Author Topic: Dilemma  (Read 4703 times)

clarion

  • Tyke
Dilemma
« on: 24 September, 2009, 11:33:42 pm »
Some of you know that we've had issues with our lovely if battered Dawes Super Galaxy this summer.

We've replaced the BB bearing races, and had to true the rear wheel.  But that wheel's hubs may be a bit knackered now.

I'll have a butchers at it, but I think we may need a new wheel.

Needs to be threaded for a hub brake, and we've been quoted £236 by JD.

By eck, that's a lot for a wheel (for a bike that is well on it's way to needing a respray :-\ ).  Especially when the Dawes is just an interim while we *ahem* save up for a Santana.

But, Ruth says they will have a Santana soon that will be a bit of a bargain. 

OK, so we don't have the dosh, but my car loan is paid off at last soon, so it wouldn't be completely ridiculous to take out a loan :o

Downsides? Well, it'll be Al rather than steel, which I'm not sure about.  And it won't have the S&S couplings we wanted so we could do train travel easier (at all :-\ ).

So.  Do we bite the bullet & go for it?  Or stick with the Dawes for longer, knowing that both wheels have a lot of life in them?  ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Getting there...

Re: Dilemma
« Reply #1 on: 24 September, 2009, 11:52:31 pm »
If you really want an ali frame with S & S couplings, how long would a regular steel frame satisfy you?  I'd wait for the real thing - but I don't have a good track record myself.

thing1

  • aka Joth
    • TandemThings
Re: Dilemma
« Reply #2 on: 25 September, 2009, 12:02:00 am »
'n other option: Tandem hub for £68 on flea bay Shimano 40 Hole Rear Tandem Road Bike Hub w/ Drum brake on eBay (end time  26-Sep-09 00:44:43 BST) (shipping from US)

SJS will build it into your current rim for £60 + p&p, or adjust price depending on choice of new rim and wheel builder.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Dilemma
« Reply #3 on: 25 September, 2009, 01:59:20 am »
I wouldn't buy another tandem without S&S couplers.  They make life much easier.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

PaulF

  • "World's Scariest Barman"
  • It's only impossible if you stop to think about it
Re: Dilemma
« Reply #4 on: 25 September, 2009, 02:16:00 am »
Who was it who said "Steel is real?"

:)

Re: Dilemma
« Reply #5 on: 25 September, 2009, 07:25:55 am »
Can you get S&S couplings on an alloy frame? AFAIK they're only available for titanium and steel frames.
The wheelbuilding prices you've seen seem pretty steep to me. 40 spokes, would be about £40 max and a wheel takes a relaxed evening to build. Why not borrow the tools and give it a go yourself.

Re: Dilemma
« Reply #6 on: 25 September, 2009, 07:51:30 am »
Mr C,

What's the cost of the ali tandem?  I note in your OP that you say ali is a downside anyway, so why even consider it?

A tandem under the bums is worth two tandems in your dreams.  Why not keep the SG going until such a time that it either dies, or that you can properly afford the Santana of your dreams, rather than a compromise model.   My Orbit Ventura was a compromise, in steel as well, but it was a rubbish bike.   

Compromise is often a bad choice driven by the heart rather than the head.
'n other option: Tandem hub for £68 on flea bay Shimano 40 Hole Rear Tandem Road Bike Hub w/ Drum brake on eBay (end time  26-Sep-09 00:44:43 BST) (shipping from US)

SJS will build it into your current rim for £60 + p&p, or adjust price depending on choice of new rim and wheel builder.


Reading the listing it seems that the hub can take a drum brake rather than coming with one.

Re: Dilemma
« Reply #7 on: 25 September, 2009, 08:24:12 am »
I think we really need to replace the whole wheel - it is quite old and shabby. The trouble with waiting till we can afford the actual tandem we want is that it could be a very long wait - it's likely to be well over twice as much as the aluminium one.

The current one needs a respray quite badly, but even with the new wheel and a respray, that is about a 5th of the price of the aluminium tandem and a 10th of the price (or less) than the 'dream' tandem. Even that is quite a lot for a weekend bike. :'(
Quote from: Kim
^ This woman knows what she's talking about.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Dilemma
« Reply #8 on: 25 September, 2009, 09:07:57 am »
:(  Yes.  No nearer knowing what to do. 

The positives about getting the SuperGal sorted are that it is a good all-round tandem, able to cope with more off-road than the stokers can, stable under load, and fast otherwise (wheels/BBs/pilot's lungs permitting :( ).

