Author Topic: Ti Audax frame recommendations...  (Read 3733 times)

Ti Audax frame recommendations...
« on: 20 November, 2017, 12:11:01 pm »
Can I call on your collective wisdom?

I'm having a bit of a fleet rationalisation and swap around and looking for a new Ti Audax frame to become my new fast(er) Audax bike and winter club run bike. No need to be able to take a rack, I'll get by with a bar bag or seatpack if necessary as will likely only be using this for <400k rides.

I've settled on Ti not because I think it's necessary or anything silly like that, but because It's a been a few years since I've had a Ti bike, and I miss it. I've got other steel and alu bikes as well so would be nice to have an alternative, and the paint/corrosion lack of worries is just a nice bonus, so lets just say I'm decided on Ti for my own reasons.

requirements are:

- Ti, because of above reasons
- Rim brake only, prefer DP but canti OK...
- 25mm with guards as an absolute minimum, but 28+ would be better. My Mercian can fit 32mm with guards and BR650 57mm drop brakes so I know it's possible ;-)
- threaded BB, no press-fit nonsense.
- 2x bottle cage mounts
- Mechanical routing, not Di2, and preferably externally routed cables but not a deal breaker
- under £1500 for a frame, ~£1000 or less would be even better!

Sizing wise I'm 5'7 with short legs so I'm a little awkward, On a traditional horizontal top tube bike I normally need ~50-52cm seat tube but 54cm top tube*, but I'm not a fan of the overly tall head tubes on some compact frames, so ~110-120mm head tube on anything that take external cups, ~130-140mm for integrated if it's sloping/compact geo. I'd also prefer something with <74deg seat angle if possible but can normally get by with a decent layback post.

Current list is:

- Spa Ti Audax
Probably current list leader, despite being the cheapest it looks nice (to me) from the ones I've seen in the flesh, geometry is right up my street and tyre clearance seems as good as it can be with DPs

- Dolan ADX
Looking good as decently priced, geo looks sensible and looks nice but I'm not sure tyre clearance is as good as it could be?

- Reilly Motive (can't work out if available frame only though?)
Only found online last night, looks lovely, no other knowledge yet..

- Van Nic Yukon (or maybe amazon?)
Kind of default choice? Yukon doesn't seem to have massive clearance though so possibly Amazon might be better choice?

- Sabbath September
Seems like a nice frame, but not really grabbing my attention over a VN or Spa, not sure why...


I'm not interested in anything from Lynsky, they don't seem to do it for me aesthetically and seem expensive by comparison to other options.
I'm also staying clear of Planet X, I simply don't trust them to be helpful if I have any warranty issue down the line.
I haven't ruled out Enigma but they seem a little pricey and seem to be moving towards discs for pretty much everything in their range.

Anything else I should be looking at or anyone got any glowing/scathing words about any of the above?

*although I do have a Singular Osprey which is much shorter TT and I fit it fine with a long stem and longer reach bars, but it's got a 60mm offset fork and slack head angle so a bit unconventional in other regards anyway.

Re: Ti Audax frame recommendations...
« Reply #1 on: 20 November, 2017, 12:50:14 pm »
- Van Nic Yukon (or maybe amazon?)
Kind of default choice? Yukon doesn't seem to have massive clearance though so possibly Amazon might be better choice?

I've got 28mm tyres (Schwalbe Pro One tubeless) under guards (currently these) on my Yukon.

rob

Re: Ti Audax frame recommendations...
« Reply #2 on: 20 November, 2017, 01:06:19 pm »
Take a look at Burls.   £1125 for custom.

I have a TT frame from him and Adamski has an audax frame.

Re: Ti Audax frame recommendations...
« Reply #3 on: 20 November, 2017, 01:25:29 pm »
@Somnolent - good to know, thanks

@rob - Don't know why I forgot about Burls....ta!

Re: Ti Audax frame recommendations...
« Reply #4 on: 20 November, 2017, 01:45:58 pm »
My old Omega is still going strong after about 12yrs.  I believe Burls uses the same builders that Omega used.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Ti Audax frame recommendations...
« Reply #5 on: 20 November, 2017, 03:13:47 pm »
Take a look at Burls.   £1125 for custom.

I have a TT frame from him and Adamski has an audax frame.
What sort of turn-around are we talking about?

