Author Topic: What does FLAT mean?  (Read 3326 times)

Bairdy

  • Former Pints Champion
What does FLAT mean?
« on: 17 August, 2014, 11:17:56 pm »
Inspired by Doo's topic asking for a 1000km event without being AAA maxed out.

It's got me thinking, what exactly does FLAT mean to other riders?


"And I been up to my neck in pleasure
              Up to my neck in pain"

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: What does FLAT mean?
« Reply #1 on: 17 August, 2014, 11:20:24 pm »
Defunct Doncaster-based rides...

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: What does FLAT mean?
« Reply #2 on: 17 August, 2014, 11:25:56 pm »
Anything with less than the 'AUK standard' of 1000m climbing in 100km. Still isn't flat compared to riding in some other parts of the world.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: What does FLAT mean?
« Reply #3 on: 17 August, 2014, 11:26:46 pm »
Defunct Doncaster-based rides...

AArgh! I still have nightmares about Bernie's Long Flat One.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: What does FLAT mean?
« Reply #4 on: 17 August, 2014, 11:29:38 pm »
Defunct Doncaster-based rides...

AArgh! I still have nightmares about Bernie's Long Flat One.

Don't know why, the Great Eastern provided even moar flatness...

menthel

  • Jim is my real, actual name
Re: What does FLAT mean?
« Reply #5 on: 17 August, 2014, 11:30:56 pm »
100km with 1000m is about standard for me. Anything with 1500m+ will have given me a good workout. Anything less than 750m would have been flat for me. It does carry the caveat on how the height comes- a few knee busters will tire me more than something that rolls.

Re: What does FLAT mean?
« Reply #6 on: 17 August, 2014, 11:34:29 pm »
Defunct Doncaster-based rides...

AArgh! I still have nightmares about Bernie's Long Flat One.

Don't know why, the Great Eastern provided even moar flatness...

Yup, rode that as well.  The horror of the 600 might be related to the fact that I rode it on fixed.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: What does FLAT mean?
« Reply #7 on: 17 August, 2014, 11:41:14 pm »
Anything I can get round on fixed without having to resort to the 24" gear...

recumbentim

  • Only 6 SR,s No hyper yet
Re: What does FLAT mean?
« Reply #8 on: 18 August, 2014, 03:03:36 am »
I do flat audaxes in scotland . This is a contradiction in terms to answer your question   --    Holland.

Bugloss

Re: What does FLAT mean?
« Reply #9 on: 18 August, 2014, 06:33:43 am »
Well, I'm hoping that The Flatlands 600 next month will be able to define flat very well although it could have its own special air generated hills.

IanDG

  • The p*** artist formerly known as 'Windy'
    • the_dandg_rouleur
Re: What does FLAT mean?
« Reply #10 on: 18 August, 2014, 07:39:14 am »
Sudden loss of air from a tyre.

The word doesn't compute as far as routes are concerned.

Re: What does FLAT mean?
« Reply #11 on: 18 August, 2014, 08:23:34 am »
Quote from: hellymedic on Yesterday at 11:20:24 PM

Defunct Doncaster-based rides...

Posted by: Ian H: Yesterday at 11:26:46 PM ยป

AArgh! I still have nightmares about Bernie's Long Flat One.

For what its worth, IMO Bernies Long Flat One 600 was an ideal first time 600.
Same format as the 3 Coasts, i.e. fixed control with loops, but without all the climbs which seem to be de rigur at the moment.
The only nightmare I have is remembering the instruction which said "TR from control, retrace to Doncaster".

Re: What does FLAT mean?
« Reply #12 on: 18 August, 2014, 09:47:59 am »
Flat to me means riding at 15kmh into a headwind with no reprieve.A bit like being on a turbo trainer with the fan on.

Re: What does FLAT mean?
« Reply #13 on: 18 August, 2014, 10:47:06 am »
Defunct Doncaster-based rides...

AArgh! I still have nightmares about Bernie's Long Flat One.

Don't know why, the Great Eastern provided even moar flatness...

Yup, rode that as well.  The horror of the 600 might be related to the fact that I rode it on fixed.

My first 600. I remember it well. I picked up some bloke on fixed, who'd become detached from the bunch around Goole. We bridged to one group, then dragged that group to the front.
We then spent a long time under the Trent embankments in a group of about 25. The odd thing was that whenever I got off the front I only made it 5 places to the back, Dave Yates was especially canny in this regard. I shot off at the turn by Nottingham, and got lost.
I saw the front group coming out of the Little Chef at Caenby Corner, tried hanging on without a feed break, bonked, had some fish and chips, and picked up a group led by Mick Potts. He tore me off a strip for riding off the front, which was fair enough, but I was keen and inexperienced.

My functional definition of a 'flat' ride is one where you can spend most of it in a group of more than five riders. That will vary with your condition, and the strength of the wind. It's actually more likely that you will end up in a group if there's a headwind.

Climbers don't like flat rides because they have to concentrate on the wheel in front a lot, as the pace drops if they lead, so the rouleurs don't let them play the locomotive. It's boring for them unless the hills make the selection. There is no absolute measure of flatness, it depends on your size, strength, fitness and resolve.
The result is that you rarely get a straight answer to this question.

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: What does FLAT mean?
« Reply #14 on: 18 August, 2014, 11:22:41 am »
All roads are equally hilly - Mandelbrot's 2nd law of, er, hilliness
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: What does FLAT mean?
« Reply #15 on: 18 August, 2014, 11:52:13 am »
Good question Mr. Baird, I've often pondered the the same.

Some might think that something like this qualifies


But actually it's part of a huge convex 27,000 mile hill (/-75 miles).

