Author Topic: Creaking bottom bracket I think.  (Read 1958 times)

Creaking bottom bracket I think.
« on: 26 April, 2017, 08:23:01 pm »
My bike has started creaking badly. A month ago it started creaking towards the end of my 7 mile commute. It started and stopped in a short period of time.

This past week it developed into almost always creaking. That worries me.

The creak appears to be from the bottom bracket. The pedals are firmly fitted the crankset too. I can't see.anything obviously wrong. The creak sounds like a series of clicks/knocks as the pedals go round. I'm worried something is wrong in the BB. In my mind it sounds like a rotor turning in a cylinder that's throwing a ball bearing against the inside of the cylinder. If you follow my description.

Bearings in the BB perhaps? What do you think it is? Easy fix for someone without the interest in bike maintenance for fun. It's a chore necessary to do at times but I have no interest in doing it for fun only to save money where I can if easy enough.

Any ideas?

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Creaking bottom bracket I think.
« Reply #1 on: 26 April, 2017, 08:30:47 pm »
Cartridge bottom bracket?

Re: Creaking bottom bracket I think.
« Reply #2 on: 26 April, 2017, 08:42:39 pm »
Now you're asking something I don't really know about. I think the answer is yes. It has what looks like external screw on knurled rings at each end if that makes sense. I can't find the details now but I understand it's the Tiagra 4600 bottom bracket.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Creaking bottom bracket I think.
« Reply #3 on: 26 April, 2017, 09:09:28 pm »
Shimano external BBs tend to work and then die rapidly. Replace it (they're cheap) and see if that solves the problem. Follow the instructions regarding lubricating threads, etc. which will tend to resolve a number of other possibilities for noises. If it wasn't the BB itself failing, you have spare bearings for when the replacement BB dies.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Creaking bottom bracket I think.
« Reply #4 on: 26 April, 2017, 09:16:11 pm »
If I can't get round to sorting it for a few weeks will using it cause any damage? Is it likely to be an urgent repair job if it's the BB or do I have leeway m

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Creaking bottom bracket I think.
« Reply #5 on: 26 April, 2017, 09:19:46 pm »
You've already left it for several weeks. How long do you want to push it?

Probably no permanent damage will be caused, provided it is the BB failing. It will just get floppier and noisier over time, perhaps a short time. If not that, who knows what is actually happening (without looking closely) or what might happen.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
  • Just a tart for retro kit . . .
    • John's Bikes
Re: Creaking bottom bracket I think.
« Reply #6 on: 26 April, 2017, 09:30:52 pm »
Is this the London Road? I thought you'd only just had that sorted out...

Undo the quicklink and remove the chain. Rotate the cranks using light finger pressure. The bearing should turn smoothly with no noticeable vibration. Notchiness or rumbling indicates dead bearings.

You actually do need to sort this quickly (assuming the BB is the culprit) as prolonged use with loose bearings will cause scoring of the axle. Once the axle is scored you can measure the life of a replacement BB in days.
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

Re: Creaking bottom bracket I think.
« Reply #7 on: 26 April, 2017, 11:17:10 pm »
Yes the same London road. Got the other things sorted out by lbs. This came on after that. Guess I'm not very lucky of late.

You've just reminded me. My chain feels like it jumps at times. Could it be the quick link? Doesn't happen all the time but on my commute it starts and happens mid ride then stops only to restart again a bit further on. Just this week it's started to jump on the cassette too. The chain was new with the cassette. Then I had my accident after which i replaced rear derailleur, big chainring and put in the sram quicklink to replace the damaged Shimano link that was damaged. I didn't change the chain length.

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Creaking bottom bracket I think.
« Reply #8 on: 26 April, 2017, 11:44:07 pm »
These external bearings for BBs come in a variety of qualities. You can pay quite a lot for them, and I understand that the expensive bearings do indeed last a long time.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

Re: Creaking bottom bracket I think.
« Reply #9 on: 27 April, 2017, 01:12:53 am »
My impression is that once you get above 'adequate' then there's little tangible benefit from expensive BB bearings - and given you can often find Ultegra for a tenner, I'd be disinclined to pay more.

What *does* make a difference is the quality of fitting. The BB shell must be faced to allow the cups to be parallel (if there's paint on the end faces, without a circle of clean metal, it hasn't been done), and the wee plastic fitting that initially holds the NDS crank in position mustn't be overtightened, or it will preload the bearings and kill them in short order.

