and a bag of barbecue cashew nuts in a jersey, you need a bigger jersey!
Don't forget tho - it's a case of do what you can. So going 'oh, it's too hard, I can't avoid butter on my toast so I may as well stuff as much intensively reared meat into me as possible' makes no sense whatsoever. Saying 'oh, I'm struggling to avoid butter here so I'll eat this toast, but I'll do my best to find something at the next control', makes much more sense. No one is perfect, everyone draws the line where they chose to. I personally would just skip a control rather than eat meat or dairy - but then I'm vegan for ethical reasons. An audax is just a bike ride.....I wouldn't compromise my ethics over something so trivial. Others no doubt would disagree.
Post by: vorsprung on 22 March, 2017, 09:05:32 pm
If you can't carry enough food for a 200 km then there is something seriously wrong somewhere.
I guess it is all just lack of planning. It is easier to non vegan if you were hoping to rely on stuff you find out and about
Post by: LMT on 22 March, 2017, 09:37:36 pm
B12I'm not even a vegan (although I eat an almost exclusively plant based diet these days) but I know we can survive on pretty much anything. A few months of no animal products whatsoever and paying attention to my macros and I'm in the best health I've been in *years*. Weight down, BP down, cholesterol down - all to within recommended levels for a woman my age.I think the main point to take from this is that there are things you want to eat and things you must eat. Some of the must is in animals, but the quantities are really quite small. A doctor friend of mine only eats 250g of animal flesh a week and of high quality, swears that he gets all the stuff you cannot get from plants.
Eating a vegan diet might not be natural, but as long as you have a care to get your B12 and one or two other things, it's not going to do you any harm. Might even end up being the best food choice you ever made.
As has been pointed out up thread we evolved to eat almost anything and we need lots of variety. There are lots of examples around the world of people who live a long time on plants, whale blubber, shell fish, milk ......... The real thing I take from this is do not get too hung up on what you eat, have lots of variety and FFS enjoy it
Like what?
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
It pains me that someone could be this ignorant, yes you can get B12 from animals but as PeeJay mentions B12 you can get from other sources.
Certainly not a case of you must eat animal products or you become B12 deficient.
Post by: Simon E on 27 March, 2017, 10:00:59 pm
I think the main point to take from this is that there are things you want to eat and things you must eat. Some of the must is in animals, but the quantities are really quite small.
This is so wide of the mark I'm struggling with the thought that, even with access to the wonders of the internet, you actually believe this rubbish.
Lots of people are vegetarian or vegan and live healthy, active lives. They don't wither away due to a lack of B12. ::-)
Don't believe me? Look up Mike Cotty or listen to Rich Roll's podcast interview with him (an ultrarunner who is "powered by plants", as he describes it). Or world famous ultrarunner Scott Jurek.
There are other cyclists who are veggie or vegan; Robert Millar chose to eat a meat-free diet while racing as a professional. Former Year record holder Tommy Godwin and previous holder Walter Greaves were both strict vegetarians. Chris Bennett has been a vegetarian for 27 years and completed the 2013 Tour Divide and 2015 Transcontinental. There will be lots more. I personally know several active people who have chosen a vegan or vegetarian diet for one reason or another and feel better for it. One of them is a registered Dietitian. If anyone should know what she's doing...
Average life expectancy is greater for vegetarians and vegans than meat eaters. I suspect more people in the UK have low Vitamin D levels and there is evidence to suggest that many of us possibly have poor levels of other vitamins and minerals (but not due to a lack of meat).
I'm not saying you have to eat the same way, I have no axe to grind. It would just be helpful if you got your facts right.
Post by: adam w on 29 March, 2017, 08:34:39 pm
Post by: hellymedic on 29 March, 2017, 08:42:27 pm
Holiday Inn put on a nice vegan dish for me at the reunion just gone :thumbsup:
I am not a vegan but thought my vegan tablemates had a poor/raw deal. I suppose expectations vary.
Nobody starved anyway...
Post by: adam w on 29 March, 2017, 08:56:18 pm
Post by: hellymedic on 29 March, 2017, 09:37:29 pm
Suggests pretty poor catering.
I don't know if the Mushroom and Leak [sic] Stroganoff was vegan-friendly.
Post by: alotronic on 30 March, 2017, 10:23:04 am
I think if you want to be a vegan audaxer the only thing stopping you is the will to experiment (and carry a few extra bits of food with you.)
As a coeliac I used to 'panic pack' convinced that I would never find anything gluten free to eat in the middle of rural england. The reality is I can now find enough halfway ok food in just about any shop in the country - enough to get me to the next decent meal (95% of the time jacket potato) anyway. All I tend to carry at the start of a leg now are a couple of snack bars, a banana and a gel.
PBP was, however, horrible for me. So I have a ridiculous plan for next time involving parking my car at about 450k and stuffing it with GF food!
I am more confident about LEL on account of being able to stop at cafes between controls to eat, though I would prefer to control as its more social.
What I have become aware of being a Coeliac is that I often put my anxiety into this bucket - hence the overpacking - and its only with a few years experience that I am beginning to let that go.
Practically speaking you should read a lot of labels for all the usual kind of food you find in local shops so that you can go into a shop in the middle of nowhere and find something to eat instantly - saves time and bother. For me it's a banana milk and a bag of jellybabies if things get difficult, I know that will get me 50km further down the road. I would often prefer to have something else, but hey, it doesn't worry me so much anymore.
Otherwise I would say that it's entirely your choice, I don't think you need to do anything particularly special for Audax as a vegan - depleting yourself for a day of anything is not going to do you any harm. Audax is a broad church and there are many kinds of approaches and many types of people and eating. You have to sort it out for yourself, sure, but it's no one else's business what you eat and if you are prepared to do your homework you will be fine!
