Author Topic: What's caffeinating you today?  (Read 128966 times)

Re: What's caffeinating you today?
« Reply #525 on: 03 October, 2018, 03:53:39 pm »
i drink filter as well as espresso, but I confess I never leave it to stew, I just brew what I need so I've no idea how these coffees keep hot flavour over time.

If you leave it stewing it tastes horrid. I use a filter machine that has no hotplate but has a thermal carafe instead.

 
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: What's caffeinating you today?
« Reply #526 on: 03 October, 2018, 04:12:15 pm »
Ham is right.

What you describe that you like is actually fairly low grade commercial grade brazil with a hefty chunk of robusta. But you are paying way over the odds for it.

I think you may havee been trying the wrong 'speciality' coffees. If you ask them for filter they are going to sell you light roast, acidic, floral stuff, like Yirgacheff, or some of the rental central American beans and by the sound of it that is not your thing.

It sounds like you need Indonesian, or any of the conventional espresso blends such as the ones Ham mentions.Just avoid anything less than medium-dark roast.  And no, just because it is called espresso doesn't mean it won't be lovely in a filter. What you will get is something of a much better quality for the same or less money than you pay now. It is well worth speaking to Richard Jansz at Compass and telling him what flavours you like.

Trust me on this  ;)

Re: What's caffeinating you today?
« Reply #527 on: 03 October, 2018, 04:31:48 pm »
i drink filter as well as espresso, but I confess I never leave it to stew, I just brew what I need so I've no idea how these coffees keep hot flavour over time.

If you leave it stewing it tastes horrid. I use a filter machine that has no hotplate but has a thermal carafe instead.

Oh look, my nose has stopped wrinkling up with carefully hidden disgust ;)

If you want a point of reference, I like the Cafe Grand Mere Degustation, the CC French Breakfast Blend is similar but ...urm... more betterer?  I've also now bought a grinder from them (the Molino) and moved over to buying beans, which adds to the morning enjoyment with the aroma.

T42

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Re: What's caffeinating you today?
« Reply #528 on: 03 October, 2018, 05:11:34 pm »
And the whizzing grinder adds to the wake-up effect.

Next stop is to buy a popcorn popper and a kilo of green beans and start roasting your own. Try some Sidamo to start with, it's kind to beginners. But take the battery out of the smoke alarm first.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Re: What's caffeinating you today?
« Reply #529 on: 04 October, 2018, 08:04:02 am »
If you want a point of reference, I like the Cafe Grand Mere Degustation, the CC French Breakfast Blend is similar but ...urm... more betterer?  I
Thats always been our goto coffee when shopping in Carrafour or Erics on holiday.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: What's caffeinating you today?
« Reply #530 on: 04 October, 2018, 07:03:38 pm »
Grand Mère is the French equivalent of Kenco. The most mass of the mass market brands. It is years (probably 25) since I have drunk it. At least the black packet stuff you like is Arabica. The standard stuff is pure shite. Robusta city.

As Ham says, you'll get other roasters able to provide similar flavour profile, by using similar varietals...But using better grade of beans. Compare side to side and you'll notice the difference in the cup.

Re: What's caffeinating you today?
« Reply #531 on: 04 October, 2018, 07:48:15 pm »
To be precise, Grand Mere is Dowe Egberts (Carte Noir, not too dissimilar, is Lavazza) blended for the French market.

They are what they are: adequate mass market coffee that makes a reasonably pleasant drink. What they lack is the "Fuck, Yeah!" quality of a good cup of coffee. To put it  in technical terms.

Re: What's caffeinating you today?
« Reply #532 on: 04 October, 2018, 09:02:29 pm »
The problem with Italian coffee (and to an extent, French) is that it is one dimensional. It hasn't changed with the times, which is a shame because the coffee growing industry, and in particular the on-farm processing techniques, are a universe away from where they were even 15 years ago.  Italian coffee used to be the byword for quality blending but what they were really good at was hiding a multitude of sins (shite coffee packed out with shite robusta), which was a legacy of Italian poverty up until the 60s and 70s. There is no attempt at any sort of appellation, and indeed with Italian coffees they often talk about 'secret' blends. There is a reason why they keep it a secret and it is all to do with concealing just what shit they put in it.

