Author Topic: Their own worst enemy ... (Read 3629 times)

David Martin · « **on:** 28 May, 2011, 09:21:34 pm »

Cycle racers that is.

Today we ran the first of two days for our stage race. Part one was the prologue. We are used to riders cutting the corners and nigh on getting head on crashes as they head up the Law (pace kellogs tour 1986 or thereabouts). Rather cold and windy - hanging on to my time keeping bits as the gusts of wind were blowing my laptop closed.

But then the afternoon turned into a farce. A ride out to the main circuit (which is quiet and relatively small roads. Before the race int he briefing the riders were explicitly told that crossing the white line on the main road out to the circuit would not be tolerated. A strong crosswind from the left. So what do the F*****^*^ stupid idiots do but attack on the right hand side of the road in the gutter so nobody can follow in shelter. This was less than three miles in before we stopped the bunch (having all bar three riders on the wrong side of the road is *not* acceptable when they are switching in and out of oncoming traffic n blind bends. - the race officials had never seen such dangerous riding.) So we stopped the race, warned the riders and they were warned by an undercover policeman who had been tailing the race on his motorbike (unknown to us). They were well behaved for another few miles but then played silly buggers again. When it is all on video and you attack onto the wrong side of the road you can't claim to have been 'grazing the white line when the bunch pushed you over it' - If some of those guys gained a brain cell it would die of loneliness.

So stage abandoned 8 miles into a 52 mile race. Much bad feeling and the organiser having to spend a couple of hours discussing with Tayside police befoer we can get the go-ahead for tomorrow. The fact that we stopped the bunch to call them to rights was in our favour. But a lot of club memebres who have given up a lot of time and effort to put on one of the most popular races in the calendar are rightly annoyed that a few (and it is only a few who lead the ensuing groupthink) screw it up for everyone else. If we had been able to definitively identify individuals (we are looking at putting a commissaire on a motorbike for next year) they would have been binned from the race with a disciplinary charge levied. Trying to persuade riders to name names though is not easy so nothing will get done to improve it until the riders take responsibility.

Still a bit annoyed by it all.

..d

Rhys W · « **Reply #1 on:** 28 May, 2011, 09:53:35 pm »

It's surprising how much of this goes on. Looking at my friend's gallery of our club's race I was surprised to see half the bunch on the wrong side of the road in most photos. I've never heard of anybody being warned or disqualified in this race though.

On the corner I usually marshall we stop traffic on both sides of the main road - because we know we can't prevent 60-70 riders from crossing the white line as they exit the junction. What's worrying is the occasional arrogant tw@t who will drive through anyway (I had the red flag knocked out of my hand one year by an impatient motorist).

David Martin · « **Reply #2 on:** 28 May, 2011, 10:16:54 pm »

The annoying thing is that it was made abundantly clear that any crossing of the white line would not be tolerated on the A-road out. Within 3 miles of the flag drop we had the field on the wrong side of the road on blind bends. We called it immediately and stopped the field at the next safe opportunity. It is not a lack of knowledge, it is certain senior riders taking the proverbial and putting everyone else in danger and their sport in jeapordy.

Names have been named in private but until the riders grow a pair and report dangerous riding to the commissaire, they will not be brought to book and will continue to ruin the sport.

Rhys W · « **Reply #3 on:** 28 May, 2011, 11:45:42 pm »

Surely it's the job of the commissaire to note down the numbers of transgressors? After the first general warning, any riders that cross the line should be pulled out. It shouldn't be down to the bunch to police themselves.