Post by: hellymedic on 30 March, 2017, 12:48:33 pm
Means I can choose my purchases without dithering and frustrating others.
I am not vegan/coeliac/lactose intolerant, though friends are.
I am a disabled person with far too much computer time on my hands.
Post by: lahoski on 31 March, 2017, 12:01:35 pm
But then at that point you might have enough luggage space?
Post by: adam w on 01 April, 2017, 08:55:28 pm
Post by: hellymedic on 01 April, 2017, 09:17:03 pm
Things may have move onward since 2000 though.
Post by: fd3 on 01 April, 2017, 11:30:35 pm
If I was audaxing vegan I'd carry food, a packet of crisps, coke and dark chocolate isn't food for cycling imo; if that's what I'm reduced to things have gone to pot.
Two more weeks to go!
Post by: CountrySickness on 02 April, 2017, 08:57:13 pm
Rides of 200 and under are easy, good black coffee, Jacob's fig rolls, a nakd bar or 2, nuts and fruit juice are all that's required.
Over 200 and I'll either research http://www.eatoutvegan.wales/ for somewhere to stop or take oat cakes to go with a pot of hummus. Spar shops often sell some great vegan meze dishes in a pot too, but it is nice to sit down and eat in cafe.
In the days when I was part of a "vegan scene" I knew lots of porky vegans, IMO the vegan weight loss thing is mostly bollocks.
Post by: CountrySickness on 02 April, 2017, 08:58:01 pm
Post by: hellymedic on 02 April, 2017, 09:11:17 pm
Vegan of nearly 20 years here and contrary to some of the sh't mentioned on this thread no limbs have fallen off and I've also won quite a few club TT trophies.
In the days when I was part of a "vegan scene" I knew lots of porky vegans, IMO the vegan weight loss thing is mostly bollocks.
Given that sugar, flour, nuts and vegetable oil are all acceptable for vegans, it would not be hard to get fat on these...
I know sensible people don't just eat biscuits and crisps but...
Post by: Alismed on 26 September, 2017, 12:00:39 pm
On the issue of evolution; I feel our lives are very far removed from our 'natural' state and the best we can do is live honestly and thoughtfully within the world as we find it. Spending some time looking at your food sources and nutrition seems a good idea whatever diet you follow and enables us to make informed decisions. For many this involves ethics and compassion towards animals, the planet, other people and (toughest of all?!) ourselves. ;D ;D
Post by: paddyirish on 26 September, 2017, 12:06:27 pm
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 26 September, 2017, 01:03:31 pm
Post by: whosatthewheel on 26 September, 2017, 01:16:42 pm
Post by: Peter on 26 September, 2017, 01:23:07 pm
Post by: PeeJay on 26 September, 2017, 01:32:38 pm
Biggest problem for a vegan randonneur is where to source a decent saddleBrooks Cambium
Post by: citoyen on 26 September, 2017, 01:34:56 pm
On my Cambridge Pork Pie event at the weekend, everything at arrivée was intentionally vegetarian, and the (homemade) soup and stew were vegan and gluten-free.
I had one declared vegan on my 200 which prompted me to adapt the recipe for the flapjacks I was providing at the start to use Trex instead of butter. I don't think anyone even noticed - certainly didn't get any complaints, far from it. I had considered doing two batches, one with butter, one with Trex, but then I decided that was too much faff. Nutritionally, there's nothing missing from a vegan flapjack - in fact, because I also added fresh fruit (apples) to the recipe, they were probably more nutritious than most.
I also made some pastries using shop-bought puff pastry, which may or may not be vegan - ingredients list only vegetable fats, but I wouldn't trust them not to contain traces of dairy.
Also made sure I included a proper vegan option in the food at the finish too. I don't think it hurts organisers to cater for the increasing numbers of vegan cyclists, and it's no hardship for non-vegans to go without meat or dairy occasionally, so if I were doing the catering at the finish myself, I would probably make all the food vegan.
What's more, meat and dairy products are expensive, so vegan food is often cheaper, which is an important consideration for audax organisers on a limited budget (my flapjacks were about 40% cheaper than if I'd used butter).
Post by: citoyen on 26 September, 2017, 01:36:38 pm
I nearly gave up eating saddles for this reason.
Only nearly? :o
Post by: Ben T on 26 September, 2017, 01:37:19 pm
Biggest problem for a vegan randonneur is where to source a decent saddleEasy, just get a second hand one. You haven't contributed to the market and thus haven't increased sales demand which in turn is what causes cows to be farmed. Although there is probably more demand for meat than leather anyway so it's going spare really.
Or get an smp.
Post by: PeeJay on 26 September, 2017, 01:54:29 pm
Everyone has their own morals, but I personally wouldn't want a leather saddle on my bike even if it was second-hand.Biggest problem for a vegan randonneur is where to source a decent saddleEasy, just get a second hand one. You haven't contributed to the market and thus haven't increased sales demand which in turn is what causes cows to be farmed. Although there is probably more demand for meat than leather anyway so it's going spare really.
Or get an smp.
As for your comment that leather is "going spare", no it isn't , it's still part of the animal agriculture economy and money is going to the farmers, slaughter houses etc something that I do not wish to contribute to.
Post by: PeeJay on 26 September, 2017, 01:57:06 pm
Post by: Ben T on 26 September, 2017, 03:26:54 pm
Everyone has their own morals, but I personally wouldn't want a leather saddle on my bike even if it was second-hand.Biggest problem for a vegan randonneur is where to source a decent saddleEasy, just get a second hand one. You haven't contributed to the market and thus haven't increased sales demand which in turn is what causes cows to be farmed. Although there is probably more demand for meat than leather anyway so it's going spare really.
