Author Topic: Colleague's leg broken in bike / car collision  (Read 3634 times)

Wowbagger

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Colleague's leg broken in bike / car collision
« on: 21 October, 2008, 01:51:58 pm »
The woman in whose classroom I teach on a Tuesday had her leg broken last week in a collision in which the combined speed of the car and the bike were not much more than 0 mph. It happened on a 20mph one-way street with contraflow cycle lane. The car coming the other way cut the corner, veering across the cycle lane. Cyclist and driver both braked, realising a collision was inevitable, and the speed was so low that the cyclist remained upright on her right leg with her left leg shattered beneath her. A couple of pedestrians held her up and removed the bike, giving her something to sit on, and the ambulance took her away.

It was discovered that the severity of the fracture was as a result of osteoporosis. She's still in hospital, having had several operations and awaiting a skin graft because of the damage the bones did when they snapped.

The bike was undamaged.

It was the cyclist's birthday.
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Thor

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Re: Colleague's leg broken in bike / car collision
« Reply #1 on: 21 October, 2008, 01:54:49 pm »
Ouch.  Nasty.  Sympathy to her.

Helluva way to find out you've got osteporosis - but there are probably worse ways and now at least they can try to do something about it.
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Wowbagger

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Re: Colleague's leg broken in bike / car collision
« Reply #2 on: 21 October, 2008, 01:55:53 pm »
Ouch.  Nasty.  Sympathy to her.

Helluva way to find out you've got osteporosis - but there are probably worse ways and now at least they can try to do something about it.

I'm not surprised by the osteoporosis. The poor woman is about 5' 4" but I'd say no more than 6 stones in weight.
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Re: Colleague's leg broken in bike / car collision
« Reply #3 on: 21 October, 2008, 01:56:04 pm »
Oh man - the poor thing! I hope she recovers as well as possible - it does sound nasty.

Regulator

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Re: Colleague's leg broken in bike / car collision
« Reply #4 on: 21 October, 2008, 02:02:09 pm »
Ouch!  Not a nice way yo find out that you have osteoporosis - but with luck she'll get some remedial treatment.

Still, I hope that the driver gets treated appropriately.  The fact that the cyclist had an underlying medical condition may be used as a 'get out' clause from any criminal or civil proceedings.
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FatBloke

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Re: Colleague's leg broken in bike / car collision
« Reply #5 on: 21 October, 2008, 02:04:08 pm »
Ouch!
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Re: Colleague's leg broken in bike / car collision
« Reply #6 on: 21 October, 2008, 02:34:01 pm »
Ouch!  Not a nice way yo find out that you have osteoporosis - but with luck she'll get some remedial treatment.

Still, I hope that the driver gets treated appropriately.  The fact that the cyclist had an underlying medical condition may be used as a 'get out' clause from any criminal or civil proceedings.

Why? If I hit you and you are driving a ferrari can I claim that you should have been driving a mini instead and pay for a mini?

If the driver had a legitimate expectation of being able to hit someone with a car without causing damage, then he might have a case. As it is he is surely liable.. (Based on the report above).

..d
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Regulator

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Re: Colleague's leg broken in bike / car collision
« Reply #7 on: 21 October, 2008, 02:37:47 pm »
Ouch!  Not a nice way yo find out that you have osteoporosis - but with luck she'll get some remedial treatment.

Still, I hope that the driver gets treated appropriately.  The fact that the cyclist had an underlying medical condition may be used as a 'get out' clause from any criminal or civil proceedings.

Why? If I hit you and you are driving a ferrari can I claim that you should have been driving a mini instead and pay for a mini?

If the driver had a legitimate expectation of being able to hit someone with a car without causing damage, then he might have a case. As it is he is surely liable.. (Based on the report above).

..d


The argument will be made (I am willing to place money upon it) that her injuries would not have been as severe if she did not have an underlying medical condition (i.e. osteoporosis).  I've heard of it happening before - indeed, in my own case the driver's insurers tried to reduce the damages paid to me for a shattered shoulder on the basis that I had dislocated the shoulder about 10 years before (and despite the fact there had been a full recovery from that dislocation).

Don't forget that any excuse will be sought to avoid blaming the driver for being in the wrong place (i.e. the cycle lane) and driving inappropriately.  In such incidents, it is not uncommon for the inncoent victim to be blamed...
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andygates

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Re: Colleague's leg broken in bike / car collision
« Reply #8 on: 21 October, 2008, 03:55:55 pm »
IIRC, there's precedent in some murder case, where a guy was knocked down in a minor fight but happened to have an eggshell skull and died. 

