Got a Dynamo Wheel Now to Choose the Lights, B&M, Edelux or Other?

[MacB]

As promised on the recent lights thread, I'm back, and confused, most of my original plans seem to be out of the water and I'm really struggling to pull the trigger on the lights. I finally settled on the Alfine dynamo wheel as it was £98 as opposed to £208, it seems fine but obviously haven't got the lights yet. Thought I was all set on the Edelux but I've been reading again and have confused myself. So:-

Front light - Edelux or B&M, the Edelux was front runner but apparently doesn't come with cable for connecting rear light??? Then I got to looking at the light test on here and other beam comparison stuff on the web. The Lumotec IQ Cyo R senso plus looks very tempting. It has the same sort of beam pattern but claims to have resolved a close in dark spot issue. Yet it's 40lux, whereas the cheaper, non r-series version, is 60lux and the Edelux is claimed at 80lux. B&M list their IQ Cyo's with 4 categories, front reflector and close range light, stand light, automatic(senso) illumination and switch for dynohub. They show only 2 models as ticking all 4 of these, the 175QRSNDi & 175QRCSNDi. I can get the latter for Euro 96 delivered via Bike24, whereas SJS only have the 175QRDi which lacks the senso and the switch for £94.

So Edelux for £125 but doesn't come with cabling for rear light and, not sure on this, doesn't have the close in light function, but it does claim 80lux.

Or IQ Cyo for Euro96 but is only 40lux?

Then we come to rear lights, thought I'd stick with B&M for this but I'm struggling to make sense of all the models. At least none of them are super expensive, most is about Euro30 at Bike24 again. But dynamo only, batteries as well, any advice here would be most welcome?...will be rack mounted.

[Kim]

The 'R' version of the Cyo has a lower lux rating because the optics spread the light over a larger area, the LED and electronics are exactly the same.  That's how luxes work.

I have two bikes with Cyo R senso pluses (and also an IxonIQ, which has the same beam pattern as the non-R Cyo, with a less powerful LED).  My take is that the 'R' beam pattern is useful on an upright bike, especially if it's a tourer or something likely to be used on dodgy surfaces (eg. towpaths), where the nearfield illumination is very useful.  It's a waste of time on my recumbent, the boom mostly blocks the view of that area, and if I did it again I'd have got the non-R version for that.  If it's a 'fast' road bike, then either is a valid choice.

The reflector itself is decent enough, should you feel the need for a front reflector (presumably only if you want to comply with some country's regulations that require them to be fitted).

The senso function is handy if you're regularly riding through tunnels, dense tree cover or the like and it's mounted somewhere you can't reach the switch.  It probably saves a bit of switch wear overall.  Otherwise, it's largely a gimmick, but not a very expensive one.

I'd say that in normal circumstances the 'plus' standlight functionality was essential (and works very well), as is a switch to extinguish it when needed.

The switched and senso versions of the Cyo provide a connection for a rear light which is controlled by the switch and sensor (though not provided with standlight power by the Cyo - you'll need a rear light with a standlight).  You can of course wire a rear light in parallel with any light, you just won't get the one-switch control.

My understanding of the Edelux is that it has the same optics as the non-R Cyo, a slightly better LED, and more robust mechanical construction (not to say there's anything wrong with the Cyo's).  I have no first-hand experience, though.

[fuaran]

A suitable cable to connect the Edelux to a rear light only costs a couple of pounds, so it doesn't matter too much if one isn't included.

Though you can get an IQ Cyo from Bike24 for about €75, I don't know if the Edelux is worth twice as much...

[MacB]

Thanks folks, cost is an issue but I plan on moving this entire wheelset and lighting setup to another bike and upgrading on this bike at some point. Just checked Bike24 and can get the senso plus 60 lux for about Euro70 delivered, the only thing I'd be losing is the front reflector, not a problem and the light at close range...I'm just not sure of how much of a problem that would be. This is primarily a road commuting bike, may do the odd bike/tow path, but no offroading as such. If I can get the front and rear light for Euro100, or less, then that would be helpful.

Is it possible just to angle the N series down a bit if need be?

Any thoughts on the B&M rear light models?

