Author Topic: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter  (Read 21866 times)

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #225 on: April 11, 2017, 02:00:28 pm »
Ahhh, that's a good point, I just left the data lines open.   Am I right in thinking that shorting them may trick the garmin into thinking it's being charged rather than being connected to a computer?  I'll check the igaro socket when I get home. 
Eddington: 101 Miles,  131km

jiberjaber

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Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #226 on: April 11, 2017, 02:05:14 pm »
Ok, I had a bit of time on my hands recently and was wanting to tidy up the wiring on my D1.  My Garmin 1000 is only a couple of cms away from the Igaro so the wire to the female USB socket and the shortest of micro USB leads is an order of magnitude too long.  In an attempt to tidy this up I chopped off the USB socket approximately half way between socket and capacitor, I then made a new micro USB lead by soldering the internals of a spare micro USB plug to the wires from the Igaro and used some Sugru to make a new casing/insulation for the plug.
So far so good, looks loads neater and the wire is still long enough to reach to anything I'm likely to charge.

While it works fine when up to speed, the problem I've now got is that intermediate speed performance with my Garmin 1000 is problematic; charge is not stable either on or off, it now fluctuates quickly  on/off/on/off.   What have I done? have I unwittingly reduced the capacitance of the system slightly?   I've still got the stock capacitor in the loop, I didn't touch that, but did the socket and extra cable add any extra capacitance that I've now removed??

What have you done with the data lines on the micro-USB plug?  Is it the same as what the Igaro's USB socket does with the data lines?  This is how dumb chargers are identified, and I expect it may affect the Garmin's behaviour.

I think you are seeing the same behaviour Andrew and myself pointed to a week ago, I haven't chopped or rewired my USB, but I seem to recall before the recent V4 garmin updates, the Edge 1000 would just beep once and say, external power lost. and then at an appropriate time & speed would beep again and say, external power back on.  Behaviour now appears to be beep beep beep beep.... as it flicks between power there, power not there. 

So for me, this is either someway has changed on the Garmin about how they deal with the power being present or, something has failed on the D1 (capacitor?)

I'm erring on the Garmin induced version as it seemed to work OK before, and I noticed Andrew's Garmin doing the chirpy chirpy song when we slowed down on The Shark's hills so.  With the Luxus U, this is managed by there being a small battery in the lamp which fills in for a short period of time the power dropping from speed reduction.   Present work around suggested is to use a power bank, preferably one with pass-through charging.

igarocom have stated they are looking at a potential solution using large capacitors to provide a reservoir like option to fill in the gaps...

Regards,

Jason

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #227 on: April 11, 2017, 02:13:23 pm »
Also, that is a very good point.  I'd been off the bike for a few weeks and during that time 2 things have changed,  1) me chopping the USB socket off and 2) updated garmin firmware. 
I'd assumed that is was 1 that caused the issue but sounds like it may well be 2 if others are getting this without hacking their igaro. 
If so, that's a relief at least as far as my molishing skills are concerned.
Eddington: 101 Miles,  131km

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #228 on: April 11, 2017, 02:53:17 pm »


Present work around suggested is to use a power bank, preferably one with pass-through charging.

Cheers for all your info. 
 I have got a zendure a2, so looks like this is gonna be pressed into service. 

Ta



Eddington: 101 Miles,  131km

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #229 on: April 11, 2017, 06:45:51 pm »
Ahhh, that's a good point, I just left the data lines open.   Am I right in thinking that shorting them may trick the garmin into thinking it's being charged rather than being connected to a computer?  I'll check the igaro socket when I get home.

They are shorted at the USB end of the D1. If the cable going from that to your unit has the data cut it would undo it.

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #230 on: April 11, 2017, 07:01:42 pm »
It sounds like Garmin are changing the firmware to poll more frequently, which is a problem at lesser speed as the dynamo AC frequency is so low. This condition was the reason for introduction of the stability bank accessory as a few phones and power banks do the same. Likely adding it will help at very low speed (other users have confirmed it makes no difference when speed increases).

The capacitor fitted to d101-103 models is overrated and the highest quality available (Nichilon Japanese, 10X working life), but it's capacity is limited and is in some cases not enough to smooth the low transients. Unfortunately size has a trade off.

