[LEL17] Wheelset Upgrade for LEL

[rakagr01]

I feel wheelsets are most important components for a endurance ride of this magnitude, Broken spokes can ruin your dream at the same time sluggish wheelsets can make ur ride painfully slow in final 300-400km,  The OEM wheelsets are baisc stuff even on high end bikes.  A faster , stronger and wheelet always help, am looking forward to upgrading wheelsets (faster, stronger and reliable, alloy only), presently using basic Shimano RS 11, Please advice.

[Alex B]

I'm not convinced wheel weight makes that much difference. Sturdiness, yes - you'll want something able to withstand the pummeling from UK roads. Broken spokes happen - it's wise to carry spare ones and/or a Fibrefix. Even if you don't know how to use them you might find somebody that does. Most of the spoke breakages I've witnessed have been in wheels built by less-than-masterful wheel-builders. It might be said the most important "component" of a good wheel set is an expert wheel builder.

Lots of nice components to chose from: I'm having new wheels with H Plus Son rims ("The Hydra"), a SON Delux dynohub at the front, and a DT Swiss 240s at the rear. I'm risking the ire of the Audax Gods by having only 28 spokes on each wheel.

[slow]

I think I will use my factory-robot build "same shit as RS11 but more expensive to buy" DA C24 rear wheel.

Thanks to bag drops, baggage needed is quite light.

Dynamo 32 spokes or DA at front, don´t know yet.

Am I too optimistic using normal road wheels?

[jsabine]

Am I too optimistic using normal road wheels?

You're riding on perfectly normal roads, albeit some of them won't have the greatest of surfaces.

If you'd be happy riding a 200 on your wheels, then doing the same every weekend for the next seven weeks, why would it make a difference that you're not going to have a week's break between each one?

I rode last time with a Campag Vento rear (27 spoke, I think) and it was just fine; probably 32 spoke Record/Open Pro this year.

I'd aim for at least 25 or 28mm tyres though, just for a little more cushioning over the distance.

[Somnolent]

The extra weight of a few more spokes won't make as much difference as the gains that can be made by having a wheel that is laterally stiff.
That means enough spokes for your weight (and your luggage) and at the right tension for whatever rim you choose.

Personally I'm an advocate for hand-built over a factory wheels and being of 'larger frame' I go for F32/R36
and whilst I certainly don't claim to be a 'masterful wheel-builder' I do take a lot of care over spoke tensions and have never yet broken a spoke.
(Although that may be due to the fact that I carry a Fibrefix)

[Hot Flatus]

I feel wheelsets are most important components for a endurance ride of this magnitude, Broken spokes can ruin your dream at the same time sluggish wheelsets can make ur ride painfully slow in final 300-400km,  The OEM wheelsets are baisc stuff even on high end bikes.  A faster , stronger and wheelet always help, am looking forward to upgrading wheelsets (faster, stronger and reliable, alloy only), presently using basic Shimano RS 11, Please advice.

Weight makes a difference despite what others may tell you. Everytime you change speed in an upwards direction you'll notice it.  With regards to buying new wheels, it all depends on what you want them to do (go really fast/be bomb proof/ be easily serviceable/ have easily available replacement parts). Generally speaking some of the racing orientated top-end factory wheelsets with huge proprietory spokes will be stiff as anything and great fun. They can also be amazingly strong. However, they can have a limited lifespan due to manufacturers only supporting them with spares for a number of years.  Compare that with conventional rims and spokes that will be around for years and can be bought and delivered in 24 hours.

It also depends on your budget. Are you loaded? Do you want to buy a £600 factory wheelset and tear arse to Edimburgh? Or do you want a handbuilt set for £300 that are 300g heavier, but have rims that can be replaced easily and a hub that will last and last?

It also depends on you. Are you graced with extra lard which will put extra stress on your equipment? Do you ride with souplesse on rough road surfaces or do you hit the potholes like a sack of spuds? Will you be carrying the bare minimum, or will you do a mattc and carry a whole workshop in your saddlebag because your bike is so poorly maintained that you are likely to need it?

All things to think about. Unless you are light, fit, loaded and on a racing machine then handbuilts are probably the way to go. There are loads of good builders around. You wont go wrong with Hewitt, DCR wheels etc.  Id be tempted to give David at DCR a ring and tell him what you need them for and get a range of options.

[wilkyboy]

I'll be on my usual 28/32-hole, with an SP-PV8 dynohub on the front and BLB hub on the rear built into Open Pros with DT Swiss spokes and nipples.  For reference I weigh about 72kg, I build my own wheels, and I always carry a spoke key and a Fiberfix.