(In another thread, someone - Brucey I think, or maybe Tors - suggested a procedure that, from memory, was something like tightening it to about 2Nm to snug the crank into position, then back off completely and retighten to 1Nm - barely finger tight. I can't remember what they said about lube.)

Finally, the crank pinch bolts must be done up very tight.

Basically, the bearing preload must be far less than you think could possibly be adequate, while the pinch bolts should be tighter than you think is needed. With a normal size allen key, as tight as you can possibly get them, then a couple of grunts more should be about right. (Ease off a touch if you're a gorilla, mind.)

Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
  • Just a tart for retro kit . . .
    • John's Bikes
Re: Creaking bottom bracket I think.
« Reply #10 on: 27 April, 2017, 01:19:09 am »
Yes the same London road. Got the other things sorted out by lbs. This came on after that. Guess I'm not very lucky of late.

You've just reminded me. My chain feels like it jumps at times. Could it be the quick link? Doesn't happen all the time but on my commute it starts and happens mid ride then stops only to restart again a bit further on. Just this week it's started to jump on the cassette too. The chain was new with the cassette. Then I had my accident after which i replaced rear derailleur, big chainring and put in the sram quicklink to replace the damaged Shimano link that was damaged. I didn't change the chain length.

Any way you could get it to me? Diagnosis pro bono...
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

Re: Creaking bottom bracket I think.
« Reply #11 on: 27 April, 2017, 09:14:04 am »
Yes the same London road. Got the other things sorted out by lbs. This came on after that. Guess I'm not very lucky of late.

You've just reminded me. My chain feels like it jumps at times. Could it be the quick link? Doesn't happen all the time but on my commute it starts and happens mid ride then stops only to restart again a bit further on. Just this week it's started to jump on the cassette too. The chain was new with the cassette. Then I had my accident after which i replaced rear derailleur, big chainring and put in the sram quicklink to replace the damaged Shimano link that was damaged. I didn't change the chain length.

Any way you could get it to me? Diagnosis pro bono...

If only. Greater Manchester area IIRC? Might only be just over an hour away but I don't go that way very often. Would you with the lakes, Dales, Howgills, etc. on your doorstep?

Guess I need to trust a lbs again. Stick with the last shop or try a nearer one staffed by a couple of old timers? Went down the old timer route with another lbs once and it was a costly mistake. Use your own good LBS (if you find one) when you can guys or they'll not be there when you need them!

Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
  • Just a tart for retro kit . . .
    • John's Bikes
Re: Creaking bottom bracket I think.
« Reply #12 on: 27 April, 2017, 01:31:12 pm »
North Manchester M24. Quite close to Jct 19, M62.

Offer's there if you want it.
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Creaking bottom bracket I think.
« Reply #13 on: 27 April, 2017, 05:26:26 pm »
My impression is that once you get above 'adequate' then there's little tangible benefit from expensive BB bearings - and given you can often find Ultegra for a tenner, I'd be disinclined to pay more.

What *does* make a difference is the quality of fitting. The BB shell must be faced to allow the cups to be parallel (if there's paint on the end faces, without a circle of clean metal, it hasn't been done), and the wee plastic fitting that initially holds the NDS crank in position mustn't be overtightened, or it will preload the bearings and kill them in short order.

(In another thread, someone - Brucey I think, or maybe Tors - suggested a procedure that, from memory, was something like tightening it to about 2Nm to snug the crank into position, then back off completely and retighten to 1Nm - barely finger tight. I can't remember what they said about lube.)

Finally, the crank pinch bolts must be done up very tight.

Basically, the bearing preload must be far less than you think could possibly be adequate, while the pinch bolts should be tighter than you think is needed. With a normal size allen key, as tight as you can possibly get them, then a couple of grunts more should be about right. (Ease off a touch if you're a gorilla, mind.)
These external bearings for BBs come in a variety of qualities. You can pay quite a lot for them, and I understand that the expensive bearings do indeed last a long time.

Having a little look, the bearings are removable and replaceable.  Get some decent branded ones and you will be laughing.

Re: Creaking bottom bracket I think.
« Reply #14 on: 27 April, 2017, 11:50:58 pm »
Trust me, you can fuck SKFs or FAGs just as easily as no-name cheapies if you screw up the installation.