Audax entry etiquette

[Jamesha]

Thanks for the responses everyone - I do not think I have ever posted anything which has stirred such debate 

To clarify my original query I was intending to start just one of the rides - not start the 200 and then give up and try to claim the 100.

My concern is riding a 200 in poor weather in November and whether I would make it. If the forecast the day before was for reasonable weather I would ride the 200 but, if the weather was going to be poor, I would ride the 100 (or 110 in this case).

After considering some of the advice given I am thinking I might enter the 200km and, if I am struggling, would turn around after 50 odd km.

The 200km route is mostly an out and back route so lends itself to this.

Thanks to everyone who posted.

[Karla]

Seriously, ask the organiser what they suggest.  What we have to say here has zero bearing on what they consider 'etiquette' for their ride.

[Wycombewheeler]

I think there was some sound advice. If feeling like packing stop, have something to eat, see how you feel. Amazing how much better some food made me feel 700km into a 1000km ride in the summer.

Do they have entry on the line? On which case no need to choose. Otherwise just enter the 200, especially if the 100 follows much the same route. No points for 100s anyway so not much lost if you have both routes loaded on your gps. Just remember to let the organiser know if there are any manned controls you will be skipping. Most important thinv is to make sure no one is waiting for you anywhere, if you don't start or don't finish.

[Karla]

I think there was some sound advice. If feeling like packing stop, have something to eat, see how you feel. Amazing how much better some food made me feel 700km into a 1000km ride in the summer.

You might know that it's good advice because you're not a newbie.  The OP won't be able to tell whether it's good or bad advice (but has apparently made a decision based on it anyway). 

Sources of info with a high level of verifiability to someone not already in the know are:

1) The rules and regs that the organiser is bound by
2) The organiser's own mouth
3) Getting out there, riding some events and finding out what the etiquette actually is, and who can be trusted to give you good advice on the points you don't know.

Asking Adam 'n Steve on an anonymous web forum for something you could have got from one of those three sources is always a bad idea.

[mattc]

True, but the vast majority of riders get 4 or 5 points from that event; hence the parallel with ECEs where you have a sort-of "optional" 100-200km ride after your "main" ride.

<snip>

That was a bad weather year and distances were down on normal, with half the field packing.

Interesting (I suppose) ... do you have a point? I'm not that thrilled by stats, sorry

Tell you what, here are last year's stats to drive it home
400: 4 riders
500: 8 riders
600: 9 riders
700: 8 riders

That's a pretty small 'overwhelming majority' you've got there.

But how does this affect the parallel with ECEs?

OK, to keep you happy, I'll update my comment:

I can think of another slight parallel with 24hr TT's, they count as AUK rides but you are not required to commit to a minimum distance in advance

You have to achieve a minimum of 360km in order to get AUK points.

True, but the vast majority of riders get 4-7 points from that event; hence the parallel with ECEs where you have a sort-of "optional" 100-200km ride after your "main" ride.

Happy? 

[marylogic]

I think there was some sound advice. If feeling like packing stop, have something to eat, see how you feel. Amazing how much better some food made me feel 700km into a 1000km ride in the summer.

You might know that it's good advice because you're not a newbie.  The OP won't be able to tell whether it's good or bad advice (but has apparently made a decision based on it anyway). 

Sources of info with a high level of verifiability to someone not already in the know are:

1) The rules and regs that the organiser is bound by
2) The organiser's own mouth
3) Getting out there, riding some events and finding out what the etiquette actually is, and who can be trusted to give you good advice on the points you don't know.

Asking Adam 'n Steve on an anonymous web forum for something you could have got from one of those three sources is always a bad idea.

I appreciate that in this case it would be best to ask the organiser, but surely it isn't always a bad idea to raise a query here first?

There may be someone who can give a definitive answer and thus save troubling the org who is probably quite busy in the run up to their event. It also means the answer is "out there" for anyone else with the same query, possibly saving several more emails to the org?

[mr ben]

Thanks for the responses everyone - I do not think I have ever posted anything which has stirred such debate 

Excellent work Nemesis! 

I echo the suggestion to check with the organiser if you'd like to keep your options open.  FWIW I've 'swapped' a couple of times on Chris Crossland's rides.  On one occasion there were two 400 kms running simultaneously, one more hilly and remote than the other, and Chris offered entrants the chance to swap between them in advance if they thought it prudent (I was feeling decidedly un-audacious and took up the offer).  Another time I'd entered a 100 km but as a result of rail replacement buses and getting lost I was an hour late for the start at which point riders on the associated 50 km were just setting off, so after dispatching them he transferred me to the 50 km.  All much appreciated.  I dare say it will vary between orgs and depend on amongst other things whether they take entries on the line.

[Banjo]

I think Nemesis has com e up with the perfect solution.

If he enters the 100km ride he gets to ride a pleasant 100km ride from Tewkesbury but gets no points .

If he enters the 200 km cwrch turns around at 50 kms and retraces back he gets to ride a pleasant 100km ride from Tewkesbury but gets no points.

If he enters the 200km feels good on the day and completes it then even better,

[mattc]

<snippage...>

I appreciate that in this case it would be best to ask the organiser, but surely it isn't always a bad idea to raise a query here first?

