Author Topic: Tandem thoughts  (Read 12191 times)

Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #25 on: 27 January, 2013, 06:07:18 pm »
Size difference- no problem. We are an inch taller than you- Chris is 5'11" and I'm 5'3". I wouldn't want to go on the front, not because I'm a less strong rider (that's very much open to debate) but because I just don't have the upper body strength to hold him. That's the biggest difference in driving a tandem than a solo- the captain needs upper body strength that you can get away without having on a solo. The heavier your stoker the more true this is.
I have had all my children (now 14-20) and my mum on the back of my tandem (not all at once!) and the lighter they are the easier it is to manage- not while you're riding so much, but slow speed setting off and turns and stopping. Chris also finds slow speed turns (especially to the right) hard work with my massive bulk on the back. This is compensated by my being a huge engine on the flat.

Most couples get a tandem to even out the differences in their pace. That's less true for us than many- we rode together on solo bikes a lot before we were a couple, we naturally ride at a very similar pace. We're much faster on the tandem than we are on solos, on the flat, and steady climbs are OK. Long descents are brilliant (60+kph). Choppy terrain is less good, but that's more to do with our weight than tandeming per se.



Tandems are also easier to control with the lightest person on the back because of the leverage effect; the further the weight is from the steering axis the more effect it has. The more effect it has, the more effort you put into controlling the beast rather than making it go but the steadiness of your partner when seated can offset this a lot. I found a remarkablr difference putting camping gear in a trailer rather than on the tandem, for the same reason (also due to the geometry of a pre-war tandem).
Always riding with the same partner makes a huge difference, as does getting the riding positions to your satisfaction (not normally a problem but I currently pilot for a visually-handicapped club with club tandems, rarely the same machine or partner between outings).
It is much easier to start with one partner weaker than the other. The weaker partner will develope accomodating the style of the stronger rider, where two strong riders will frequently find their styles conflicting. Two strong riders that don't match will often be slower than a less powerful combination that has styles matched.
Always remember that the person on the back has her hands completely free to do as she pleases and the person on the front is powerless! (and 4yr olds are as bad as the big girls DAHIK)

jogler

  • mojo operandi
Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #26 on: 27 January, 2013, 06:23:52 pm »


Always riding with the same partner makes a huge difference, as does getting the riding positions to your satisfaction (not normally a problem but I currently pilot for a visually-handicapped club with club tandems, rarely the same machine or partner between outings).


I've wanted to do this for a while but had no success in finding anyone.

Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #27 on: 27 January, 2013, 08:32:11 pm »


Always riding with the same partner makes a huge difference, as does getting the riding positions to your satisfaction (not normally a problem but I currently pilot for a visually-handicapped club with club tandems, rarely the same machine or partner between outings).


I've wanted to do this for a while but had no success in finding anyone.

I am in France so not much help. The Tandem Club (UK) have (or had) a person devoted to matching up tandems and visually handicapped stokers; I am sure that the person responsable had a short page on the TC website. Have you tried there?
I love tandems and have a completely non-cycling wife. All my recent stokers have been visually handicapped or my daughters.

jogler

  • mojo operandi
Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #28 on: 27 January, 2013, 09:04:09 pm »
I'm exchanging details with "Charlotte's Tandems"

I know of & tried The Tandem Club a few years ago when I was a member.

Thanks.

I am in France so not much help. The Tandem Club (UK) have (or had) a person devoted to matching up tandems and visually handicapped stokers; I am sure that the person responsable had a short page on the TC website.

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #29 on: 28 January, 2013, 10:01:48 am »
Wow, this thread has transformed since i last had look.

Thanks for the welcome  and thanks all for the words of advice :thumbsup:

Yes we have discussed it - I think she thinks it's a little bit amusing and whacky but is quite happy to have a go. When the weather picks up we're going to hire one from Pedal Power here in Cardiff and see what we think.

Also good to hear about the flip side.  We do most things together and have similar interests so hopefully we're OK.  We'll definitely try before we buy anyway.
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #30 on: 28 January, 2013, 08:45:14 pm »
I'm exchanging details with "Charlotte's Tandems"

I know of & tried The Tandem Club a few years ago when I was a member.