Or get an smp.
As for your comment that leather is "going spare", no it isn't , it's still part of the animal agriculture economy and money is going to the farmers, slaughter houses etc something that I do not wish to contribute to.
If no one bought leather goods then cow hides would simply get binned.
Post by: PeeJay on 26 September, 2017, 03:31:49 pm
And meat would become more expensive to produceEveryone has their own morals, but I personally wouldn't want a leather saddle on my bike even if it was second-hand.Biggest problem for a vegan randonneur is where to source a decent saddleEasy, just get a second hand one. You haven't contributed to the market and thus haven't increased sales demand which in turn is what causes cows to be farmed. Although there is probably more demand for meat than leather anyway so it's going spare really.
Or get an smp.
As for your comment that leather is "going spare", no it isn't , it's still part of the animal agriculture economy and money is going to the farmers, slaughter houses etc something that I do not wish to contribute to.
If no one bought leather goods then cow hides would simply get binned.
Post by: Veloman on 26 September, 2017, 03:55:49 pm
Post by: Alismed on 26 September, 2017, 04:13:51 pm
Post by: menthel on 26 September, 2017, 04:43:32 pm
I nearly gave up eating saddles for this reason.
Only nearly? :o
I usually end up gnawing on my handlebars when the road heads upwards. Easier to get to.
Post by: Somnolent on 26 September, 2017, 05:17:43 pm
Thanks for mentioning SMP though. They always used to be leather covered, so I've always avoided them. Just googled after your comment and it looks like they are now synthetic :)
I read recently that whlst the coloured SMP were now covered with a synthetic material, the black ones were still leather-covered. I did go to the trouble of trying a couple of their models in the hope of finding something lighter, more modern looking, and even more comfortable than the Brooks Swift. No luck, none of them were bearable beyond a couple of hours. Bottom line [pun fully intended] is that were it not for Brooks leather saddles I simply would not be an audax rider.
Post by: Lee Velo on 27 September, 2017, 04:59:42 pm
Some controls are great, there is soya milk, normally bananas and the flapjacks might be good to go.
Others may not have as much available. I've got more confident in letting an organiser know so that they can facilitate, after all, I am contributing to the food fund!
In the big bad world, I generally know whats available...Coke, Lucozade, paprika crisps, dark chocolate, oreos, the odd falafal wrap, hummus and pitta bread, Mcdonalds Veggie burgers (no mayo) and chips/beans on toast at a cafe.
It can be tough at times, but I can hand on heart say that being ridiculed by the 'old school' is probably more difficult to contend with than not having cows milk in my tea at the start.
Post by: whosatthewheel on 27 September, 2017, 05:29:15 pm
Thanks for mentioning SMP though. They always used to be leather covered, so I've always avoided them. Just googled after your comment and it looks like they are now synthetic :)
I read recently that whlst the coloured SMP were now covered with a synthetic material, the black ones were still leather-covered. I did go to the trouble of trying a couple of their models in the hope of finding something lighter, more modern looking, and even more comfortable than the Brooks Swift. No luck, none of them were bearable beyond a couple of hours. Bottom line [pun fully intended] is that were it not for Brooks leather saddles I simply would not be an audax rider.
Same here, I'd love something that weighs less than a pound, but > 200 km it's the only saddle that works
Post by: Carlosfandango on 27 September, 2017, 05:31:46 pm
QuoteI have no axe to grind on diet, but if you choose to exclude some major food groups that we are evolved to eat, there will be problems.
I'm not sure I would view evolution like that, we evolved to eat whatever was available in the immediate area, at certain times of year that would have amounted to very little. In evolutionary terms agriculture is a bit of a new fangled idea and for most of out history we were hunter gatherers and had to live off whatever could be found in walking distance. I'm not sure that it would be possible to be vegan/ vegetarian in many parts of the world under such circumstances. Happily we have now progressed to the point that you can get almost any food stuff at any time of year. Unhappily overconsumption is now one of the greatest threats to health.
This is exactly correct and it is in fact the usual western diet, consumed in excess, that is creating problems not just for the individual in terms of their health, but also for society and the planet. Veganism is not just of benefit to the individual but is also more efficient in terms of food production and has a lower enviromental impact.
When one hears codswallop intimating you`ll be ill if you don`t eat meat you really do have to roll your eyes ::-)
Post by: CountrySickness on 27 September, 2017, 08:44:54 pm
Biggest problem for a vegan randonneur is where to source a decent saddleBrooks Cambium
It it all of comfy hard wearing and non-short destroying? I've fondled many a Brooks Cambium in a shop it looks very uncomfortable, a bit flaky and very abrasive although I am open to persausion otherwise as I can't find any other vegan saddles that suit after a 10 year search ::-)
Post by: Veloman on 27 September, 2017, 10:11:13 pm
Post by: IanN on 27 September, 2017, 10:36:04 pm
It it all of comfy hard wearing and non-short destroying? I've fondled many a Brooks Cambium in a shop it looks very uncomfortable, a bit flaky and very abrasive although I am open to persausion otherwise as I can't find any other vegan saddles that suit after a 10 year search ::-)
Somebody around here (fboab?) recommended sanding the edges before use. I did this and have had no problems. My C15 carved is ace - only tested up to 200 miles I spose. C15 seems firmer, but that bike is more upright so not a fair comparison. New waterproof version probably less prone to sudocrem marks... :(
Post by: hellymedic on 27 September, 2017, 11:20:25 pm
Cambium did not suit my partner.
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 27 September, 2017, 11:56:17 pm
Post by: PeeJay on 28 September, 2017, 07:52:29 am
Saddles are a very personal thing and, while Cambiums aren't perfect - (I've modified mine to improve comfort further) , they are the closest to to saddle nirvana I've found so far.