You have a Coffee in Italy, and you know what you are going to get. It's treated not with reverence, but with the same attitude towards a decent cup of builder's tea. It's functional rather than epicurean.  As it stands, I quite like it, but I wouldn't want to drink it all the time.

It's a complete contrast with the Anglo (Aus, UK, US) scene where openness is the norm. No attempt to obscure the origin of the coffee and most of the roasters will tell you which farm and also which process (which gives a clue as to some of the likely flavour styles). Yes, it can get a bit wanky because in a saturated market roasters are looking for a USP, often with a price to match.

Personally, I really don't get what some of the trendier roasteries are trying to do...stick what would normally be top-grade filter coffee and stick it through an espresso machine. Doesn't work for me, but clearly works for some.

Mmmmm....coffee.

It's been 9 hours since I had a cup and I'm fucking gagging for one.


Re: What's caffeinating you today?
« Reply #533 on: 04 October, 2018, 09:47:10 pm »
To be precise, Grand Mere is Dowe Egberts (Carte Noir, not too dissimilar, is Lavazza) blended for the French market.

They are what they are: adequate mass market coffee that makes a reasonably pleasant drink. What they lack is the "Fuck, Yeah!" quality of a good cup of coffee. To put it  in technical terms.

But in a gite surrounded by kids and inflatable pool toys using a coffee machine you don't know a reliably OK cup of coffee is what you want. You don't have time to go searching for wherever the local trendy roastary is (and its probably not open on a Saturday teatime when you have just riven six hundred miles to get there). Whatever you can get from the nearest supermarket that gives a decent hit and tastes OK is fine. Any free time is for chasing down a great local red not coffee.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: What's caffeinating you today?
« Reply #534 on: 04 October, 2018, 09:48:55 pm »
The problem with Italian coffee (and to an extent, French) is that it is one dimensional. It hasn't changed with the times, which is a shame because the coffee growing industry, and in particular the on-farm processing techniques, are a universe away from where they were even 15 years ago.  Italian coffee used to be the byword for quality blending but what they were really good at was hiding a multitude of sins (shite coffee packed out with shite robusta), which was a legacy of Italian poverty up until the 60s and 70s. There is no attempt at any sort of appellation, and indeed with Italian coffees they often talk about 'secret' blends. There is a reason why they keep it a secret and it is all to do with concealing just what shit they put in it.

You have a Coffee in Italy, and you know what you are going to get. It's treated not with reverence, but with the same attitude towards a decent cup of builder's tea. It's functional rather than epicurean.  As it stands, I quite like it, but I wouldn't want to drink it all the time.

You see that's the thing I don't want New Coke I want the original.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: What's caffeinating you today?
« Reply #535 on: 05 October, 2018, 07:04:02 am »
You are drinking Poundstretcher Economy Kola  ;D

Nothing 'new' about getting coffee from a decent roaster. Same style, just without all the glaring and semi-concealed faults. Maybe give it a go and see what you think. Nothing to lose.

PaulF

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Re: What's caffeinating you today?
« Reply #536 on: 05 October, 2018, 07:14:28 am »
Nothing yet :( and when I do it will probably be “conference swill” unless this train miraculously makes up some of its delay

Re: What's caffeinating you today?
« Reply #537 on: 05 October, 2018, 09:01:26 am »
Nothing 'new' about getting coffee from a decent roaster. Same style, just without all the glaring and semi-concealed faults. Maybe give it a go and see what you think. Nothing to lose.

I think you missed the bit where I said I had spent several years trying different coffees from small roasteries ...
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: What's caffeinating you today?
« Reply #538 on: 05 October, 2018, 09:23:10 am »
The French are only just getting into high-quality coffee, but it's a long haul.  Living in Alsace complicates things, since we don't have even the same vocabulary as the rest of France. Ask for un café in France proper and you get an espresso. Un café here is usually filter out of a jug off a hotplate. If you want a ristretto you ask for a café bien serré.  Try that in Alsace and the reply is quoi?  You have to ask for an expresso and bien serré just gets you a puzzled look.  A café au lait here is a crème there, and a crème here is a cup of filter coffee with a couple of plastic potlets of cream on the saucer.  And in the rest of France you can ask for a petit jus and get a coffee, whereas here they ask orange or tomato? *

Anyway, until very recently the standard coffee in French bars was robusta and, as Mr Flatus observes, pretty shite robusta at that. Good for waking up after lunch but not much else.  While there are a few good roasters à la Bella Barista & so forth, most of the bar coffee you get is still crap, and even if it starts out as decent coffee it's usually murdered in the making: people here expect an espresso cup to be full, so that it almost invariably contains the most bitter coffee fractions. Most bars have semi-automatic machines so that asking for anything out of the ordinary at busy meal-times isn't likely to work: if it's not on a button you're out of luck.

