Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => Topic started by: LittleWheelsandBig on 20 September, 2017, 01:47:57 am
-
National organisations and individual organisers can surprise an unsuspecting foreign rider with additional requirements beyond the usual 'follow the route' and BRM regulations. Some of these additional requirements relate to the rider's equipment carried/ used during the ride.
I got caught out a few years ago because the UAF mandated helmets for all their brevets but didn't specifically advise so in the literature for each event (they do now). I ended up buying a helmet ten minutes before starting a 400 brevet celebrating Raymond Poulidor's birthday. Luckily for me, there was a bike shop at the start line and it was open.
Audax Oz requires riders to show the organiser two sets of front and rear lights and a reflective vest before starting any brevet where the maximum duration might extend into the hours of darkness. Cycle helmets are a legal requirement throughout Oz.
Randonneurs USA requires riders to wear reflective anklets at night, along with a reflective vest. "When riding all riders must wear an approved helmet."
I nearly wasn't able to do an Audax India Randonneurs brevet this year because "It is compulsory for the rider to display their rider number prominently on the front and rear of their bicycle, for the entire duration of the brevet. Riders not complying with this stipulation will not be permitted to start." The rider number is their AIR membership number. Scribbling on the back of a spare entry form, tearing it in half and using some zipties solved that problem. http://www.audaxindia.org/rules-and-regulations.php Helmets are mandatory and tribars are banned.
BC Randonneurs require that a rider complete shorter brevets before attempting longer ones e.g. must have done a 200 sometime before attempting a 300. Cycle helmets are the law in parts of Canada; for all ages in British Columbia, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia and for under-18s in Alberta and Ontario but helmets are mandatory for Alberta Randonneurs, BC Randonneurs, Manitoba Randonneurs, Prairie Randonneurs, Randonneurs Nova Scotia and Randonneurs Ontario brevets. I expect that Club Velo Randonneurs de Montreal also requires helmets.
Helmets are the law in Israel (except in urban areas) but there are no penalties for not wearing a helmet. I've ridden Israeli brevets both with and without helmets.
There are other rules that I've not yet fallen foul of. Randonneurs Hong Kong mandates separate front and rear lights on the rider's helmet, in addition to front and rear lights on their bike. https://sites.google.com/site/randonneurshk/mandatoryequipment
Are there other gotchas that might DQ a rider or prevent them from starting an overseas brevet?
-
You do wonder who these rules are meant to protect, the riders or the organisers?
-
Probably requirements pushed down from the insurers.
And it'll be down to the organisers on how hard they want to fight to push back on things that aren't legally mandatory.
-
I think Audax India also requires some sort of reflective vest at night.
-
When Sheila and I rode the Dolomite Marathon - over 20 years ago now - that was the first event we'd encountered that required helmets (the Marmotte, ridden the year before, didn't require them). It was a bit inconvenient throughout the rest of our 2-week Dolomite tour (Bike Bus to Venice, those were the days), having these bulky things strapped to our seatpacks.
Anyhoo, like many of the other participants, during the climbs I hung the helmet from my handlebars, and only popped it on for the descents. 7 Dolomite passes in total. The final descent to the finish was a relatively short one, so I didn't bother - and at the finish promptly got disqualified. :facepalm:
-
You do wonder who these rules are meant to protect, the riders or the organisers?
Organisers. A while back someone died on a UAF Audax organized by a friend, and the first thing the police said to him was "So you're the one that organizes events that kill people". It wasn't jocular, either. They, or anyone else wanting a scapegoat, will jump on any weakness they can find and try to portray what you consider to be reasonable caution as negligence.
-
Probably requirements pushed down from the insurers.
Other than compulsory helmets, oftentimes additional equipment requirements are bright ideas by the organiser/ somebody in the national body who wants greater rider safety by mandating extra equipment that is not legally required. Small organisations are particularly susceptible to these 'good ideas'.
The qualifying rides thing is usually an attempt to properly prepare newbies for the demands of riding long brevets. I'm not convinced it makes a significant difference, given that in recent times multi-PBPers have been more likely to DNF subsequent PBPs than newbies riding their first PBP.
-
I think Audax India also requires some sort of reflective vest at night.
It is easiest to assume that pretty much every national organisation outside the UK does. Requiring helmets is commonplace. Banning aerobars is less common.
-
The Danes like you to wear a lid, but they think it's charming if an Englishman turns up with a Barley and a hat.
-
The qualifying rides thing is usually an attempt to properly prepare newbies for the demands of riding long brevets. I'm not convinced it makes a significant difference, given that in recent times multi-PBPers have been more likely to DNF subsequent PBPs than newbies riding their first PBP.
That specific thing is probably more psychological than anything else. Correlation != causation.