Thanks.

I am in France so not much help. The Tandem Club (UK) have (or had) a person devoted to matching up tandems and visually handicapped stokers; I am sure that the person responsable had a short page on the TC website.

You could also get in touch with visually-handicapped associations and handisport clubs in your area. It is sometimes surprising how little communication there is between different clubs with similar objectives.

Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #31 on: 04 February, 2013, 01:05:50 pm »
The wife and I first bought a tandem back in the nineties as a way to spend a little more time together (as she was a cycling widow) at the weekends. The fact that you can place two riders of significantly different fitness levels and who both can get equal pleasure from a ride is what still sells it to us almost 15 years later. We often ride 100k Audax events and yes I do sometimes get frustrated with our comparative lack of speed (especially uphill) compared to many solo riders however I balance this with the fact that I can spend my whole weekend endulging in my sport due to the fact the wife is accompanying me for at least half of it. We have also completed the E2E as an extended 25th wedding anniversary holiday on the tandem which was far more enjoyable than if we had attempted to ride together on solos. Dont get me wrong I enjoy my solo riding as much as the next man however if you are looking for a way to share your hobby with another individual of unequal ability a tandem is the perfect solution.

I hope you get one and maybe you will someday join us a a tandem club regional ride.

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #32 on: 04 February, 2013, 01:16:18 pm »
That's a nice tale.  I hope so too.  :)  The weather is now starting to cheer up and the days are beginning to lengthen - I've talked her into a ride next weekend, my plan is to stop off at the tandem hire place and give it a go if the weather holds up.
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #33 on: 04 February, 2013, 03:30:54 pm »
Simonp and I have had our tandem for a year now so I can share what I've found so far.

The good bits are :

Staying together on the road (Simon usually rides fixed so he is faster uphill but slower downhill than me on solos so riding together is a PITA in the hilly terrain around Bristol).

More social, you can generally always hear each other to chat rather than needing to pull alongside.

Navigation in our case made easier by having twin Garmins on the bike. I actually have mine really so it gives me data to look at on the back, but I can also keep an eye on where the next turn is etc. Some stokers keep map/ route sheet on pilots back.

Your stoker can pass you food, swap water bottles over for you and give you a back massage.

Stokers can't see the road ahead so well, but we can look at scenery and over hedges and walls plus chat to other riders more easily than on a solo bike.

The tricky bits are:

Sorting out starting and stopping, particularly if you are both clipless which if you plan to ride 100k+ I think would be a good idea. It is very much easier for the stoker to remain clipped in for short stops and rotate the pedals around for you to your preferred starting position being careful not to whack you on the shins with any pedals in the process. If you are heavier and stronger than your stoker it should be fairly easy for you to hold the bike up like this with her clipped in but requires her to have total faith in you. You need an emergency 'bail' command for if you need her to unclip and out a foot down e.g. when you suddenly need to stop on a very steep climb or your chain snaps or something. I can imagine there is much more room for error with this kind of coordination if your wife is a much less experienced cyclist than you.

Cadence preferences. I am a bit of a grinder whereas Simon more of a spinner so I sometimes find his cadence a bit tiring. I've tried to increase my natural cadence to be a better match and he tries to use a silty higher gear for my sake. It would be way easier if you both had similar cadences anyway.

Arse comfort. On a solo bike I can take the weight off pressure points like my arse by putting more power through the pedals, or freewheeling for a bit. On the tandem I am at the mercy of the pilot who might not be wanting to freewheel so much (my pilot tends to forget he has a freewheel at all sometimes!) or has the cadence so high I find I can't 'catch up' with e pedal stroke enough to take my weight through my feet so much. Add this to often a more upright riding position as a stoker and it is a recipe for more arse soreness. And then there are the bumps in the road the stoker can't see coming so can't 'brace' or get out of the saddle for unless the pilot calls it in plenty of time. We have a suspension seat post on the rear, but even with that I've needed to use a wider heavier Brooks saddle than on my solo bikes to get comfy. I did PBP on a solo in '11 without getting a significantly sore arse, but my first Audax on the tandem (the Gospel Pass 150k) I was begging Simon to freewheel while we were going uphill  ;D
It did get better with more tandem riding and we subsequently did an SR, including the BCM 600 and a 1000 mile tandem tour round France without me having significant problems. I can imagine a relatively new rider might have more issues than someone like me with a leather arse from doing lots of miles previously though. If you try it and she has problems like that make sure she knows it will get better in time with gradually increasing mileages and the right saddle.