So perhaps this fits the bill a little better
where you have a concentration of power in a few hands, all too frequently men with the mentality of gangsters get control. History has proven that. Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Re: What does FLAT mean?
« Reply #16 on: 18 August, 2014, 12:01:45 pm »


If the worst hill on the trip is below the dark red line at the bottom of the chart, the ride is flat.

Re: What does FLAT mean?
« Reply #17 on: 18 August, 2014, 12:05:36 pm »
...and picked up a group led by Mick Potts. He tore me off a strip for riding off the front, which was fair enough, but I was keen and inexperienced...

I do remember Mick riding to the front, putting his hand on someone's shoulder, and suggesting they could ease up a little.

Re: What does FLAT mean?
« Reply #18 on: 18 August, 2014, 12:29:52 pm »
Good question Mr. Baird, I've often pondered the the same.


But actually it's part of a huge convex 27,000 mile hill (/-75 miles).


The difference between 'Flat', and 'Level'.  ;) :)

Re: What does FLAT mean?
« Reply #19 on: 18 August, 2014, 12:46:36 pm »
Flat means to me, quite simply, the route doesn't go up anything you could call a big hill. Handily, that definition changes depending on your steed, fitness, climbing ability and usual terrain so everyone gets to call it what it is and be equally wrong to everyone else.

Re: What does FLAT mean?
« Reply #20 on: 18 August, 2014, 02:26:50 pm »
Another measure is how easy the ride is to do with a mixed ability group, a club say. We had a discussion at Semaine Federale, with some suggesting that the areas chosen were too flat.
I had a conversation over dinner with a group from Sallanches near Chamonix, and hills were the last thing they wanted. A mixed terrain, where the club could ride together was what they were after. There's a presumption that 'allure libre' events should cater for individuals, but if you read accounts of first-time riders, or indeed a lot of LEL accounts, the help received from others features a lot. The flatter the ride, the more scope there is for that.
Hilly rides always look more 'scenic', and the hills break up a narrative account in Arrivee, but it's the articles about successful group Audaxes in club newsletters, blogs and through word of mouth that spread the word.

...and picked up a group led by Mick Potts. He tore me off a strip for riding off the front, which was fair enough, but I was keen and inexperienced...

I do remember Mick riding to the front, putting his hand on someone's shoulder, and suggesting they could ease up a little.

That's probably a more realistic account, but I remember you being in the group in front of us with Dave Yates, Jim Churton and a couple of others. I'd recovered in the back of the Potts group after being picked up, and I was riding to a HRM, so I just took it up to 160bpm, not realising that I was now under an obligation to contribute to a group with a mix of abilities. I look back at events like that with a lot more fondness than the innumerable occasions I've been dropped on climbs.


So perhaps this fits the bill a little better


Where are his mates? He's a big lad, so they're probably at the next control by now. I wonder if they'll wait for him? I suspect it's this valley we rode on the 2005 Ower the Edge.



Re: What does FLAT mean?
« Reply #21 on: 18 August, 2014, 03:00:53 pm »
Another measure is how easy the ride is to do with a mixed ability group, a club say. We had a discussion at Semaine Federale, with some suggesting that the areas chosen were too flat.
I had a conversation over dinner with a group from Sallanches near Chamonix, and hills were the last thing they wanted. A mixed terrain, where the club could ride together was what they were after. There's a presumption that 'allure libre' events should cater for individuals, but if you read accounts of first-time riders, or indeed a lot of LEL accounts, the help received from others features a lot. The flatter the ride, the more scope there is for that.
Hilly rides always look more 'scenic', and the hills break up a narrative account in Arrivee, but it's the articles about successful group Audaxes in club newsletters, blogs and through word of mouth that spread the word.

...and picked up a group led by Mick Potts. He tore me off a strip for riding off the front, which was fair enough, but I was keen and inexperienced...

I do remember Mick riding to the front, putting his hand on someone's shoulder, and suggesting they could ease up a little.

That's probably a more realistic account, but I remember you being in the group in front of us with Dave Yates, Jim Churton and a couple of others. I'd recovered in the back of the Potts group after being picked up, and I was riding to a HRM, so I just took it up to 160bpm, not realising that I was now under an obligation to contribute to a group with a mix of abilities. I look back at events like that with a lot more fondness than the innumerable occasions I've been dropped on climbs.


So perhaps this fits the bill a little better


Where are his mates? He's a big lad, so they're probably at the next control by now. I wonder if they'll wait for him? I suspect it's this valley we rode on the 2005 Ower the Edge.



The camera was held at an angle.  ;)
You can check this by zooming in to see the angle of the fence posts.

Either this or the farmer's labourers had a bad spirit level.


Re: What does FLAT mean?
« Reply #22 on: 18 August, 2014, 03:07:19 pm »
Defunct Doncaster-based rides...

AArgh! I still have nightmares about Bernie's Long Flat One.

Bernie's Long Flat One was definitely not completely flat. I distinctly recall riding over a few bridges.
You're only as successful as your last 1200...

Re: What does FLAT mean?
« Reply #23 on: 18 August, 2014, 03:13:45 pm »

The camera was held at an angle.  ;)
You can check this by zooming in to see the angle of the fence posts.

Either this or the farmer's labourers had a bad spirit level.



It's a fisheye lens, possibly a GoPro. There are more of those being used, especially with drone-cams.
It's part of a romanticisation of 'The loneliness of the long distance cyclist'. Where subjects are generally younger, thinner and more attractive than us lot, or more to the background. I'd characterise a flat ride as having more tandems, more women, more clubs, more old-timers and more riders without clipless pedals.

Re: What does FLAT mean?
« Reply #24 on: 18 August, 2014, 03:22:30 pm »
most of el Supremo rides are flat or flat (ish) he would say