Fantasy planning a 1000k ride

[Bobby]

Maybe 2018, maybe 2019 I fancy doing a 1000k perm... as long as I can sort some comfort & fitness issues it would be a great goal to help my mojo

So, as I play with route & hotel options, I wondered what’s the perceived logic regarding start times?

History tells me that I can do about 380k before I simply must stop for some sleep.  It also tells me that travelodge or similar would be best unless it’s just a 10min audax hotel doze, as I just cannot sleep well on long brevet.

Should I set off:

• At ~5am and aim for 330k a day?
• Late-afternoon, aim to ride through the first night?
• Do something else?

My search-foo is failing me, sorry if this has been covered before...

[eck]

C:  do something else.

FWIW Otherdave OTP and I did a very gentlemanly DIY 1000k perm a few years ago. Three clover-leaf loops, and then a quick out and back on the last morning. 
Day 1 start at 08.56, 294k
Day 2 338k 
Day 3 274k
Day 4 108k , finish 11.21

Home every night for a shower, food and sleep.
1014k, 74h 25m.
 
I can't think of an easier way to do it.

[Bobby]

That sounds like a better plan - very civilised 

[whosatthewheel]

75 hours is 3 days + 3 hours. If you start early, you will be bound to get up at stupid o'clock on the last day to finish. I think a 10AM to 12 PM start is probably your best shot. That leaves you plenty of options on how to split the ride.

I wouldn't necessarily be tempted to do a massive day one. The risk is to pick up some injury (being that numb hands, sore knees, a saddle sore), which you then have to carry for the following days.

Ideally I would do 250 km on day one, same on day 2, then do a long day 3 (maybe 350?) and a short (but not too short) day 4. Then of course it depends on the perm... you might have little choice

[Tomsk]

I think a 10AM to 12 PM start is probably your best shot...

My thoughts exactly re: planning the ACME Grand. Ride the first night, maybe a have nap or two, another 200km or so before there should be time in hand for a longer sleep. The alternative I considered was the Flat Earth Bob advice to start later, as per pre-2011 PBPs and ride 400+ before stopping.

I looked at where I was at the end of each day and at 1000km, on both PBPs and LELs, including early morning LEL [2005] and late evening PBP starts. I felt for a calendar event, 11:00 gives time for a more relaxed night's sleep and adequate time to get to the start. Earlier might be better for a start from your front door. That said, I personally like end of the day starts, but that's probably a minority view...

[rob]

I don't sleep very well on the first night of a long ride so PBP, for instance, really suits me.

I took a similar approach on other long rides and the cumulative fatigue on night 2 allows for some proper sleep.

[BeMoreMike]

My planning for one of these got as far as 3 x 300 + 100 in a cloverleaf or all 'out & back' returning home every night.

Day 1 / 300km: 11:00 - 03:00  (16hrs) + 5hrs sleep/faff
Day 2 / 300km: 08:00 - 01:00  (17hrs) + 5hrs
Day 3 / 300km: 06:00 - 00:00  (18hrs) + 6hrs
Day 4 / 100km: 06:00 - 12:00  (6hrs)

Total 73hrs.

Starting at 11:00 doesn't impact on my day before, gives me a normal bedtime and more than adequate sleep and breakfast. Finishing by midday on day 4 should hopefully allow a bit of recovery before the return to normality.
 

[mattc]

I think a 10AM to 12 PM start is probably your best shot...

My thoughts exactly re: planning the ACME Grand. Ride the first night, maybe a have nap or two, another 200km or so before there should be time in hand for a longer sleep. The alternative I considered was the Flat Earth Bob advice to start later, as per pre-2011 PBPs and ride 400+ before stopping.

I looked at where I was at the end of each day and at 1000km, on both PBPs and LELs, including early morning LEL [2005] and late evening PBP starts. I felt for a calendar event, 11:00 gives time for a more relaxed night's sleep and adequate time to get to the start. Earlier might be better for a start from your front door. That said, I personally like end of the day starts, but that's probably a minority view...

Yup, late morning ticks most of the boxes for most events. There can be geographic issues, and/or particular control constraints which change this (e.g. I didn't fancy descending the Galibier in the dark on the French 1000 last year!), but they're rare.

@Tomsk: end of day starts have a lot of pluses, but not for a 1000k. It's that 75h thing - you have to finish 3h later in the day than the start. So a late start leads to a very very long last day, and probably finishing in the dark.

