Author Topic: New Google My Maps and DIY by GPS  (Read 4194 times)

New Google My Maps and DIY by GPS
« on: 06 October, 2014, 10:34:09 pm »
I'm being lazy and hoping someone has done the research on this ............
 
Until now my work flow when creating a DIY route was to draft it in the old 'Classic' GMaps and whilst still in the 'Walking Directions' view, extract the short URL which could be fired off to my regional DIY organiser/validator for pre-approval as up to distance. This is unchanged.
 
But formerly I could then then save it to 'My Places' using the 'Create a new map' option. This would give access to the .kml download option from which I could convert the file into .gpx format and get it into Memory Map, Basecamp, etc.
 
Since the recent introduction of the 'New My Maps' facility, there seems no longer to be the option in the old Classic GMaps of saving the composition and in the short time I have had to play around with it, I can’t see a way of getting a .kml file containing all the ‘Destinations’ and forming the route.
 
 
Can anyone point me in the right direction?

frankly frankie

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Re: New Google My Maps and DIY by GPS
« Reply #1 on: 07 October, 2014, 09:39:45 am »
I strongly recommend Cuesheets.

And Paul's workflow primer to go with it -
http://events.paudax.com/content/planning-your-diy-perm-route-google-maps
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

JayP

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Re: New Google My Maps and DIY by GPS
« Reply #2 on: 07 October, 2014, 11:38:45 am »
Thank's for that Andy. Well if classic Google maps is going then we have to get to grips the new and that's that. The cuesheets tool doesn 't seem to be working anyway. I just tried two of the 'example' links, one opened in classic google the other in new but both returned this from cuesheets.

'Unable to parse Google Maps Driving Directions page. This tool requires a Google Maps Driving Directions page to operate on. Make sure your page is http://maps.google.* and you have a route between two points. If you believe you have a valid route and still see this error, it is possible Google has altered their page definition, so please contact the author.'

For Audax route planning Google is not the best base mapping to use IMO. I've used it as described by Pedro just as a way to choose controls which meet the Google walking distance requirement and communicate my choice to a DIY org or Events team delegate. For the actual route-to-be-ridden I'd make my choice using  BenT's EXCELLENT Gpx Editor. It gives you full screen wall to wall lovely 1:50,000 OS which you can route onto directly using Google's routing options or one of Ben's specially for AUKs. You can call up Google Earth photo's directly from the OS map and Satellite view is only a click away as is OSM. Where else would you go?

Re: New Google My Maps and DIY by GPS
« Reply #3 on: 07 October, 2014, 12:20:28 pm »
OK, FF, thanks for that. I’m on another steep learning curve here. I hadn’t realised Paul had updated his guide. I’ve looked at both GMAP2GPX and Cuesheets.
 
GMAP2GPX - the link displays a website for ‘elsewhere.org’ which has a big ‘Download’ button which tricks you into downloading something called ‘FileOpenerSetUp.exe’ which I mistakenly thought was part of the application installation process. Only when I had narrowly avoided installing several junk apps, including some Norton crap did I realise I was being sucked in. Having to allow it through my AVG should have alerted me!
 
I click-and-dragged the ‘GMAP2GPX Bookmarklet’ to my Chrome Bookmark bar but this has absolutely no effect when in GMaps.
 
Drilling down on the ‘‘elsewhere.org’ website I find a list of educated sounding comments which indicate that this app is broken and has been for some time.
 
Having abandoned GMAP2GPX I turned to CueSheets. I dragged the bookmarklet onto the Bookmarks bar and this time, when in GMaps, a result was displayed. It’s pretty geeky-looking (at least to me!) but there are options to generate ‘GPX Output’ and ‘Garmin Output’
 
I tried using the ‘Garmin Output’ but it insists on my having ‘Garmin Communicator Plug-In’ installed and won’t go any further, despite the fact that the relevant Garmin webpage insists I already had the most up-to-date version installed. So this route is blocked for me.
 
