Author Topic: Volcano Grounds 'Planes  (Read 53333 times)

Re: Volcano Grounds 'Planes
« Reply #525 on: 23 April, 2010, 01:42:39 pm »
Did Ryanair pay their pilots/cabin crew whilst the planes where grounded?

Whether or not they get paid in such a situation depends on the individual employment contracts.

They may lose bonus/commission/allowance type payments but they can't stop paying base salary.

Why do you ask?
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Volcano Grounds 'Planes
« Reply #526 on: 23 April, 2010, 02:44:27 pm »
He knew the legislation but chose to gamble on the total shutdown event not happening. He's profited from the resulting low prices and higher volumes for years. So, no, he has no right to be pissed off that his profitable gamble has come to an end.
Absolutely.

He's in the same position as someone who chooses not to buy insurance, gambling that the money saved in premiums will pay for itself in the long run. Given Ryanair's profits, I reckon he's still ahead on the deal. He has no grounds for complaint. His whining is just a ploy to make more profit, by offloading some of his risks.

The insurers plea that covering risks such as this is unaffordable is also specious. They routinely cover bigger risks. Personally, I'd happily forgo insurance for many of the high-frequency small payout risks they do cover for, in exchange for better coverage of low-frequency expensive things. From what little I know of their operations, I suspect a realistic premium for such insurance would be lower, not higher, than current travel policies.
"A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Type-Writer Girl, 1897

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Volcano Grounds 'Planes
« Reply #527 on: 24 April, 2010, 02:09:44 pm »
Jaded, you patently have little or no knowledge of the airline industry, and you seem unwilling to learn. The European legislation that Ryanair (and all other European airlines) are objecting to is very recent, and was framed to counter a perceived practise of airlines overbooking flights without penalty. It was not intended to cater for the current regulator-imposed stoppage, for which no insurance cover is available. Even under this ill-framed legislation, there is NO right of compensation, simply a right of recompense for 'reasonable' expenditure. Leaving Ryanair out of the equation for the moment (and Frenchie's Indie link gives the story very well), all the major airlines have done their very best to comply with the legislation - and certainly our customers are, in the vast majority, very thankful for that. However, that doesn't alter the fact that the legislation is unfair, and has no parallel for any other industry.

Further, your contention that the airlines would have continued flying regardless shows both an ignorance of the safety culture if the industry, and a wilfull disregard of its safety record. If you want to tell us that the industry is casual about safety, show me your evidence.

There are many here who wish to use this episode to soapbox their distaste for an industry which they see as incompatible with their environmental views. That's fair enough, but please try and couch your arguments in fact, not prejudice and assumption.   

Jaded

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Re: Volcano Grounds 'Planes
« Reply #528 on: 24 April, 2010, 02:26:08 pm »

Further, your contention that the airlines would have continued flying regardless shows both an ignorance of the safety culture if the industry, and a wilfull disregard of its safety record. If you want to tell us that the industry is casual about safety, show me your evidence.


You missed the triple question mark after my point. Which was that the implication of what you were saying (that it wasn't the airlines fault that they were grounded) was that they would have carried on flying. If they wouldn't, when would they have flown again - and how much would this have differed from what actually happened?

I can certainly understand you getting exercised about the situation, given what you do. I don't have an issue with the industry per-se. I do believe that ridiculously low fares are wrong.
It is simpler than it looks.

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Volcano Grounds 'Planes
« Reply #529 on: 24 April, 2010, 02:39:05 pm »
Ok, I apologise if I misunderstood you!

Really low fares piss me off too. I want my company to make a decent profit in which I can share. I resent the dice to the bottom of the market that Ryanair represents, and I have grave doubts about it on many levels. But that's a different topic for a different thread.

To your point about how we'd have resumed; we'd have done it as we did after Pinatubo and Mt St Helens (among many others), by applying sensible no-fly zones proportionate to the risk, in consultation with manufacturers, other airlines, regulators and safety agencies. Imposition and precipitate action not backed by evidence or experience would have been avoided - and, being self-imposed restrictions, they would havebeen easier to adjust as circumstances changed, and there would have been no arguments about protecting stranded passengers!     

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Volcano Grounds 'Planes
« Reply #530 on: 04 May, 2010, 07:41:14 am »
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

Re: Volcano Grounds 'Planes
« Reply #531 on: 04 May, 2010, 07:49:11 am »
Yes, and looking at the most recent VAAC plots, it's projected to slowly travel Eastward across the UK, so it wouldn't surprise me to see all the major UK airports closed again. :-\
Actually, it is rocket science.
 