In the end, this means that if you buy supermarket instant, the chances are that it won't be much worse than the stuff they'll give you after dinner in even a decent restaurant.

* In re vocab differences: in the rest of France a godet is a small plastic beaker, while in Alsace it's a dildo. Well, it can be that in the rest of France too but Alsace only deals in dildos. Here you ask for a goblet**, like Young Lochinvar.

** is goblet the diminutive of gob?
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Re: What's caffeinating you today?
« Reply #539 on: 05 October, 2018, 09:31:47 am »
Nothing 'new' about getting coffee from a decent roaster. Same style, just without all the glaring and semi-concealed faults. Maybe give it a go and see what you think. Nothing to lose.

I think you missed the bit where I said I had spent several years trying different coffees from small roasteries ...

small =/= good, especially these days.


ETA - you may have noted earlier in this thread that I had also got fed up with wanky coffee and had settled on adequate bulk commercial offerings. It was bringing back some Serrano coffee from Cuba that got me back onto the quest. Flatus' recommendation proved not only to be a source of decent Cuban coffee but of some really great blends.


Re: What's caffeinating you today?
« Reply #540 on: 05 October, 2018, 10:50:09 am »
Pat

I didn't miss your point about having tried different roasteries, but I've made a bad job of trying to explain the current state of the coffee industry to you.

Some background on me. Serial fresh coffee drinker for 40 years. Fanatical interest in coffee to the point of having spent time on coffee plantations in Cuba, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Laos, Burma and Vietnam.  I roasted my own coffee until 2 years ago when I sold my roasting machine. Just prior to that I had started setting up my own coffee roasting business until I realised that the market was over-saturated and I'd missed the boat by about 5 years, making the venture too much of a risk.

The coffee industry in the UK used to be dominated by medium size roasteries producing commercial grade coffee. Very little knowledge involved and not much care. Robusta heavy, and then cremated to fuck.

Then along came the 3rd wave, from US and Australia, focusing on medium and lighter roasted coffee. Lots of central american, and east African beans that cannot take a darker roast, really floral and acidic rather than the choc/caramel flavours you like.

This 3rd wave has been pushed to the extreme, to the point that pretty much all of the retail roasters that you will come across (As opposed to trade suppliers) feel obliged to take this approach.  If you see anything labelled 'artisan' or 'speciality' whether it be cafe or roastery it will be dominated by lighter fruitier coffees of a type that you don't like.

I don't like them either, or at least not in espresso based drinks. For me these coffees are best suited to low-dose pour over methods or all the subtlety is lost.

There are very very few roasteries with a public profile that produce 'traditional' style (ie. medium-dark to dark roast, South American, Indonesian heavy blends) and those that do are very a bit too traditional in that they still use shit beans and burn them.

Which is why somebody like Coffee Compass is. bit of a rare gem...otherwise I wouldn't be recommending them. I was chuffed when somebody pointed me to them about 5  years ago, as I was utterly sick of the 3rd wave hipster wank coffee. I haven't found a better source of Italian-style coffee.

T42: it's nearly 30 years since I lived in France (Rhone Alpes/Loire) and then if you asked for a coffee you go an under-extracted espresso (ie. too much water, not enough beans)  made from junk grade coffee.

Bizarrely I quite liked it at the time, but on the rare occasions I go to France and have the same all I can taste is the glaring faults. The French, just like the Italians, can't see past their own gastronomic culture.

T42

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Re: What's caffeinating you today?
« Reply #541 on: 05 October, 2018, 01:36:04 pm »
T42: it's nearly 30 years since I lived in France (Rhone Alpes/Loire) and then if you asked for a coffee you go an under-extracted espresso (ie. too much water, not enough beans)  made from junk grade coffee.