The carved version is quite soft. The cut out doesn't seem to do much to relieve pressure but it does allow more flex - too much flex for me. I find that it's so hammock like that there's only one sitting position on (in?) it & I like to move about on the saddle a bit.
Out of the box I found the standard c15 to be the other extreme, it's a bit hard and starts to get uncomfortable at about 300kms or so. I've added a bit more flex to mine by taking it apart and drilling out the rear rivet holes in the rubber top from 6mm to 10mm. This allows about 2mm of movement in the rivets and a bit more sag but nowhere near as much as the carved version. Completely voids the warranty of course, but more comfy for me.
Post by: EllysH on 28 September, 2017, 11:45:35 am
I'm lactose intollorant and used to fuel with snickers and the like, being unable to eat chocolate has not me pretty hard. Mostly because it has always been something I could stuff down my gob and enjoy. My replacement foods (nuts, peanut butter and 9 bars) are far less easy to scoff. Recently bonked 100k into an imperial century because I didn't eat it was too late.
Seems that the wisdom is to eat more normally.
Post by: Exit Stage Left on 28 September, 2017, 12:55:23 pm
I suppose that's one reason why I've never really encountered any vegan cooks on the various events I've helped cater on. I was in my early 20s, when I was catering for environmentalists, and lots of them had dietary preferences.
Now that I'm I'm almost 60, I don't meet many vegans of my age, although I mix with much the same people. So the volunteers helping out on Audaxes tend not to be vegans. Vegans tend to be riders.
Since the 1980s, allergies and intolerances have become more widespread. If I was catering today I'd make the same pulses and rice based dish for all those with dietary preferences, from vegans to Muslims. I could then try to make that the best lentil gloop possible. It's likely that 90% of the field would have no special dietary needs.
Perhaps the best solution would be for vegans to organise their own ride, so we could all experience the joys of cruelty-free catering. I tend to bounce controls, and subsist on pasties and Coke, so such a scheme would be fine by me, as vegan ingredients are cheap, so I wouldn't be wasting money.
Post by: Lee Velo on 28 September, 2017, 02:55:58 pm
Perhaps the best solution would be for vegans to organise their own ride, so we could all experience the joys of cruelty-free catering. I tend to bounce controls, and subsist on pasties and Coke, so such a scheme would be fine by me, as vegan ingredients are cheap, so I wouldn't be wasting money.
You've clearly never had the pleasure of inviting non vegans to a vegan event. I've known of family members to boycott weddings because the bride and groom put on a vegan spread, people turn there noses up instantly if you dare offer them a 'vegan' cookie or a veggie burger.
By your own admission, if such an event was put on, you would bounce the controls and not 'experience the joy of cruelty-free catering'
Post by: fuaran on 28 September, 2017, 03:30:57 pm
In general I've found ultrarunning events do a better job of catering for vegans than audaxes do. One reason why I haven't bothered to do many audaxes recently.
Post by: hellymedic on 28 September, 2017, 03:35:57 pm
Post by: Exit Stage Left on 28 September, 2017, 05:22:25 pm
By your own admission, if such an event was put on, you would bounce the controls and not 'experience the joy of cruelty-free catering'
Were such event to be staged, I wouldn't go. As I don't have a saddle without leather on it, so wouldn't feel comfortable. I do like to observe the traditions of individuals and groups.
It would be lovely if vegans had their own SR series, so as not to have to compromise their beliefs.
Post by: Lee Velo on 30 September, 2017, 06:54:03 am
By your own admission, if such an event was put on, you would bounce the controls and not 'experience the joy of cruelty-free catering'
Were such event to be staged, I wouldn't go. As I don't have a saddle without leather on it, so wouldn't feel comfortable. I do like to observe the traditions of individuals and groups.
It would be lovely if vegans had their own SR series, so as not to have to compromise their beliefs.
I would imagine that MOST Vegan cyclists I know have the saddle the bike came with. Which is probably made of synthetic leather, or if it isn't, probably hasn't been replaced due to the difficulties for finding a 'Vegan saddle'. It's certainly one of the thing where you can only do your best.
Not the first post I've seen on here suggesting that:
a)Vegans should do their own event
b)Vegans shouldn't rely on controls to serve Vegan food and 'may' have to eat elsewhere as it's far too restrictive and difficult to serve pasta or beans on toast.
There is a reason that some of us stick on a Vegan jersey and go to mainstream events, as lurking in the shadows with other Vegans isn't going to change the world and certainly isn't going to help us show how easy it is to be Vegan!
Post by: mattc on 30 September, 2017, 08:25:27 am
Even if the organisers made it clear that you - and your saddle - were welcome?
By your own admission, if such an event was put on, you would bounce the controls and not 'experience the joy of cruelty-free catering'
Were such event to be staged, I wouldn't go. As I don't have a saddle without leather on it, so wouldn't feel comfortable. I do like to observe the traditions of individuals and groups.
I might be wrong, but Lee's post suggests that would be the case.
Post by: Lee Velo on 30 September, 2017, 09:42:38 am
Even if the organisers made it clear that you - and your saddle - were welcome?
By your own admission, if such an event was put on, you would bounce the controls and not 'experience the joy of cruelty-free catering'
Were such event to be staged, I wouldn't go. As I don't have a saddle without leather on it, so wouldn't feel comfortable. I do like to observe the traditions of individuals and groups.
I might be wrong, but Lee's post suggests that would be the case.
Unless the saddle is made of alligator skin. Then I would think eyebrows would be raised.