[PH]

If you haven't already seen it, Peter Whites beam comparison is worth a look, he's also very realistic about the limitations of such comparisons;
headlight beams from Peter White Cycles
I like the Supernova E3, both front and rear.  Bright and reliable, well made and pretty. I've also had good service from the company, when the toggle switch on the early version failed after two years, I received the replacement newer version light before I'd go round to posting the faulty one back.  They also offer upgrades as brighter LEDs become available and will tell you how much of a difference it'll make rather than just take your money.  Several UK stockists now, I liked dealing direct, aways helpful and quick to answer emails.
Supernova Shop

EDIT - Forget LUX unless you're comparing lights with identical beam patterns. It measures light over a certain area (1 mtr sq?) at a certain distance (?).  It takes no account on what else it illuminates.

[fuaran]

Bike24 have the IQ Cyo R Senso Plus (black) for €70, though the silver version costs €20 more.

Any thoughts on the B&M rear light models?

I've got a Toplight Flat Plus, and I'm happy with it. Its got a pretty bright LED, visible from a range of directions, and the standlight last ages. And fairly compact, it doesn't stick out as much as the older DToplights etc. Plus its rather cheap (€13 from Bike24).

I've heard mixed reports about the new, Linetec models. Apparently as its a wider strip of light its less bright, and not as immediately recognisable as a bike light.

[DrMekon]

I've got the non-r cyo, as even on an uberslow bakfiets, the nearfield light wasn't worth having. The gap is small, and it's not like it's copletely unlit - just that it's not lit with the ferocity of the rest of the pattern - certainly enough spill to see into the gap on unlit roads.

Sorry, I must have missed it - which wheel did you get and from where? I am still a step behind you.

[michael2u]

You can go with B&M cyo for the front light, its good however, first you have to check your pocket, if it could be arranged as it is not causing problem.
Moreover, you have to look that hub dynamos such as the Schmidt SON and Shimano DH-3N70/71/72 require an electrical switch to turn off the headlight and not burn out the bulb during daylight. Without the switch, the light would burn whenever the bike is moving, even during daylight, thus shortening the life of the bulb. Naturally, lights without switches are less expensive than those with switches. You can take the example of Lumotec also.

[Russell]

Al

I've got a B+M Ixon IQ which has the same beam pattern as a non R Cyo.  If you want to borrow it to see if the 'dark spot' is a problem you're more than welcome.  It's a 40lux version but plenty bright enough.

Russell

[MacB]

I've got the non-r cyo, as even on an uberslow bakfiets, the nearfield light wasn't worth having. The gap is small, and it's not like it's copletely unlit - just that it's not lit with the ferocity of the rest of the pattern - certainly enough spill to see into the gap on unlit roads.

Sorry, I must have missed it - which wheel did you get and from where? I am still a step behind you.

Ah, got the Alfine one from here:-

Shimano S501 Alfine Dynamo Wheel For Rim and Disc Brake - Front | Wheels Road | Cycle - Cycle Sports UK

it's listed at £108.99 but I got a further 10% off at checkout....a pleasant surprise. It's the same internals as the regular Alfine, and the other top end Shimano dynamos, but has a different shell. So it's a 24 spoke wheel and has those funny looking flanges where they're boxy and angled like an elbow bend(that's my technical description). The rim is branded Shimano but is a 622x19 ertro, so same as rear rim, is good for rim brakes as well.

Having an inner tart, I decided to go for the grey to match the I-9 rear hub and so am looking at silver headlamps. If I'm happy with this then I'd get the new wheelset totally Alfine, but in black, with black headlight. Then the silver wheelset/light would go on the black Surly and the black wheelset/light would go on the white Pompetamine.

[MacB]

Al

I've got a B+M Ixon IQ which has the same beam pattern as a non R Cyo.  If you want to borrow it to see if the 'dark spot' is a problem you're more than welcome.  It's a 40lux version but plenty bright enough.

Russell

Thanks Russell, but I've been thinking on it and will always run a small battery LED as well. no good for riding unlit roads at speed but fine for that near field bit of light. So I'm going to go for the cheaper non R version, the cost saving should mean that Jane maims, rather than kills, me.

[MacB]

If you haven't already seen it, Peter Whites beam comparison is worth a look, he's also very realistic about the limitations of such comparisons;
headlight beams from Peter White Cycles
I like the Supernova E3, both front and rear.  Bright and reliable, well made and pretty. I've also had good service from the company, when the toggle switch on the early version failed after two years, I received the replacement newer version light before I'd go round to posting the faulty one back.  They also offer upgrades as brighter LEDs become available and will tell you how much of a difference it'll make rather than just take your money.  Several UK stockists now, I liked dealing direct, aways helpful and quick to answer emails.
Supernova Shop

EDIT - Forget LUX unless you're comparing lights with identical beam patterns. It measures light over a certain area (1 mtr sq?) at a certain distance (?).  It takes no account on what else it illuminates.

