Bike set up for endurance events.

[morbihan]

I'm curious to know peoples thoughts on how and when they relax the riding position on their bike for endurance type events.
I suspect that there is no hard and fast rule and it will vary from person to person, but at some point the gains made from a "fast" riding position must be nullified by the discomfort of a more aggressive set up.
Do the guys on multi day endurance races such as Trans Am just suck it up and suffer, or do they dial back the angles, ride a little slower but longer.
Do people change the set up mid-ride when things get too unpleasant?
I've no experience of tri bars, but does the angle they are positioned come into play as well?
*If this post is best answered on the addax thread can a mod move?
cheers.

[vorsprung]

I'm curious to know peoples thoughts on how and when they relax the riding position on their bike for endurance type events.

I only ride endurance type events (audax) so most of my bikes are set up to be "relaxed", don't have alter anything

I have an Orbea racing bike that isn't set up in this way.  It seems a little faster but I notice the difference in comfort over even distances as short as 40 miles

[LMT]

Ride a recumbent.

[antokelly]

get a probike fit done tell the guys exactly what you intend to do they will sort u out no problem.

[Karla]

Some relax their fits.  Others find they don't need to.  Others do lots of strengthening exercises so they can hold aggressive positions for long rides.  Others decide they want to target the long events, so they set their bike up in a position to suit that and ride like that all the time, to give them the benefit of training in position.  That will put them in a sub-optimal position for short events, but you have to decide what your priorities are and train for those. 

I believe Hippy rides his TT bike in the same position for everything up to 24 hours, and it doesn't seem to slow him down at any distance.  I believe he's spent a fair bit of time and money on getting properly fitted to iron out any physiological niggles though?  I believe he's doing the Transcon, but I don't know what he's doing about that. 

[zigzag]

i found that i prefer the saddle pushed back, to take the weight off my arms but still keeping my back fairly horizontal. general advice (that doesn't work for me) is to sit higher up, hence the abundance of "sportive" or "endurance" type frames with tall head tubes.

[Karla]

i found that i prefer the saddle pushed back, to take the weight off my arms but still keeping my back fairly horizontal. general advice (that doesn't work for me) is to sit higher up, hence the abundance of "sportive" or "endurance" type frames with tall head tubes.

Interesting you should say that.  I've moved my saddle lower and further back this year and have found that while it puts a bit more strain on my knees, it allows me to go lower at the front but with less strain on my neck.  I've always struggled with the head/neck, so for me this is a win. 

I've needed to work my position back over the winter though: at one point I went too fast and had to lay off for a bit with knee troubles.  It's also working my quads a lot more, as opposed to my glutes, so I suspect I won't be back to full form until next year when I've strengthened those more.

[zigzag]

it might take some time to get used to, but i've been riding like that for years and it seems natural and without any side effects. my current challenge is that i can't get comfortable sitting forward on the tt bike, so mersey roads next week will be "interesting"

[Karla]

Move it back to match your road bike?  A more rearward position can still be very aero: look at photos of the current big testers and you'll notice that a lot of them are not in the high & forward triathlon-style positions of yesteryear.

[zigzag]

Move it back to match your road bike?  A more rearward position can still be very aero: look at photos of the current big testers and you'll notice that a lot of them are not in the high & forward triathlon-style positions of yesteryear.

i've tried it and it doesn't quite work due to the fact that it's too tight for my bits down there. i've settled for a position that's somewhere in between the road/audax and tt, nose of the saddle is ~3cm behind the bb (9cm on audax bikes). still one week left for experimenting, thanks for the advice

[citoyen]

i found that i prefer the saddle pushed back, to take the weight off my arms but still keeping my back fairly horizontal. general advice (that doesn't work for me) is to sit higher up, hence the abundance of "sportive" or "endurance" type frames with tall head tubes.

Interesting you should say that.  I've moved my saddle lower and further back this year and have found that while it puts a bit more strain on my knees, it allows me to go lower at the front but with less strain on my neck.  I've always struggled with the head/neck, so for me this is a win. 

I've needed to work my position back over the winter though: at one point I went too fast and had to lay off for a bit with knee troubles.  It's also working my quads a lot more, as opposed to my glutes, so I suspect I won't be back to full form until next year when I've strengthened those more.