[Wycombewheeler]

Start at 13.00 ride 200km sleep ride 300km sleep ride 300km sleep start at 6.00 ride 200km finish at 15.00 with an hour in hand. (Assuming you can ride 200km in 9 hours)

[whosatthewheel]

Incidentally I had looked at doing the MC1K as a permanent as the course is well suited (and appears a touch easier than the coming Vol. 3). Basically I could check in a B&B the night before for 4 nights, then drive to the start the morning after and have the freedom to pop in and out of the B&B at please without the need to be there at a reasonable time to check in/out. That gives a great deal of flexibility... but of course it sets the daily mileage to a fixed amount

[hillbilly]

Ideal 1000km start for me is mid morning (9am ish). 

Largely because it means I don't go into the ride sleep deprived.  But also because it allows me to follow my preferred "diminishing distance between sleeps" schedule (350 + 300 + 250 + 100) whilst retaining good flexibility for 6 hours+ of sleep around my core sleeping hours (2am-5am).

May not suit all paces or sleep needs.

[Bobby]

Ideal 1000km start for me is mid morning (9am ish). 

Largely because it means I don't go into the ride sleep deprived.  But also because it allows me to follow my preferred "diminishing distance between sleeps" schedule (350 + 300 + 250 + 100) whilst retaining good flexibility for 6 hours+ of sleep around my core sleeping hours (2am-5am).

May not suit all paces or sleep needs.

I love that in bike-riding 9am is classed as mid-morning (Just did a straw poll of non-cycling people & the civilian population claim mid-morning is 11am  )

I do like the idea of either 4 days or 4 days & diminishing distances - will lot out what it'd look like in terms of planned perm & stopping places

Thanks all 

[arabella]

What works for you depends on whether you're a fast whippet or a fuller value rider, and how well you get on with little/no sleep.
My 1000km perm ride was an out and back, though I started about 1/5 way along which I split into approx 560km and 440km with a 12 hour break at a B&B
thus
day 1: get train to start, have lunch, start after lunch and do 220 approx km (1st 1/5) and have 4winks in the small hours in same 24 hour cafe
day 2: continue until I reached the B&B about 7pm (with leeway in either direction) and sleep, thus getting max use of B&B, unlike, for me, booking >1 night
day 3: start about 7:30am after the brekky and keep going (via crinkly catering^tm at late lunch/high tea o'clock) and keep on via coffee-with-students in a 24hour mcd accepting pedestrians
day 4: continue until i get back to the start in time for lunch, eat and go home, again on a train

[Bobby]

I’m towards the full value end, especially on long brevet (600+)

[Bianchi Boy]

I like to go somewhere on a ride. The coming back home would just suck out my will and make me stay in bed. Do an out and back or a loop and plan to stop in places that will allow you in 24 hours. I am planning a Reading - Carlisle - Reading 1200 km. Includes enough hills, going across the Pennines twice, to make it interesting and enough flat, down the east, to make it not too taxing.

As for the start time I find riding through the night doable but would avoid this on the first night and leave it as an option on the final night if pushed for time. Really what is the point of planning to ride with sleep deprivation for three days?

BB

[Ivo]

In my experience, as a full value, night loving, rider, a noonish/early afternoon start offers the best options for completion. Starting fresh enough to push through the first night and have half of the event done and dusted before the first sleep stop. The last night can be either spent somewhere sleeping or riding depending on the amount of time available.
During the Maastricht 1000 we had a mid morning start. I did sleep in my bivy bag for a few hours at the end of the first night, an ATM sleep for the 2nd night and a short kip on night 3. Starting later would have shifted the sleep pattern more towards a proper 2nd night and no sleep in the first night.

[Bobby]

It's about 40k over distance at the moment, but have found travelodges at 315km, 620km, and 910km.  With a mid-morning start that's getting close to workable...

Need to work out where & why I'm 40k over the advisory route... I suspect Strava is taking me away from some of the main-road bashing, but depending on the time of night I'll be swapping it back.

[Diesel]

I think a good night's sleep before you start can be very useful. When I have done 600s starting at 6 A.M. I have not had much sleep and got up early to make the start. So already tired before starting!

This year did a 1000km DIY to south of France and started at noon. It felt odd but allowed a good night sleep, leisurely morning and good meal before I left.

75 hour limit meant a finishing time by 1500 (1600 local time) on the last day so thinking about finishing time is important as well.