Campagnolo (10-speed) chainset dilemma

[DuncanM]

What cranks do you have on your other bikes?
I have 172.5 on my current road bike, 175 on my old road bike and (I think) 170 on my fixie and 170 on my MTB, just because that's how they came or those are the cranks I could get. I can't tell the difference when riding them, but maybe I don't do enough miles for it to be really noticeable.

[Oxford_Guy]

well it won't hurt to try them and see how you get on? 

You absolutely cannot say (on the basis of leg length alone) whether a give crank length will suit a particular rider or not, and to slavishly follow that advice when you already have cranks to try seems a bit daft to me.

 The real (measured) correlation between leg length and crank length is a weak one; there are plenty of long-legged folk who use short cranks and short-legged folk who use long cranks. Personal preference and (presumably) personal physiology are more important.

For example I use 175mm cranks offroad and they (and the lower cadence they engender) seem OK. But on the road I prefer 170mm ones and (if I could but get them in a modern form) I am pretty sure I would prefer 6-5/8" cranks over that.  I can't say whether physiology or habituation are more important in framing these choices, but I only discovered what worked for me by trial and error, not because someone measured my legs and dictated to me.

Possibly, though I think by nature I'm more of a high cadence spinner, than a slow cadence masher, so I can well believe that 175mm on a road bike might not work for me (bearing in mind I'm only 5'8"). I guess I could try it, but if it doesn't work out would mean likely needing to replace the bottom bracket, chainset and possibly the front derailleur, which would be a bit of a pain and expense (seeing as I would be paying the bike shop for the work). Also 170mm does seem to work well for me on my touring bike (and on my Brompton).

[Paul H]

Have you considered the Sugino cranks?  Not as bling as some, but pleasing to my eye and I have them on two bikes without problem, you could spend the change on better rings..  The newer model without the hidden bolt looks better than the old IMO  There's also the Alpina though I haven't seen it for sale anywhere recently.
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s109p3051/SPA-CYCLES-TD-2-Touring-Cranks

Congratulations on the ten years without a car and the significant birthday, I treated myself to a new bike for the same two reasons, though it didn't quite make it to my 60th.

[Oxford_Guy]

Have you considered the Sugino cranks?  Not as bling as some, but pleasing to my eye and I have them on two bikes without problem, you could spend the change on better rings..  The newer model without the hidden bolt looks better than the old IMO  There's also the Alpina though I haven't seen it for sale anywhere recently.
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s109p3051/SPA-CYCLES-TD-2-Touring-Cranks

Congratulations on the ten years without a car and the significant birthday, I treated myself to a new bike for the same two reasons, though it didn't quite make it to my 60th.

For a road bike, wouldn't the RD-2 cranks (130/74mm BCD triple instead of 110/74mm BCD) be more appropriate and might work better with Campagnolo triple derailleurs I have (which are designed to work with 135/74 BCD chainsets, though I know it's the chainring sizes that really matter) ? i.e. https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s109p3531/SPA-CYCLES-RD-2-Road-Cranks

I think with 130mm BCD you can't go smaller than 48/38 on the outer/middle rings, but that should be fine - something like 48/38/28 (which does seem to be a possibility in their RD-2-based cranksets: https://spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s109p3534/SPA-CYCLES-RD-2-Triple-Chainset-with-Zicral-Rings) or 50/38/28 could work.