Thanks PH, I have lusted after the Supernovas but the price is just too high, very good info on Peter White thoguh...ta.

[CAMRAMan]

I've just fitted a CYO without reflector. It was this one from Bike24: Busch + Müller Lumotec IQ Cyo N Plus LED       54,95 EUR  Front Light 175QNDi. I've only got a Hella halogen to compare it with, but it illuminated a dark canal towpath very adequately and I didn't have to slow down any compared to my daytime ride on the same stretch.

Anecdotal, I know, but it's a very bright light. I'm sure Bike 24 will have the tarty silver version. Oh, and it turned up in 3 days. Great service from Bike24 as usual.

[andrew_s]

A suitable cable to connect the Edelux to a rear light only costs a couple of pounds, so it doesn't matter too much if one isn't included.

Mostly you get a cable for the back light with the back light. You may have to crimp the second connector on.
It plugs into the underside of the Edelux.

Lux is lumens per square metre. It doesn't have to be a whole square metre - 0.5cm2 for a light meter detector will do.
It will be a point measurement at the brightest point in the beam, as measured 10m from the light. The German regulations specify how bright it must be in other directions as referenced from the brightest point - no more than 3 lux above 3 deg above the brightest point, at least 75%  as bright 10 deg left or right of brightest point - that sort of stuff.

[MacB]

Thanks for all the help everyone, I managed to stop procrastinating and have ordered, from Bike24, the B&M IQ Cyo Senso Plus 175QSCNDi and the B&M 4D Toplight Senso Multi Rear 328AB4HR. Euro 103.75 including shipping, will post feedback when I've tried it, I currently have a Fenix L2D to compare it against....thanks again....Al

[Kim]

B&M 4D Toplight Senso Multi Rear 328AB4HR

I forgot to say anything about rears.  I have these ones too.  I've got mixed feelings about the engineering elegance of the battery powered standlight approach, but since it only runs on battery power when you're stopped, they last approximately forever anyway.  I reckon the additional side-facing LEDs are worth having, and in the absence of a 4DToplight Plus model, this seemed like the best option.

The thing to watch out for is bashing the light against things when manhandling the bike.  Apparently they don't like it very much, and the plastic clips holding the two halves of the light together can break.  Not a problem I've had, on account of the shape of the racks I have them mounted to, but as they don't say, your rack may vary.

[MacB]

Thanks Kim, I'll try to be careful, I did hum and haw as I wasn't sure I wanted battery as well, sort of defeating the dynamo purpose a bit. But decided the belt and braces approach was probably worth it.

If everything arrives and I'm happy with the way the bike's running I may bring it out for it's maiden night ride to Whitstable in a couple of weeks time.

[Kim]

Agreed - redundancy in rear lights has to be a Good Thing.

[CommuteTooFar]

Mostly for paranoia reasons. 

My commuting bike has a B&M seculite on the mudguard surrounded by the optional metal cage and a B&M flat light (battery version) on the rack.

[interested]

Front light - Edelux or B&M, the Edelux was front runner but apparently doesn't come with cable for connecting rear light??? Then I got to looking at the light test on here and other beam comparison stuff on the web. The Lumotec IQ Cyo R senso plus looks very tempting. It has the same sort of beam pattern but claims to have resolved a close in dark spot issue. Yet it's 40lux, whereas the cheaper, non r-series version, is 60lux and the Edelux is claimed at 80lux. B&M list their IQ Cyo's with 4 categories, front reflector and close range light, stand light, automatic(senso) illumination and switch for dynohub. They show only 2 models as ticking all 4 of these, the 175QRSNDi & 175QRCSNDi. I can get the latter for Euro 96 delivered via Bike24, whereas SJS only have the 175QRDi which lacks the senso and the switch for £94.

So Edelux for £125 but doesn't come with cabling for rear light and, not sure on this, doesn't have the close in light function, but it does claim 80lux.

Or IQ Cyo for Euro96 but is only 40lux?