Bizarrely I quite liked it at the time, but on the rare occasions I go to France and have the same all I can taste is the glaring faults. The French, just like the Italians, can't see past their own gastronomic culture.

That pretty well describes restaurant & bar coffee, and the attitude.  But I've seen it denounced in German press articles too, not in respect of coffee but of industry in general: we are the great engineers therefore anything we do is perfect by definition - and this extends to building your Merc after three lunchtime pints.

Re shite arabica & shite robusta, since my usual delivery went astray last week I've been drinking a so-called Italian blend from a local roaster. He uses Viet robusta and God knows what else, and I've had an awful lot of indigestion this week.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Torslanda

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Re: What's caffeinating you today?
« Reply #542 on: 13 October, 2018, 10:42:58 am »


But in a gite surrounded by kids and inflatable pool toys using a coffee machine you don't know a reliably OK cup of coffee is what you want. You don't have time to go searching for wherever the local trendy roastary is (and its probably not open on a Saturday teatime when you have just riven six hundred miles to get there). Whatever you can get from the nearest supermarket that gives a decent hit and tastes OK is fine. Any free time is for chasing down a great local red not coffee.

Amen, Reverend!
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

Re: What's caffeinating you today?
« Reply #543 on: 29 October, 2018, 11:25:34 pm »
https://www.theguardian.com/food/shortcuts/2018/oct/29/moka-pot-machine-filter-or-instant-which-produces-the-best-coffee?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


Bialetti in trouble is sad news , but if you make products that don't wear out ......   


I'm using a 2 cup Brikka & enjoy the output when made with decent beans ground in a Porlex.  Other than that I've been drinking lots of French Press stuff, just dial the grind back a bit.  This gives me a few good sized mugs.


On a whim I recently  bought an Alessi 9090 3 cup pot , it's very pretty & the coffee isn't bad, but 3 cups is an awkward size, so this may be in Classifieds shortly.
Not fast & rarely furious

tweeting occasional in(s)anities as andrewxclark

ElyDave

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Re: What's caffeinating you today?
« Reply #544 on: 31 October, 2018, 08:41:37 am »
Sticking with my Brazilian Smallholders Co-operative from my local roastery.  Works very well in my Sage grinder and espresso machine. 

I also bought a bag of the arabic coffee with cardamom [sp?] on my recent Saudi trip, haven't made any yet, but the secret seems to be a long boil, 5 mins or so.
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: What's caffeinating you today?
« Reply #545 on: 31 October, 2018, 08:58:59 am »
Nothing.

Given up caffeine. 2 weeks into it. Coffee Compass do a decent range of decaff that is about 90% as good as the normal stuff.

hillbilly

Re: What's caffeinating you today?
« Reply #546 on: 14 December, 2018, 02:05:46 pm »
Several years ago, this very thread got me thinking about buying an espresso machine.  Due to natural thriftiness and borderline indolence, I put it off until the tail end of last month until I eventually got over my indecision about whether a Gaggia, Ranccilo or some other mid-price machine would be best.  I got a Silvia paired with a Virtuoso grinder.  It is wonderful.  I doubt my coffee drinking will be the same again, given this morning the stars aligned and the machine produced a thick crema from Union Revelation beans that pissed over almost every shop bought coffee I've ever had.  That is all.

Re: What's caffeinating you today?
« Reply #547 on: 14 December, 2018, 03:00:35 pm »
I had a Silvia until 2011. It's a great machine, apart from poor temperature stability which causes very very inconsistent results unless you follow a strict protocol with a stopwatch...


....which is a pain in the arse.


I fitted a PID to it, which pulsed the power in so there was no great temperature variation. It produced results consistently on a par with my £1800 machine.

Just fit one. Trust me on this.

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: What's caffeinating you today?
« Reply #548 on: 14 December, 2018, 03:19:00 pm »
A PID will make it a hell of a lot easier to sell when you want to upgrade, too.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

hillbilly

Re: What's caffeinating you today?
« Reply #549 on: 14 December, 2018, 04:51:40 pm »
Ah, I didn't realise there was a lot of temperature variability.  It explains some comments I read about needing to "understand the idiosyncrasies of the boiler lights".