"You look like you should ride with the Slow Group."

[mattc]

I'm curious to see how people feel about the "shame" of being put in a "Slow" / "Less Fast" whatever group on social/club rides.

As I see it the main pros and cons are:
- it's perhaps insulting to be put in a "slow" group,
- if you're put in a mixed ability group, it can be demoralising to be always at the back on climbs etc (i.e. the narrower the ability range, the less far off the back you will be!)

I dont expect to reach any grand conclusions, or prove anything - it's just a bit of random popular opinion surveying. A toe in the water.

_{(Disclosure: I have been in both situations, and have also been the fastest, bestest, top dog alpha male in a group   )}

Thanks!

[yoav]

Probably best to leave the ego at home! I would ask people to self select into whatever group they want to be in but tell them it's ok to change to a faster/slower group at the coffee/lunch stops.

I also feel if you're a group leader then it's up to you to keep the pace manageable for all the group.

But I am from the old school.

[Dibdib]

Wot yoav said, with the additional comment that if you're going to advertise a ride at a given speed, the ride should be at that speed.

More than once I've ridden with a club who have advertised at, say, 15mph and then the ride back from the cafe has been pushing 18 into a headwind - leaving a novice rider fighting unsuccessfully to cling onto the back, and then getting dropped in some village with only half an idea of how to get home.

[mattc]

Much appreciate the responses chaps 

But can anyone comment from the actual viewpoint in question?  (I'm reluctant to keep discussing what  is "best" for people in a "Does he take sugar?" kind of way! )

[Dibdib]

Oh, I'm definitely one of the slow ones - and would much rather ride in a slower group and enjoy it than have a sufferfest chasing faster riders unnecessarily. Even if that means getting to the cake shop ten minutes later. No shame for me, and I wouldn't be insulted. In a new group I'd always err on the side of caution anyway, unless I knew I could keep up with the fast group.

[LEE]

It's fairly normal for groups to advertise their average ride speed, and to keep to it.

If you're dropping off the back then you have a couple of choices:

1) Join the slower group
2) Ride on your own

Our group is too small to split so we have a "nobody gets left behind" policy and it's a very social pace.
It can get a bit strung out sometimes but we regroup at junctions/hills.

I know the Pompey Wednesday Night ride has a fast group and a slower group.

There's a case for several mixed ability groups if numbers grow too large of course.  I'm a car driver as well as a cyclist and it can be painful when trying to pass a big Club ride.

I don't see any "Shame". I had to drop out of the local "Wheelers" Chain-gang rides as I just couldn't hang on to the back.  Some people are faster than me and I don't want to hold them up if they have a speed to stick to.

[mattc]

Oh, I'm definitely one of the slow ones - and would much rather ride in a slower group and enjoy it than have a sufferfest chasing faster riders unnecessarily. Even if that means getting to the cake shop ten minutes later.

Ah right. Thanks 

[Kim]

Splitting on speed suits me fine.  I may be in either half, depending on who the others are, what I'm riding and what the conditions are like.  I wouldn't claim to be a fast cyclist by YACF standards, but I have more hill climbing stamina / ability to pace myself on climbs than the average Londoner, and don't generally need a rest when I get to the top of hills (but if I am the slowest rider, I would like the group to allow me a fair amount of faffing time to add/remove clothing or whatever when needed).

Splitting by, for example, choice of route, COR NSTN-rating or destination is also fine and often more meaningful for social rides.

Anything but alphabetical by surname.  I got enough of that rubbish in PE lessons and the university print queue.

Mixed ability groups who can't ride at the pace of the slowest rider either need more practice / attitude adjustment, or a clearer explanation of the expected pace.

[Hot Flatus]

The slow group is the biggest group in my club. In fact there are 4 speed groups and by and large the faster you go the smaller the group.

I quite like groups with sudden changes of pace, rather than a constant but mediocre pace. Obviously, if you do that you have to stop and wait at some point. In the groups I ride with most love the challenge (me included) but some get really stressy about it.

To answer the op, I dont give a shit what group Im in as long as it is the right paced group for me. The right paced group is the one that pushes me just outside of my comfort zone. Some people dont want that though. As ever there is a compromise to be made and people have to be clear about what they want.

[hellymedic]

Having almost always been one of the slowest, I can attest to how demoralising it can be to ride with those who are too fast.
Never quite recovering from a hard climb before setting off again, never getting enough time to eat, getting bonked out because I was outpaced, etc.

I did Audaxes just because I could go at my own pace. And got much faster as a result!

But I was still slow and useless on hills.

[Basil]

The right paced group is the one that pushes me just outside of my comfort zone.

So you see, we're all different.   No two cyclists are the same.  Some enjoy challenge some don't.   There are both fast and slow cyclists  who want to push themsthemselves.  There are others that don't..
I'm slow and would want to ride in the slow group.   I get no enjoyment from keeping up.