The negatives are that it's never going to suit our needs totally - fitting couplings isn't an option, so it isn't so useful for touring bacause we can't get it on a train so easily (forget about cars for the moment - I have to sell.  Hired vans & club cars are an option).  In addition, the stoker position is a bit of a compromise.  We have a seatpost (also dying) that has immense layback, just so there's room.  And, let's face it, Butterfly (tall though she is for a stoker, as we found on the Windsor ride) doesn't take up that much space, so, if she's cramped, it's cramped.

I'd love to strip the SuperGal down & respray, change over to STIs, maybe swap the brakes for Vs, stick randonneur bars on the front etc etc.  It'd be a lovely machine.  But it will never be all we need.

I guess that, now Superstoker is gaining more independence on his solo, we could consider cycle touring without a tandem.  But we enjoy it, and want to continue.

And, yes, steel is real.

The frustration is that we know what we want.  We want the Santana Arriva Niobium with S&S Couplings.  But that's £7k we don't have, and are unlikely to have for a while.
Getting there...

Re: Dilemma
« Reply #9 on: 25 September, 2009, 09:20:55 am »
I'd rather cough up a fifth and be riding now than wait until a tandem that you don't really want comes up for five times the price.   

If you strip the Galaxy I'm sure it can be resprayed by Vaz for instance at a very reasonable cost.   I personally wasn't overjoyed with their work on my Roberts tourer but then it depends upon what you need / want.

I'm sure some research could throw up a cheaper back wheel.   Even if not, maybe somebody might lend you one for a few months.    

No bike fits all purposes.  That's why we have n+1  ;)   

I'd love to strip the SuperGal down & respray, change over to STIs, maybe swap the brakes for Vs, stick randonneur bars on the front etc etc.  It'd be a lovely machine.  But it will never be all we need.

...

And, yes, steel is real.


What?  Ditch those cantis?   Are you going sane?  :D

Personally, I'd take time rather than compromise.   I wouldn't quite say I stalked Charlotte for Margaret Hilda, but, I did want her when she first came up for sale so kept close tabs and shuffled some money aside diligently until she did.    In spite of the nomenclature she is a true beauty, a steel bombshell with lusty intent.    I have an extensive makeover programme planned for her, including potentially S&S couplings.   Will have to wait a few years though whilst my current situation evolves.    I look in admiration at some of the new kit but Margaret Hilda is my first and only
true tandem love.     

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Dilemma
« Reply #10 on: 25 September, 2009, 11:07:40 am »
Can you get S&S couplings on an alloy frame? AFAIK they're only available for titanium and steel frames.

Generally you can't get aluminium S&S couplers but Santana have exclusive rights (for how much longer?) for Al S&S couplers on their frames. Coupler Specifications
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Dilemma
« Reply #11 on: 25 September, 2009, 11:21:19 am »
Out of interest, what size tandem would you be looking at?  Drops or straights?

R

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Dilemma
« Reply #12 on: 25 September, 2009, 11:23:56 am »
I ride a 22" solo, so generally 21" or so pilot, and er, smaller rear.  Front bars I prefer drops (actually I most prefer randonneurs), and the Profile Stokers suit my, er, stokers.

700c by preference.

Why?  You got something we might want to consider? ;)
Getting there...

Re: Dilemma
« Reply #13 on: 25 September, 2009, 11:30:46 am »
Why?  You got something we might want to consider? ;)

Mebee!

It's a Burley Bossa Nova in white.  I bought it to rob the HS66s from it and it is currently stripped down being refurbed as it was in a poor state.  It will come with HS22s on straights and a drag brake.  It's a bit too big for me and I ride a 20" so may suit you.  7sp rear wheel only though.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Dilemma
« Reply #14 on: 25 September, 2009, 11:41:58 am »
7spd doesn't bother me.  That's what we have atm.  I can't find a pic of a Bossa Nova onthe web, but it sounds like a good machine.

It's another option.

Of course, we have another tandem.  It's a hybrid-style thing, but I think there might be a way to put drops on it - I've seen it done.  It's a lot more sluggish, but it's a tandem, and we have cycle camped on it... :-\
Getting there...

Re: Dilemma
« Reply #15 on: 25 September, 2009, 11:55:55 am »
Nope, I cannot find anything either.  It is a 93/94 bike top of the range then $2300 when new.

http://www.bikepedia.com/QuickBike/BikeSpecs.aspx?Year=1993&Brand=Burley&Model=Bossa+Nova&Type=bike

based on the link I'm guessing it's a 22/20.