I never had any trouble with my knees before riding a tandem. However the longer audaxers caused an issue that I'm still not 100% recovered from. I'm not the first stoker to find I have knee issues, so watch out for this. Changing my saddle fore-aft position wrt my pedals has helped. A pro bike fit could be your friend here, we probably should have got one or at least checked where my knee was with a plumb line before riding off into the distance!

Group riding can be a little bit tricky initially. By this I mean with groups not that skilled at group riding, such as can happen on CTC rides and large mass start Audaxes. Riders often overtake you uphill only to totally getting your way on the downhill that follows. Or worse they can force you to stop suddenly uphill or in the wrong gear which can make you want to strangle them. You may find yourself wanting to ferociously guard your hard-won momentum!

One other negative has been transporting it around. We ended up getting the expensive gas-lift rack for the roof of the car. We prefer to ride to the start of events or get trains, but it can be tricky to get it on some types of train. We managed to do an Easter arrow and get the train back from York to Somerset but we had to go via London not Birmingham and getting it reserved on the train was not that straightforward. Simon spoke to some guy from the train operator on the phone who asked him what a tandem was  :D We did make it home eventually though. On our trip to France we opted for the simpler option of just riding there (100 miles to Portsmouth, ferry to St Malo, then 200 miles to Niort for the Sem Fed). If you only want to do local events on your tandem then it won't bother you much, but otherwise buying racks and things is something to consider. The first rack I tried needed 4 people to lift the bike onto it  :facepalm:

If you and your wife like each other and want to spend as much time as possible together, then I would say go for it! Hope to see you on the road (we live in Axbridge and are often on Bristol area rides, we have a silver Orbit)  :thumbsup:

Panoramix

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  • Suus cuique crepitus bene olet
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Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #34 on: 04 February, 2013, 03:46:30 pm »
Although we've had a tandem for quite a few years now, I've never done big mileage like feline and her mileage in a year might be higher than our in half a decade  ;D. Nevertheless although Mrs P isn't the most confident cyclist, tandeming works great for us and it would probably be one of the last thing that we would sell off if we had to.

I think that Feline said it all on the pros and cons, the logistics is the hardest bit for us and the tandem is at the moment 50km away due to some bad weather at the wrong time! For the cadence bit I think that I am a better stoker since I started to ride fixed as it gave me the ability to grind which Mrs P prefers.

Although as a pilot,it is quite easy to scare your stoker so you need to earn his/her trust!
Chief cat entertainer.

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #35 on: 04 February, 2013, 04:04:38 pm »
Thanks both for the replies and advice.

I'm doing the Gospel Pass 150 k this month!  Solo though.  Chapeau for doing it on a Tandem  :thumbsup: I'm still not massively confident I can do it solo without a wee rest at some point.

Phil can already fall off quite readily with flat pedals, she had worked out to put her foot down at stops last I remember ::-) - I think we'll be avoiding clipless at the outset  ;D  Baby baby steps to begin.  I also suspect that 100 k+ isn't going to happen too soon, I would like to try a local 100 k though as a target.  Something like last weeks Jack and Grace Memorial...  If you're doing rides in the Bristol area you are certainly likely to see me around at some point, not on a tandem at first though I think :-)
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #36 on: 04 February, 2013, 04:13:16 pm »
It is very much easier for the stoker to remain clipped in for short stops
I'd disagree with this. I never stay clipped in. Depends what works for you.