The outcome of a recent bike fitting for me was to drop the saddle significantly and move the saddle forward, but also increasing stem length by 20mm (more than the amount the saddle was moved). The fitter moved my cleats forward as well.

I haven't done enough riding since the fitting to draw any meaningful conclusions but first impressions are very favourable. I did worry that the longer stem might have a negative effect on handling, but I like it so far.

The aim of the fitting was to improve bike position for endurance events, so I'll be very interested to see how I feel after the next audax.

[zigzag]

^^ i would be interested to know what was the theory behind these adjustments. cleats moved forward put more strain on achilles tendon, regarding other adjustments - if it works then great!
sometimes i get curious about a different position for long rides, however i'm reluctant to change anything on the setup that's tried and tested and works so well for me.

[dim]

use this calculator ... and use the results from the 1st chart (Eddy fit):

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/Store/catalog/fitCalculatorBike.jsp#type

I have had several bikes in the past few months, and the Eddy fit worked best on all bikes .... use it as a start, then adjust the saddle position/height slightly if needed, and also the height of the handlebars.

I've just bought a Giant TCR and worked to the Eddy fit.... seems fine and very comfortable so far but the furthest that I have been on the bike is 62km (today) ... I will try a 140km next weekend an hopefully I will be fine (I'm also well pleased with the new Brooks Cambium Carved saddle)

[Graham the gorilla]

Hi I had a bike fit on my tcr at the time I was doing club runs, when I started audaxiing I had a endurance fit. The seat was moved back and down, this would help engage my hamstrings/glutes rather than predominantly quads. The cleats were positioned all the way back, I now pedal flat footed rather than toe down, this has stopped my calves aching and stopped my hot foot on longer rides. I have a power meter, my 5 and 10 minute power is down but my 20 minute power was not effected and there was less drop off when doing 20 minute repeats.

cheers

[citoyen]

^^ i would be interested to know what was the theory behind these adjustments. cleats moved forward put more strain on Achilles' tendon

It's all relative, I guess - my cleats were set very far back before.

Obviously my adjustments were based on how my bike was set up prior to the fitting, which is likely very different to your bike set-up.

I'm not suggesting anyone should copy my set-up (unless they're exactly the same size as me), I only mention my experience of changing the stem to highlight that relative position of bars and saddle can be adjusted without necessarily altering saddle position relative to the bottom bracket, which could potentially be better for the knees.

[citoyen]

I should also add that moving the saddle forward doesn't feel like it has put more weight on my arms, but that will be the combined effect of all the adjustments - it will be different if you're just moving the saddle and leaving everything else the same.

[zigzag]

yes i agree, all adjustments combined have a different effect, than making adjustments to only one of the contact points.

taking your example i can imagine that your upper body moved forward by a couple centimetres, while feet moved slightly back, hence the centre of gravity shifted forward by a few cm. forward position of cleats engages calves more (=more power?) which perhaps counteract the forward upper body?

[citoyen]

Yes, that sounds about right.

[Karla]

I guess that lowering your saddle has also caused you to take more weight on your feet, which will have counteracted the effects of moving forward.

[Ian H]

Best not to mess stuff too close to the event.  Though I suppose it depends on how much you're prepared to suffer (© J Hopper).

[velosam]

I should also add that moving the saddle forward doesn't feel like it has put more weight on my arms, but that will be the combined effect of all the adjustments - it will be different if you're just moving the saddle and leaving everything else the same.

I had a similar experience where after a bikefit my saddle was moved higher and more forward, almost by 2cm. Stem length remained the same. The key benefit that I gained from this was that the ache in my neck and shoulders subsidised sufficiently for me to ride a little more e.g commute 2 days in a row, whereas before, I would be in agony on the way back home.

[morbihan]

Great feedback, cheers.

I'll play with pushing the seat back a wee bit. I have subconsciously slid back in the saddle during endurance rides to give the quads a rest.

My bikes are custom fit by the builder who used a fit machine, but they were set up for racing/riding hard. (as requested)
The set-up is great for one day solid efforts but I do get problems in the hands/arms when thrashing for long periods.