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Volcano Grounds 'Planes
« Reply #532 on: 04 May, 2010, 07:54:58 am »
Yes, and looking at the most recent VAAC plots, it's projected to slowly travel Eastward across the UK, so it wouldn't surprise me to see all the major UK airports closed again. :-\

...and blessed peace descending once again.
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

border-rider

Re: Volcano Grounds 'Planes
« Reply #533 on: 04 May, 2010, 08:08:24 am »
Oh well

Helsinki's not a bad place to be stuck - and at least I have my running shoes, and nothing too desperate to be back in the UK for :)

Got away with Rome last week, which was the more important one to get to/from

edit: might have to buy some swimming trunks to make use of the hotel pool though.  Damn.

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Volcano Grounds 'Planes
« Reply #534 on: 04 May, 2010, 08:15:03 am »
Hmmm, what are the odds I get out of Furryboot toon ok this morning and then get stuck in Heathrow?
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

PaulF

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Re: Volcano Grounds 'Planes
« Reply #535 on: 04 May, 2010, 08:20:21 am »
Well I took the train to Belgium but am due to fly home. Best get a Eurostar reservation sorted when I get to the office.

Re: Volcano Grounds 'Planes
« Reply #536 on: 04 May, 2010, 01:30:47 pm »
Cycle and recycle.   SS Wilson

Re: Volcano Grounds 'Planes
« Reply #537 on: 04 May, 2010, 05:48:41 pm »
Due to fly to Scotland tomorrow... Hummm...
Frenchie - Train à Grande Vitesse

Andrij

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Re: Volcano Grounds 'Planes
« Reply #538 on: 04 May, 2010, 06:36:23 pm »
Due to fly to Scotland tomorrow... Hummm...

Following on from some of the video links you've posted, you should be fine tomorrow.  As long as your plane stays at tree-top level.  ;)
 
;D  Andrij.  I pronounce you Complete and Utter GIT   :thumbsup:

Pingu

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Re: Volcano Grounds 'Planes
« Reply #539 on: 04 May, 2010, 09:27:03 pm »
Scottish and N Irish airspace to close in new ash risk

I suspect Mrs P got away OK, haven't heard from her yet.

Re: Volcano Grounds 'Planes
« Reply #540 on: 04 May, 2010, 09:44:32 pm »
Due to fly to Scotland tomorrow... Hummm...

Following on from some of the video links you've posted, you should be fine tomorrow.  As long as your plane stays at tree-top level.  ;)
 


Civil gas turbines do not operate well at these sadly. But if the airspace is closed that consideration is not even worth mentioning...

Since my flight was due for departure at 07:05 heading for Scotland, with the CAA announcement of a short while ago, it means that I'm probably staying home and will miss my conference meetings. Grrr... [Interestingly my carrier has still not made any announcement!]
Frenchie - Train à Grande Vitesse

David Martin

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Re: Volcano Grounds 'Planes
« Reply #541 on: 05 May, 2010, 12:37:19 am »
Heading anywhere nice? Which part of Scotland?
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Volcano Grounds 'Planes
« Reply #542 on: 05 May, 2010, 06:37:08 am »
Scottish airports will be closed today, with the exceptions of Edinburgh and Aberdeen and flights eastwards.
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

Re: Volcano Grounds 'Planes
« Reply #543 on: 05 May, 2010, 10:46:23 am »
Well my flight to Edin was cancelled. Only the <expletive> carrier could not type the flight number accurately on their website, which kept me busy longer than I ought to have been between 3:00 and 5:00. Incredible that under such circumstances they can't get that right (the flight number they mistyped made little sense according to their schedule, so I was pretty sure it was wrong, but...). I have kept the various copies of the website and will point that to them from work, if I have the time.

Hopefully my researcher will be okay coming back. Now he has to give two talks; he may as well as he is already there.
Frenchie - Train à Grande Vitesse

Pingu

  • Put away those fiery biscuits!
  • Mrs Pingu's domestique
    • the Igloo
Re: Volcano Grounds 'Planes
« Reply #544 on: 05 May, 2010, 02:42:38 pm »
Edinburgh now closed.

Re: Volcano Grounds 'Planes
« Reply #545 on: 05 May, 2010, 07:09:53 pm »
Tomorrow the mission is to bring the troops back from Edin.
Frenchie - Train à Grande Vitesse