The precedent is that you can't use "I didn't know she was fragile" as an excuse; you shouldn't have hit them and have no way of knowing the consequences, so shut up and take your lumps.
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Julian

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Re: Colleague's leg broken in bike / car collision
« Reply #9 on: 21 October, 2008, 04:01:23 pm »
IIRC, there's precedent in some murder case, where a guy was knocked down in a minor fight but happened to have an eggshell skull and died. 

The precedent is that you can't use "I didn't know she was fragile" as an excuse; you shouldn't have hit them and have no way of knowing the consequences, so shut up and take your lumps.

That's in a criminal case.  Criminally, the driver is liable for whatever injury results - you take your victim as you find them.

Civilly, Regulator's right.  Assuming that there are no charges against the driver and it's down to a civil insurance claim, they could theoretically argue that she would only have sustained bruises if it hadn't been for the osteoporosis and try to reduce the damages.

David Martin

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Re: Colleague's leg broken in bike / car collision
« Reply #10 on: 21 October, 2008, 05:44:26 pm »
IIRC, there's precedent in some murder case, where a guy was knocked down in a minor fight but happened to have an eggshell skull and died. 

The precedent is that you can't use "I didn't know she was fragile" as an excuse; you shouldn't have hit them and have no way of knowing the consequences, so shut up and take your lumps.

That's in a criminal case.  Criminally, the driver is liable for whatever injury results - you take your victim as you find them.

Civilly, Regulator's right.  Assuming that there are no charges against the driver and it's down to a civil insurance claim, they could theoretically argue that she would only have sustained bruises if it hadn't been for the osteoporosis and try to reduce the damages.

And I would argue that the breaking of the legs was solely due to the impact, as she wouldn't have spontaneously shattered her leg just riding along.

..d
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

clarion

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Re: Colleague's leg broken in bike / car collision
« Reply #11 on: 21 October, 2008, 05:52:48 pm »
Probably true, David, but I know that what Reg says happens.
Getting there...

Re: Colleague's leg broken in bike / car collision
« Reply #12 on: 21 October, 2008, 06:10:40 pm »
... It happened on a 20mph one-way street with contraflow cycle lane. The car coming the other way cut the corner, veering across the cycle lane. ...

 >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(   contraflow cycle lane?  I've expressed my feelings before, so instead of posting I may go out for a long walk to calm down. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(




I hope the cyclist recovers fully and quickly.

hellymedic

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Re: Colleague's leg broken in bike / car collision
« Reply #13 on: 21 October, 2008, 06:58:01 pm »
IIRC, there's precedent in some murder case, where a guy was knocked down in a minor fight but happened to have an eggshell skull and died. 

The precedent is that you can't use "I didn't know she was fragile" as an excuse; you shouldn't have hit them and have no way of knowing the consequences, so shut up and take your lumps.

I think the case was Blair Peach, Anti-Nazi League and Police in Red Lion Square around 1979 BICBW...

[Edit] It was Southall. Police clashed with ANL and long inquest gave verdict of misadventure.

rower40

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Re: Colleague's leg broken in bike / car collision
« Reply #14 on: 21 October, 2008, 09:02:00 pm »
Please pass on a great big handful or two of Sympathy + Get-Well-Soon.  From someone who has seen the inside of an ambulance after two separate incidents.

Good Luck with the recovery.
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clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Colleague's leg broken in bike / car collision
« Reply #15 on: 21 October, 2008, 09:10:10 pm »
Oh yes, goodness me I'm sorry.  My best wishes to your colleague, Wow.  I know that osteoporosis can turn an impact into a complex multiple fracture but I hope she recovers soon.
Getting there...

Biggsy

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Re: Colleague's leg broken in bike / car collision
« Reply #16 on: 21 October, 2008, 10:14:19 pm »
The victim is entitled to compensation for the suffering and expense caused by the incident and the injury, regardless of their medical condition beforehand, and that is what they claim.  The insurers may argue all sorts of things at first, but will pay out the proper amount once convinced that the claimant would get that amount if they sued.