My guess is that if you took away the qualification then the DNF rate for newbies would increase. The DNF rate for anciens may also increase slightly too as a few would maybe go into the ride less prepared than they should with the "well I've done it before so I should be able to do it again" mentality.
Even with pre-qualification I'd be more likely to DNF a subsequent PBP/LEL because I've already completed them once. I've come to recognise in my self that this is one of the minor reasons[1] that I've stopped riding so much; simply put I get more of a kick from doing something new and audacious (outside Audax and outside cycling) than I do from completing the same stuff over and over again. Others are wired differently.
Also, more experienced riders may have different goals, so if their attempted sub-75h ride starts to fall apart then they DNF rather than push on to finish in 81h or whatever. There's no requirement/desire to push on to complete the ride regardless because it's not their debut ride.
Anyway, this is a huge derail...
1. Having a small person being the main reason.
-
Continuing OT for a moment, traditionally recidivist PBPers had a noticeably higher finish rate than first-timers, supposedly because of experience being an advantage. That hasn't been the case for several editions. I can't imagine why the situation would have reversed, using your reasoning.
Some other 1200s require qualifying rides (like the recent Paris-Hamburg 1200) and others don't, with little aggregated difference in DNF rates. Quite a few DNFers and HDers at LEL17 had finished other 1200s with similar preparation. I suspect that completing qualifying rides is the least important indicator of whether somebody can finish a long brevet.
-
Flashing rear lights are expressly forbidden by Randonneurs Polska but they don't mention flashing front lights, oddly. Going off on a different tangent, they do say that "Any cheating whatsoever will lead to the rider being banned from organizations subordinate to ACP". So using a flashing rear light in Poland could in theory get you banned from AUK!
-
Oi! >:( AUK is not subordinate to ACP.
-
That doesn't mean subordinate as in inferior to or dependent on but as in organizing events recognized by ACP.
-
The relationship between AUK and ACP within LRM is very similar to the relationship between the UK and Germany within the EU - oh, hang on a bit ... :D
-
I was a bit surprised on the Portugal 1200 last week to be required (i) to wear a reflective vest at all times while riding - not just in darkness - and (ii) to carry a space blanket or bivvy bag.
I was worried about overheating with the vest on all day in 30 degrees, but unzipped it wasn't too bad.
To be fair these requirements were signaled well in advance, so no "gotcha".
-
I was a bit surprised on the Portugal 1200 last week to be required (i) to wear a reflective vest at all times while riding - not just in darkness - and (ii) to carry a space blanket or bivvy bag.
I was worried about overheating with the vest on all day in 30 degrees, but unzipped it wasn't too bad.
For me this was a no-go for participating. I would have no chance of completing the ride with these requirements. I have dodgy shoulders which should be kept cool, even an unzipped vest overheats my shoulders. Plus like some other riders my body can't stand extreme heat, serious heat + a vest requirement = extreme heat.
Plus the safety risk of someone falling asleep because they're dressed too hot due to the reflective vest.
-
For Dutch brevets of Randonneurs NL helmets are a free choice. Reflective vests are only advisory.
Secret controls are a possibility but usually not at spots where it would be too easy to use a parallel route (which isn't a real short cut).
-
I recently heard that in Germany even battery lights, front & rear, have to be controlled from up front. Dunno if it's true, though - Auntie H?
Oh, and the law in France says that you may have flashing front & rear auxiliary lights, but the main ones must be steady. But don't try it in a UAF peloton.
-
In the first example I know of, Audax Oz has recently relaxed its lighting and reflective vest policy to merely requiring legal compliance, though they still strongly recommend additional lighting and reflective material. https://www.audax.org.au/public/admin/forms Usually these things are introduced and subsequently only strengthened, never reduced.
Helmets are a legal requirement throughout Oz, so you still need them even when riding to the shops.
-
I'd be happy to comply with most of these extra rules as long as they are publicised in advance. I wear a helmet all the time when riding, but bought a white one with more vents before I went to Italy for the Super Randonnee 600km in the Dolomites this summer to keep my head cooler than the dark grey one I already had. I wouldn't be very keen to have to put a couple of lights on my helmet though.
On the Grosse Bayern Rundfahrt 1200km a few years ago we had to carry spare brake blocks and show them to the organiser at the bike check before the ride. It was a lumpy ride, but the spare brake blocks weren't required!
-
Continuing OT for a moment, traditionally recidivist PBPers had a noticeably higher finish rate than first-timers, supposedly because of experience being an advantage. That hasn't been the case for several editions. I can't imagine why the situation would have reversed, using your reasoning.
Perhaps the anciennes are getting older on average.
-
In Japan you need a helmet, a bell, a reflective vest that is worn all the time and lights that are mounted all the time. A mirror is recommended but not required.
