Author Topic: Shimano bar end shifter set-up  (Read 7560 times)

Shimano bar end shifter set-up
« on: 04 July, 2012, 08:51:36 pm »
n+1 has bar end shifters, DuraAce. I really like them but they are different from the last ones I used, about 25 years ago!

When fitting them, the right hand one came apart due to a fumble on my part. You know that little castellated nut and the little tabbed washer thing? Well, let’s just say that a lot of boabwords had to be directed towards them while I figured out how it all went back together. Anyway, all is well on the indexing front / shifting etc, but there was an element of gentle trial and error.  For future reference does anyone know of a set-up or rebuild guide, preferably illustrated, so that I can see how it all works in there?

Also - how tight do you have the boss screws? Is it always the case that the right shifter has fairly firm detentes or can I reduce this? Slightly concerned about them dismantling themselves during a ride.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Shimano bar end shifter set-up
« Reply #1 on: 04 July, 2012, 09:15:02 pm »
For future reference does anyone know of a set-up or rebuild guide, preferably illustrated, so that I can see how it all works in there?

Not really, but there isn't that much to know, now you've worked out how they go together - the important bits aren't supposed to be servicable.  The only subtle thing is that the left and right shifters' tabbed washers are subtly different, and if you get them the wrong way round they'll /almost/ sit right.


Quote
Also - how tight do you have the boss screws? Is it always the case that the right shifter has fairly firm detentes or can I reduce this? Slightly concerned about them dismantling themselves during a ride.

Boss screws moderately tight, so there's no question of anything working loose.  Never has done.  Not had any problems.

The firmness isn't adjustable, AFAIK, unlike on the Microshift[1] version.

The thing to worry about isn't that they'll dismantle themselves during a ride, but that they'll get bashed and broken.  Obviously this is more of a risk on a USS recumbent, where they're in an exposed position and all you have to do it load it onto a train wrongly, than on normal drop bars, which will tend to pivot out of trouble.  The right shifter is particularly vulnerable to sideways force, as the indexing ring is fragile (?plastic) and will crack.  Once this happens, you may or may not notice partially incorrect indexing, depending on where it cracked.  Eventually the innards work apart and the friction bit loses grip, and then you're stuffed.  The left is simpler and will take more abuse, but has the same eventual failure mode.  If the outer black plastic ring is cracked, then it's just a matter of time before the shifter fails.

If you find the rubber grip works loose, this can be easily rectified with vinyl adhesive.


[1] I've just fitted a set of these.  They work well enough, but it's too early to tell whether they're more durable than the Shimano.

Re: Shimano bar end shifter set-up
« Reply #2 on: 04 July, 2012, 11:01:51 pm »
Thanks for all that info, Kim. Working out what goes where wasn’t too bad but I can’t visualise how it works during indexing, or what is going into what notch, or whatever.

The left isn’t indexed. I didn’t investigate the innards as it all stayed together while I changed to a different set of bars. I wonder if it is identical but just without that small washer. I’m not sure what it would be like if it was indexed: there would need to be at least 4 “stops” to allow the front derailleur to be feathered. Probably less faff to leave it on friction.

They are indeed vulnerable to unwanted gear changes when going through doors and the like - especially as my bars have an outward flare in the drops.

robgul

  • Cycle:End-to-End webmaster
  • cyclist, Cytech accredited mechanic & woodworker
    • Cycle:End-to-End
Re: Shimano bar end shifter set-up
« Reply #3 on: 05 July, 2012, 11:09:16 am »
Thanks for all that info, Kim. Working out what goes where wasn’t too bad but I can’t visualise how it works during indexing, or what is going into what notch, or whatever.

The left isn’t indexed. I didn’t investigate the innards as it all stayed together while I changed to a different set of bars. I wonder if it is identical but just without that small washer. I’m not sure what it would be like if it was indexed: there would need to be at least 4 “stops” to allow the front derailleur to be feathered. Probably less faff to leave it on friction.

They are indeed vulnerable to unwanted gear changes when going through doors and the like - especially as my bars have an outward flare in the drops.

AFAIK the LH/front bar-end changer is ONLY available in friction mode (at least all of mine are)

Rob

Re: Shimano bar end shifter set-up
« Reply #4 on: 05 July, 2012, 01:12:21 pm »
yep all mine have been left hand friction only.

For the right hand there's one key bit which is the orientation of the ratchet washer which is clearly shown on the shimano tech documents. It is possible to set it up with this in the wrong orientation and then it comes close to indexing and seems to work but not quite....and I know this because... :facepalm:
Nuns, no sense of humour

Re: Shimano bar end shifter set-up
« Reply #5 on: 05 July, 2012, 06:02:09 pm »
Noted re LH lever, thanks.