DrMekon · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 May, 2011, 07:07:08 am »

Not a race, but I came across a club run in Cambridge last weekend. I stopped dead, as they were cutting a completely blind bend on the wrong side of the road. I didn´t recognise the strip, so it definitely wasn´t CCC or CUCC. I´ve never ridden with a club, so don´t know how these things work, but was surprised that sort of riding was tolerated.

rogerzilla · « **Reply #5 on:** 29 May, 2011, 07:10:57 am »

A club of which I used to be a member would routinely run red lights, spread across the width of the road and ignore Give Way lines on a Saturday morning. Yes, they had quite a few "accidents". To show you how bad it was, riding with them was the last time I wore a h*lm*t on the road.

mattc · « **Reply #6 on:** 29 May, 2011, 07:37:09 am »

Quote from: David Martin on 28 May, 2011, 09:21:34 pm

Much bad feeling and the organiser having to spend a couple of hours discussing with Tayside police befoer we can get the go-ahead for tomorrow. The fact that we stopped the bunch to call them to rights was in our favour.

Quote

But a lot of club memebres who have given up a lot of time and effort to put on one of the most popular races in the calendar are rightly annoyed that a few (and it is only a few who lead the ensuing groupthink) screw it up for everyone else. If we had been able to definitively identify individuals (we are looking at putting a commissaire on a motorbike for next year) they would have been binned from the race with a disciplinary charge levied.

IMHO the defence of "a few who lead the groupthink" is no defence whatsoever. If you can ID any riders who broke the rules, even if they were hanging on the back of 40 other riders, you should throw the book at them.
I can see it would be nice to punish just the "ringleaders", but if you set the example that there are No Excuses, just maybe things will change.

(Maybe you'd be pissing in the wind, but better to try.)

Police involvement seems like a good justification in case riders/members complain about 'overly harsh' enforcement.

rogerzilla · « **Reply #7 on:** 29 May, 2011, 09:14:09 am »

Can't their race licences be revoked? That's the point of a licence, isn't it?

IanDG · « **Reply #8 on:** 29 May, 2011, 09:43:18 am »

Tough decision to abandon the stage but 'bravo'.

It now needs pressure on the offenders by fellow racers who have had their day ruined, hopefully make them realise what t**ts they are.

Honest John · « **Reply #9 on:** 29 May, 2011, 07:08:55 pm »

Quote from: David Martin on 28 May, 2011, 09:21:34 pm

So what do the F*****^*^ stupid idiots do but attack on the right hand side of the road in the gutter so nobody can follow in shelter. This was less than three miles in before we stopped the bunch (having all bar three riders on the wrong side of the road is *not* acceptable when they are switching in and out of oncoming traffic n blind bends.

That's ridiculous. Why not disqualify anyone who crosses the white line?

OTOH wouldn't it be nice if this was a civilised country and the Plod closed the roads?

rogerzilla · « **Reply #10 on:** 29 May, 2011, 07:17:31 pm »

Quote from: Honest John on 29 May, 2011, 07:08:55 pm

Quote from: David Martin on 28 May, 2011, 09:21:34 pm
So what do the F*****^*^ stupid idiots do but attack on the right hand side of the road in the gutter so nobody can follow in shelter. This was less than three miles in before we stopped the bunch (having all bar three riders on the wrong side of the road is *not* acceptable when they are switching in and out of oncoming traffic n blind bends.

That's ridiculous. Why not disqualify anyone who crosses the white line?

If you read DM's post carefully, that would guarantee a podium position for the entire remaining field.

mattc · « **Reply #11 on:** 29 May, 2011, 07:21:12 pm »

Quote from: rogerzilla on 29 May, 2011, 07:17:31 pm

Quote from: Honest John on 29 May, 2011, 07:08:55 pm
That's ridiculous. Why not disqualify anyone who crosses the white line?
If you read DM's post carefully, that would guarantee a podium position for the entire remaining field.

So ... point made, and a happy podium. Am I missing something?!?

rower40 · « **Reply #12 on:** 29 May, 2011, 07:22:42 pm »

Ok, here goes... [devil's advocate]

Was it a double white line?

If not, then it's not illegal to cross the white line in the middle of the road. Yes, it gives bikes a bad name, and the person crossing it is in the wrong if a collision takes place, and they're responsible for making sure that the road is clear for the overtaking move.
[/devil's advocate]

Quote

Before the race in the briefing the riders were explicitly told that crossing the white line on the main road out to the circuit would not be tolerated.

