Volcano Grounds 'Planes

[Jaded]

Why should there be plans to get people home faster? Who should pay? Should there also be plans to take people on holidays they have booked?


Which areas would be covered? Northern Europe, the US, or father afield?

[TimO]

I suspect that generalised contingencies for closure of the entire UK airspace may not be a lot of use.  Exactly what you do to deal with it would depend a lot on why the airspace had closed.

On the other hand, as TimC says, better knowledge of what levels and types of ash should worry us, and modelling of the behaviour of the cloud and volcanoes would have helped.  I imagine a lot more funding will be available for this sort of research very shortly.

[nuttycyclist]

As all modes of travel overseas are private concerns why should the government have a contingency plan to cater for that?   If your car breaks down how do you make that essential journey?   If anybody should have contingency plans it should be the private concerns involved.

Contingency plans should be either with the individual, or the individual carriers.

e.g. if a railway track fails then the company will look good if they already have plans in place so that they can cater for their customers.  This then gives good customer satisfaction, rather than looking bad in the media when it all goes wrong.

Potentially an unbrella travel plan should be put in place, so that not all failed companies try to hire coaches from the same carrier, and so that many scenarios are catered for (closed airspace, disease infected countries with closed borders, etc), but if this does occur then the people responsible should do so at least cost (maybe via a collaboration scheme between companies rather than an appointed government department).

[2_Flat_Erics]

A plan does not need to cost much to make. It may cost millions to impliment if needed but not to plan.

As for who pays, thats simple it's the airlines and the passengers who pay. The taxpayer certainly should not pick up the bill (the airlines get enough taxpayers dosh as it is).

I am not a fan of flying and think that we should be doing everything we can to reduce the number of flights to a bare minimum. There is a lot to be said for the slower less polluting pace of life of the train and sea travel.

I was just surprised that no one seems to have thought that something like this could happen and made a few plans. Major shutdowns don't happen often but it's twice in 10 years now.

[Chris S]

I think the gubbinsment missed out on a monster pre-election PR boost.

They should have, in conjunction with Spanish authorities, airlines, and other vested interests, sent out a general announcement - "Stranded Brits - get yourselves to Santander, and we'll send a fuck off fleet of ferries/ships to get you FOC".

Hell - I'd almost have voted for them then...

Instead, they picked up a few hundred civvies and a whole bunch of troops, and left hundreds of others there by the quayside. Bet they won't vote labour

[Zoidburg]

It depends on the numbers involved.

Past a certain point and it stops being a commercial problem of private companies and becomes a humanitarian and civil emergency that is indeed the remit of the government when British subjects are involved.

It does not matter how they were stranded there, if the numbers are great enough there is a duty to act.

[Regulator]

It depends on the numbers involved.

Past a certain point and it stops being a commercial problem of private companies and becomes a humanitarian and civil emergency that is indeed the remit of the government when British subjects are involved.

It does not matter how they were stranded there, if the numbers are great enough there is a duty to act.

Yeah - but the gubbermint will still charge you for repatriation...

[Zoidburg]

It depends on the numbers involved.

Past a certain point and it stops being a commercial problem of private companies and becomes a humanitarian and civil emergency that is indeed the remit of the government when British subjects are involved.

It does not matter how they were stranded there, if the numbers are great enough there is a duty to act.

Yeah - but the gubbermint will still charge you for repatriation...

Good luck on this occasion then.

They have precisely bob hope of pulling that little trick off, too many people involved.

[Polar Bear]

But these people aren't in immediate danger.   It's not a question of life and liberty, nor is it a question of them being stuck for months.    

Just another pathetic excuse for those politically small-brained enough to blame the government.         

[Regulator]

It depends on the numbers involved.

Past a certain point and it stops being a commercial problem of private companies and becomes a humanitarian and civil emergency that is indeed the remit of the government when British subjects are involved.

It does not matter how they were stranded there, if the numbers are great enough there is a duty to act.

Yeah - but the gubbermint will still charge you for repatriation...

Good luck on this occasion then.

They have precisely bob hope of pulling that little trick off, too many people involved.

Not at all.  If they're shipping them back from Spain, they'll have been through the consulate.  The Government will have their passport and contact details, and they may have been required to sign an 'Undertaking to Repay' prior to embarkation.

[tom_e]

They should have, in conjunction with Spanish authorities, airlines, and other vested interests, sent out a general announcement - "Stranded Brits - get yourselves to Santander, and we'll send a fuck off fleet of ferries/ships to get you FOC".