[Dad has a Burls in a rather pretty brushed-steel finish - I think it's 20 years old, and he seems fond of it. Not huge clearances, and he's still nowhere near leaving me all the bikes in his will  >:(   ]
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

pdm

  • Sheffield hills? Nah... Just potholes.
Re: Ti Audax frame recommendations...
« Reply #6 on: 20 November, 2017, 03:23:10 pm »
FWIW:
I have an old Valkyrie Audax (what the Yukon was called before Airborne became Van Nicholas) - It has lasted very well with over 30k km on the frame. It rides well with reasonable stiffness. I also did about 15k km on a Spa Ti Audax before passing it on to my daughter. Of the two, I prefer the Valkyrie/Yukon which I found to be the stiffer and to have slightly longer legs. Ride quality is probably about the same. I use/used 25mm tyres on both. Continental GP4000SII are my current favourite for ride quality and rolling resistance.

Re: Ti Audax frame recommendations...
« Reply #7 on: 20 November, 2017, 03:31:53 pm »
Quote
I prefer the Valkyrie/Yukon which I found to be the stiffer

Hmm, any chance you could give me some more info/description as I generally prefer a more flexible frame given the choice, I've also not found many people that have actually ridden both the VN/Airborne (I miss my Airborne MTB!) and the Spa for any length of time.

rob

Re: Ti Audax frame recommendations...
« Reply #8 on: 20 November, 2017, 03:54:10 pm »
Take a look at Burls.   £1125 for custom.

I have a TT frame from him and Adamski has an audax frame.
What sort of turn-around are we talking about?

[Dad has a Burls in a rather pretty brushed-steel finish - I think it's 20 years old, and he seems fond of it. Not huge clearances, and he's still nowhere near leaving me all the bikes in his will  >:(   ]

It was a while back but I think it was 6-8 weeks.   Justin does all the spec and sends you a CAD drawing to confirm.   They're made in Russia and then shipped from his place in Essex.

Re: Ti Audax frame recommendations...
« Reply #9 on: 20 November, 2017, 05:13:27 pm »
I bought a Sabbath September earlier this year and although it's a nice bike I am a little underwhelmed by it. It is comfortable enough for long rides but lacks something. Hard to put my finger on it, maybe "smile factor". I know, it could be down to a number of other things. Also tried to put 28mm tyres on it with mudguards. The back was ok; the front was far too tight. Now gone back to 25's.

Re: Ti Audax frame recommendations...
« Reply #10 on: 20 November, 2017, 05:36:47 pm »
If you can find one at the right price (look at Freeborn bike or Upgrade Bike clearance) a Kinesis GF Ti v2 or v3 would suit, I think. 

pdm

  • Sheffield hills? Nah... Just potholes.
Re: Ti Audax frame recommendations...
« Reply #11 on: 21 November, 2017, 03:45:46 pm »
Quote
I prefer the Valkyrie/Yukon which I found to be the stiffer

Hmm, any chance you could give me some more info/description as I generally prefer a more flexible frame given the choice, I've also not found many people that have actually ridden both the VN/Airborne (I miss my Airborne MTB!) and the Spa for any length of time.

By stiffer, I mean that when I give the pedals whelly, the frame flexes less side to side - the Spa was noticeably more flexy. ((The best bike I have for stiffness is a bespoke Hewitt Alpine using very nice exotic steel - it does not budge no matter how hard I try)).
As to ride quality, the Valkyrie has curved seat stays which add to comfort a little while the Spa had straight stays; the difference in ride quality and road buzz was not really appreciable - tyres and wheels make a bigger difference for that anyway. I am a heavy rider so the Valkyrie probably absorbs an erg or three less power uphill...
I don't think there is much in it - my long term average commute times (57km over bits of the Derbyshire Peaks with 800m climbing) are similar for each bike with the Valkyrie possibly having a slight edge uphill...
I do not, sadly, have any hard evidence; not enough Spa Strava info to make a meaningful comparison.
I am sure either frame will do you proud.

Re: Ti Audax frame recommendations...
« Reply #12 on: 21 November, 2017, 03:55:45 pm »
Quote
I prefer the Valkyrie/Yukon which I found to be the stiffer

Hmm, any chance you could give me some more info/description as I generally prefer a more flexible frame given the choice, I've also not found many people that have actually ridden both the VN/Airborne (I miss my Airborne MTB!) and the Spa for any length of time.

By stiffer, I mean that when I give the pedals whelly, the frame flexes less side to side - the Spa was noticeably more flexy. ((The best bike I have for stiffness is a bespoke Hewitt Alpine using very nice exotic steel - it does not budge no matter how hard I try)).
As to ride quality, the Valkyrie has curved seat stays which add to comfort a little while the Spa had straight stays; the difference in ride quality and road buzz was not really appreciable - tyres and wheels make a bigger difference for that anyway. I am a heavy rider so the Valkyrie probably absorbs an erg or three less power uphill...
I don't think there is much in it - my long term average commute times (57km over bits of the Derbyshire Peaks with 800m climbing) are similar for each bike with the Valkyrie possibly having a slight edge uphill...
I do not, sadly, have any hard evidence; not enough Spa Strava info to make a meaningful comparison.
I am sure either frame will do you proud.