I did look at the Shimano techdocs for this, but it fails to show the bit that I need to see. It’s easy enough to work out how to orientate the part labelled 2 here:

http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/EV/bikecomponents/SL/EV-SL-BS79-2873A_v1_m56577569830728256.pdf

But that wasn’t my problem, I needed to see how to orientate the small tabbed washer that goes inside what is shown as an already-assembled lever, or between 2 and the lever. Anyway it all works well, but I’d like to see it in more detail.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Shimano bar end shifter set-up
« Reply #6 on: 05 July, 2012, 06:31:01 pm »
But that wasn’t my problem, I needed to see how to orientate the small tabbed washer that goes inside what is shown as an already-assembled lever, or between 2 and the lever. Anyway it all works well, but I’d like to see it in more detail.

I think that is, sadly, a case of "no user-serviceable parts inside".

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Shimano bar end shifter set-up
« Reply #7 on: 01 March, 2018, 07:53:21 pm »
Aha! Just ressurecting this.

I have a pair of these that I've just installed on th eCruzbike build.  Mounting the shifters to the bike wasn't a problem, but I'm scratching my head over cable routing.  I can see where the outer comes into the bottom of the shifter, but I'm struggling to visualise the inner cable routing.  The Shimano tech docs don't address this point

Any tips
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Shimano bar end shifter set-up
« Reply #8 on: 01 March, 2018, 08:26:17 pm »
It's simply a case of threading the inner through the hole in the top of the lever (which the nipple rests in), through the corresponding hole in the base of the shifter and into the outer.  With the lever in the fully-down position, and a bit of patience, this can be done all in one go (eg. to replace the inner cable at the roadside), but if you haven't got you bar grip/tape installed yet, it can usefully be simplified by pulling the outer out of the way, doing the shifter bit and then feeding the inner into the outer separately.

Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
  • Just a tart for retro kit . . .
    • John's Bikes
Re: Shimano bar end shifter set-up
« Reply #9 on: 02 March, 2018, 08:44:02 am »
Either under the bar tape for around 150mm or all the way to the stem. The latter as long as the cable run can be kept smooth, no sharp bends.

ETA 'Read the question, dickhead!' Joint Matriculation Board, 1979...

VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

Re: Shimano bar end shifter set-up
« Reply #10 on: 02 March, 2018, 01:38:45 pm »
Either under the bar tape for around 150mm or all the way to the stem. The latter as long as the cable run can be kept smooth, no sharp bends.

I'm about to fit Shimano 7700 bar end shifters to my touring bike, still haven't decided whether to run the cable completely under the tape or just for the first 150mm. I can see how the latter might make changing cables easier and because the routing is less convoluted, possibly better shifting? Any other pros/cons with each? I'm a little worried with the latter method that the cable might get in the way when making a sudden reach for the brakes on the drops, or is that not an issue in practice?
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Shimano bar end shifter set-up
« Reply #11 on: 02 March, 2018, 01:42:13 pm »
Either under the bar tape for around 150mm or all the way to the stem. The latter as long as the cable run can be kept smooth, no sharp bends.

I'm about to fit Shimano 7700 bar end shifters to my touring bike, still haven't decided whether to run the cable completely under the tape or just for the first 150mm. I can see how the latter might make changing cables easier and because the routing is less convoluted, possibly better shifting? Any other pros/cons with each? I'm a little worried with the latter method that the cable might get in the way when making a sudden reach for the brakes on the drops, or is that not an issue in practice?

The main con is that God kills a kitten every time someone routes their cables this way.  Seriously, it looks foul!  My eyes might melt again!

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Shimano bar end shifter set-up
« Reply #12 on: 02 March, 2018, 01:44:14 pm »
No personal experience, but it always looks like a horrible bodge when it emerges from the tape like that.  And a recipe for mucking up the tape when it gets snagged on something, though I suppose that can be averted by judicious application of electrical tape under the grip.

I reckon that if you're having to replace outer cable mid-tour, then you're having a pretty bad day, and having to re-do the bar tape on top of that isn't going to make things appreciably worse.

Re: Shimano bar end shifter set-up
« Reply #13 on: 02 March, 2018, 01:49:56 pm »
No personal experience, but it always looks like a horrible bodge when it emerges from the tape like that.  And a recipe for mucking up the tape when it gets snagged on something, though I suppose that can be averted by judicious application of electrical tape under the grip.

I reckon that if you're having to replace outer cable mid-tour, then you're having a pretty bad day, and having to re-do the bar tape on top of that isn't going to make things appreciably worse.

Okay, it's just that my LBS seemed to be advising me to *not* go the under-the-bar tape route. I'd much prefer it aesthetically under the tape personally. I'm not 100% whether Shimano supply enough inner cable and outer housing to route under the bar tape with the 9 spd 7700 Durace shifters, though - has anyone tried it with the included cable?
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Shimano bar end shifter set-up
« Reply #14 on: 02 March, 2018, 01:52:36 pm »
I have jus purchased two mega reels of brake and gear outer - probably enough for the rest of my life, so that's not an issue.