Super capacitor accessory for the output side is under way, but 375mA (typical Garmin current) over a few minutes is a tall order even for the capacity we're thinking off (super capacitors are current limited which may put an end to the idea). Hopefully if 30 seconds is achievable that will be enough.

A few have asked by PM to help out, it may work better if we pay the postage to borrow a unit and return it with an accessory once we've worked out the appropriate size of the super capacitors required.

I'll stick an update on here once they arrive.

Edit: the math says 90 seconds of run time for a Garmin 810 for the super capacitor capacity we've ordered (that's at zero velocity).

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #231 on: April 19, 2017, 12:06:32 pm »
Latest update:  I’ve re wired my micro USB plug to short the data pins and it doesn’t seem to have made any difference – my Garmin 1000 still plays the fluctuating charge ‘chirpy song’ unless I’m either stationary or riding fast.
I’ve tried to cure this by putting a buffer battery with pass through between the Igaro and the Garmin.  The battery I’ve used is the Zendure A1.  Still no good though, the Garmin still chirps until I get to speeds of 30kph+  .  The only difference now is that I get charge from the buffer while stationary.   
The igaro/Zendure buffer combo charges other stuff fine at all speeds e.g. phone (sony xperia Z3 compact) and my spare front light (cateye volt 300), it’s just the Garmin it struggles with.  What’s going on???  surely the buffer would smooth the charge delivered to the Garmin?

Eddington: 101 Miles,  131km

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #232 on: April 19, 2017, 01:05:57 pm »
Edit: the math says 90 seconds of run time for a Garmin 810 for the super capacitor capacity we've ordered (that's at zero velocity).

If my understanding is correct, the super capacitor would kick in when the speed drops below the charging speed (which for me is circa 9.5kph), keeping the charging going for at least 90 seconds, but probably longer as there may still be some charging from the dynamo at the lower speed. By my quick calculations that would provide silence for 150 - 250 metres of climbing, which is probably good enough. Most longer climbs that I am likely to be doing would not be steep enough to reduce my speed to below the charging point, and I could survive the occasional climb with the bleeping ... it's just annoying when it occurs with every climb on a hilly ride.

Still no good though, the Garmin still chirps until I get to speeds of 30kph+  . 

I'm using a Garmin 820, which starts charging again as soon as I get back up to 9.5kph. Could it be the buffer battery that you are using that means that the battery takes the charge at the lower speeds, and only passes the charge through to the Garmin at the much higher speed, at least until the battery is charged again?

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #233 on: April 19, 2017, 05:36:11 pm »
Latest update:  I’ve re wired my micro USB plug to short the data pins and it doesn’t seem to have made any difference – my Garmin 1000 still plays the fluctuating charge ‘chirpy song’ unless I’m either stationary or riding fast.
I’ve tried to cure this by putting a buffer battery with pass through between the Igaro and the Garmin.  The battery I’ve used is the Zendure A1.  Still no good though, the Garmin still chirps until I get to speeds of 30kph+  .  The only difference now is that I get charge from the buffer while stationary.   
The igaro/Zendure buffer combo charges other stuff fine at all speeds e.g. phone (sony xperia Z3 compact) and my spare front light (cateye volt 300), it’s just the Garmin it struggles with.  What’s going on???  surely the buffer would smooth the charge delivered to the Garmin?

The Z3 is one of the most difficult of devices to charge (needs the d1acc01 stability bank, or power bank). With either of those your Garmin should be fine, I wonder if the port on the Garmin is damaged?

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #234 on: April 19, 2017, 08:56:08 pm »
The garmin port seems OK in every other way.   It's very happy just running off the zendure battery. 
Eddington: 101 Miles,  131km

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #235 on: April 19, 2017, 11:00:07 pm »
Strange indeed. Probably best to eliminate the D1 at this point by sending it in for testing (and replacement if necessary). I can't explain why the other devices are charging though. Do they actually charge in terms of a % indicator or just a power LED which could be giving a false indcation? Clutching at straws but perhaps the D1 regulator is only giving residual current. It would be the first time it's occurred if so, but with electronics anything is possible!

If it performs to spec this end we can add an accessory port and try with a d1acc01 stability bank and see if that helps? I'll PM you.

