600k in 24hrs

[Bobby]

feeling motivated by following PBP from my chair...

Is it possible I can get from "ok at completing a BRM SR series" and "able to do a 200 in 8.5hrs - albeit totally knackered" to "able to ride 600k in 24hrs"?

Where would I start?  Ok, regular riding but how do you focus a 'training plan' on something that's quite that big?

Short intervals? 20min intervals? 1hr intervals? Something different?

What advice do people have, ta!

[Ben T]

the easiest way of riding 600k in 24 hours is the first half of pbp  only time I ever have anyway

[Ningishzidda]

Are you talking 600 km in 24 hours riding time or total time.
If its total time, you’ll miss the pizza, scones and cream, cake and tea loaf at the stops.

Why?

[Bobby]

Why? Good question  

Firstly I fancied riding the MR24 this year but had to go to a wedding so am eyeing it up for 2016 (and I'd need 600k to take my local club record from mattc:)).

Secondly when I rode the WCW I had a revelation about taking my time to rest and enjoy the controls.  If I can ride fast(er), then that approach should be quite relaxing

I'm slow on hills, it impacts my ability to stay with groups on audax rides - so that is an obvious focus, but equally I'd like the ability to hold a higher average speed on flats.  All in all the ability to ride faster should lead to more fun, not that I intend to really ride audax600s in 24hrs 

[Ningishzidda]

"take my local club record from mattc"

Justification enough. Club rivalry is foremost. 

[mattc]

Why? Good question  

Firstly I fancied riding the MR24 this year but had to go to a wedding so am eyeing it up for 2016 (and I'd need 600k to take my local club record from mattc:)).

Secondly when I rode the WCW I had a revelation about taking my time to rest and enjoy the controls.  If I can ride fast(er), then that approach should be quite relaxing

I'm slow on hills, it impacts my ability to stay with groups on audax rides - so that is an obvious focus, but equally I'd like the ability to hold a higher average speed on flats.  All in all the ability to ride faster should lead to more fun, not that I intend to really ride audax600s in 24hrs 

I've never ridden a 200 in 8.5 hours, so I see no reason that you shouldn't be able to ride further than me in 24!

(and remember, the TT courses are a lot flatter than almost any audax route).

Riding a "regular" 600k in 24hours is a totally different kettle of fish - not something that a rider like me could ever contemplate.

[hillbilly]

There are very few randonneurs who are up to that kind of pace, but it isn't unheard of.

Doing a 600 in 24 hours generally needs you to ride in a group who are similarly motivated and prepared to work together.  You want to fall in with people like ZigZag and Veloboy of this parish.  It is a very tough ask for riders who prefer to ride solo for long stretches. 

Then there are the obvious things of minimising time off the bike.  Which can be planned around and so the biggest challenge is maintaining a moving average of towards 30kph.

As Matt says, if it is a TT then you are more likely to achieve it (particularly if you have some support whilst doing it).

[Bobby]

I'm never going to be one of those super fast riders - I was thinking more about 24TT, and generally being 'faster' on audax rides.  My fastest 200 was a DIY with minimal stops, it's not maintainable...

I don't know if people have access to see the strava detail?
https://www.strava.com/activities/343759943

So I'm good with time off hte bike, it's more about how to get my average speed on the bike up... and keep it high(er) after 8/12/20 hours...

[Ningishzidda]

the easiest way of riding 600k in 24 hours is the first half of pbp  only time I ever have anyway

Was that in a chain gang, or alone?

[marcusjb]

Whatever support you need; financial, material, emotional; you can have it all. 

Whatever is needed to knock Matt off that top spot!

[cygnet]

 

I'm going to nick Oranj's advice in case I get tempted my arms twisted to ride another next year

[Bobby]

Thanks Oranj - how often do you think these sort of intervals should be done?  Maybe twice a week with 1 long ride and 1-2 other/easy/tempo rides?