Using the ‘Generate Gpx Output’ option gives me a nice page of .gpx file text which then had to be converted into a .gpx file. Casting about t’web, I found ‘GPSVisualiser’ which I’d read about previously but hadn’t hitherto needed. This did indeed generate a downloadable .gpx file which displayed nicely in Memory Map as a plain Track, from where I could export it into Basecamp.
 
When it came to Basecamp however, the .gpx file from GPSVisualiser imported as a series of waymarks and not as a Route nor as a Track.
 
As more knowledgeable readers will discern I am still somewhat ‘digitally challenged’ when it comes to all this GPS stuff, despite having used one satisfactorily for a number of years. But for me, DIY by GPS route creation has just become a lot more of a faff unless further homework can improve my basic skills!
EDIT: posted the above before refreshing the thread, so will now go away and follow up AndyC's directions!


Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: New Google My Maps and DIY by GPS
« Reply #4 on: 07 October, 2014, 04:50:49 pm »
I strongly recommend Cuesheets.

And Paul's workflow primer to go with it -
http://events.paudax.com/content/planning-your-diy-perm-route-google-maps

Pedro is right in that GMAP2GPX no longer runs under Chrome current releases of Chrome. It has to be said the writing is on the wall for these apps and I will need to look again at my workflow.

Meanwhile though GMAP2GPX works fine with Firefox.

Ive updated my notes accordingly.

αdαmsκι

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Re: New Google My Maps and DIY by GPS
« Reply #5 on: 11 October, 2014, 02:28:49 pm »
GMAP2GPX works for me using Chrome (version 35.0.1916.153) and the classic google maps. However, I need to tell Chrome to load unsafe scripts. Workflow is:

  • Create route in the classic version of google maps
  • Grab the google map link to the route I have created
  • Select GMAP2GPX bookmark
  • Click the load unsafe scripts shield, which looks like this
  • When google map has reloaded (having now lost my carefully prepared route) paste in the link I've previous created in step 2
  • Select GMAP2GPX bookmark for a second time.
  • Hey presto, job done.
What on earth am I doing here on this beautiful day?! This is the only life I've got!!

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frankly frankie

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Re: New Google My Maps and DIY by GPS
« Reply #6 on: 12 October, 2014, 09:53:52 am »
Having used Gmap2GPX for many years (and written about it in Arrivee back in 2009), I now use Cuesheets and think it is significantly the better of the two tools, and especially for planning overseas Tracks which is what I do a lot.  The main reason I prefer it is because it outputs much cleaner GPX code, more likely to load in the software of your choice without any problems.

Using the ‘Generate Gpx Output’ option gives me a nice page of .gpx file text which then had to be converted into a .gpx file. Casting about t’web, I found ‘GPSVisualiser’

GPSVisualizer is indeed a useful site - but actually once you've copied the GPX text, all you need to do is paste it into Notepad or similar and save it as [filename].gpx its as simple as that.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: New Google My Maps and DIY by GPS
« Reply #7 on: 12 October, 2014, 10:23:50 am »
adamski and FF - thanks for the gen (and the spelling correction!)  :facepalm: 
 
I had indeed discovered the ‘Notepad’ route, after my earlier post, I think from Paul’s Guide and yes it is much easier. Now I’ve tried CueSheets and learnt how to do what I need with it, I’ll probably stick with that.
 
I still have a lot to learn regarding the Google stuff, not least being the differentiation between the New G Maps which appears with a white ‘SHARE’ button and the new ‘My Maps’ which displays a green ‘SHARE’ button. These two environments offer similar but not identical features and behave in different ways. You can get a short URL out of one and a .kml file out of t’other but I’ve given up trying to fathom much more.
 
While we still have the ‘Classic’ option and CueSheets to work with it, we can do what we need, in the ‘DIY by GPS’ sense, but I have no doubt that the ubermeisters at Google are working assiduously to force us to conform to their view of things and the Classic facility will steadily get screwed until it’s useless!
 
