Waxing your chain

[Gattopardo]

Is paraffin oil different to paraffin?

Also I've melted tea light, is that the wrong stuff?

[wooger]

I tried waxing a couple of years ago, but I gave it up because it just didn't seem to last long enough. It was rare to even get round a 200km without the chain starting to get noisy.

Reading up, it's possible that I needed to add some paraffin oil to the the paraffin wax I was using.

Q for the experts: can you get round a 600km audax with a waxed chain? In British conditions, of course

I've done over 500km in the south of France with a fresh immersion waxed chain, no top ups, still ran great.
But with UK rain 600km is going to be pushing it to have the chain still running smoothly, at least without a top up (over the top with a quality drip wax like UFO or Silca). And even then you'd really want to give the chain a proper wipe and dry first. Trouble is for a 600km, even if you time the top up at your longest rest stop  / half way, the drip waxes almost all need to dry overnight before use -  might not fit your plans.

There is one option which I'm experimenting with; Tru Tension Bananaslip Tungsten all weather. A drip wax that claims to be dry in 5 minutes... I'm trying it now, certainly seems to work fine.

You can of course simply start with a waxed chain and apply an oil lube over the top should you need it - it works fine, your waxed chain will remain clean of dirt until you apply the oil, and might last OK on it's own anyway if you're lucky with the weather. The oil works fine when applied as usual, the only issue is that when you want to reset to wax lube once you're home you'll need to fully clean and degrease your chain and drivetrain, instead of just a rinse in boiling water and whacking it in the wax again.

Re your paraffin wax question, the type of wax makes a big difference. Gulf wax is probably the safest bet, candles are not a good idea at all, can be make of soy wax of tons of other things.

The specialist waxes are a good bit better and have some useful additives to make them last. Depends on whether you want the best lubed chain, or just want to save money on degreaser and lube.
I'm using NRG wax from the UK, more expensive than plain paraffin wax but vastly cheaper than Silca etc.

[Gattopardo]

How do you know which candles are which?

[AlexEaling]

But with UK rain 600km is going to be pushing it to have the chain still running smoothly, at least without a top up (over the top with a quality drip wax like UFO or Silca). And even then you'd really want to give the chain a proper wipe and dry first. Trouble is for a 600km, even if you time the top up at your longest rest stop  / half way, the drip waxes almost all need to dry overnight before use -  might not fit your plans.

There is one option which I'm experimenting with; Tru Tension Bananaslip Tungsten all weather. A drip wax that claims to be dry in 5 minutes... I'm trying it now, certainly seems to work fine.

I've literally done this, give the chain a quick wipe, apply drip wax, sleep. Wake up, go again.

The TT stuff definitely doesn't set in 5 minutes, but it is slack enough that it'll be better than nothing even after that. I think it was TT that did poorly in the wet conditions test from ZFC, he contacted them and they revised the setting time to 24 hours and it did much better.....still says 15 minutes on the bottle though

The fastest drying I've seen is UFO Drip All Conditions. I carry the UFO Wet for the 'better than nothing if caught in terrible weather' option though on long audaxes.

[zigzag]

my preferred method is to carry a spare waxed chain. quick and clean to swap it out, and doesn't weigh that much (especially as there's no need to carry a chain breaker tool).

most of my cycling is in dry conditions and wax lasts 500...800km

[Neilatclyro]

Re the references to ultrasonic cleaning baths upthread - any recommendations please for where to buy and what type/size bath is most useful for chains and general bike bits?  don't want to spend too much (I am after all cyclist:) ), but will if needed for reliability.

 

[robgul]

Re the references to ultrasonic cleaning baths upthread - any recommendations please for where to buy and what type/size bath is most useful for chains and general bike bits?  don't want to spend too much (I am after all cyclist:) ), but will if needed for reliability.

This in the 3Litre version works for me:  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Commercial-Ultrasonic-Cleaner-DK-SONIC-Eyeglasses/dp/B07BL1T725/ref=sr_1_24?crid=33DH1BL25X0ID&keywords=ultrasonic+cleaner&qid=1707826298&sprefix=ultra%2Caps%2C175&sr=8-24

I run it with water and about a cupful of Screwfix NoNonsense Degreaser.

[wooger]

I've literally done this, give the chain a quick wipe, apply drip wax, sleep. Wake up, go again.

The TT stuff definitely doesn't set in 5 minutes, but it is slack enough that it'll be better than nothing even after that. I think it was TT that did poorly in the wet conditions test from ZFC, he contacted them and they revised the setting time to 24 hours and it did much better.....still says 15 minutes on the bottle though

Ah thanks, can't say I've tested the quick drying feature yet but it did sound odd that this one drip wax was hundreds of times quicker than the rest. The product does seem sound though at least.