Question for me is "as long as it's not too sharp a bend".  I'd like to follow the length of the handlebars for arsethetics if nothing else
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Shimano bar end shifter set-up
« Reply #15 on: 02 March, 2018, 06:16:35 pm »
It's simply a case of threading the inner through the hole in the top of the lever (which the nipple rests in), through the corresponding hole in the base of the shifter and into the outer.  With the lever in the fully-down position, and a bit of patience, this can be done all in one go (eg. to replace the inner cable at the roadside), but if you haven't got you bar grip/tape installed yet, it can usefully be simplified by pulling the outer out of the way, doing the shifter bit and then feeding the inner into the outer separately.

Got it  :thumbsup:

It was the groove that was confusing me, but now looking at it a gain, I realise that it has no function other than cable guide as the lever moves
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: Shimano bar end shifter set-up
« Reply #16 on: 02 March, 2018, 06:19:43 pm »
if the cable follows the bar all the way then there are lots of extra bends in it. The net effect of this is that the setup is likely to work less well from day one and it will stop working acceptably rather sooner than it would otherwise.

FWIW on touring bikes I think that mounting the shifters under the tops of dropped bars is the best way; this keeps the shifters out of harm's way, within easy reach, and the cable runs nice and simple.

Re feeding the cable; some folk find it easier to remove the lever from the mount when feeding the cable through the hole in the mount.

cheers

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Shimano bar end shifter set-up
« Reply #17 on: 02 March, 2018, 06:26:24 pm »

FWIW on touring bikes I think that mounting the shifters under the tops of dropped bars is the best way; this keeps the shifters out of harm's way, within easy reach, and the cable runs nice and simple.

cheers


I can't visualise that with a bar-end shifter.

My build is one of these https://cruzbike.com/s40 btw, so you can see the bend in the bars
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: Shimano bar end shifter set-up
« Reply #18 on: 02 March, 2018, 06:47:02 pm »
this is the setup using paul's mounts for shimano bar end shifters on dropped bars. 



[although I might mount them so that they are forwards of the bar instead of behind with those brackets.]

There are lots of other possible ways of achieving a similar result, some of which may be applicable to bikes with odd handlebars.  For example a bar end shifter can be mounted into the end of any bracket that contains a length of  tube with the right ID (which includes most steel tubes which are 22.2mm OD).

Some of the brackets listed here
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/accessory-fitting-brackets/
are strong/stiff enough to allow bar end shifters to be mounted to them. In some cases a single clamp to the bar can be doubled up so that the tube is better supported.

cheers

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Shimano bar end shifter set-up
« Reply #19 on: 02 March, 2018, 07:31:41 pm »
Now I see, an adaptor is required. That could be a potential solution if the bar end route proves untenable
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

fruitcake

  • some kind of fruitcake
Re: Shimano bar end shifter set-up
« Reply #20 on: 02 March, 2018, 07:57:10 pm »
Back to the original question, when it comes to assembling the shifter, there are four ways the tabbed washer can be installed on the square. Only one of these positions gives proper indexing.

I guess the correct position for the tabbed washer depends on the model of shift lever.

Here's a diagram, apparently from a Shimano user manual, that was uploaded to flickr. With the shifter shown here, the correct position for the tab is downwards (i.e. pointing to 6 o'clock).




Worst case, in the absence of a manual, you'd have to try each position until you found one that gave proper indexing across the range.

Here is a post on another forum
detailing a set-up method.

Re: Shimano bar end shifter set-up
« Reply #21 on: 02 March, 2018, 08:38:43 pm »
FWIW I have always run my barend cables to come out in line wirh thé horizontal section of the drops. That was how my peers did it on 1970's cyclo-cross bikes and I thought that they knew berger than me what they were doing. It doesn't flap too much if you get the outer lengths right.

Re: Shimano bar end shifter set-up
« Reply #22 on: 03 March, 2018, 09:11:43 am »
FWIW I have always run my barend cables to come out in line wirh thé horizontal section of the drops. That was how my peers did it on 1970's cyclo-cross bikes and I thought that they knew berger than me what they were doing. It doesn't flap too much if you get the outer lengths right.

My main concerns with the "traditional" bar end cable routing (apart from obviously the aesthetics) are a) potential to get the cables snagged on things and b) the cables getting in the way when changing hand positions on the drops, but I'm not sure how much of an issue these are in practice.
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Shimano bar end shifter set-up
« Reply #23 on: 03 March, 2018, 09:53:50 am »
My cables for bar end levers exit the handlebar tape at the base of the brake levers. No effect on any of the hand positions and little in the way of additional bends/ length.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Shimano bar end shifter set-up
« Reply #24 on: 03 March, 2018, 09:54:21 am »


My main concerns .......are ....... I'm not sure how much of an issue these are in practice.

-not much.

cheers