LOL Marcus, I'm sure Matt will be encouraging me too, so I've got to give it a go (still sounds like a bastard long way to go in 24hrs!)

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

Bobby - here's my experience if it helps:

I've done 2 24hr TTs and managed 600k both times.  The first time I struggled through the night; the second time I kept going better and reached 670k.  I'm not in that nick at the moment and at the moment would typically take 8.5 hours for a 200k.

My approach to training for 24hr TTs was to ride 100 mile TTs and do fast DIY or mesh perms, stopping only very briefly for brevidence.  My 200k times were just above 7 hours (on this minimal stop basis) and my 100 mile TT times just under 4 hr 30.  You can probably get away with being a little slower than this, because I lose more speed that most riding through the night - but I would still aim for a good 7hr30 200k and a sub 4-45 100 mile.

When I was going for a fast 24Hr time I also did a reasonable amount of weights in the gym, primarily squats and deadlifts to improve lower back strength and leg - back connective strength - because of the time spent in one position with very limited stops.  I also did interval training on a rowing machine (which I find easier than on a bicycle because of the precision with which the ergo can measure your output. 

Riding a 24 is the hardest thing I have done - harder than a wet Paris Brest Paris, harder than the Mille Miglia, tougher than a wet Bryan Chapman with headwinds in both directions, and more suffering that finishing a bad weather Brimstone not being able to eat properly on the second day due to a campylobacter infection.  I take my hat off to those who do 1 or more of these every year.  The main reason is that every time you ease off or take a break you are aware of the miles and time slipping away.

[Pedal Castro]

Why? Good question  

Firstly I fancied riding the MR24 this year but had to go to a wedding so am eyeing it up for 2016 (and I'd need 600k to take my local club record from mattc:)).

Secondly when I rode the WCW I had a revelation about taking my time to rest and enjoy the controls.  If I can ride fast(er), then that approach should be quite relaxing

I'm slow on hills, it impacts my ability to stay with groups on audax rides - so that is an obvious focus, but equally I'd like the ability to hold a higher average speed on flats.  All in all the ability to ride faster should lead to more fun, not that I intend to really ride audax600s in 24hrs 

I entered the MR24 this year, as preparation for PBP really, I had a free weekend, noticed that my club didn't have a standing record so thought why not. I set myself a minimum target of not being last and an aspirational target of 350 miles. After 200 miles in 12 hours it was clear that my upper target wasn't high enough so I calculated that 600km was on the cards. Unfortunately I punctured on the finishing circuit, lost 14 minutes and missed my 6 points by a handful of miles.

However, I did enjoy the ride very much, much more so than the WCW or PBP so will be back next year having trained more specifically for it.

[marcusjb]

LOL Marcus, I'm sure Matt will be encouraging me too, so I've got to give it a go (still sounds like a bastard long way to go in 24hrs!)

It is a bastard long way to ride a bike in 24 hours, have no doubt on that!

It is still one of the things I am most proud of on a bike and still gnaws away at me that I could have done better, so I am going to have to do it again sometime. 

Even as I built towards it, my ideal target of 600km sounded outrageous. I had never ridden a 600km audax in less than about 35 hours. But it is about motivation I guess, on an audax I have 40 hours to do that, so can afford to relax a little and take my time at controls. But it still seemed impossible. But, on the day, it starts to come together and the ability to just keep going (particularly with support) is just amazing. The roads are fast and corners/junctions minimal, so you can sit in position and just get on with it.

I wish I had spent more time on the aero bars in the lead up. I ran them on my bike to 6-7 months beforehand. But I just kept in doing audax style long rides where there just isn't the opportunity to sit in position for the length of time you will start to in the 24. I should have ridden 100 mile time trials.

Beyond that, it was the most amazing experience. However as cet says, it was the single hardest thing ever. It recalibrates everything. I can never think of audax riding as particularly difficult now, there just isn't the same mental pressure as there is on the 24. You can not stop. It just goes on and on. Relentless pressure.