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #236 on: April 23, 2017, 07:31:06 pm »
Odd experience with the IQ-X on the audax yesterday but I'm posting it in this thread because I suspect it might be Igaro related...

It was the first proper night riding I've done since fitting both the Igaro and the Secula rear light.

On the outward leg, the IQ-X behaved normally. Bright as you like. Secula also impressively bright.

On the way home, the IQ-X seemed a lot less bright. Secula was still very bright. I would say the IQ-X's brightness level was similar to my ride last week when I had forgotten to disconnect my phone from the Igaro. On that occasion it returned to normal brightness when I disconnected the phone. (That was before I'd fitted the Secula.)

On this occasion, there was no phone connected, although I'd left the phone charging cable plugged into the Igaro from earlier. Thinking that maybe having the cable attached was still causing the Igaro to draw power, even with the phone disconnected, I removed the cable. No difference.

Eventually, I tried disconnecting the Secula as well. It made a little difference but not much.

Is it possible the Igaro was for some reason still stealing power from the light even with nothing connected? And if so, is there any way to stop it?

Or could it be the Secula's fault somehow?

I'd also been using the Igaro to top up the Edge 510 (wouldn't normally charge on the move but in this occasion I'd left the Anker at home) and found it kept going into auto shutdown mode - as in every 30 seconds, regardless of speed. But then it would revert to normal operation just a few seconds later. Most odd. But given Peejay's experience with his 820, I suspect this is a Garmin issue rather than an Igaro one. It still charged up, but maybe not as quickly as I'd have expected.

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #237 on: April 24, 2017, 11:01:27 pm »
Hi Citoyen,

Another user was having similar problems a few pages back, I recommended he lightly oil the inside of the USB plug (WD40/GT85) and haven't heard anything since. I'd do this first as it's the #1 culprit.

For your other question, the D1 consumes almost zero power when no USB device is attached. It will consume power if the over-voltage kicks in but that's not going to happen with a light on. The only situation would be if it's developed a fault, but as of yet there's been no D1 suffering electrical degradation. Peejay's may be the first, if it is the case. Others have failed where the wires have been ripped out by installing too tightly. As always, you're more than welcome to send it in for an inspection.

Regards, Andrew

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #238 on: April 25, 2017, 08:16:53 am »
Hi Citoyen,

Another user was having similar problems a few pages back, I recommended he lightly oil the inside of the USB plug (WD40/GT85) and haven't heard anything since. I'd do this first as it's the #1 culprit.

Ah! Thanks, I'll try that.

Is this a moisture thing? Makes sense if it is, as we did have a spell of rain during the ride - I keep the usb socket tucked inside a top tube bag but I guess some moisture could still get in.

I'll try to get out on the bike this evening to test it again.

Quote
For your other question, the D1 consumes almost zero power when no USB device is attached.

Is it possible that certain types of USB cable plugged into the Igaro could cause it to draw power, even with no device on the other end?

I'm reverting to using a power pack for this weekend's ride, rather than charging devices directly, so that should avoid any Garmin problems.

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #239 on: April 25, 2017, 10:49:28 pm »
Regrettably the super capacitor idea hasn't worked, at least not with the Chinese super capacitors which are of poor quality. The named manufacturer brands are very expensive for the charge capacity required which would make them non cost effective. It's back to a powerbank with passthrough for now.

Although Garmin have been told many a time about the troublesome power alert "feature" they've yet to listen. It may be worth starting an internet based "sign if you agree" campaign to put it on their radar.

Re: citoyen, USB

It's explained here (USB section) https://www.igaro.com/d1/installation

The USB pins quickly corrode when they get wet (regardless of gold plating which we also use).

No open ended USB plug will make the Igaro drain power.


Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #240 on: April 30, 2017, 08:02:51 am »
Can anyone recommend JUST a power converter? I assume for £80-£90, this has some sort of cache battery. I already have a brilliant battery (Powermonkey Explorer 2) In other words I don't want to pay for another battery or cache device. Just the wiring and the converter.

I would piggyback a cable off my Schmidt Dynamo hub/headlight wire up to the converter which I would then plug in various USB charged items like my iPhone, GPS and battery pack. Is there something from Igaro like this perhaps?

https://www.tigrasport.com/bike/139-bikecharge-power-converter-4895161702247.html

Thanks for your help.