For some reason their RD-2 chainset only comes with black rings, but I assume I could just buy the cranks and TA Specialities silver chain rings? Having said that TA specialities seem to explicitly say that their 130mm rings are NOT compatible with Campagnolo - or do they just mean not compatible with Campagnolo cranks, but would be fine with 10-speed Campagnolo chain? see: https://specialites-ta.com/plateaux/road/alize-chainring.html

I'm assuming they just mean their 130mm rings are not compatible with Campagnolo cranks, as don't mention any Campagnolo compatibility issues for their 110mm compact chainrings: https://specialites-ta.com/plateaux/road/zephyr-chainring.html

[giropaul]

Have you considered the Sugino cranks?  Not as bling as some, but pleasing to my eye and I have them on two bikes without problem, you could spend the change on better rings..  The newer model without the hidden bolt looks better than the old IMO  There's also the Alpina though I haven't seen it for sale anywhere recently.
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s109p3051/SPA-CYCLES-TD-2-Touring-Cranks

Congratulations on the ten years without a car and the significant birthday, I treated myself to a new bike for the same two reasons, though it didn't quite make it to my 60th.

For a road bike, wouldn't the RD-2 cranks (130/74mm BCD triple instead of 110/74mm BCD) be more appropriate and might work better with Campagnolo triple derailleurs I have (which are designed to work with 135/74 BCD chainsets, though I know it's the chainring sizes that really matter) ? i.e. https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s109p3531/SPA-CYCLES-RD-2-Road-Cranks

I think with 130mm BCD you can't go smaller than 48/38 on the outer/middle rings, but that should be fine - something like 48/38/28 (which does seem to be a possibility in their RD-2-based cranksets: https://spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s109p3534/SPA-CYCLES-RD-2-Triple-Chainset-with-Zicral-Rings) or 50/38/28 could work.

For some reason their RD-2 chainset only comes with black rings, but I assume I could just buy the cranks and TA Specialities silver chain rings? Having said that TA specialities seem to explicitly say that their 130mm rings are NOT compatible with Campagnolo - or do they just mean not compatible with Campagnolo cranks, but would be fine with 10-speed Campagnolo chain? see: https://specialites-ta.com/plateaux/road/alize-chainring.html

“Usual” TA rings aren’t Campagnolo Record/Chorus ( maybe others) compatible because the fitting behind the crank is a slightly different bcd. However, TA do compatible rings - TA Horus . Strong light also do compatible ceramic coated black rings.

[Oxford_Guy]

Have you considered the Sugino cranks?  Not as bling as some, but pleasing to my eye and I have them on two bikes without problem, you could spend the change on better rings..  The newer model without the hidden bolt looks better than the old IMO  There's also the Alpina though I haven't seen it for sale anywhere recently.
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s109p3051/SPA-CYCLES-TD-2-Touring-Cranks

Congratulations on the ten years without a car and the significant birthday, I treated myself to a new bike for the same two reasons, though it didn't quite make it to my 60th.

For a road bike, wouldn't the RD-2 cranks (130/74mm BCD triple instead of 110/74mm BCD) be more appropriate and might work better with Campagnolo triple derailleurs I have (which are designed to work with 135/74 BCD chainsets, though I know it's the chainring sizes that really matter) ? i.e. https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s109p3531/SPA-CYCLES-RD-2-Road-Cranks

I think with 130mm BCD you can't go smaller than 48/38 on the outer/middle rings, but that should be fine - something like 48/38/28 (which does seem to be a possibility in their RD-2-based cranksets: https://spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s109p3534/SPA-CYCLES-RD-2-Triple-Chainset-with-Zicral-Rings) or 50/38/28 could work.

For some reason their RD-2 chainset only comes with black rings, but I assume I could just buy the cranks and TA Specialities silver chain rings? Having said that TA specialities seem to explicitly say that their 130mm rings are NOT compatible with Campagnolo - or do they just mean not compatible with Campagnolo cranks, but would be fine with 10-speed Campagnolo chain? see: https://specialites-ta.com/plateaux/road/alize-chainring.html

“Usual” TA rings aren’t Campagnolo Record/Chorus ( maybe others) compatible because the fitting behind the crank is a slightly different bcd. However, TA do compatible rings - TA Horus . Strong light also do compatible ceramic coated black rings.

So nothing to do with any incompatibility with 10-speed Campagnolo chain?