There are books of case history for various injuries - which insurers as well as lawyers have access to.  It is based on injury, not type of incident.  It's not £x for a dooring, and £y for reversing into someone, etc.  That is not how it works.  It is basically £x for a broken leg, and £y for a broken arm, etc.
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Regulator

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Re: Colleague's leg broken in bike / car collision
« Reply #17 on: 21 October, 2008, 11:08:45 pm »
The victim is entitled to compensation for the suffering and expense caused by the incident and the injury, regardless of their medical condition beforehand, and that is what they claim.  The insurers may argue all sorts of things at first, but will pay out the proper amount once convinced that the claimant would get that amount if they sued.

There are books of case history for various injuries - which insurers as well as lawyers have access to.  It is based on injury, not type of incident.  It's not £x for a dooring, and £y for reversing into someone, etc.  That is not how it works.  It is basically £x for a broken leg, and £y for a broken arm, etc.

I think you are referring to the 'quantam of damages'  (Kemp & Kemp being the most famous).  However, damages can be reduced if a pre-existing condition can be shown to have contributed to the injuries - as Liz has already pointed out.
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Biggsy

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Re: Colleague's leg broken in bike / car collision
« Reply #18 on: 21 October, 2008, 11:50:43 pm »
Whether or not that is true in law (and I'm shocked if it is true), it does not always work like that in practice, fortunately.

Because of pre-existing conditions, my Mum had complications in her leg from an incident that would have left a younger and fitter person with lesser injuries.  She received full compensation for all the complications from the driver's insurance company.  They didn't even query the pre-existing conditions, let alone offer less because of them.
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Re: Colleague's leg broken in bike / car collision
« Reply #19 on: 22 October, 2008, 12:07:12 am »
Whether or not that is true in law (and I'm shocked if it is true), it does not always work like that in practice, fortunately.

...


When I had a legit claim of serious shoulder injury the insurers claimed it was only serious due to a pre-existing medical condition, and the injury received was simply a repeat of a previous injury.  They wanted to reduce damages severely, if not completely.

As it was my doctor notes simply stated "pain in shoulder" (following being knocked off my bike ::-)).   The previous injuries were very very minor - I recall getting one 50p sized bruise and having stiffness for a couple of days (oooo errr missus).  Had it not been for the fact I was collecting a prescription for Mrs Nutty I wouldn't have bothered seeing the doctor.  As it was I asked if they had a free appointment for the morning if I woke up in pain, and they said that the doctor was free and I might as well walk straight in.

I managed to get the claim of reduced damages thrown out by getting the doctor to confirm the shoulder referred to in the notes was the right shoulder, whereas this claim was for the left.



I rarely went down the doctors prior to that, but am now very reluctant to go in case anything goes on my notes that I may regret at a later date.

I know the standard advice on here post any accident is to get the injuries documented, but for myself I'll only get the injuries documented if they're major enough that the nice men in white coats carted me off to A&E.

hellymedic

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Re: Colleague's leg broken in bike / car collision
« Reply #20 on: 22 October, 2008, 01:15:35 am »
They were in green suits when I last looked. If you think they're in white coats, you certainly need a doctor!  ;D ;D ;D

Regulator

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Re: Colleague's leg broken in bike / car collision
« Reply #21 on: 22 October, 2008, 07:40:43 am »
They were in green suits when I last looked. If you think they're in white coats, you certainly need a doctor!  ;D ;D ;D


This is Nutty - they probably were men in white coats.  Nice of them to let him think he was going to A&E though...  ;)


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I completely agree with Reg.

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Jaded

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Re: Colleague's leg broken in bike / car collision
« Reply #22 on: 22 October, 2008, 08:03:41 am »
If she is off work though the injury (seems likely) then

a) she should claim any loss of earnings beyond sick pay
b) she should see if her employers have any policies on them claiming back sick pay paid from the driver
It is simpler than it looks.

Re: Colleague's leg broken in bike / car collision
« Reply #23 on: 22 October, 2008, 08:12:18 am »
This is Nutty - they probably were men in white coats.  Nice of them to let him think he was going to A&E though...  ;)

It avoids them having to get out the jacket with the extra long adjustable sleeves.
Actually, it is rocket science.
 

Regulator

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Re: Colleague's leg broken in bike / car collision
« Reply #24 on: 22 October, 2008, 08:15:09 am »
This is Nutty - they probably were men in white coats.  Nice of them to let him think he was going to A&E though...  ;)

It avoids them having to get out the jacket with the extra long adjustable sleeves.

Nutty is convinced that Southend General's A&E has padded walls and bars on the small windows...
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