 
 

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: New Google My Maps and DIY by GPS
« Reply #8 on: 12 October, 2014, 11:20:58 am »
Those with long memories will remember what a dogs breakfast 'portal' solutions like Alta Vista, Yahoo and co developed into, and that 98% of the reason Google ran them out of town is that Google delivered what people wanted with an incredibly simple and ubquitous user interface.

Google has developed many fine things, including the further development of GMAPS, but Dicking Around (technical term) with stripped down functional services that people know and love is Peeing in the Soup (another technical term).

I really value the ease of use and stability of classic gmaps Switching between all the other mapping products, it feels like I have to relearn the app each time I log on as they keep changing, and as always, the more functionality they pile in, the more complicated the UI becomes.

Manotea is a Luddite? No... I'm all for Vorsprung Durch Technik but more than that I want things to ' Just Work'.

frankly frankie

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Re: New Google My Maps and DIY by GPS
« Reply #9 on: 12 October, 2014, 11:52:09 am »
Many of the recent changes on other planning sites seem to have occurred because they were written using Gmaps' v2 code (which was superseded by v3 in 2009) which was finally withdrawn from support last year, leaving the planning sites floundering for a while.  So indirectly that was Gmaps peeing in their soup.  Well they can't say they weren't warned!  ::-)

When it came to Basecamp however, the .gpx file from GPSVisualiser imported as a series of waymarks and not as a Route nor as a Track.

That may have been an unwanted conversion in GPSVis (there are lots of 'more options' hidden until you drop them down, in those conversion pages) but the trick in Cuesheets, as I expect you know now, is to UNcheck the box marked 'include checked waypoints' before selecting the option 'Generate GPX output' - what you then get, if you save it straight out in a text editor, is pure unadulterated Track.
A tricksier thing to do is to leave that box checked, and instead tick the unchecked box at the top left corner of the actual cuesheet section.  That will have the effect of turning all the Waypoints off except the 1st and last (and any intermediate Destinations if you had set them in Gmaps).  This would give Track-plus-Waypoints at Controls, which is pretty ideal for many people.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: New Google My Maps and DIY by GPS
« Reply #10 on: 13 October, 2014, 10:18:59 am »
......A tricksier thing to do is to leave that box checked, and instead tick the unchecked box at the top left corner of the actual cuesheet section.  That will have the effect of turning all the Waypoints off except the 1st and last (and any intermediate Destinations if you had set them in Gmaps).  This would give Track-plus-Waypoints at Controls, which is pretty ideal for many people.
Yup, you're right (as ever!) and that's what Paul's guide suggests. If as I do, one uses just a Track, without any routing, plus waypoints just for Controls, this is ideal.

Re: New Google My Maps and DIY by GPS
« Reply #11 on: 22 October, 2014, 02:59:02 pm »
Andy - I sympathise - the New Gmaps and new My Maps appear to be separate tools neither of which does everything we need. The new GMaps allows the creation of a route between Destinations, as previously, but the SHARE button is white and doesn’t generate a URL. However, if you hit the cog icon (bottom right) then ‘Share and embed’ you will get the full URL AND a short URL option, again as before. What you don’t get is the grey folder, top left, which leads to a .kml export option. It seems you get the ‘Export as .kml’ function only in the ‘Create a new map’ option via the google.com/maps URL. This screen has the SHARE button in GREEN  For the time being, it seems best to follow Paul Stewart’s guide and revert to the ‘Classic’  mode and ensure you draft your journey in that mode.


HOWEVER - I seem to run into another hurdle now, insofar as despite definitely composing a new DIY control list in Classic and sending the short URL to Paul as before, it appears that when he opens it at his end it has the characteristics of having been composed in New GMaps and won’t work with the other software he uses as part of the route validation process. This means he has to manually input the controls into his software and of course this is much more labour intensive, especially if the rider has done what I did and placed a control at a place in GMaps which has no identifier (e.g. an ‘unknown road’ in the middle of the Cambridgeshire Fens.) I don’t know whether my problem is due to something I’ve done or if it’s endemic with the latest GMaps. Has anyone else devised and submitted a DIY route to Paul after having gone into New GMaps and then reverted to the Classic mode?