About the Edelux: it is the luxurious edition of the IQ Cyo. It uses the same optics and LED's etc as the Cyo, but because of better cooling it gives out slightly more light. It has much better electrical shielding than the Cyo, so it shouldn't cause problems with wireless tachometers, unlike the Cyo which is known to interfere with many wireless bicycle computers.
It is rated at 60 lux, but given enough power, it delivers up to 80 lux. In the same test the IQ Cyo measured around 75 lux. The Edelux comes with either a 60 "SON" hub cable or a 120 cm cable with without the plugs crimped on. You can connect the Edelux to a rear light, but it does require some fettling, especially if you want to connect the rear light with two wires.: http://www.nabendynamo.de/produkte/pdf/english/Montage_Edelux_e.pdf

The Edelux may be the best regarding output, finish, shielding, and waterproofing, but the IQ Cyo is still a very good light and it can be had for as low as 50 Euro at the moment, compared to the around 125 Euro that the Edelux sells for.

The IQ Cyo R (40 lux) has the same total light output as the "sport" model (60 lux), it is just that some of the light is directed downwards. So which one to choose? IMHO it depends on where you ride and how fast. If you ride mainly on asphalt roads at a good speed, the sports model is the best because its beam has a longer throw. The "dark spot" isn't a problem at all. First of all, it isn't really dark, it is just that compared to the bright spot further ahead, it seems dark even though it is illuminated to some degree. Besides, if you ride fast, you shouldn't be looking at the first meter in front of your bicycle but far ahead and let the peripheral vision take care of the rest.

The R model is a great choice for slower and perhaps more "technical" riding in the woods and on dirt and gravel tracks. Winter riding with spiked tyres tend to be a slow affair too.
Also a good choice for city night riding at slow to medium speeds, because the beam helps avoiding glass shards on the road.

If you find your riding is a mixture of both styles then find comfort in that both models are very fine lights, so you can't really go wrong whatever model you choose.

Both my B&M IQ Fly and IQ Cyo (sport) are "senso" model, but my newest IQ Cyo isn't. The "senso" option just work so well for me. The main problem is, that I tend to turn off the light when parking to shut down the stand light. So when I start I either forget to turn on the light in the senso position because it is daylight, or it is dark outside, so why bother with anything else than switching to "on" instead of "senso". If there was a separate button to shut down the stand light one could just leave the light on "senso".

The drag is so minimal (only a few watt) that leaving the light on all the time even in daylight isn't a problem at all. For the same reason I wouldn't bother with the new Cyo RT models.

Then we come to rear lights, thought I'd stick with B&M for this but I'm struggling to make sense of all the models. At least none of them are super expensive, most is about Euro30 at Bike24 again. But dynamo only, batteries as well, any advice here would be most welcome?...will be rack mounted.

I just bought two "B&M TOPLIGHT Line Plus" from here TOPLIGHT Line Plus Dioden-Rücklicht
The main reason for choosing this model is that it has a separate switch for the stand light. Not completely sure yet how it works, but I hope/think that the switch short circuits the stand light capacitor and thereby turning it off by emptying it, instead of more permanent on/off switch for the stand light. The product description imply that it works this way.
If so, then one can just shut off the stand light when parking and not bother about remembering to turn on the rear light when using the bike next time.


--
Regards

[MacB]

Wow, Interested that's a lot of good info, and pleasing that it doesn't make me doubt the order I've committed to. As I say I may still go for an Edelux/SON on a future upgrade but, this way, getting the whole shebang, dynamo wheel and front and rear lights for £190 was too good to resist, fully £170 less than what I had been looking at.

I also noted your post re dynamos on the other thread and am hoping I'll be as happy with my Alfine one, as you've been with your 3N80. If I am then I think the SON hub will be off the upgrade table altogether. I do like matching wheels and am taken with the prospect of an Alfine 11, Alfine dynamo, all black, combo for the white Pomp. That's assuming that the Alfine 11 lives up to the hype and the alfine dynamo doesn't disappoint. If so I can look at an entire wheelset, fitting kit etc, plus quality dynamo lights for £800ish, or about 3/4 the cost of a Rohloff disc hub on its own.

[MacB]

Well just spent a couple of hours fitting the dynamo lights, what is it with non existent, or indecipherable, instructions. After the fact it all seems straight forward and common sense but these were the first time I'd touched dynamo lights...still I know now. So what I fitted and what I've learned:-

B&M Lumotec IQ Cyo Senso Plus front light - their code 175QCSNDi - very nice looking light, was easy to fit, I'd drilled the fork crown ready, just had to find an extra long bolt. It was a faff trying to tighten bolt and keep light in place at the front and mudguard in place at rear. So the longer bolt allowed me to fit two nuts, using the first to secure the light and then the second for the mudguard bracket. The little connector for the Alfine dynohub is nifty, you just push the wire ends into the inner casing and fold up the outside of it. This entire casing then slots into the outer casing locking everything in place. It's then a simple push/pull connect and disconnect to the hub itself. I left the full length of wire and wrapped the excess around the lamp bracket itself, using cable ties to secure wire run to the fork. If I put a computer on this bike then I'll put both wire runs under the same cable tie, or I may use o-rings instead. I did consider a wireless computer but you have to spend to ensure that it's not impacted by the dynamo setup electrics, cheapo wired for under £10 will do me fine. I mainly use it to tell the time and record detail after the ride, sometimes use distance travelled to correlate with directions, but that's about it.