That's a decent commute

slohill

  • still at it
Re: Ti Audax frame recommendations...
« Reply #13 on: 21 November, 2017, 05:00:46 pm »
Take a look at Burls.   £1125 for custom.

I have a TT frame from him and Adamski has an audax frame.

I have used a Burls custom Ti frame since 2009.  Just let Jason Burls know what you want and you will get that---conditioned by his wisdom.  Brilliant frame at a brilliant price! :thumbsup:
Organiser of  Tour of the Berwyns 200k and Panorama Prospect 130k; Saturday May 20 2023

Re: Ti Audax frame recommendations...
« Reply #14 on: 21 November, 2017, 05:18:56 pm »
I have a Tripster ATR which I really like.

I was going to go to Burls, but he was having massive problems at the time what with the tubing coming from Russia. No idea if that's now been sorted out?
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Ti Audax frame recommendations...
« Reply #15 on: 21 November, 2017, 05:28:22 pm »
I htink the Tripster fails on being disc-braked?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Ti Audax frame recommendations...
« Reply #16 on: 21 November, 2017, 05:51:02 pm »
I htink the Tripster fails on being disc-braked?

My mistake, I should have read the OP more carefully.

It is the 21st century though  :P
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

pdm

  • Sheffield hills? Nah... Just potholes.
Re: Ti Audax frame recommendations...
« Reply #17 on: 21 November, 2017, 06:04:29 pm »
That's a decent commute

It is a beautiful commute but not as heroic as it sounds!   ;)
That is the round trip distance and it does sound further in km.... Since "retiring" I only do it 2 or 3 days a week now.

Re: Ti Audax frame recommendations...
« Reply #18 on: 21 November, 2017, 06:20:00 pm »
That's a decent commute

It is a beautiful commute but not as heroic as it sounds!   ;)
That is the round trip distance and it does sound further in km.... Since "retiring" I only do it 2 or 3 days a week now.

Still a pleasure, and one that maybe isn't as soiled by heavy traffic as the run from Harrogate to Leeds?

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Ti Audax frame recommendations...
« Reply #19 on: 21 November, 2017, 06:49:53 pm »
I htink the Tripster fails on being disc-braked?

My mistake, I should have read the OP more carefully.

It is the 21st century though  :P
Good point. Perhaps a Ford Focus would be a good bet? Faster and warmer than a Tripster  :thumbsup:
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Ti Audax frame recommendations...
« Reply #20 on: 21 November, 2017, 06:55:07 pm »
I am very happy with my Sabbath September.
The quality of the welds looks very good compared to cheaper frames I've seen such as the Spa ones. Might be worth you looking at some of these in the flesh if you can before deciding? Lynskey frames also have top quality welds and finishing from what I've seen.

Simon on the other hand is very happy with his 2 Van Nick Yukon frames (one fixed one not).

28's would fit on both the Sabbath and Yukon frames but would be very tight- we both use 25's.

Re: Ti Audax frame recommendations...
« Reply #21 on: 22 November, 2017, 11:36:50 am »
Quote
I have used a Burls custom Ti frame since 2009.  Just let Jason Burls know what you want and you will get that---conditioned by his wisdom.  Brilliant frame at a brilliant price! :thumbsup:

He's been very helpful over email so far, I am very very tempted as custom for the price he offers is very good indeed, I just can't help but think I can probably get 'close enough' from the Spa for ~500 quid less which is hard to argue with :-s

gibbo

  • Riding for fun, cake and beer.
    • Boxford Bike Club
Re: Ti Audax frame recommendations...
« Reply #22 on: 23 November, 2017, 12:10:42 pm »
I have a Burls, got it earlier this year. I gave him the measurements I wanted and we worked from that. I think I paid something like £1675 for the frameset with a few extras.

Gibbo.

Re: Ti Audax frame recommendations...
« Reply #23 on: 23 November, 2017, 12:25:32 pm »
If you are very sure that you know exactly what you want then start by having a read of Spanner Bikes at spanner.org.uk (I have never had any dealings with him, but I do enjoy reading his site) and then get your own bike made exactly how you want it.  I get the impression that the cost would be well within your budget, but I also get the impression that it will probably take about three frames before it is exactly what you want...