However, if the race rules state "Thou shalt not...", then they've signed up to that, and they must be made to recognise that they've transgressed.

Bravo for enforcing the rules.

One day, all racers will have to carry Galileo satnavs (accurate enough to show which side of the white line you are), and post-race scrutiny can disqualify them. If they want to carry bike-cams to prove their innocence, then feel free.

David Martin · « **Reply #13 on:** 29 May, 2011, 08:04:52 pm »

Quote from: Rhys W on 28 May, 2011, 11:45:42 pm

Surely it's the job of the commissaire to note down the numbers of transgressors? After the first general warning, any riders that cross the line should be pulled out. It shouldn't be down to the bunch to police themselves.

We had pulled them over as soon as it was safe to do so. Unfortunately with a full field it is very hard to read the numbers on the front of a lined out bunch of 80 from the back. We will be investigating motorcycle commissaires for next year (and may 'lose' entries from some problem riders under technical regs that allow the organiser to select who they want in the race).

After a stern warning, today they were good as gold. We neutralised the first ten miles till they were on the circuit. That was hard enough to rapidly shred the bunch. Only about half finished the race today.

..d

David Martin · « **Reply #14 on:** 29 May, 2011, 08:08:17 pm »

Quote from: rower40 on 29 May, 2011, 07:22:42 pm

If they want to carry bike-cams to prove their innocence, then feel free.

UCI have banned on-bike cameras in races (something to do with TV rights).

The feedback from the riders has been very positive. A lot were very unhappy at the way things were going and were pleased it was stopped.

Today went without a hitch and with the riders as good as gold.

Honest John · « **Reply #15 on:** 29 May, 2011, 10:48:06 pm »

Quote from: David Martin on 29 May, 2011, 08:08:17 pm

Quote from: rower40 on 29 May, 2011, 07:22:42 pm
If they want to carry bike-cams to prove their innocence, then feel free.

Today went without a hitch and with the riders as good as gold.

Good.

gonzo · « **Reply #16 on:** 30 May, 2011, 02:17:54 pm »

After one particular race about 5 years back that was just embarrassing to be part of I gave up racing on the road (TTing doesn't count - that's not proper racing!).

There are lots of people who think that we should keep mass start racing on the roads, but is it really that greater idea to have riders <Cat 2 out on the roads?

David Martin · « **Reply #17 on:** 30 May, 2011, 02:37:34 pm »

Quote from: gonzo on 30 May, 2011, 02:17:54 pm

After one particular race about 5 years back that was just embarrassing to be part of I gave up racing on the road (TTing doesn't count - that's not proper racing!).

There are lots of people who think that we should keep mass start racing on the roads, but is it really that greater idea to have riders <Cat 2 out on the roads?

The problem was the 2nd Cat riders, not the 3rds or 4ths who were desperately trying to hang on the back or going out the back becasue they wouldn't ride on the RHS with oncoming traffic. It was a select few 2nd cats used to riding on rolling road closures and who were strong enough to launch an attack who were the problem.

It would be impossible here to have any races for 4th and 3rd cat riders if they were not allowed to race on the open road. We don't have any suitable off road circuits.

..d

spesh · « **Reply #18 on:** 30 May, 2011, 02:44:36 pm »

Quote from: gonzo on 30 May, 2011, 02:17:54 pm

After one particular race about 5 years back that was just embarrassing to be part of I gave up racing on the road (TTing doesn't count - that's not proper racing!).

There are lots of people who think that we should keep mass start racing on the roads, but is it really that greater idea to have riders <Cat 2 out on the roads?

Dave Moulton's blog posts on the history of cycle racing in this country are an interesting read - mass-start road racing was actually banned by the National Cyclists Union from the 1880s to the 1950s! In fairness to the NCU, there was a real risk that cycle sport might have been made illegal full stop, but in hindsight, the lack of an established road-racing culture in this country until after WW2 has made things even harder for the sport than it could have been.