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #241 on: April 30, 2017, 12:08:59 pm »
PeeJay's D1 was returned and confirmed to be working fine. We've fitted a stability bank and it's on the way back to him. It looks like Garmin has indeed updated their firmware and the stability bank will be necessary post firmware upgrade. Once confirmed we'll write to model d101/2/3 owners to let them know.

HeltorChasca -> no cache battery in the D1. Check the website, it's been updated recently and has more info on it.

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #242 on: April 30, 2017, 02:06:05 pm »
HeltorChasca -> no cache battery in the D1. Check the website, it's been updated recently and has more info on it.

Thank you. I'll take a look. I use a Garmin and have had all the above 'powering off' messages experienced upthread using B&M's USB/headlight system. I'm now running a Schmidt hub and Edulux 2 so I may hang tight until Igaro has an option that solves the slow speed/no power issue.

It's really great to see a product representative using the experience of the 'real end users' to develop the tech. It's bound to turn out for the best.

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #243 on: April 30, 2017, 02:40:46 pm »
Odd experience with the IQ-X on the audax yesterday but I'm posting it in this thread because I suspect it might be Igaro related...

Update, in case anyone's interested: I think the problem may in fact be in the hub. But will need to do some testing to confirm...

Hope I can resolve it soon. Descending Streatley Hill at 3am with a barely working front light is slightly terrifying.

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #244 on: April 30, 2017, 10:40:29 pm »
I'd suspect the light rather than the hub.
A hub just has wires and magnets, and if a wire breaks you'd get no light rather than dim light.
A light on the other hand has a variety of electronic components, which can lead to interesting failure modes. I had one that failed (at 70 kph), with the result that if you went faster than about 15 kph, it went out, and then wouldn't come back on (at about 1/4 brightness) until after you'd come to a complete stop.

Kim

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Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #245 on: April 30, 2017, 11:16:39 pm »
Could still be wiring, thobut.
Watching the TV without subtitles is like riding up a hill without using the gears :)

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #246 on: April 30, 2017, 11:48:22 pm »
I'd suspect the light rather than the hub.

I was thinking about how as well as the low front light, the Garmin was going into shutdown mode when connected to the hub via the Igaro even at high speed, which leads me to suspect the hub isn't putting out as much power as it should. (I'm not using both at the same time.)

First step will be to  get a multimeter to test the hub's output.

Then try all different configurations of the lighting/power setup.

Whatever the cause, it's something that changed about the setup between the start and finish of the Oasts & Coasts 300 last weekend.

In any case, to get back on topic, it seems unlikely it's the Igaro's fault.

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #247 on: May 01, 2017, 11:15:13 am »
HeltorChasca -> no cache battery in the D1. Check the website, it's been updated recently and has more info on it.

Thank you. I'll take a look. I use a Garmin and have had all the above 'powering off' messages experienced upthread using B&M's USB/headlight system. I'm now running a Schmidt hub and Edulux 2 so I may hang tight until Igaro has an option that solves the slow speed/no power issue.

It's really great to see a product representative using the experience of the 'real end users' to develop the tech. It's bound to turn out for the best.

Most users here are using the d101/2, the d103 came with an accessory port for a stability bank (optional) and d104 onwards includes it (mandatory). With the stability bank there is no on/off cycling at low speed (this may not apply with a light on since it will take much of the power away from the D1). If the speed is too low power will be lost. A powerbank with passthrough will resolve this.

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #248 on: May 01, 2017, 03:50:24 pm »
After an initial local test last week, I finally used my D1 in anger on LWL at the weekend, mainly to charge a powerbank in order to top up my Garmin 500 (you can't use these old models to record rides whilst cycling) at the controls. A dodgy connection between my lead and the powerbank let me down. The D1 worked brilliantly off my SP dynamo.
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Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #249 on: May 11, 2017, 06:16:41 pm »
Really liking my igaro.  Go out for a ride with front light automatically lit and the Garmin has more charge when I get home than when I started.

I did have a limefuel pass through pack which stopped charging.  I am about to try a new Ravpower pack and hope to do a night ride this weekend.