-
In the first example I know of, Audax Oz has recently relaxed its lighting and reflective vest policy to merely requiring legal compliance, though they still strongly recommend additional lighting and reflective material. https://www.audax.org.au/public/admin/forms Usually these things are introduced and subsequently only strengthened, never reduced.
Helmets are a legal requirement throughout Oz, so you still need them even when riding to the shops.
Good for Audax Oz :thumbsup:
(they seem to be getting on well without you LWAB ;) )
-
Let's just say there may have been some encouragement. The heavy lifting was done by several persistent locals.
-
Continuing OT for a moment, traditionally recidivist PBPers had a noticeably higher finish rate than first-timers, supposedly because of experience being an advantage. That hasn't been the case for several editions. I can't imagine why the situation would have reversed, using your reasoning.
Perhaps the anciennes are getting older on average.
Than when they were newbies? At least four years older, I'd guess.
The average age of PBPers has been almost static over the past couple of decades, a little under 50 and creeping up perhaps 6 months each edition. I'm not sure whether it was much younger before then.
It wouldn't surprise me if the average age dropped at the next edition. Asian randonneurs tend to be younger than the typical Aussie, Brit and Yank.
-
I think the vast resource of the internet has steadily reduced the value of experience (not to zero, I feel I must emphasise despite its obviousness). Perhaps newbies to PBP are better informed and better prepared than they’ve ever been, having had the luxury of reading ten thousand forum posts from those who went before them and having spent three grand on every conceivable utensil, garment, and unction that might get them around?
Has the overall finish rate trended upward? It might not have even if the above is true, since people of every age may feel more emboldened to try things beyond certainty of success than was the case decades ago; but if the finish rate is improving overall, it would tend to support my theory.
-
The PBP DNF rate is trending slightly worse over time. I suspect that result is inevitable, given that mostly true hardrider types tend to tackle these sorts of things initially, when there is little information/ history available. Other folk get drawn into riding tough events by the seeming 'normality/ ease/ mythology' of doing them once enough folk have ridden and publicised the events.
A bit off-topic again though.
-
I find that on the Normandie Audaxes I've done, it's not unusual for some controls to have no food or refreshment options; so it's best to feed when you spot a nice cafe/ supermarche and bounce the official con trol.
-
Is it normal to be asked for a medical certificate to sign up for a French 300?
-
Is it normal to be asked for a medical certificate to sign up for a French 300?
I never had to show one.
-
Is it normal to be asked for a medical certificate to sign up for a French 300?
I never had to show one.
We've never needed medical certificates for French brevets, other than historical PBPs.
-
Speaking of medical certificats etc., if the Brexshit hasn't hit the fan by brevet time you might still be eligible for a European Health Insurance Card, which conveys to medical authorities in whatever country you've crashed in that you are covered. It's got a wee ring of stars on it though, which might mean that it goes out with the rest of the bathwater.
-
Speaking of medical certificats etc., if the Brexshit hasn't hit the fan by brevet time you might still be eligible for a European Health Insurance Card, which conveys to medical authorities in whatever country you've crashed in that you are covered. It's got a wee ring of stars on it though, which might mean that it goes out with the rest of the bathwater.
The wee stars are also the emblem of the Council of Europe, and your UK EHIC covers more than the EEA.
The wider world
While there are exceptions to the rule, though, there is also good news as a number of other EHIC countries outside the European Economic Area do, in fact, have reciprocal health agreements with the UK. In these instances, presenting your EHIC card can help you access the treatment. It isn’t essential in many instances, but simply proving your entitlement to healthcare in the UK can save valuable time and help you skirt a large amount of red tape.
The following nations have a reciprocal agreement with the UK: Australia, Anguilla, Barbados, Bosnia & Herzegovina, British Virgin Islands, Falkland Islands, Gibraltar, Jersey, Macedonia, Montenegro, Montserrat, New Zealand, St Helena, Serbia, Turks and Caicos Islands.
Save time and money
In all these nations, a European health insurance card technically won’t count for much, but it will assuage the hospital’s fears and ensure that you get seen to quickly. It will also mean that you don’t get presented with a large bill to pay before the hospital agrees to treat you. This has happened before, so make sure you have your card to hand as it will help your cause should the worst happen.
-
Glad of that.
-
I'm sure the Govt has sorted out all these minor details. They've had 2 years, and seem a pretty competent bunch.
#maycontainsatire
-
I've posted a Australia/helmet question in Lift the Lid
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=110865.0 (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=110865.0)
would appreciate any knowledgeable advice from those who may not venture in there normally
Thanks
-
Randonneurs USA requires riders to wear reflective anklets at night, along with a reflective vest. "When riding all riders must wear an approved helmet."
Yeah, just signed up for a Seattle ride and caught that. For a 300 that starts at 6am. Wonder if my reflective socks will be OK.