[Kim]

Indeed.  Pushing myself is something I prefer to do on my own.  Or at least in the company of cyclists who won't leave me for dust when I inevitably have to slow down as a result.  I don't mind attacking a hill or trying to beat a PB on a Strava segment or going all-out on the final dash to the pub or whatever from time to time, but struggling to keep up with a group is miserable.

[T42]

I have led fast groups and slow groups but never been assigned as follower in either. I'd definitely be in the slower group now, and probably have trouble keeping up, but I'd take it very ill if someone came out and said to me "John, you're slower than us, go in the other group".  I don't think anyone would be so ill-mannered, either.

Riding with faster chums who charitably wait for you at the top of every climb then belt on before you've got your breath back is hell.

[Kim]

Riding with faster chums who charitably wait for you at the top of every climb then belt on before you've got your breath back is hell.

The trick there is to slow down.

[T42]

Back when I was on beta-blockers showing down would have meant falling off.  That was the period when a butterfly went through my front wheel without getting hurt.

[arabella]

Split on speed/fitness.
Furthermore, send the whippets the long way around so the slow pokes get to the feed stop before them and get 1st dibs for a change.

[hellymedic]

...but struggling to keep up with a group is miserable.

Too true!

I was not slow because I did not try.
I was not slow because I was not 'fit'.
I just was not strong or fast. I was cycling more often than many and was never very heavy.
I just could not go any faster.

[hellymedic]

Riding with faster chums who charitably wait for you at the top of every climb then belt on before you've got your breath back is hell.

Boy, don't I know this!

[TheLurker]

On the lunchtime socials I used to organise we rode within the limits of the slowest rider regardless of the group size and ability mix cos it's bloody miserable to be dropped off the back and the rides were social rather than training rides.  For social rides suffering of any form isn't part of the deal. 

For training rides I'd expect a split on ability and for riders to know roughly what they are capable of, to expect to have to work hard and to accept the risk of getting dropped.  You won't be surprised to learn I don't do training rides.

[ElyDave]

At Ely club, Saturday rides are social, but still split into groups, but pace is held and strugglers not left. Sunday's tend to be even paced to the cafe and then the faster rides can go off the front on the way home.

Either way any group I'm in needs to be happy to stop for 2-3 mins every hour for me to do a blood test.

[Redlight]

I've not done a lot of group riding but when I have, my approach has always been to opt for the slower group to start but, if I'm feeling stronger after several miles, tell the ride leader and ride ahead by myself to catch the faster group.  That feels, to me, more positive than joining the faster group and having to stop and wait for the slower group to come along because I can't maintain the pace.

As it happens, I'm contemplating joining a regular Saturday morning run, organised by a local bike shop, as part of my prep for LEL.  If I do, it will be interesting to see how they react to me turning up bare-headed on with my steel frame, mudguards, hub dynamo.....  Somehow, I don't think they will allocate me to the fast group.

[Wycombewheeler]

at our club the rides are split by speed groups. all groups ride for the same time to the coffee stop so faster groups ride further on different routes. seems better than slower groups following the same route but taking lonher.

seems the best way to me, even on a social ride I like a decent pace.

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

I'm not really a group rider but notlong ago I went on a ride over the N. York Moors where all others were on carbon fibre TdF lookalikes.  My ancient, 2 chain ring mudguarded steelie with a saddle bag was looked at askance but they let me play anyway.  I kept up very comfortably and when we reached the half-way cafe near Helmsley I noticed one or two of my comrades surreptitiously lifting my bike by the saddle, putting it down again and scratching their heads in a puzzled way.  

[giropaul]

Back when I started club riding there was one " club run" , and it was social and no- drop. This meant that I, as a 14/15 year old, was riding with 1st cats and a range of other riders. I gained a lot of advice, grew up a fair bit, and developed a life-long love of the sport.
What I observe is that clubs often have " ability" groups. I observe that these effectively split a club into factions, and can lead to some riders becoming elitist. The experience of older, but often very experienced, riders does not get passed on. The " faster" rides become races, and are often the only riding some riders do. I know- I hear riders defining their riding objectives as " being at the front of the Saturday ride"
Of course, the exponential growth of interest in cycling has been a factor, and sensible group sizes are important, but we are in danger of making clubs merely a means of supplying competitive rides for people, and the " softer" benefits of long- term immersion in a "club culture", of giving to the sport as well as taking.
Training rides are important of course, but it is still possible to try to meet up as a club, and to do some social riding without the need to continually focus on the garmin.

[Hot Flatus]

To be honest Paul the type of ride you describe is exactly what I want, and 'club culture' is exactly what I dont want.  Ive avoided clubs for years because of this, and Ive finally found a new club locally that isnt riven with the pecking orders, unspoken rules etc that you find in 'old school' clubs.