B&M 4D Toplight Senso Multi LED rear light - their code 328AB4HR - this also takes two AA batteries and will act as a senso light or a battery light as well as a plain hub dynamo one. Generally not as impressed with this, firstly(my fault) I had to change to a silver rack as the fitting plate on the black one wasn't right for this light. Secondly the instructions were just what was on the packet, took a while to realise that you fitted it with faceplate off and had to break through the bolt hole areas in the plastic etc. Thirdly, and mainly, the wiring is a faff and I can see it may get damaged quite easily through general wear and tear. The light itself works just fine and I'll use it until it's knackered but I think I'd take a different option in the future. In the space this light takes I could mount 3 Smartflash lights, with the outer two angled to provide maximum coverage. It gives you plenty of redundancy and you can switch them around between bikes. In hindsight I may have gotten carried away dynamo setup wise, I could have bought 3 Smarts for the price of this light. Rear battery lights are one of the items I've been really impressed with since getting into cycling. Also I'll still carry a Smart just in case anyway, setting up with 3 solves the spare carrying issue and provides the just in case bit.

I'll take some piccies later...Al

[Kim]

I actually had to drill my rear light to fit the rack on my hybrid properly.  I can't remember off the top of my head exactly why - I suspect so it wouldn't foul the mudguard.  Faff, but you only have to do it once.

I agree completely about the wiring for rear lights.  On a DF bike all routes are going to be convoluted, ugly or tangled with other cables, and you have to think about things like panniers and workstands mashing the cables.

I do recommend the Schmidt-style coaxial cable for rear lights - it has a circular rather than figure-of-8 profile, which makes it a lot easier to work with, and more aesthetically pleasing.  I have rather a lot of this (2x lighting cable + computer sensor cable) on the boom of my 'bent, and with careful use of cable ties it doesn't look too awful.

[MacB]

I actually had to drill my rear light to fit the rack on my hybrid properly.  I can't remember off the top of my head exactly why - I suspect so it wouldn't foul the mudguard.  Faff, but you only have to do it once.

I agree completely about the wiring for rear lights.  On a DF bike all routes are going to be convoluted, ugly or tangled with other cables, and you have to think about things like panniers and workstands mashing the cables.

I do recommend the Schmidt-style coaxial cable for rear lights - it has a circular rather than figure-of-8 profile, which makes it a lot easier to work with, and more aesthetically pleasing.  I have rather a lot of this (2x lighting cable + computer sensor cable) on the boom of my 'bent, and with careful use of cable ties it doesn't look too awful.

I think mine was a bit easier as I have no cabling along top tube, but do have so cable tie brackets, designed for full outer Alfine gear run, and also have an old fashioned frame pump fitted. So the cable just went straight along the top tube, ziptied to the three brackets and fixed at either end with electrical tape. I then ran it to the rack and took up slack by winding it round the rack arms. From there underneath the rack with electrical tape round the whole rack plate holding it in position. So it's as short a run as physically possible and is relatively tidy.

I think it's just when I stopped to think about how long my existing Smarts last on two AAA batteries, and the realisation that I could mount 3 of them, that got me thinking.

Still I'm delighted with the dynamo wheel and front light so can't all be bad. Many thanks to everyone that's helped advise on this, it really helps to read all the other threads, and light tests, as well.

[Quint]

Just bought a Sturmey Archer dynohub for my ICE 26 Sprint, also bought a Cyo IQ N Plus now Q please, it has two cables coming from the light 1. longer cable with bare ends to connect to the dynohub and 2. shorter wire with a pair of neat spade connectors to connect with the supplied wire to run to a rear light, I will not be using a dynamo rear as \I have three battery rears on the go so - is there circuitry in the light to stop me using the shorter wires to connect to the (supplied) cable from the dynohub or is the light circuitry set up that I will screw the light up if I do.

                  Reason I ask is neat connectors on short wires and nowhere to buy said connectors locally