Sounds impressive, but the actual capacity to move people isn't going to be a patch on the cross channel ferries.  They now appear to be up to speed and encouraging foot passengers to simply turn up at the port. 

"Stranded brits - get yourself to Calais; there are some ferries running backwards and forwards many times a day.  " doesn't sound so votewinning.   

[Jaded]

Being stuck in another country that has food, shelter and bars but no copies of today's Daily Mail is a humanitarian crisis, isn't it?  

[nuttycyclist]

I agree.


However there is some small crisis in that not all stranded people are loaded enough to be able to afford hotels or food... especially if the employer has stopped paying them as they're awol.

You also have the knock on effect of companies being short staffed now that their planned workloads are ramping back up after the easter break but not all staff are back.  

Triage is the word I think.

[Zoidburg]

It doesn't mean they will pay for repatriation.

Tracking down all that money will take years, with the numbers involved it's going to overload whatever admin systems they have in place.

I also doubt every individual involved is going to go through the consulate, again too many people involved.

It will consist of - get to a port - show passport - board, old Gordon want's all the people back, the longer they are absent the more money the economy loses.

The clock is ticking.

[Zoidburg]

Being stuck in another country that has food, shelter and bars but no copies of today's Daily Mail is a humanitarian crisis, isn't it?  

It will be when they start to run out of money.

Not every person has x grand of savings.

[Jaded]

Not every person has x grand of savings.

Nope, because they have spent it all on going on holiday to a relatively expensive destination. 

[Polar Bear]

Ah, budget travel for the masses.   Travel is too cheap and folk simply believe that they have a right to travel.   They do, and they have a responsibility to be able to look after themselves too.   

[Zoidburg]

Not every person has x grand of savings.

Nope, because they have spent it all on going on holiday to a relatively expensive destination. 

Or it could be that not being one of the baby boomers that hog up all the national wealth - you had to scrape together a few hundred quid for a last minute flight to cheap resort in spain.

You are now not getting paid by work.

[Zoidburg]

Ah, budget travel for the masses.   Travel is too cheap and folk simply believe that they have a right to travel.   They do, and they have a responsibility to be able to look after themselves too.   

It was a volcano.

Would you dump them there if a war broke out?

[Jaded]

Not every person has x grand of savings.

Nope, because they have spent it all on going on holiday to a relatively expensive destination. 

Or it could be that not being one of the baby boomers that hog up all the national wealth - you had to scrape together a few hundred quid for a last minute flight to cheap resort in spain.

You are now not getting paid by work.

Caveat emptor.

[Polar Bear]

It doesn't really matter how you got there or if you're loaded or not.   It's stupendously irresponsible to go travelling without contingency resources.     

[Zoidburg]

It doesn't really matter how you got there or if you're loaded or not.   It's stupendously irresponsible to go travelling without contingency resources.      

A lot of people have them.

It's actualy getting transport that is the issue, there is a bottle neck.

It is often the case in times when transport systems get swamped such as during civil wars, disasters etc etc - that money becomes effectively useless.

[Greenbank]

The media reports seem to forget that there are pretty strict rules in Europe on the responsibilities of the airline in situations like this:-

BBC News - Iceland volcano: Air passenger rights

That article also touches on the employment law aspects.

[Kathy]

It doesn't really matter how you got there or if you're loaded or not.   It's stupendously irresponsible to go travelling without contingency resources.      

...unless of course you're doing as I once did, and going to an international conference when I was a semi-impoverished PhD student. Unfortunately, the policy of the company I worked for was that the tripee paid for everything out of their own pocket, and then submitted receipts for a refund on returning. Doubly unfortunately, the month of the conference was the month after the car tax, MOT, insurance and a hefty vet bill. I had budgetted just enough (i.e. found all the loose change Tim and I could scrape up from the back of the sofa) to cope with the trip, and then there was a baggage handler's strike.   I had a very worried twenty-four hours before I found out my flight home wouldn't be cancelled, as I otherwise wouldn't have any more money available to me in Spain. At all.  

[Chris S]

Bit of a discussion about all this over the dinner table tonight.

Conclusion #1: We've become so used to hypermobility, and the assumption that we can fling ourselves thousands of miles from our homes, across vast tracts of sea and land, and expect it to be trivial and routine to get home again. It's a bit of a wake up call when it suddenly turns out we can be stranded so far from home.

Conclusion #2: An employer that says "You must use annual leave to bail yourself out of this" might be a wee bit unfair; I'd have said "You can take unpaid leave, or annual leave - your choice..." but I agree that it's not an employers position to bail out an employee - mainly because of #1.