It is tempting to just abandon waxing and beg/borrow some oil to top up in truly epic ride lengths in wet conditions.

Re the references to ultrasonic cleaning baths upthread - any recommendations please for where to buy and what type/size bath is most useful for chains and general bike bits?  don't want to spend too much (I am after all cyclist:) ), but will if needed for reliability.

I'd say absolutely not needed for waxing, and will be incredibly seldom used if you do make the switch, as there'll be no oil to be degreased on your drivetrain from then on.
Start with a new chain and that's easy to degrease with a couple of solvent baths.

Chainrings & Cassettes come up sparkling with just a bit of degreaser and scrubbing, certainly clean enough to not bother working out where to store another bit of bike maintenance equipment.

[Afasoas]

Lots of information here: https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/
This is where I started: https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Key-Learnings-from-Lubricant-Testing-2.3a.pdf

I think I'm convinved about the merits of immersive waxing.
Where's the best place to buy Turpentine and Methylated Spirits online?

[Gattopardo]

Re the references to ultrasonic cleaning baths upthread - any recommendations please for where to buy and what type/size bath is most useful for chains and general bike bits?  don't want to spend too much (I am after all cyclist:) ), but will if needed for reliability.

Not as good as a soak in degreasser and shaking

Check out Oz Cycling on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYxzHClWfQU

[Sergeant Pluck]

I'd say absolutely not needed for waxing...

Start with a new chain and that's easy to degrease with a couple of solvent baths.

Agreed.

Where's the best place to buy Turpentine and Methylated Spirits online?

I use white spirit then meths with a new chain and I just get them from Amazon.

[robgul]

I've literally done this, give the chain a quick wipe, apply drip wax, sleep. Wake up, go again.

The TT stuff definitely doesn't set in 5 minutes, but it is slack enough that it'll be better than nothing even after that. I think it was TT that did poorly in the wet conditions test from ZFC, he contacted them and they revised the setting time to 24 hours and it did much better.....still says 15 minutes on the bottle though

Ah thanks, can't say I've tested the quick drying feature yet but it did sound odd that this one drip wax was hundreds of times quicker than the rest. The product does seem sound though at least.

It is tempting to just abandon waxing and beg/borrow some oil to top up in truly epic ride lengths in wet conditions.

Re the references to ultrasonic cleaning baths upthread - any recommendations please for where to buy and what type/size bath is most useful for chains and general bike bits?  don't want to spend too much (I am after all cyclist:) ), but will if needed for reliability.

I'd say absolutely not needed for waxing, and will be incredibly seldom used if you do make the switch, as there'll be no oil to be degreased on your drivetrain from then on.
Start with a new chain and that's easy to degrease with a couple of solvent baths.

Chainrings & Cassettes come up sparkling with just a bit of degreaser and scrubbing, certainly clean enough to not bother working out where to store another bit of bike maintenance equipment.

I'd challenge that comment about seldom using  - I use the machine to clean cassettes, chainrings, mechs, and various other bike parts - as well as tools (both bike related and others) and other bits and pieces.    A big benefit is that while the machine is doing its job you can get on with something else.

[AlexEaling]

Check out Oz Cycling on youtube

I'd suggest not giving him clicks/money/attention...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-05/steven-john-leffanue-jailed-over-killing-neighbours-dog/101209462

Where's the best place to buy Turpentine and Methylated Spirits online?

I wouldn't, get some UFO Clean or Silca Chain Stripper and do it more easily, quicker and with less harmful chemicals 

I'd say absolutely not needed for waxing, and will be incredibly seldom used if you do make the switch, as there'll be no oil to be degreased on your drivetrain from then on.
Start with a new chain and that's easy to degrease with a couple of solvent baths.

I'd challenge that comment about seldom using  - I use the machine to clean cassettes, chainrings, mechs, and various other bike parts - as well as tools (both bike related and others) and other bits and pieces.    A big benefit is that while the machine is doing its job you can get on with something else.

I think the poster above means once it's waxed. You don't need to clean mechs, chainrings etc once you're on an immersive wax setup. Any minor cleanup when using wax drip can be done with the leftover used cleaner from the above.

[Zed43]

Half a litre of Silca Chain Stripper is 44 euro. Whole litre of white spirits is what, 2 euro?

I do use their wax, for convenience and one pouch last for ages. So far I'm happy waxing the chain (well, it's three chains...) on my velomobile; since it runs inside rain does not affect it and it does keep my lower leg and hands (when mending the chain when it ran off the chainring) clean.