Re: New Google My Maps and DIY by GPS
« Reply #12 on: 22 October, 2014, 04:21:55 pm »
So far, the "classic" Gmaps version is still working ok for me, and for incoming DIY entries.

Re: New Google My Maps and DIY by GPS
« Reply #13 on: 22 October, 2014, 04:55:04 pm »
HOWEVER - I seem to run into another hurdle now, insofar as despite definitely composing a new DIY control list in Classic and sending the short URL to Paul as before, it appears that when he opens it at his end it has the characteristics of having been composed in New GMaps and won’t work with the other software he uses as part of the route validation process. This means he has to manually input the controls into his software and of course this is much more labour intensive, especially if the rider has done what I did and placed a control at a place in GMaps which has no identifier (e.g. an ‘unknown road’ in the middle of the Cambridgeshire Fens.) I don’t know whether my problem is due to something I’ve done or if it’s endemic with the latest GMaps. Has anyone else devised and submitted a DIY route to Paul after having gone into New GMaps and then reverted to the Classic mode?

When I re-open one of my quicklinks (eg 11 control one submitted to Paul last week), I see a message flash up 'This feature is not supported in the New Google Maps, so we've temporarily switched you back to Classic Maps', and then displays fine. I have set my browser to always use Classic Maps, having reverted from the New one.
“That slope may look insignificant, but it's going to be my destiny" - Fitzcarraldo

Re: New Google My Maps and DIY by GPS
« Reply #14 on: 22 October, 2014, 05:27:09 pm »
When I re-open one of my quicklinks (eg 11 control one submitted to Paul last week), I see a message flash up 'This feature is not supported in the New Google Maps, so we've temporarily switched you back to Classic Maps', and then displays fine. I have set my browser to always use Classic Maps, having reverted from the New one.
That's exactly my experience and the GMaps address appears as: "https://maps.google.com/....." which according to Paul's Guide, confirms that I'm in 'Classic' mode. But at Paul's end, the same URL shows up as 'New GMaps'. That's why I was asking if anyone had actually gone through the whole process, not just creating a route but sending it in and having it accepted, AFTER first having gone into New GMaps and then reverted to 'Classic' mode.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: New Google My Maps and DIY by GPS
« Reply #15 on: 22 October, 2014, 06:36:33 pm »
There may be a couple, because Paul is a kindly soul who looks out for the young and innocent and helps them on their way, albeit not without delivering a clip round the ear and the admonishment 'not to do it again'. The problem is that if you revert to Google Maps Classic 'temporarily, whilst it might look like Google Maps Classic the route URL that is generated is a New Google Maps URL, or rather, or a bastardized (literally and figuratively) hybrid, which means that when you open it, if fires up NGM and utilities on which he currently relies will not work. So I'm told.

But I fear one one of the clippees may have had their revenge as paudax.com is temporaily incommoded. We can but pray that like McArthur, it shall return...

Re: New Google My Maps and DIY by GPS
« Reply #16 on: 22 October, 2014, 10:05:08 pm »
There may be a couple, because Paul is a kindly soul who looks out for the young and innocent and helps them on their way, albeit not without delivering a clip round the ear and the admonishment 'not to do it again'. The problem is that if you revert to Google Maps Classic 'temporarily, whilst it might look like Google Maps Classic the route URL that is generated is a New Google Maps URL, or rather, or a bastardized (literally and figuratively) hybrid, which means that when you open it, if fires up NGM and utilities on which he currently relies will not work. So I'm told.