Post by: Veloman on 30 September, 2017, 09:56:38 am
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 30 September, 2017, 10:39:10 am
Surely, if a vegan audax were organised, then non-vegan options should be available, such as meat/dairy, as vegan options are provided on non-vegan audax events.No. That is unreasonable and unnecessary. I have to ask if you are trolling, to be honest.
For medical reasons, I have to eat a restricted diet. So meals in my household are gluten free. Everyone else in the house can eat them.
Meat eaters can eat vegan food. Vegans can't eat (by choice) meat food. It is a very unusual and odd meat eater who doesn't eat vegetables, beans, carbs. Someone on a ketosis-diet would struggle, but then they'd struggle on a 'normal' control with servings of pasta + cheese.
Post by: PeeJay on 30 September, 2017, 10:41:31 am
Surely, if a vegan audax were organised, then non-vegan options should be available, such as meat/dairy, as vegan options are provided on non-vegan audax events.This thread is getting increasingly bizarre.
The whole thing is a bit of a non issue to me. Being a vegan on an Audax is just as easy as being a vegan in everyday life while out and about.
Post by: LMT on 30 September, 2017, 12:35:29 pm
Surely, if a vegan audax were organised, then non-vegan options should be available, such as meat/dairy, as vegan options are provided on non-vegan audax events.
You either miss the point or don't understand Vegans and Veganism - at all
Post by: Ivan on 30 September, 2017, 01:31:02 pm
Post by: Bianchi Boy on 30 September, 2017, 02:52:27 pm
But they can eat bacon rasher snack food - cos it is not real bacon flavor.
BB
Post by: Exit Stage Left on 30 September, 2017, 03:04:18 pm
Even if the organisers made it clear that you - and your saddle - were welcome?
By your own admission, if such an event was put on, you would bounce the controls and not 'experience the joy of cruelty-free catering'
Were such event to be staged, I wouldn't go. As I don't have a saddle without leather on it, so wouldn't feel comfortable. I do like to observe the traditions of individuals and groups.
I might be wrong, but Lee's post suggests that would be the case.
Catering for Vegans is an obligation of hospitality. If I had observant Moslem guests, I would work with Halal ingredients. However I wouldn't attend a service in their Mosque, as my lack of belief would be an insult to the sincerity of theirs.
It's correct to point out that if I rode a Vegan-catered event, i would stop off for pasties and bacon-butties. That would be a mockery of the intentions of the caterers, so I wouldn't do it as a matter of respect, and would avoid such an event.
I see it as important to be tolerant and inclusive to all beliefs. I'm embedded in pastoral culture. a large part of my income is from field boundary work, enclosing stock. Another strand is from forestry work, and although I don't shoot deer myself, that's a component of that activity.
I understand the process that leads to people like me catering for Vegans. Why would they want to work in a kitchen that's using animal products?
Post by: hellymedic on 30 September, 2017, 03:53:38 pm
It's correct to point out that if I rode a Vegan-catered event, i would stop off for pasties and bacon-butties. That would be a mockery of the intentions of the caterers, so I wouldn't do it as a matter of respect, and would avoid such an event.
I see it as important to be tolerant and inclusive to all beliefs. I'm embedded in pastoral culture. a large part of my income is from field boundary work, enclosing stock. Another strand is from forestry work, and although I don't shoot deer myself, that's a component of that activity.
I understand the process that leads to people like me catering for Vegans. Why would they want to work in a kitchen that's using animal products?
I'm not sure the organisers would be much bothered if you supplemented your fare out of their immediate vision. They accept that non-vegans eat food that they would not touch outside their event.
Organisers of other events would not be offended if participants filled their stomachs and saddlebags at garages and supermarkets and I should imagine that vegan organisers are no different.
Post by: Bianchi Boy on 30 September, 2017, 05:27:48 pm
Hmmm comparing veganism to a major religion. HmmmEven if the organisers made it clear that you - and your saddle - were welcome?
By your own admission, if such an event was put on, you would bounce the controls and not 'experience the joy of cruelty-free catering'
Were such event to be staged, I wouldn't go. As I don't have a saddle without leather on it, so wouldn't feel comfortable. I do like to observe the traditions of individuals and groups.
I might be wrong, but Lee's post suggests that would be the case.
Catering for Vegans is an obligation of hospitality. If I had observant Moslem guests, I would work with Halal ingredients. However I wouldn't attend a service in their Mosque, as my lack of belief would be an insult to the sincerity of theirs.
It's correct to point out that if I rode a Vegan-catered event, i would stop off for pasties and bacon-butties. That would be a mockery of the intentions of the caterers, so I wouldn't do it as a matter of respect, and would avoid such an event.
I see it as important to be tolerant and inclusive to all beliefs. I'm embedded in pastoral culture. a large part of my income is from field boundary work, enclosing stock. Another strand is from forestry work, and although I don't shoot deer myself, that's a component of that activity.
I understand the process that leads to people like me catering for Vegans. Why would they want to work in a kitchen that's using animal products?
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
Post by: j_a_m_e_s_ on 30 September, 2017, 05:50:24 pm
Just thought I'd mention that.
Post by: Bianchi Boy on 30 September, 2017, 07:59:04 pm
Article 9 of the European Convention does in fact cover vegan beliefs under the same umbrella as other major religions.Religion comes under the umbrella of 'belief'. Please see the link below and if this is true it's supports do not need evidence, just keep stating what they 'know' to be true.
Just thought I'd mention that.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/belief (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/belief)
Post by: j_a_m_e_s_ on 30 September, 2017, 08:23:32 pm
Article 9 of the European Convention does in fact cover vegan beliefs under the same umbrella as other major religions.Religion comes under the umbrella of 'belief'. Please see the link below and if this is true it's supports do not need evidence, just keep stating what they 'know' to be true.