If you might be interested I'll get some more details and pix.  The original ebay picture is very poor so not worth posting.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Dilemma
« Reply #16 on: 25 September, 2009, 12:15:41 pm »
Where can I get a 48h 700c rim?  SJS only seem to do built wheels (which are too narrow for our purpose) :-\

Edit: OK, I've seen an Alex DH19 for £35 at JD
Getting there...

rdaviesb

Re: Dilemma
« Reply #17 on: 25 September, 2009, 05:40:47 pm »
A bit late to this thread, but we had a similar dilemma last year. We had a tandem that was just about OK, and to be honest I'd probably spent too much money on upgrading bits of it that year as well. In the end we had to bite the bullet, and raid the piggy bank to buy a new one which meets our needs (and for the time being desires). The alternative, I think, would have been that we would have drifted away from the tandem altogether, and I am so glad that we spent the money. Whilst this might not help with the refurb / buy 2nd hand / go hell for leather and get a new one argument, the lesson for us was that we had to invest in the machinery we were going to be comfortable with for at least the medium term. There was no point in just dealing with the short term. Do you know much more about the JD proposition? (and if in doubt there's no harm in a spot of "negotiation")

Re: Dilemma
« Reply #18 on: 25 September, 2009, 06:13:51 pm »
Where can I get a 48h 700c rim?  SJS only seem to do built wheels (which are too narrow for our purpose) :-\

Edit: OK, I've seen an Alex DH19 for £35 at JD

Velocity Dyad might be another option.  I just can't remember which UK dealer we got ours from.

Re: Dilemma
« Reply #19 on: 25 September, 2009, 07:14:09 pm »
Velocity Dyad might be another option.  I just can't remember which UK dealer we got ours from.

53-12 sells Velocity stuff.

thing1

  • aka Joth
    • TandemThings
Re: Dilemma
« Reply #20 on: 02 November, 2009, 02:32:24 pm »
Cor blimey here's another option:
Spa are selling off Super Galaxy tandems for £1030.  (S & L only)
Compared to £250 for a single wheel, you get 2 wheels, a frame, full tandem chainset controls and everything for this price!

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Dilemma
« Reply #21 on: 02 November, 2009, 03:12:53 pm »
*whimper* :-\
Getting there...

Re: Dilemma
« Reply #22 on: 16 November, 2009, 09:48:58 pm »
Cor blimey here's another option:
Spa are selling off Super Galaxy tandems for £1030.  (S & L only)
Compared to £250 for a single wheel, you get 2 wheels, a frame, full tandem chainset controls and everything for this price!


Thanks for the tip.  I've just bought one.  I was surprised to see next day courier offered for £25.  That was too good to be true.

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Dilemma
« Reply #23 on: 16 November, 2009, 10:27:07 pm »
Clarion, how much have you tried getting your tandem on a train?

Depending where we go, we have had very few problems with ours. Admittedly, the peace of mind of knowing that we can uncouple it if necessary is great, but in practice there have been few train companies with whom we have ever had a problem.

SW trains is one (and of course that could well be your area) because their bike racks would mean that a full length tandem would block the door.

Arriva Trains Wales (the "158") because it has that dreadful cubby hole for bikes.

However, apart from the tiny two-coachers on Nat. Express E. Anglia, all the other Nat. Express trains have no problem accepting a tandem. C2C (Fenchurch Street) is easy.

From memory, I think the Inter Cities from Paddington are fine.

The trans-pennine route from Lpool to Newcastle are fine.

If you can get it past the prats who run Virgin at Euston, I think you can get it in Supervoyagers (also possibly Pendolinos).

You wouldn't get it into the Scotrail service from Thurso to Inverness, nor probably from Inverness to the Kyle of Lochalsh.

Basically, I'd be inclined to give it a try from different stations out of London and see how you get on, without too much of an outlay on tickets. I think you might be pleasantly surprised.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

Re: Dilemma
« Reply #24 on: 17 November, 2009, 01:19:36 pm »
When we have taken it, we've had few problems BUT we have mostly been travelling on Sundays and we haven't had to catch a certain train except Grand Central ones that actively accept tandems. We have taken the car when we might otherwise have gone by train because we couldn't risk being stuck in Norwich or Oxfordshire with a loaded tandem on a Sunday. If we get rid of the car, we need a tandem that we can reliably take on a train. The problem is the lack of flexibility in cheap train tickets. If you have to be on a certain train, you don't have much leeway to deal with stroppy guards.
Quote from: Kim
^ This woman knows what she's talking about.