[De Sisti]

I have used this with great success, followed by waxing the chain with cheap candle flakes in an old slow cooker. 

[Sergeant Pluck]

I do use their wax, for convenience and one pouch last for ages.

Likewise. I tolerate the price given it lasts a long time. The pricing of some of their other bits and bobs is insane.

[robgul]

Check out Oz Cycling on youtube

I'd suggest not giving him clicks/money/attention...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-05/steven-john-leffanue-jailed-over-killing-neighbours-dog/101209462

Where's the best place to buy Turpentine and Methylated Spirits online?

I wouldn't, get some UFO Clean or Silca Chain Stripper and do it more easily, quicker and with less harmful chemicals 

I'd say absolutely not needed for waxing, and will be incredibly seldom used if you do make the switch, as there'll be no oil to be degreased on your drivetrain from then on.
Start with a new chain and that's easy to degrease with a couple of solvent baths.

I'd challenge that comment about seldom using  - I use the machine to clean cassettes, chainrings, mechs, and various other bike parts - as well as tools (both bike related and others) and other bits and pieces.    A big benefit is that while the machine is doing its job you can get on with something else.

I think the poster above means once it's waxed. You don't need to clean mechs, chainrings etc once you're on an immersive wax setup. Any minor cleanup when using wax drip can be done with the leftover used cleaner from the above.

Agreed on chain/drivetrain when waxed (unless very dirty) - I was really extolling the virtues of ultrasonic bath ownership beyond just chains . . .

[AlexEaling]

Half a litre of Silca Chain Stripper is 44 euro. Whole litre of white spirits is what, 2 euro?

I mentioned two products, the other one was UFO Clean which is £22.

The cost of the product is one factor but not the only one. First off, half a litre of either of the above will strip 25 factory chains of lube - so even from a price perspective, how much white spirit and meths (which btw is £5 per 500ml, so quadruples your price comparison) will that need?

The next factor is time, what do you want to do. Three baths of white spirit, followed by 2 of meths, then wax....or soak in UFO Clean, give it a couple of shakes occasionally, move chain into a foil tray and immerse/rinse with boiling water, then dry and you're done. In the latter case the chain will also have a coating that it's claimed (and I have anecdotaly found to be true) helps with the wax adhesion to the chain.

Then there's the question of what to do with it afterwards. Used White Spirit (unless you have a fancy recycling facility at home) will require taking to the tip for proper disposal. Used UFO/Silca should also be properly disposed of, but as the initial chemical is environmentally friendly you could arguably use the 'used' stuff which still has some cleaning power to do some cleaning of chainrings etc and rinse it off, which is still better than doing the above with a harsh degreaser.

You pay your money and take your choice, and I've done both. I get paid to prep chains and regularly go to the tip to dispose of chemicals, so if I thought White Spirit/Meths was better/cheaper/easier I'd still be using them but the time saving and the guaranteed result means I mostly use UFO Clean.

For the home waxer using drip wax, I find it very hard to recommend anything other than the Silca Bundle - for 8 quid more than the drip wax itself you get the wax plus the stripper (only enough to do 5-6 chains, but still....), and you never have to even worry about taking the chain off. More experienced people who do immersive would still benefit from having some drip wax lying around for those lazy times or after getting caught in rain when you need to do something but can't be bothered with a full strip and rewax.

[freeflow]

The problem with liquid suspensions of waxes is that they use additives (surfactants etc) to create the emulsion and stop the wax agglomerating into a single blob.  When the wax dries out those additives remain, ready to solubulise the wax again at the first sign of water.  Hence hot waxing is by far the better method as it is just water repellent wax and is very difficult for water to wash off on an ad hoc basis.

[Sergeant Pluck]

You pay your money and take your choice, and I've done both.

All very interesting. As I have waxed a grand total of 4 chains, time and cost aren’t huge factors but despite the low volumes I am keen to use less damaging substances. A few questions:

- when you say 500ml UFO Clean will do 25 chains, I take it that’s reusing the whole 500ml in a container of some sort on exclusively new chains?
- how do you dispose of the UFO?
- do you find that the UFO is just as good for chains that have had proper immersive waxing + maybe a top up or two with drip wax?

[AlexEaling]

The problem with liquid suspensions of waxes is that they use additives (surfactants etc) to create the emulsion and stop the wax agglomerating into a single blob.  When the wax dries out those additives remain, ready to solubulise the wax again at the first sign of water.  Hence hot waxing is by far the better method as it is just water repellent wax and is very difficult for water to wash off on an ad hoc basis.