The record I think is 13 broken spokes on one wheel on one ride, if memory serves?  For me, I've ridden with four broken with no problems (but those weren't normal wheels and that was only on a 200).

[Exit Stage Left]

I take the view that Paris-Roubaix is the best guide to wheel and tyre choice if money is no object. The best way to access information is to do an image search on Paris Roubaix wheels and tyres. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Paris+Roubaix+wheels+and+tyres&biw=1264&bih=829&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiMwZKA7pHSAhWEF8AKHTeWDWEQ_AUIBygC

The predominant current approach is 30mm tubulars on the usual racing wheels. I'd personally go for a high spoke-count, shallow section rim, and the biggest tyres I can fit in the frame, inflated to 65 front 85 rear. I'd also go for a frame with 'give'.

The ideal is a pro Paris Roubaix setup. The gap between that and your current setup is money. Where you end up is down to how much you want to spend.

[Hot Flatus]

Does your budget stretch to having a team car following you with spare wheels, food and clothing?

If so, then ESL's advice is sagacious.

[Exit Stage Left]

Some people do have that budget. There are accounts of LELs ridden like that. I always had my partner at the Alston/Brampton control, so there was a spare bike. When it started from Thorne I had spares there as well. I even got support from the organisation when I broke a bottom bracket.

Paris Roubaix is instructive because it's won by strong heavy riders, mechanicals can cost you the race, and support cars can't be close to you in the cobbled sections.

[LMT]

I take the view that Paris-Roubaix is the best guide to wheel and tyre choice if money is no object. The best way to access information is to do an image search on Paris Roubaix wheels and tyres. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Paris+Roubaix+wheels+and+tyres&biw=1264&bih=829&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiMwZKA7pHSAhWEF8AKHTeWDWEQ_AUIBygC

The predominant current approach is 30mm tubulars on the usual racing wheels. I'd personally go for a high spoke-count, shallow section rim, and the biggest tyres I can fit in the frame, inflated to 65 front 85 rear. I'd also go for a frame with 'give'.

The ideal is a pro Paris Roubaix setup. The gap between that and your current setup is money. Where you end up is down to how much you want to spend.

A 30mm tub on a 'usual racing wheel' inflated to 65psi? Would this approach be practical for LEL? 

OP, to cover all bases I'd look to buy something hand built with a decent hub and a high spoke count. Ideally not to heavy, there are plenty of options out there, my advice is to speak to some wheel builders about what your requirements are.

[Exit Stage Left]

The current trend is towards 'gravel bikes'. Disc-braked cycle cross frames with clearance for up to 40mm tyres. Peter Simon got clearance for 38mm tyres by using a 1980s frame built for 27x 1 1/4 inch wheels and tyres, fitting 700c wheels with lots of spokes and low profile rims, and deep drop callipers. I filmed him and his bike on the Mille Pennines.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBIU38fbiyA

I followed his example and did the same, the tyres and brakes were heavily discounted, and I had some spare 700c wheels. I found that there's not enough clearance for the 38mm tyres at the back, so I've now got 700c 38mm on the front and 27x1 1/4 inch on the back. I might get some 35mm 700c tyres. You can get 27x 1 1/4 Gatorskins, which equate to 32mm. The problem with 27 inch wheels is that good rims are quite rare, and you need to carry a folding tyre, as spares are harder to find.

[DrMekon]

I've 600s ridden with 36 spoke mtb wheels and with 18 spoke factory wheels. I've not broken a spoke yet, but I have bent a rim so bad it wouldn't turn in the fork - that was the 18h rim, and it still trued up well enough to finish.

I'll be riding on low spoke count, wide 45mm deep carbon wheels and 30mm plus tyres. Maybe I wont make it, but the risk of the bike feeling like a sack of shit with heavy wheels is too great for me to risk that!

[Alex B]

I'll be riding on low spoke count, wide 45mm deep carbon wheels and 30mm plus tyres. Maybe I wont make it, but the risk of the bike feeling like a sack of shit with heavy wheels is too great for me to risk that!

Aren't carbon rims so stiff you can easily get away with a lower spoke count? Isn't the same also true of many alloy rims these days? Isn't the "36 spoke" mantra from an age when rims were generally less stiff?

[Exit Stage Left]

I'm a great believer in finding out what the fastest riders used. The fastest LEL is well documented, and the equipment list is here. https://oranj.wordpress.com/2005/07/28/lel-2005-equipment-list/

The account of the ride is here. https://oranj.wordpress.com/2005/07/28/london-edinburgh-london-2005/

An interesting point is that he encountered the Thorne starters when riding South. Both post 2005 LELs have only started from London, so that morale boost can't be replicated. I'd rate that encountering of other riders as being of more benefit than the wheel set.