Quote
Arse comfort. On a solo bike I can take the weight off pressure points like my arse by putting more power through the pedals, or freewheeling for a bit. On the tandem I am at the mercy of the pilot who might not be wanting to freewheel so much (my pilot tends to forget he has a freewheel at all sometimes!) or has the cadence so high I find I can't 'catch up' with e pedal stroke enough to take my weight through my feet so much. Add this to often a more upright riding position as a stoker and it is a recipe for more arse soreness. And then there are the bumps in the road the stoker can't see coming so can't 'brace' or get out of the saddle for unless the pilot calls it in plenty of time. We have a suspension seat post on the rear, but even with that I've needed to use a wider heavier Brooks saddle than on my solo bikes to get comfy. I did PBP on a solo in '11 without getting a significantly sore arse, but my first Audax on the tandem (the Gospel Pass 150k) I was begging Simon to freewheel while we were going uphill  ;D
There's elements of truth in this but I just ask- please can I fidget/stand. Apparently an in-line seatpost is less effective than a thudbuster type. As I've never compared I can't say- but the price of them makes me think I should MTFU. Unlike Feline I had significant issues post-PBP on my solo- but I did do it faster, so probably had less time off the bike. It's nothing new, and it currently takes about 450km before it's really bad.
Matching cadence is easier as we both ride fixed otherwise, but Chris gets carried away with the idea of gears and tries to spin up hills, something I can't really do, I end up just 'following' his pedals without giving any power. I have to tell him to change up a gear or two. He also isn't very good at easing off and letting me work, I have to keep reminding him. I think it's different if you're more unmatched, when I'm pilot-ing my children I don't really expect any power from them- when I get some it's a bonus!

Quote
I never had any trouble with my knees before riding a tandem. However the longer audaxers caused an issue that I'm still not 100% recovered from. I'm not the first stoker to find I have knee issues, so watch out for this. Changing my saddle fore-aft position wrt my pedals has helped. A pro bike fit could be your friend here, we probably should have got one or at least checked where my knee was with a plumb line before riding off into the distance!
This is no more true for tandems than any other bike. The Longstaff has me further forward than the Swallow did.. but I haven't had knee trouble, not since I broke my wrist... I'm getting sore wrists at the moment, and I think that's because I'm further forward of the cranks than I'm used to. Bike fit is increasingly important the longer the distances you cover. If you're doing social day rides fit is more forgiving.

Quote
Group riding can be a little bit tricky initially. By this I mean with groups not that skilled at group riding, such as can happen on CTC rides and large mass start Audaxes. Riders often overtake you uphill only to totally getting your way on the downhill that follows. Or worse they can force you to stop suddenly uphill or in the wrong gear which can make you want to strangle them. You may find yourself wanting to ferociously guard your hard-won momentum!
God yes. And cars! You struggle up a hill and then some selfish moron goes down the other side at 30mph, not leaving enough room to get past...
We struggle to keep pace with solo riders, too. It's fine on the flat(ish) where we just gather a train and let 'em tuck in, but on descents, they (mostly) just can't match us. Some solo riders get a bit, erm, snippy, at being outpaced by a tandem and ride really stupidly just to keep up/ahead of the tandem. I used to get this a bit on a solo, too. No one likes getting pwn3d by the fat bird.

Quote
One other negative has been transporting it around.
We can just about fit a tandem into Mr Smith's Volvo. We have a Helton rack (no power lift required) where the bike lies sideways and is very easy to lift on. It's not ideal though.. really, we'd like a van...
In some ways the logistics are easy. After all, you can ride with only one of you, and, if it all goes tits up one can stay with it while the other goes for rescue.  :facepalm:

Kim

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Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #37 on: 04 February, 2013, 04:22:28 pm »
Cadence preferences. I am a bit of a grinder whereas Simon more of a spinner so I sometimes find his cadence a bit tiring. I've tried to increase my natural cadence to be a better match and he tries to use a silty higher gear for my sake. It would be way easier if you both had similar cadences anyway.

This can be fudged a bit by changing the relative crank lengths, with shorter cranks being more comfortable at a higher cadence.  'Too short' cranks are much easier to tolerate than 'too long' cranks, so this will probably mean giving the grinder shorter ones rather than lengthening those of the spinner.

Quote
Group riding can be a little bit tricky initially. By this I mean with groups not that skilled at group riding, such as can happen on CTC rides and large mass start Audaxes. Riders often overtake you uphill only to totally getting your way on the downhill that follows. Or worse they can force you to stop suddenly uphill or in the wrong gear which can make you want to strangle them. You may find yourself wanting to ferociously guard your hard-won momentum!