But, the flip side is that level of accomplishment you feel at the end. And to have beaten mattc's record would just take that on to a level I just can not even comprehend.

[Bobby]

Thanks all for the advice - nice to get some perspective from CET as to speed on 200's or 100mile TTs beforehand.  My wife now knows this is the 2016 target, and tonight the old bike is going back on the turbo so I can start getting some interval work in (too easy to fall into LSD or SSD! rides )

A bit of focus, then in the new season I'll bite the bullet and actually rock up to a club TT, no doubt I'll be at the back, but I'll learn a lot.

I've used the clip-on-bars for some time now, but thinking about it, you're right Marcus there is very limited time spent on them on audax because the roads don't lend themselves to it or other people are around.  I feel I could go a bit lower/narrower with them, but wont change anything until I've tried something like a 100mile TT to see.  Now to find some local roads and benchmark myself

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

I used my clip-on aero bars extensively prior to the 24 to get used to them - and would often ride90% of a 70 mile training ride in an aero position, and all (except turns or short climbs) of 100 mile TT aero.  I didn't do the same for the actual event as riding in different positions helped reduce the strain on the lower back (Andy Wilkinson who set his 541 mile record when I did my 420 had to be helped off his bike).

Since then I often use aero-bars on Audax events - as an example they came in useful on the Kernow & SW 600 this year on the long rolling headwind sections towards Penzance and they are also very useful on descents as I can coast at 30mph on 3% gradients in an aero position but need more like 5% in a normal position.  But I would estimate that in a 24 I was aero 80% of the time on an Audax I'm closer to non-aero 80% of the time.   But they still give me a time saving because they give me 2mph extra in headwinds and more on descents.

[Bobby]

Well, my wife has just written MR24 in her diary for 23rd July 2016.  Its written in pen, so I have no choice... better get some base miles in! 

[mattc]

I keep saying that I will have another go at the 24 some day; basically I need to be really up for it, no point in treating it as just another hard day in the calendar. Having a bit of a scrap on the day would be ideal motivation!

Sadly, it seems that audax organisers* will put one (or more) events on every flippin year that clash with this.

So i suspect this will only happen when I'm a bit bored of doing big audaxes, and a bit more excited by the 24.


_{*curse them, giving up their time so that I can have a good time!}

[Jethro]

In my 'youth' I managed to complete the NW Passage 200 (Rochdale) in a little over 7 hours (in February!) and also completed the Brevet Cymru in a little over 16 hours.

I thought that I had the 'form' to do the WCW in about 24 hours and rode to a tight/strict schedule.  That was until I blew up after completing the first half in under 12 hours.

I never recovered physically and mentally and was a non-finisher.  A few years later and I did complete the WCW 600, but I took it a lot steadier and enjoyed the ride, taking 32 hours.

The lesson (for me) was to respect the distance and not push the pace but to enjoy it.

[Bobby]

I keep saying that I will have another go at the 24 some day; basically I need to be really up for it, no point in treating it as just another hard day in the calendar. Having a bit of a scrap on the day would be ideal motivation!

I've not even ridden a 10 yet! If I have a decent go at this and get close to your distance, then I'll happily challenge you in to a head to head in a future year

[eck]

My last (so far) attempt in 2013 at the 24, I did just 3k short of the magic 600. My (late and ex) father-in-law asked why I just couldn't have kept going for another ten minutes. 

[Bobby]

The journey has started - instead of going to bed I just popped out and rode the didcot Phoenix H10/17r TT route.  That's my first time riding a 10, TBH I'm just pleased to be under 30 mins 

Positive
Given how windy it is out there, that I don't have many miles in the legs, had no HRM or bike computer to see my effort on, that I didn't know exactly where the end was to push, that I was wearing a flappy gilet, I'm recovering from a cold, didn't warm up, and that I was on my audax steed without even blowing up my tyres properly I'm chuffed to get 29:16

Negative
Then I notice on strava that I'm 350 out of 363 - hummm, long way to go...