By PBP 2015 he was on a carbon bike with factory wheels. But choosing a dynohub for the ride. https://oranj.wordpress.com/2015/08/16/paris-brest-paris-2015-505510/

[chrisbainbridge]

I think that brakes make a significant difference to the equation.  For rim brakes then I think that alloy is better as it gives safer braking in the hands of a tired rider with decreased reaction time.  If you have disc brakes then I cannot see the advantage of alloy over carbon.

[The French Tandem]

I have already said that on another thread, but once again, the most important aspect in my view is to choose wheels made from standard components: standard rims, standard spokes and standard hub.

If you choose to ride on exotic wheels made of proprietary components, and you show up at a control with a broken spoke, chances are that the mechanics there will say: "Sorry mate, I can't do anything for you".

[Veloman]

I feel wheelsets are most important components for a endurance ride of this magnitude, Broken spokes can ruin your dream at the same time sluggish wheelsets can make ur ride painfully slow in final 300-400km,  The OEM wheelsets are baisc stuff even on high end bikes.  A faster , stronger and wheelet always help, am looking forward to upgrading wheelsets (faster, stronger and reliable, alloy only), presently using basic Shimano RS 11, Please advice.

So how deep are your pockets?

Myself and Rabbit of this parish had wheels made by Mike Conway based on Chris King hub (rear) and SON dynamo hub with Pacenti 23mm rims and Lazer spokes.  Very good and reliable.  But as the components suggest, not the cheapest on the market.

Others of this parish have done rides based on much cheaper wheels with no problems.

If you decide to upgrade. I think you should have a price tag in mind, otherwise you are in the "how long is a piece of string" debate.

Get on the phone to Mike Conway at 23mmWheels.

http://blog.23mm.co.uk/

[chrisbainbridge]

+1 for Mike Conway.

I have a set of carbon rims with DT Swiss 240 hubs.

I have a deep section carbon with DT 240 for the TT bike

I have a son Dynamo hub with a carbon rim

All have CX-ray spokes.

fairly bling for me but apart from the rim all fairly standard

All are superb and I would highly recommend Mike as a builder.

[Ian H]

I rode Paris-Brest-Paris on 28-32 with a SON front hub and Campag rear.  Openpro rims.  Always build my own; haven't broken any spokes for years.

[P Walsh]

It may sound boring, but I would just talk to a respected, reliable wheel builder such as Paul Hewitt and discuss priorities. It all depends on your weight, how much risk you are willing to take with spokes, and what tyres you fancy using. I'm conservative so would favour 36 spokes rear and 32 front, but I might be talked into having some fancy spokes in the mix. I suspect that a larger number of light spokes makes a better wheel than a smaller number of heavy spokes. I don't honestly think it is worth trying to save a lot of weight in the wheel area.

Budget £400 perhaps.

[sojournermike]

I would have no qualms about setting off on my Kinesis GF Ti v2 with my own wheels:

Front 24 spoke radial, SP SV-9 dynamo hub laced to Kinlin 31T rim with Sapim Lsers
Rear 28 spoke 2x Hope Mono RS hub laced to Kinlin 31T assymetric rim with Lasers NDS and Race DS

There again, I wouldn't worry about the 20:24 50mm carbon rimmed wheels on the Aithein either

It's only a (long) bike ride (which I will stay at home for)

[zigzag]

I'll be riding on low spoke count, wide 45mm deep carbon wheels and 30mm plus tyres. Maybe I wont make it, but the risk of the bike feeling like a sack of shit with heavy wheels is too great for me to risk that!

Aren't carbon rims so stiff you can easily get away with a lower spoke count? Isn't the same also true of many alloy rims these days? Isn't the "36 spoke" mantra from an age when rims were generally less stiff?

carbon rims are springy and comfortable, i certainly notice that when swap the alloy wheels for carbon. they are stiff laterally if built with sufficient number of spokes. check this video at 5min: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoABOk_8KH8

[Planet X Paul]

I recently received my custom wheel build from 23mm Wheels, which is my first foray into dynamo hubs.  Yet to try them out as my new bike is currently being built.  Mine are the first ones in the gallery , here....

http://blog.23mm.co.uk/

[igauk]

I'm only contemplating a wheel upgrade if my micrometre (when I find it) suggests my rims are getting wafer thin, which after 10 years I suspect they might be. If all is well it's 32 spoke F&R Open Pros on a Shimano Dyno hub and 105 rear. If I need to spend some money I'd be tempted by H Son Plus Archetypes.