Just thought I'd mention that.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/belief (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/belief)
For clarity, are you saying Christians don't need proof of Christ and Buddhists that of rebirth, or Vegans don't need proof of the pain an animal suffers when it's throat is slit, or beak cut off, or face is branded with a hot iron, or a newborn wrenched from its mother?
I'm not sure how we've come from an innocuous post about fuelling options on a bimble about the country on two wheels. Well I am, but for the sake of getting back on track,
I find that dried fruit, skittles, bourneville, falafels, tortilla wraps, potatoes, tins of beans etc. Banana soreen, fresh fruit, bourbons, jam sandwiches, marmite sandwiches, peanut butter sandwiches, various biscuits. Red coke as liquid bonk ration works really well. All readily available I think.
I made some malt loaf from equal measures of bran flakes, sugar, soya milk, flour and dried fruit before. That was nice, but sat a bit too heavy for me. Might try it again sometime soon.
Stella also works well but not in excess!
For transparency - I do try hard to observe a vegan diet and use as few animal products as I can, but am probably the largest hypocrite of all as I am a shoe repairer by trade. That is for me to wrestle with daily though.
Post by: Ben T on 01 October, 2017, 12:31:43 am
Post by: Ben T on 01 October, 2017, 12:38:10 am
For transparency - I do try hard to observe a vegan diet and use as few animal products as I can, but am probably the largest hypocrite of all as I am a shoe repairer by trade. That is for me to wrestle with daily though.
That's fine. I'm actually also a vegan, with the exception that I do eat beef, lamb, chicken, pork, duck, salmon, prawns, or cod on a daily basis, and I also drink milk, and wear leather shoes. I do wrestle with it though on a daily basis, so that's ok.
Post by: Jaded on 01 October, 2017, 02:24:35 am
You couldn't possibly have a vegan audax. It would have to have all the controls provided by the organiser , and would thus be inordinately expensive. You don't really get such a thing as a "vegan cafe" (and before someone links to some concept one in the back of beyond, by that I mean they're certainly not popular enough to find 3 at 50km intervals).We had a Vegan cafe in our town. It's shut now, it was too popular.
Post by: mattc on 01 October, 2017, 08:14:32 am
You couldn't possibly have a vegan audax. It would have to have all the controls provided by the organiser , and would thus be inordinately expensive.Ben:
I think perhaps you should turn off your internet connection after midnight!
"Controls provided by the organiser would be inordinately expensive" - what on earth are you talking about??
Post by: Rod Marton on 01 October, 2017, 11:09:12 am
We still have one, which manages to be gluten-free too.You couldn't possibly have a vegan audax. It would have to have all the controls provided by the organiser , and would thus be inordinately expensive. You don't really get such a thing as a "vegan cafe" (and before someone links to some concept one in the back of beyond, by that I mean they're certainly not popular enough to find 3 at 50km intervals).We had a Vegan cafe in our town. It's shut now, it was too popular.
I've wondered idly about the possibility of using it as a control and enable riders to experience the local alternative lifestyle. But as it's only 5km from my usual HQ it would have to be a very contrived route.
Post by: Exit Stage Left on 01 October, 2017, 11:19:04 am
Hmmm comparing veganism to a major religion. HmmmEven if the organisers made it clear that you - and your saddle - were welcome?
By your own admission, if such an event was put on, you would bounce the controls and not 'experience the joy of cruelty-free catering'
Were such event to be staged, I wouldn't go. As I don't have a saddle without leather on it, so wouldn't feel comfortable. I do like to observe the traditions of individuals and groups.
I might be wrong, but Lee's post suggests that would be the case.
Catering for Vegans is an obligation of hospitality. If I had observant Moslem guests, I would work with Halal ingredients. However I wouldn't attend a service in their Mosque, as my lack of belief would be an insult to the sincerity of theirs.
It's correct to point out that if I rode a Vegan-catered event, i would stop off for pasties and bacon-butties. That would be a mockery of the intentions of the caterers, so I wouldn't do it as a matter of respect, and would avoid such an event.
I see it as important to be tolerant and inclusive to all beliefs. I'm embedded in pastoral culture. a large part of my income is from field boundary work, enclosing stock. Another strand is from forestry work, and although I don't shoot deer myself, that's a component of that activity.
I understand the process that leads to people like me catering for Vegans. Why would they want to work in a kitchen that's using animal products?
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
I'm actually propounding the dominant moral code of Britain, which is based on a very mild form of Christianity. It emphasises fairness, tolerance and inclusivity. There are fundamentalist offshoots, but they tend to be seen as people making too much of a fuss.
One problem I have with catering for Vegans, is that I tend to think in terms of making a basic dish; Dahl, or Bombay Potato for instance, and then have cheese, bacon or sausages as an extra. That always strikes me as a short-changing vegans. But I can't think of any obvious way of giving them more value.
Post by: Tull924 on 01 October, 2017, 12:02:31 pm
One problem I have with catering for Vegans, is that I tend to think in terms of making a basic dish; Dahl, or Bombay Potato for instance, and then have cheese, bacon or sausages as an extra. That always strikes me as a short-changing vegans. But I can't think of any obvious way of giving them more value.
Trust me (speaking as a vegetarian) I am sure most vegetarians and vegans would be so happy that the meal had been prepared with the flexibility for the carnivorous types to adapt if they wanted rather than a dish with meat and or diary which couldn't be adapted the other way around, they would not feel short changed.
As an organiser I am quite sure that this would be a much easier way than creating a dish for the majority and then having to create a alternative dish for an unspecified number of riders that you will only know if you had catered enough for at the end of the event
Post by: Exit Stage Left on 01 October, 2017, 04:30:12 pm
One problem I have with catering for Vegans, is that I tend to think in terms of making a basic dish; Dahl, or Bombay Potato for instance, and then have cheese, bacon or sausages as an extra. That always strikes me as a short-changing vegans. But I can't think of any obvious way of giving them more value.