But I fear one one of the clippees may have had their revenge as paudax.com is temporaily incommoded. We can but pray that like McArthur, it shall return...
Speaking as one of the ‘clipees’ (I suspect) the problem for me is that for the time being, the DIY-by-GPS is sort of broken. One of the big merits was the ability to place a Control out in the middle of nowhere using the GMaps URL to display it satisfactorily at the Organiser/validator end. Since there is no way yet apparent for me now to generate a Classic URL even after having switched my GMaps back to Classic mode as set out in your Guide I’m stymied. The only way I can get a fresh route affirmed is to cut the Control numbers right down and use just place names and throw myself on your mercy, since I know you’ll have to process the application manually. This will be a PITA for ‘full value riders’ like muggins who need to keep the minimum-between-Controls distance as close as possible to the distance of the rideable route. P.S. it ain’t me wot bruk yer machine guv! (I hope!)

Re: New Google My Maps and DIY by GPS
« Reply #17 on: 22 October, 2014, 10:10:35 pm »
As a workaround I've installed Firefox and set Classic Google Maps as my homepage. Then I managed to get Cuesheet as recommended by Francis to work and create a file suitable for a Garmin. You can then transfer the resulting output to a Garmin Device after first installing the Garmin Connect Plugin.

I've looked at the resulting route in Basecamp (which I only use to view things) and everything seems in order.

AC
Following Pauls' Guide, I've managed to make CueSheets work in Chrome but only to 'Generate a GPX', not to do the Garmin thing. That's not an issue for me because I want a plain .gpx Track to pull up in Memory Map for review purposes. I haven't yet loaded such a result into a Garmin and tried following it. If I were using Routes rather than Tracks, I'd be cautious about trusting it with any Big Ride until I'd tested it 'in the field' ;)

Re: New Google My Maps and DIY by GPS
« Reply #18 on: 23 October, 2014, 09:19:32 am »
GMaps links, and conversion to "Classic", are still working ok for me. I can handle Paul's entries on his behalf if necessary, for the moment, if it helps. If so, send me an entry form, don't worry about the ££, and get riding.

Tony Hull

Aunt Maud

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Re: New Google My Maps and DIY by GPS
« Reply #19 on: 26 October, 2014, 08:45:13 am »
Well thanks tonyh,

I got a terse paudax ear clipping yesterday for submitting a NGMap  link which I thought was CGMap and it still smarts. ::-) Kept me awake all night it did.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: New Google My Maps and DIY by GPS
« Reply #20 on: 26 October, 2014, 08:57:14 pm »
OK, after a little hiatus, paudax.com is back! I shall be having Stern Words with my webhost on Monday.... but in the meantime, in the light of recent comments I've updated the advice on the 'Planning your route using Google Maps' page. I quite like the heading 'New Google Maps - Just say No!'.

Re: New Google My Maps and DIY by GPS
« Reply #21 on: 27 October, 2014, 11:00:15 am »
 :)

JamesBradbury

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Re: New Google My Maps and DIY by GPS
« Reply #22 on: 27 October, 2014, 12:33:34 pm »
Quote
use just place names

I use this somewhat unofficial website to get grib references (100m green square). I also send the classic "short url" links. I've yet to receive an ear-clipping, but perhaps tonyh is too nice for that.  ;D

Maybe someone should create a mapping and grid-ref tool specifically for DIYs... there's a project for me if I get snowed-in with the in-laws this Christmas...   ::-)

frankly frankie

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Re: New Google My Maps and DIY by GPS
« Reply #23 on: 27 October, 2014, 02:03:31 pm »
It seems a bit unfortunate to me that some bright spark in the early days of DIYs wrote the documentation and sanctioned the use of Grid Refs, and no-one has seen fit to revisit the documents and say 'well actually, grid refs if you must but really because we now use Google Maps we'd prefer Lat/Longs'.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: New Google My Maps and DIY by GPS
« Reply #24 on: 27 October, 2014, 07:24:01 pm »
Has any DIY org ever actually used grid refs to validate a DIY perm I wonder?