All this applies equally well to recumbents, which have similar climbing/descending characteristics.  Inexperienced cyclists and fixie riders are the main problem here, so keep an eye on them, especially on the climbs where they're prone to slow down and wobble.  At least on a tandem you have less risk of being rear-ended by an invisible wheelsucker.

Solo riders who are used to cycling with tandems/'bents will expect to play leapfrog with you on rolling hills.

Kim

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Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #38 on: 04 February, 2013, 04:32:06 pm »
It is very much easier for the stoker to remain clipped in for short stops
I'd disagree with this. I never stay clipped in. Depends what works for you.

I think how well the staying-clipped-in thing works depends a lot on the captain's height and arm strength, and probably the geometry of the bike, as well as the more obvious things like the weight of the stoker and how much grip the captain's shoes have on a given road surface.  I can't seem to manage it.

Stoker putting their foot down is a perfectly valid method, and needn't be difficult once you've had some practice.  It's trickier if you have different preferred feet...

Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #39 on: 04 February, 2013, 05:00:57 pm »
The bottom fondling is the best bit about being up front!


But there is a counter-side to this - the dig in the back when you do something the stoker didn't appreciate!  Like failing to negotiate a tiny pothole that you might not have bothered about on your solo.  Road imperfections are much more noticeable to the stoker on a tandem.  I'm not sure whether this is a lack of anticipation (because they cannot see the road ahead very easily) or the geometry.  We have reduced the problem with a decent suspension post at the back.

Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #40 on: 04 February, 2013, 05:01:07 pm »
It is very much easier for the stoker to remain clipped in for short stops
I'd disagree with this. I never stay clipped in. Depends what works for you.

I think how well the staying-clipped-in thing works depends a lot on the captain's height and arm strength, and probably the geometry of the bike, as well as the more obvious things like the weight of the stoker and how much grip the captain's shoes have on a given road surface.  I can't seem to manage it.

Stoker putting their foot down is a perfectly valid method, and needn't be difficult once you've had some practice.  It's trickier if you have different preferred feet...

You hit the nail on the head I think, I am a freaky right foot down cyclist and Simon is more normal and puts his left foot down. It's incredibly difficult to change your natural tendency, I've tried and I can't!

Panoramix

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    • Some routes
Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #41 on: 04 February, 2013, 05:08:41 pm »
I also suspect that 100 k+ isn't going to happen too soon, I would like to try a local 100 k though as a target.  Something like last weeks Jack and Grace Memorial...  If you're doing rides in the Bristol area you are certainly likely to see me around at some point, not on a tandem at first though I think :-)

At the end, we used to ride the tasty cheddar most years. It's probably a bit hilly for a tandem, but is a nice ride. Don't tell your stoker at the last control that it's mostly downhill from this point as she might struggle to control her emotions when the last significant hill comes ;) Don't ask me how I know this.   ::-)
Chief cat entertainer.

Kim

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Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #42 on: 04 February, 2013, 05:28:35 pm »
Stoker putting their foot down is a perfectly valid method, and needn't be difficult once you've had some practice.  It's trickier if you have different preferred feet...

You hit the nail on the head I think, I am a freaky right foot down cyclist and Simon is more normal and puts his left foot down. It's incredibly difficult to change your natural tendency, I've tried and I can't!

I'm also a right-footian, though that's a (hard) learned behaviour to reduce stress on that knee, so I can be reasonably ambifootrous for stoking purposes.  As captain it's more awkward, as I'll tend to stop with my right foot down without thinking if I get distracted by traffic or whatever.

Wowbagger

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Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #43 on: 04 February, 2013, 05:33:21 pm »
Jan is a natural righ-foot-down but I'm a left. She has been forced to adapt to my style.  ;)

Neither of us clips in on the tandem any more. When we did, I found it very difficult to support Jan's weight, largely because she has the seatpost so high. I find it easier to support heavier riders with shorter legs.
Quote from: Dez
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Chris S

Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #44 on: 04 February, 2013, 05:34:01 pm »
The Swallow was too big for me. I couldn't spread my legs enough to hold boab's weight - the stand-over height didn't permit it without me castrating myself on the top-tube. In any case, as we're both fixers on solos, we both just kind of fell in with the fixer method of setting off - lead with the clipped in leg, and clip into the following pedal as it comes round - using the lead pedal as a step up onto the saddle. TBH we simply can't see any advantage in the stoker staying in place.