Not interested in black chain rings on this bike BTW

[Brucey]

FWIW it isn't that difficult to get a workable set of campag triple cranks, there are several sets of 170mm length ones on e-bay right now. IIRC they use the same (or very similar) BB spindle so if (say ) you buy veloce or mirage even it isn't difficult to change them.

Thus if you don't get on with the 175mm ones you can fit different cranks without changing the BB, and swap your chainrings over without a problem.

BTW since cranks get marked up anyway, I don't mind a set of lightly used cranks; they soon look 'lightly used' anyway after a few hundred miles.

cheers

[Oxford_Guy]

FWIW it isn't that difficult to get a workable set of campag triple cranks, there are several sets of 170mm length ones on e-bay right now. IIRC they use the same (or very similar) BB spindle so if (say ) you buy veloce or mirage even it isn't difficult to change them.

Thus if you don't get on with the 175mm ones you can fit different cranks without changing the BB, and swap your chainrings over without a problem.

BTW since cranks get marked up anyway, I don't mind a set of lightly used cranks; they soon look 'lightly used' anyway after a few hundred miles.

There is that, wouldn't even need a whole chainset, just the cranks. Would prefer NOS condition or at least near-mint used, though, as would be shame to put tatty chainrings on brand new bike, and strangely I never seem to mark mine up that much (e.g. logos rubbing off), whereas my wife seems to be able to make hers looks worn after only a few months...

I think I read somewhere that the Record Triple cranks are asymmetric, though, so if I got those would need a different bottom bracket with an asymmetric spindle

I did find this NOS 170mm Veloce Triple, though it's Power Torque and not as pretty as my 175mm Comp Triple: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Campagnolo-Veloce-10-Speed-Triple-Chainset-50-39-30-170mm/232788765553

I guess that would mean I could switch to a PT Compact chainset if I later wanted to, though, as the BB shell would already be faced for PT (though wouldn't be so great if I wanted to switch to square taper, for the same reason...)

Also found a NOS 170mm Mirage Triple, though it's 52/42/32 - 52T would be usable with a 13T small cog, but 42T I think would be too high as a cruising ring - could I swap that out for a 40T or would the pins and ramps then not line up with the 52T ring? Or I guess I could just swap out the rings entirely for a different 135mm/74mm set e.g. the 50/40/30 from my Comp Triple?

[jsabine]

I think I read somewhere that the Record Triple cranks are asymmetric, though, so if I got those would need a different bottom bracket with an asymmetric spindle

I'm running Record Triple quite happily on a symmetrically installed Royce BB, so wouldn't worry about it.

(I also think I read somewhere that the asymmetric Record BB was only actually asymmetric with Italian BB cups, and that the spindle was symmetrical with BSA cups - something to do with 68 vs 70mm shell width perhaps. That could be utter bollocks though.)

[Brucey]

they did some weird things with their triples when they are fitted to frames with oversize seat tubes and/or Italian BBs. I don't know all the details but IIRC sometimes they suggest a 115mm BB is the right one to use.

 I find this hard to swallow because I have found that the exact same cranks fit OK onto some frames with a BB spindle as short as 102mm...

cheers

[Oxford_Guy]

they did some weird things with their triples when they are fitted to frames with oversize seat tubes and/or Italian BBs. I don't know all the details but IIRC sometimes they suggest a 115mm BB is the right one to use.

 I find this hard to swallow because I have found that the exact same cranks fit OK onto some frames with a BB spindle as short as 102mm...

BTW the frame will be non-oversized steel tubing and English thread (68mm) BB shell

As for the BB spindle length, I know that, for my Comp Triple, Campagnolo say (in the included instructions) that it needs a 111mm spindle length for non-oversized tubes and a 115mm spindle length for oversized tubing

[Brucey]

on which case I'd try with the usual 111mm campag BB and change to something different if it proved necessary/desirable.

cheers

[Oxford_Guy]

Am still considering the 130mm BCD Spa/Sugino RD-2 triple crankset route, I assume there should be no issues running Campagnolo 10-speed ultra narrow chain on the TA Specialities 130mm BCD Alize chainrings?