Nearly got caught out on Saturdays 200. I just got a receipt as proof of passage at a commercial control but then got told by the guys I was riding with I had to get someone to sign my brevet card instead. Queried it at the end and yeah, brevet cards must be signed at the control...
-
The PBP DNF rate is trending slightly worse over time. I suspect that result is inevitable, given that mostly true hardrider types tend to tackle these sorts of things initially, when there is little information/ history available. Other folk get drawn into riding tough events by the seeming 'normality/ ease/ mythology' of doing them once enough folk have ridden and publicised the events.
A bit off-topic again though.
I'd suggest another factor is the increased use of indoor trainers. A greater proportion of riders I've met have made reference to training indoors when the weather's bad. IN 2007, as far as I recall, the UK had a wet spring, so most AUK PBP entrants would have been rained upon and blown apart. When it came to PBP (which was wet and windy) we had the best completion rate of any nation with a significant number of entries, because we'd had the mental training of suffering in the cold and wet.
It's difficult to make comparisons but (again based on anecdotal comments as I was ensconced in StIves cooking) a lower experience of adverse conditions made it harder for some to battle the horrible headwinds on the return leg of LEL in 2017. This is a judgemental observation totally unbacked by any statistical analysis, but I throw it up there for consideration.
Back to the topic, I think weather can be a gotcha - if you are unprepared. I think I was lucky with the 2010 edition of Mille Miglia, in that it was a particularly hot June and July in the UK and so I got experience of riding up hills in 30C heat which in a more ordinary summer (if such things still exist) I might not have got and I might have suffered more when the thermometer regularly rose into the 30s in Tuscany.
-
Yeah, just signed up for a Seattle ride and caught that. For a 300 that starts at 6am. Wonder if my reflective socks will be OK.
Nearly got caught out on Saturdays 200. I just got a receipt as proof of passage at a commercial control but then got told by the guys I was riding with I had to get someone to sign my brevet card instead. Queried it at the end and yeah, brevet cards must be signed at the control...
Does that mean an ATM doesn't work as PoP in .US?
Who is acceptable for signing?
J
-
Thailand (Trang): I wasn't asked to wear a helmet and there was food at most controls. The whole thing was easy, friendly and absent of gotchas. The ride was run (along with a while series of events) by Titisak at Happy Wheels (https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g1052312-d8517660-Reviews-Happy_Wheels_Cafe-Trang_Trang_Province.html), who speaks some English.
-
Does that mean an ATM doesn't work as PoP in .US?
Who is acceptable for signing?
J
No idea, this was in Canada. And no idea if it's a club thing or a country thing. Seems odd either way.
One of the guys I was riding with apparently An employee of the establishment we stopped at.
-
Randonneurs USA requires riders to wear reflective anklets at night, along with a reflective vest. "When riding all riders must wear an approved helmet."
Yeah, just signed up for a Seattle ride and caught that. For a 300 that starts at 6am. Wonder if my reflective socks will be OK.
It'd be better to ask the organiser or a local rider beforehand but I would expect separate reflective anklets. RUSA tends towards the fundamentalist approach to randonneuring.
-
The PBP DNF rate is trending slightly worse over time. I suspect that result is inevitable, given that mostly true hardrider types tend to tackle these sorts of things initially, when there is little information/ history available. Other folk get drawn into riding tough events by the seeming 'normality/ ease/ mythology' of doing them once enough folk have ridden and publicised the events.
A bit off-topic again though.
It's difficult to make comparisons but (again based on anecdotal comments as I was ensconced in StIves cooking) a lower experience of adverse conditions made it harder for some to battle the horrible headwinds on the return leg of LEL in 2017. This is a judgemental observation totally unbacked by any statistical analysis, but I throw it up there for consideration.
My experience is more that riders were not used to change planning + calculations based on the wind predictions. So a lot of riders stayed put in the first night because they were already 'ahead of schedule'. This resulted in an overcrowded control and the few riders continueing through the night lacking any groups to ride with (and gain more time).
Same for PBP 2007. A lot of riders decided to wait for the end of the rain/daylight at Mortagne. This meant that in the 2nd half of the night there was hardly anyone riding from Mortagne to Villaines. Those riders still on the road had to battle the elements alone, resulting in not only the group waiting at Mortagne being out of time but those riders continuing also being very close to the timelimit.
Group behaviour does have influence on your times, even if you don't follow it.
-
I didn't have an issue with receipts on the RUSA ride I did a few years ago. They actually had a nice rule (not sure if it's been proposed here) that you only need one receipt per group if you've designated this with the organiser - I rode part of the way with a father and daughter pair that didn't have to do the slightly ridiculous two receipt thing. For tandems this must be a no-brainer.