Trust me (speaking as a vegetarian) I am sure most vegetarians and vegans would be so happy that the meal had been prepared with the flexibility for the carnivorous types to adapt if they wanted rather than a dish with meat and or diary which couldn't be adapted the other way around, they would not feel short changed.
As an organiser I am quite sure that this would be a much easier way than creating a dish for the majority and then having to create a alternative dish for an unspecified number of riders that you will only know if you had catered enough for at the end of the event
i was discussing this with Heather, we both cooked on Conservation Volunteer working holidays in the early 1980s. There'd usually be a couple of vegetarians and a vegan out of 12 participants for up to a fortnight, often in a remote location. We'd have to prepare 3 meals a day, with dessert in the evening, often on two gas rings.
I recall one 'task' at Dunnet Bay, North of Thurso. I'd been told that the school we stayed in would provide a cook for us. We had two vegans turn up late, after we'd shopped, due to a rail strike. The school cook was keen on rice, as it was so convenient to cook, as it turned up in ready-to-boil bags. She thought that macaroni cheese would suit vegans. We had a trip to Thurso to buy suitable 'vegan' items, but the vegans were recent converts, and didn't like cooking anyway, so were little help. I could just about busk some lentil or bean based stuff.
I learned that vegans are not any more likely to know how to cook for themselves than anyone else. In the intervening 35 years, the ability to cook from raw ingredients has become rarer. There are people who will marvel at the peeling and frying of onions, and have no real conception of how a meal is constructed, so seeking guidance on favoured recipes is hopeless, or depends on the availability of Aubergines and Quinoa.
Post by: Philip Whiteman on 01 October, 2017, 04:56:53 pm
Post by: citoyen on 01 October, 2017, 05:49:50 pm
Anyway, this is how I would look at the problem. Other organisers have to do what suits them best. I wouldn't worry too much about the riders - all the vegan riders I've met seem to be quite pragmatic about it and are always grateful for any efforts organisers make to cater for their needs. The OP seemed to be more a case of asking for advice rather than complaining about organisers not catering adequately for them.
I've met one or two riders over the years who have complained about the food offering provided by the organiser but they weren't vegans, just fussy eaters.
Post by: Philip Whiteman on 01 October, 2017, 05:59:05 pm
Far be it from me to tell a highly experienced and successful organiser how to run their event, but you might find it less work to offer one food option that's suitable for everyone rather than providing separate vegan and gluten-free options.
Quite true but in my instance but I have helpers willing to staff GHQ. I am sure your guidance is totally appropriate to organisers without similar logistical support.
- all the vegan riders I've met seem to be quite pragmatic about it and are always grateful for any efforts organisers make to cater for their needs.
Generally true although I did suffer one 'political' vegan. He appeared to hold me personally accountable for the all the short comings of the livestock industry. This was due to my apparent bad choice of cafes selling meat based produces irrespective of their vegan options. He received short shrift.
Post by: citoyen on 01 October, 2017, 06:05:05 pm
Generally true although I did suffer one 'political' vegan. He appeared to hold me personally accountable for the all the short comings of the livestock industry. This was due to my apparent bad choice of cafes selling meat based produces irrespective of their vegan options. He received short shrift.
That's unfortunate. Vegans need to remember that organisers have feelings too.
Post by: Exit Stage Left on 01 October, 2017, 06:54:48 pm
Far be it from me to tell a highly experienced and successful organiser how to run their event, but you might find it less work to offer one food option that's suitable for everyone rather than providing separate vegan and gluten-free options. Given that meat, eggs and dairy are expensive ingredients, you might find that leaving them out stretches the limited budget that bit further too.
That's probably the best thing to do in the long run. It's a great opportunity for a gluten-intolerant vegan with catering skills, to devise menus for everyone to use, and to research the best source of ingredients.
Post by: Hot Flatus on 01 October, 2017, 07:13:13 pm
Its probably time for this:
https://youtu.be/Oht9AEq1798
Post by: Philip Whiteman on 01 October, 2017, 07:33:44 pm
Gluten-intolerant you say?
Its probably time for this:
https://youtu.be/Oht9AEq1798
;D or is that :sick:
Post by: Bianchi Boy on 01 October, 2017, 08:14:04 pm
This topic is starting to remind me of some people who once came to dinner. One couple were vegetarian and the other couple had a nut allergy and one of then did not like pulses. WTF was I going to cook. In the end I did roast beef. Gave the vegetarians the potatoes, that they said were the best ever, and I did not have the courage to tell them they were cooked in dripping.
If you are going to be picky bring your own food.
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
Post by: hellymedic on 01 October, 2017, 08:52:25 pm
Generally true although I did suffer one 'political' vegan. He appeared to hold me personally accountable for the all the short comings of the livestock industry. This was due to my apparent bad choice of cafes selling meat based produces irrespective of their vegan options. He received short shrift.
That's unfortunate.VegansRiders need to remember that organisers have feelings too.
FTFY... ;) ;D
Post by: hellymedic on 01 October, 2017, 09:01:29 pm
Gluten-intolerant you say?
Its probably time for this:
https://youtu.be/Oht9AEq1798
As I posted earlier, (I'm not sure if in this thread or another) gluten intolerance and full-blown coeliac disease are different animals.
Their requirements aren't quite the same.
A fussy, faddy eater is difficult to please but won't really suffer if given minimally contaminated food.
A true coeliac will suffer but many are really appreciative if they find things they CAN eat.