48-38-28 and a 12-27 cassette would give me a nice range (27.4" to 105.5") and quite tight ratios and think my Campagnolo Comp Triple FD (which is meant for 50-40-30) would probably work fine with that, assuming the chainline would work well with a 10-speed campagnolo rear setup?

[Paul H]

I used the older Sugino 110 version, with 50/40/28 on an otherwise campag 9 speed set up, no issues.
I was seduced into changing it for a NOS Record at a good price, the only difference was the bling (I doubt anyone noticed) and having restricted BB options.

[tatanab]

Am still considering the 130mm BCD Spa/Sugino RD-2 triple crankset route, I assume there should be no issues running Campagnolo 10-speed ultra narrow chain on the TA Specialities 130mm BCD Alize chainrings?

48-38-28 and a 12-27 cassette would give me a nice range (27.4" to 105.5") and quite tight ratios and think my Campagnolo Comp Triple FD (which is meant for 50-40-30) would probably work fine with that, assuming the chainline would work well with a 10-speed campagnolo rear setup?

They are the TA chainrings  I use with Campag 10 speed.  Front mech - I used a Campag Triple with 50-40-24 quite happily.

[Oxford_Guy]

Am still considering the 130mm BCD Spa/Sugino RD-2 triple crankset route, I assume there should be no issues running Campagnolo 10-speed ultra narrow chain on the TA Specialities 130mm BCD Alize chainrings?

48-38-28 and a 12-27 cassette would give me a nice range (27.4" to 105.5") and quite tight ratios and think my Campagnolo Comp Triple FD (which is meant for 50-40-30) would probably work fine with that, assuming the chainline would work well with a 10-speed campagnolo rear setup?

They are the TA chainrings  I use with Campag 10 speed.  Front mech - I used a Campag Triple with 50-40-24 quite happily.

Good to know those TA chain rings are happy with Campag 10-speed. Do you think a Campag Triple mech would work with 48/38 outer/middle rings okay? I have two Campag FDs to choose from, a "QS" Comp Triple and a non-"QS" Centaur one (same era I think). My 2006 Veloce Ergos are non-QS, but I don't think it makes much difference.

[tatanab]

Do you think a Campag Triple mech would work with 48/38 outer/middle rings okay? I have two Campag FDs to choose from, a "QS" Comp Triple and a non-"QS" Centaur one (same era I think). My 2006 Veloce Ergos are non-QS, but I don't think it makes much difference.

Yes a triple mech will cope fine with that.  I use old Veloce and Daytona triple mechs on 46-36-24 and 48-36-24.

[Oxford_Guy]

Do you think a Campag Triple mech would work with 48/38 outer/middle rings okay? I have two Campag FDs to choose from, a "QS" Comp Triple and a non-"QS" Centaur one (same era I think). My 2006 Veloce Ergos are non-QS, but I don't think it makes much difference.

Yes a triple mech will cope fine with that.  I use old Veloce and Daytona triple mechs on 46-36-24 and 48-36-24.

Great, good to know. BTW assuming non-oversized frame tubing, what square taper BB spindle length do you need to get a good chainline with a Spa/Sugino or Stronglight triple chainset (and 10 speed Campagnolo RD/cassette)?

[tatanab]

Great, good to know. BTW assuming non-oversized frame tubing, what square taper BB spindle length do you need to get a good chainline with a Spa/Sugino or Stronglight triple chainset (and 10 speed Campagnolo RD/cassette)?

I don't use either of those chainsets so cannot say.  I have Record triple on a Record triple 111, a couple of Campag MTB triple on Veloce 111, and Campag MTB on Shimano 113.  All work fine but I do not have short chainstays and I am not a modern obsessive about chainline.  On a triple I like to keep the small ring as far inboard as I can get it.