You may know more than me on the chemistry on this one, but I've found (sometimes) the opposite. Drip waxes like Tru Tension All Weather and UFO Wet Conditions have a percentage of (wax compatible) oil in them, which means on one hand they run dirtier but on the other they resist wet weather (and possibly corrosion) better. I'm not sure what the solvent is in most drip waxes, but I assumed it was some kind of solvent like alcohol which I'd imagined evaporating off and not leaving residue, but I may be wrong!

Photo of a few drip waxes I've done an experiment with leaving in clear bottles to separate. You can see UFO Wet has more solvent/oil, similar to Effetto Flower Power (right) which is a similar product:

You pay your money and take your choice, and I've done both.

All very interesting. As I have waxed a grand total of 4 chains, time and cost aren’t huge factors but despite the low volumes I am keen to use less damaging substances. A few questions:

- when you say 500ml UFO Clean will do 25 chains, I take it that’s reusing the whole 500ml in a container of some sort on exclusively new chains?
- how do you dispose of the UFO?
- do you find that the UFO is just as good for chains that have had proper immersive waxing + maybe a top up or two with drip wax?

You can use 100ml to submerge one chain at a time, then pour it into another container for storage and repeat up to 5x.


TBH what I do is have three containers of UFO Clean -  'brand new', 'used' and 'past it's best'. I start with new, once I've cleaned a chain with it I stick it in 'used' then once it's looking too black to reliably strip a new chain I'll put it in 'past it's best', which is a spray bottle that I use for (and is still perfectly capable of) cleaning cassettes, chainrings etc on both waxed and 'normal' drive trains. Even at this stage UFO Clean is generally better than most bike branded degreasers.

....oh and yes, only use on new chains. If you put a used chain in, the (contents of the) container will be ruined!

[mrcharly-YHT]

I think that the benefits of wax depend very much upon riding conditions.

When I lived in Oz, wind-blown sand and sand thrown up by tyres was a constant. It stuck to the drivetrain, causing rapid wear and friction.
It rains very heavily in Oz, but not frequently, so rain washing lube off chains is not so much a problem.
I switched from oil to motorcycle chain wax and it worked well. Some sand stuck to the wax, but it tended to be on the outside and often fell off.

Constant rain, IME, washes wax out of the roller parts of a chain, so you end up with a squeaky chain quite quickly. The uk road salt then rusts the chain within hours.

So, horses for courses. I wouldn't use wax where I live now, because the year-round likelihood of rain (and there is constant salt spray). Little or no chance of sand getting on chain.

[finch]

I use ultimate chain wax but it’s m wondering whether anyone adds anything to their wax , PTFE or something. I haven’t run into any issues really it’s perhaps a little harder and less quiet than I imagined but with a wipperman chain it does stay super clean and super shiny on my “dry” bike. Generally I carry a wee 10ml bottle of wet lube in case it rains anyway

I’ve had absolutely no joy using wax on the winter bike because E.Scotland is awfully wet. I just use bags of wet lube - it’s messy but everything remains in good condition when it gets cleaned.

I did read that after several “waxes” the bare chain becomes sort of hydrophobic anyway and it gets better in the wet over time but I don’t see how that’s a thing. Personally I use my winter bike a lot on the trainer and it’s annoying that both cassettes end up horrible - then that “ming” gets transferred to Mrs F’s drivetrain when she uses her bike on the trainer - aside from a ridiculous amount of cleaning I’d love a solution to that but it appears wax isn’t it

[Sergeant Pluck]

You can use 100ml to submerge one chain at a time, then pour it into another container for storage and repeat up to 5x.

TBH what I do is have three containers of UFO Clean -  'brand new', 'used' and 'past it's best'. I start with new, once I've cleaned a chain with it I stick it in 'used' then once it's looking too black to reliably strip a new chain I'll put it in 'past it's best', which is a spray bottle that I use for (and is still perfectly capable of) cleaning cassettes, chainrings etc on both waxed and 'normal' drive trains. Even at this stage UFO Clean is generally better than most bike branded degreasers.

Thanks AlexEaling. I think I shall try this stuff.

[Afasoas]

Just bought 3 additional chains, so that will be four to run in rotation.
CeramicSpeed UFO drive train cleaner.
Small (1.5l) slow cooker.
Silca Secret Blend Chain Wax.

That was a few quid.
What containers are people using for chain cleaning? I used to shake them up with detergent/degreaser in a 2 litre plastic milk bottle, but since we have milk delivered now, we don't get those anymore.

Thanks.