Post by: Ben T on 02 October, 2017, 03:41:38 pm
You couldn't possibly have a vegan audax. It would have to have all the controls provided by the organiser , and would thus be inordinately expensive.Ben:
I think perhaps you should turn off your internet connection after midnight!
"Controls provided by the organiser would be inordinately expensive" - what on earth are you talking about??
On most audaxes most of the controls are commercial. But most cafes aren't vegan, therefore if you wanted all the controls to be vegan, the org would have to provide them all themself, which would be inordinately expensive. It wouldn't be more expensive per control.
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 02 October, 2017, 04:15:16 pm
Post by: jiberjaber on 02 October, 2017, 05:17:02 pm
You couldn't possibly have a vegan audax. It would have to have all the controls provided by the organiser , and would thus be inordinately expensive.Ben:
I think perhaps you should turn off your internet connection after midnight!
"Controls provided by the organiser would be inordinately expensive" - what on earth are you talking about??
On most audaxes most of the controls are commercial. But most cafes aren't vegan, therefore if you wanted all the controls to be vegan, the org would have to provide them all themself, which would be inordinately expensive. It wouldn't be more expensive per control.
Are vegans unable to use an ATM machine? ???
Post by: Greenbank on 02 October, 2017, 05:19:36 pm
On most audaxes most of the controls are commercial. But most cafes aren't vegan, therefore if you wanted all the controls to be vegan, the org would have to provide them all themself, which would be inordinately expensive. It wouldn't be more expensive per control.
Not sure about that (it being inordinately expensive). There's one 200 in the calendar that provides all food within its £16 entry fee. Compared to a £6 Audax with no food provided and riders reliant on commercial controls I'd suspect that most would end up spending more than £10 on the way round. (Of course some will spend less having come prepared, etc).
As with most things, it relies upon the volunteer aspect. If people (particularly organisers) charged for their time then there is no way events would/could be so cheap.
Post by: whosatthewheel on 02 October, 2017, 05:36:42 pm
Post by: Ben T on 02 October, 2017, 06:01:27 pm
The problem here is NOT vegan versus not vegan. As Vorsprung points out in the original post, when it comes to long events X-rated, it is difficult to find edible food in the night and even more difficult if you are vegan. The solution is not to enter these events. I am not a big fan of garages and 24 H McDonalds, so when it comes to over 300, I carefully pick events where the controls are located so that it is possible to buy food that contains fewer than 10 ingredients. I have to say there is still plenty of choice and more rides than I can afford to do... so it's not a real issue.
The solution is not to be vegan.
Post by: rogerzilla on 02 October, 2017, 06:08:20 pm
*it's amazing what yeast extract can be made to taste like
Post by: hellymedic on 02 October, 2017, 06:23:52 pm
They might have long ingredient lists but I think I'd supply my own food if I were that picky!
Garage food, by its nature has a long shelf life and this is gained by processing, additives and packaging.
Fresh apples and bananas don't last long!
Post by: mattc on 02 October, 2017, 07:07:42 pm
Quote
The problem here is NOT vegan versus not vegan.
Glad you cleared that up for us!
;)
Post by: lahoski on 02 October, 2017, 07:56:40 pm
The solution is not to be vegan.::-)
What a stupid, unhelpful and - most importantly - unexcellent thing to say.
Post by: markcjagar on 05 October, 2017, 09:24:19 pm
You couldn't possibly have a vegan audax. It would have to have all the controls provided by the organiser , and would thus be inordinately expensive. You don't really get such a thing as a "vegan cafe" (and before someone links to some concept one in the back of beyond, by that I mean they're certainly not popular enough to find 3 at 50km intervals).
There are at least 2 vegan if not 3 vegan cafes in Sheffield so hardly "in the back of beyond"...
You could easily do a vegetarian 200km, Sheffield - Halifax - York - Sheffield, with 1 info control and all vegetarian cafe's have plenty of vegan food
Post by: Carlosfandango on 06 October, 2017, 01:56:48 pm
The best meal I had on an Audax was from the vegi cafe in Llanidloes. Such a relief from all the vegi breakfasts from the usual greasy spoons.
Post by: Philip Whiteman on 06 October, 2017, 02:42:53 pm
Vegan food isn`t any more expensive than any other. It makes me laugh reading the views of meat eaters on here who obviously have no idea about a vegetarian or vegan diet but are confident in advising Vegans about their diet!
The best meal I had on an Audax was from the vegi cafe in Llanidloes. Such a relief from all the vegi breakfasts from the usual greasy spoons.
I am a meat eater but I would certainly not wish to contest your view on cost. This year I am providing a beef based chilli con carne in addition to a veggie version. The cost of mince was £40 whereas the cost for the dried soya based equivalent came out at £5. Having to worry about food handling is also a fag, so next year it will be lentil soup!
As for the Llanidloes Cafe, it is certainly excellent. There is another in Machynlleth too.
Post by: whosatthewheel on 06 October, 2017, 05:11:22 pm
Vegan food isn`t any more expensive than any other. It makes me laugh reading the views of meat eaters on here who obviously have no idea about a vegetarian or vegan diet but are confident in advising Vegans about their diet!
The best meal I had on an Audax was from the vegi cafe in Llanidloes. Such a relief from all the vegi breakfasts from the usual greasy spoons.
I am a meat eater but I would certainly not wish to contest your view on cost. This year I am providing a beef based chilli con carne in addition to a veggie version. The cost of mince was £40 whereas the cost for the dried soya based equivalent came out at £5. Having to worry about food handling is also a fag, so next year it will be lentil soup!
As for the Llanidloes Cafe, it is certainly excellent. There is another in Machynlleth too.
Is the chilli for tomorrow? ;D
Post by: LEE on 06 October, 2017, 05:28:32 pm
Audaxing I mean.