Dave Moulton's Blog - Dave Moulton's Bike Blog - History of British Cycle Racing: Part I, The Ban
Dave Moulton's Blog - Dave Moulton's Bike Blog - History of British Cycle Racing: Part II, The British League of Racing Cyclists
Dave Moulton's Blog - Dave Moulton's Bike Blog - History of British Cycle Racing: Part III. The Ban from my Perspective
Dave Moulton's Blog - Dave Moulton's Bike Blog - Cyclists: The Redheaded Stepchild

amaferanga · « **Reply #19 on:** 30 May, 2011, 03:28:48 pm »

Quote from: gonzo on 30 May, 2011, 02:17:54 pm

There are lots of people who think that we should keep mass start racing on the roads, but is it really that greater idea to have riders <Cat 2 out on the roads?

I'm a 3rd Cat and race both Reg B (3rd/4th Cat) and Reg A (2nd/3rd/4th Cat) events and IME the 2nd Cats are much worse for riding on the wrong side of the road, especially when there are cross winds.

gonzo · « **Reply #20 on:** 30 May, 2011, 05:52:37 pm »

My thinking was mainly that we need some on-road competition for those who wish to move upwards and onwards/ race the national events (which are necessary to hold on roads).

Ian H · « **Reply #21 on:** 30 May, 2011, 06:13:30 pm »

Quote from: David Martin on 28 May, 2011, 09:21:34 pm

...(we are looking at putting a commissaire on a motorbike for next year)...

We had three (or was it four?) motorbikes for this year's Jack Hawkins RR, as well as three cars and marshals at every junction. It does make it a challenge to round up enough volunteers. On the plus side, the riders barely transgressed, and a trouble-maker in a car was swiftly rounded up, stopped, and given appropriate advice.

clarion · « **Reply #22 on:** 30 May, 2011, 10:21:00 pm »

Well done to the race organisers for making the difficult decision to abandon the stage. I think individual riders should have been penalised wherever possible, too, but it is really putting a head on the block to call off the day's racing, and I'm pleased someone had the cojones to tell the idiots what was what.

David Martin · « **Reply #23 on:** 30 May, 2011, 10:26:47 pm »

Quote from: clarion on 30 May, 2011, 10:21:00 pm

Well done to the race organisers for making the difficult decision to abandon the stage. I think individual riders should have been penalised wherever possible, too, but it is really putting a head on the block to call off the day's racing, and I'm pleased someone had the cojones to tell the idiots what was what.

To be honest it wasn't that hard a decision. Disappointing, but the police had serious infringements on video and it was probably a good thing to happen for a number of reasons. In the end the police refused to allow it to continue, even though the officials were the ones who had called it to halt.

sub55 · « **Reply #24 on:** 31 May, 2011, 05:24:19 pm »

Quote from: Rhys W on 28 May, 2011, 09:53:35 pm

It's surprising how much of this goes on. Looking at my friend's gallery of our club's race I was surprised to see half the bunch on the wrong side of the road in most photos. I've never heard of anybody being warned or disqualified in this race though.

On the corner I usually marshall we stop traffic on both sides of the main road - because we know we can't prevent 60-70 riders from crossing the white line as they exit the junction. What's worrying is the occasional arrogant tw@t who will drive through anyway (I had the red flag knocked out of my hand one year by an impatient motorist).

Ah! The Betty Pharoah Memorial, pleasant memories. Finished second in that one year. Was in a two man breakaway, with a snotty little nosed junior by the name of Geraint Thomas. Wonder what happened to him!

Back to the question in hand. Seen it from both sides of the coin and the general perception of risk /danger is completely different ,when competing .Not saying its right but riders will always take risks. and remember if theres no constant white line , your actually doing nothing wrong .

Author Topic: Their own worst enemy ... (Read 3629 times)

gonzo

amaferanga

gonzo