Anyone want their own Hawker Hurricane?

[pcolbeck]

There's one up for sale:

http://www.warhistoryonline.com/guest-bloggers/sale-platinum-fighter-sales-1944-hawker-hurricane-mk-iv-amazing-photos.html

$1.7 million and its yours. Perfectly restored and ready to go.

[Martin]

has it got a Merlin engine? currently grounded if it has

[T42]

Packard doing a recall?

[Quisling]

Can we all chip in, call it "Fred" and park in in Caerau's garage for years like the YACF bike?
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=35406.125

[LEE]

It costs less than some "Super Cars" and therefore has a sort of good value feel to it (despite me being almost £1.7 million short of affording it myself).

It's lovely but I'd get Spitfire envy every time one flew past.

[TheLurker]

I've got one *smug*.  However...

...it's only got a wing span of about 18"
...it's still in its box (I can't have it until my birthday)
...it'll take me 6 or 7 weeks to build it
...and it'll only fly for 15s or so

But in dream world I'd have the real one soon as blink even though all Merlin engined stuff is currently grounded.  And I wouldn't get Spitfire envy.  Bit "flash" to my mind are Spitfires. 

[Torslanda]

From the BBMF this aft.

Merlins are go, subject to an air test...

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

From the BBMF this aft.

Merlins are go, subject to an air test...

It's taken a while - 84 years if wiki are right.

Anyway it's a miff that Spits won the BoB as it was mostly Hurricanes wot did it.  Altho' without Waton-Watt we'd all have been stuffed


I'd rather go modern and fling it around without rivet or woodworm failure.

[rogerzilla]

Mosquitos are probably more fun - stupidly overpowered and almost transonic.  Watch the glue joints, though.

[spesh]

Mosquitos are probably more fun - stupidly overpowered and almost transonic.  Watch the glue joints, though.

Almost transonic? Not really - the transonic regime lies between 609 and 914 mph, whereas the fastest any Mosquito managed was 439mph, and that was with the lightweight prototype fitted out with a pair of Merlin 77s. Operational Mossies were good for the high 300s, but Corsairs, Thunderbolts, Typhoons and late-model Fw190s were faster.

http://www.historynet.com/the-miraculous-mosquito.htm

[Jakob W]

Did Mossies have compressibility problems in a dive? Depending on their critical Mach number aircraft could hit the transonic regime at about 550 mph, which was doable in a steep dive.

[rogerzilla]

Yes, I was thinking of diving. I think some of the later Spitfires could do the same.

[pcolbeck]

Depending on their critical Mach number aircraft could hit the transonic regime at about 550 mph, which was doable in a steep dive.

And then often the tail fell off or something equally unpleasant until they worked out what the hell was going on.

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

Both sides could have had jet fighters much sooner in the conflict had their Air Ministries been more forward-thinking and willing to favour their development over piston engines.

Even so the Me262 put the fear of God into its opponents.

[pcolbeck]

Both sides could have had jet fighters much sooner in the conflict had their Air Ministries been more forward-thinking and willing to favour their development over piston engines.

It was a deliberate policy by the allies. They decided by 1943 that they didn't need jet fighters. They would out produce the Axis with simpler and cheaper piston engined aircraft instead. It was sound reasoning.
Now if the air ministry had backed Frank Whittle in 1929 when he originally ran his ideas past them that would have been a different matter. It easy to be wise in hindsight though.

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

Yes, I meant much sooner as in 'not at the last moment'. However it was fortunate they did have a few in order to catch buzz bombs.

AOP pilots sufferef the effectiveness of the me262 when flying on the front line in 1944/5.  They had only evasion as defence and the speed of the Me262 meant they had much less chance than with prop driven a/c.  One solution was to provide units with the turret of a Flying Fortress mounted on a lorry.  A good Bofors gunner in a Sperry turret could make things too hot for an Me 262 to want to hang around.