There may be someone who can give a definitive answer and thus save troubling the org who is probably quite busy in the run up to their event. It also means the answer is "out there" for anyone else with the same query, possibly saving several more emails to the org?

Indeed.

There is also the rare occasion that an organiser has his/her facts wrong, or is somehow contravening some obscure sub-paragraph of the regs; another rider/member here may know the correct answer. That organiser might even read this discussion, and everyone becomes wiser; hoorah!

[grams]

A lot of the written audax rules are fuzzily drafted, incomplete, open to interpretation, routinely flexed or otherwise don't tell much about how things are actually done.

Also many of the people here are event organisers, AUK bods and/or long term AUK members, so calling them anonymous internet randoms is somewhat wide of the mark.

[Charlie Polecat]

"I appreciate that in this case it would be best to ask the organiser, but surely it isn't always a bad idea to raise a query here first?

There may be someone who can give a definitive answer and thus save troubling the org who is probably quite busy in the run up to their event. It also means the answer is "out there" for anyone else with the same query, possibly saving several more emails to the org?"

For any of my perms riders seem to have no difficulty asking me what the score is to ride any of them. To reiterate what was said above - and well answered I thought - why ask the lady in the street what she thinks the shop's policy is before going inside the shop and asking the shop what their policy is? 

[mattc]

To reiterate what was said above - and well answered I thought - why ask the lady in the street what she thinks the shop's policy is before going inside the shop and asking the shop what their policy is? 

To reiterate what was said above - and well answered I thought - the shop may not be open, or the shopkeeper may be busy, or the shop may be selling fags to 14-year-olds, shopkeeper may not know about ProductX ... etc ... etc

i.e. lots of possible reasons 

[whosatthewheel]

Ultimately, if you have paid to enter a BR 200 and want to ride a shorter BP instead, you can do so on the day,just download the GPX file or the directions. Things only become problematic if you want to have a brevet card or to have a brevet card validated...

I would argue that a BP validated brevet has hardly any use at all, unless you are seriously collecting AAA points (and the event has some on offer)... but if you are, then surely you want to do the "more lucrative" BR instead.

[GavinC]

I would argue that a BP validated brevet has hardly any use at all, unless you are seriously collecting AAA points (and the event has some on offer)...

Or want to bag the odd FWC point 

[Ian H]

There is still the potential problem of overloading the controls on what is quite likely to be a better-subscribed event than an accompanying longer one.

[Graeme]

There is a slight problem with entering the 200 but riding the 100 'if you feel like it'... insurance. This may sound like a technicality, and I'm not trying to be a jobsworth about it, but if you are going to ride an audax it is best to be entered into it. Then you are covered, the riders near you benefit from you being covered if you should cause an accident, and the organiser is covered if you create a third party problem.

Following through this thread you seem to have a whole bunch of choices, but from A.N.Organiser's perspective I would prefer to know what you're planning so that it can be official. And not least so that I don't worry about whether you are okay.

Anyway - have fun! The goal of your question seemed to be to ensure that you had a nice day out; so I hope you do.

[Kim]

I would argue that a BP validated brevet has hardly any use at all, unless you are seriously collecting AAA points (and the event has some on offer)...

Or want to bag the odd FWC point 

It might do if you're aiming for one of the Brevet awards.  I'd suggest that, say, the Brevet 500 would be consistent with not feeling confident about ones ability to complete a 200.

[Delph Cyclist]

... and everyone becomes wiser; hoorah!

or at least, better informed.  Wisdom might be too much to ask.

[Karla]

<snip>

I appreciate that in this case it would be best to ask the organiser, but surely it isn't always a bad idea to raise a query here first?

There may be someone who can give a definitive answer and thus save troubling the org who is probably quite busy in the run up to their event. It also means the answer is "out there" for anyone else with the same query, possibly saving several more emails to the org?

An answer is only definitive if the questioner knows it's definitive.  A questioner who is asking newbie questions on internet forums is very seldom going to have the prior knowledge to work out who is and isn't talking crap - so even if the person answering their query is very well-versed, the amount of reliable information now possessed by the questioner is still zero. 

To give an example from a slightly different case: someone I bumped into on facebook is currently spending several £k on a new bike, because he tried to get a bike fit off one of the facebook time trialling groups; there were some people on there talking sense, but many more talking rubbish, but he chose to trust them. 

I've organised events and received my fair share of silly emails, but if an organiser is getting several emails asking the same question, they should have put that piece of info on the event webpage, or made it more prominent, or more explicit.  To lapse back into time trialling, that sport is several years behind Audax in this regard.  Courses are still known by codes (e.g. V718/1), which is all well and good except that lots of them don't have maps, and are only knonwn by a description such as "Start by the third drain cover after the lamppost after the turning from Cartwright's lane" - i.e. completely useless for learning the course from a map.  A lot of the descriptions are either misleading, wrong or absent from the internet - you're supposed to find out from the cycling club secret squirrel network or somesuch, and if you're not closely connected enough to that network, you're screwed.  Yet suggest that organisers should all provide maps of their courses and you'll provoke howls of derision. 

If a piece of information can only come reliably from an organiser, participants deserve to get it from the organiser.  No ifs, no buts.