As for slow traffic on downhills - it is a nuisance. We've found a Big Fuck Off Bell helps clear the path of cyclists, but this is less effective on motorised traffic. The most annoying instance was being overtaken by a 4x4 + horse trailer at the top of a long swooping descent, which then proceeded to descend at 20mph  >:(.

We quite like collecting a little possee of solos. If we're feeling playful (and only if it's flat, mind), we start to wind up the speed to see how long they can hold on. If there's a headwind (2012 National 400 anyone?) a tandem is very popular.

When we rode Rocco's Bog Standard 500 last year with a several of soloists who are generally faster than us, we fell into a pattern of falling well behind on the climbs (esp in Wales when I was having a pre-dinner mardy time) only to catch the bunch up on the way down the other side. On the second day, I think we were getting ahead on the descents, and had to hold back to let them catch up.

We're a heavy team (though becoming less so!) - and gravity loves us.

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #45 on: 04 February, 2013, 05:48:54 pm »
As for slow traffic on downhills - it is a nuisance. We've found a Big Fuck Off Bell helps clear the path of cyclists, but this is less effective on motorised traffic. The most annoying instance was being overtaken by a 4x4 + horse trailer at the top of a long swooping descent, which then proceeded to descend at 20mph  >:(.

Ah yes, that old chestnut - been there got the tee-shirt on many a solo ride so far.  It's even more annoying that the close overtake-just before the stationary queue ahead manoeuvre.  Not really restricited to tandem riding though is it?
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #46 on: 04 February, 2013, 05:51:05 pm »
The bottom fondling is the best bit about being up front!


But there is a counter-side to this - the dig in the back when you do something the stoker didn't appreciate!  Like failing to negotiate a tiny pothole that you might not have bothered about on your solo.  Road imperfections are much more noticeable to the stoker on a tandem.  I'm not sure whether this is a lack of anticipation (because they cannot see the road ahead very easily) or the geometry.  We have reduced the problem with a decent suspension post at the back.
I need more layback than our current suspension seatpost can give, and I'm toying with getting rid. The more tandeming we do, the less I need him to call stuff. He mostly doesn't bother with bumps after an initial enthusiasm (the first 30k  ::-) ) but if he stands there's enough time for me to see/feel he's doing it and follow suit.
When you say 'a decent suspension post' do you mean this kinda thing?

Mine is more like this:


I have heard that you don't think there's much give in your suspension seatpost until you try and do without it...

As for slow traffic on downhills - it is a nuisance. We've found a Big Fuck Off Bell helps clear the path of cyclists, but this is less effective on motorised traffic. The most annoying instance was being overtaken by a 4x4 + horse trailer at the top of a long swooping descent, which then proceeded to descend at 20mph  >:(.

Ah yes, that old chestnut - been there got the tee-shirt on many a solo ride so far.  It's even more annoying that the close overtake-just before the stationary queue ahead manoeuvre.  Not really restricited to tandem riding though is it?
No. But tandem descents are considerably faster than your average solo descent. Just you wait!

Chris S

Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #47 on: 04 February, 2013, 05:51:37 pm »
Not really restricited to tandem riding though is it?

Definitely not, but it's easier to filter on a solo, than on a tandem. I'm also less inclined to take liberties - as there's someone else's welfare at stake, not just mine.

Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #48 on: 04 February, 2013, 06:00:34 pm »
Not really restricited to tandem riding though is it?

Definitely not, but it's easier to filter on a solo, than on a tandem. I'm also less inclined to take liberties - as there's someone else 's welfare at stake, not just mine. screaming in my ears to slow down/watch out/stop it
FTFY

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Tandem thoughts
« Reply #49 on: 04 February, 2013, 06:04:03 pm »
 ;D  Fair enough  :thumbsup:
It's a reverse Elvis thing.