[Jakob W]

The problem with the arguments about how the Air Ministry should have backed Whittle earlier is that they rely on the Air Ministry having supernatural amounts of prescience and betting huge amounts of resources on a long shot. As it was, they sent Whittle to Cambridge to further develop his ideas, then seconded him to Power Jets as a serving officer; once it became clear that he had the basis for a practical engine in 1935/36, they greatly increased their funding. Building a successful engine relied on advances in compressor aerodynamics, metallurgy, and combustion that were also useful for existing piston engines; while it's possible a proof of concept gas turbine might have been built a year or two earlier, I don't think a practical engine, never mind a practical aircraft, would have been significantly earlier.

[nicknack]

A Spitfire flew over me today. So, I suppose, the problem with Merlins has been fixed or it was powered by something else.

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

The problem with the arguments about how the Air Ministry should have backed Whittle earlier is that they rely on the Air Ministry having supernatural amounts of prescience and betting huge amounts of resources on a long shot. As it was, they sent Whittle to Cambridge to further develop his ideas, then seconded him to Power Jets as a serving officer; once it became clear that he had the basis for a practical engine in 1935/36, they greatly increased their funding. Building a successful engine relied on advances in compressor aerodynamics, metallurgy, and combustion that were also useful for existing piston engines; while it's possible a proof of concept gas turbine might have been built a year or two earlier, I don't think a practical engine, never mind a practical aircraft, would have been significantly earlier.

Something we will never know!

[Martin]

A Spitfire flew over me today. So, I suppose, the problem with Merlins has been fixed or it was powered by something else.

Griffon engine variants were allowed during the Merlin ban but the Merlin engined Lancaster (I didn't know it was either until last week) and Spit were flying in Jersey yesterday

[rogerzilla]

The problem is with one of the spur gears, apparently.  If this fails on a car, you often need a new engine.  If it fails on an aeroplane, you also need a new plane and a new pilot.

[Jakob W]

Interesting; R-R had some problems with this in wartime. Both magnetos were driven off the same spur gear train, which was taken off the accessories drive at the rear of the engine. As it was quite a long flexy gear train it needed careful adjustment, otherwise it could chew itself up, killing power to both magnetos and cutting the engine. The Spitfire production test pilot Alex Henshaw had a spate of these until they figured out what was causing it.

Edit: or was it the propeller spur gearing? That would kill an engine PDQ.

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

Mosquitos are probably more fun - stupidly overpowered and almost transonic.  Watch the glue joints, though.

Almost transonic? Not really - the transonic regime lies between 609 and 914 mph, whereas the fastest any Mosquito managed was 439mph, and that was with the lightweight prototype fitted out with a pair of Merlin 77s. Operational Mossies were good for the high 300s, but Corsairs, Thunderbolts, Typhoons and late-model Fw190s were faster.

http://www.historynet.com/the-miraculous-mosquito.htm

It's interesting to compare the Mosquito to the US Lockheed P38. The former a rather cottage industry production versus SOTA US technology.  De Havilland's aircraft a clear winner!

[Morat]

Interesting; R-R had some problems with this in wartime. Both magnetos were driven off the same spur gear train, which was taken off the accessories drive at the rear of the engine. As it was quite a long flexy gear train it needed careful adjustment, otherwise it could chew itself up, killing power to both magnetos and cutting the engine. The Spitfire production test pilot Alex Henshaw had a spate of these until they figured out what was causing it.

Edit: or was it the propeller spur gearing? That would kill an engine PDQ.

Skew Gear I think it was called.


I do love the Mosquito, it's one of my favorite planes. I'm not so sure I'd want to fly in one now I know that they've got some very hairy characteristics on one engine. I'm sure if you offered me one I'd go for it though

As for the Hurricane - yes please! I just need a PPL and a new pair of eyes. I saw one do a display last month and it was fantastic.

[Jakob W]

Oops, yes - skew gear not spur gear.