How do I stop a "half wheeler"

[Psychler]

Most Mondays I go out for 40 odd miles with George and Kelvin [neither on the forum]; we've been doing this for almost a couple of years now.  I've ridden with George for many years and we work well together but Kelvin [lovely chap as he is] has some annoying and quite dangerous habits. 

He is a non-stop talker and while he constantly calls out "car" etc he doesn't warn on potholes etc.  His concentration on the road is lacking, he's usually much too far out into the road and his positioning relative to us other two riders is not good.  When he rides he is always on the outside but positions himself wherever he is best placed to have a conversation and he is very poor at holding his line.   

Our "formation" tends to be me in front, George behind with Kelvin on the outside moving forward and back as the whim takes him.  George and I tend to leave a nice bike sized gap between us for Kelvin to pull into if neccessary. 

The problem is that Kelvin is normally half wheeling either me or George.  A few weeks back it caused a minor accident, when he gave no warning of a pothole and moved in to attempt to ride kerbside of it, resulting in a coming together.

We've talked to him about it but it doesn't seem to sink in, it's possibly a case of "can't teach an old dogs new tricks" [Kelvin is 67, he's fit as a flea but he's only been riding regularly for 2 years or so]. 

George and I try to drop back if he starts half wheeling but he slows with us.  Also if we ride outside him we often end up on the wrong side of the road [we're usually on quiet country roads] as he often rides too far out.

Any tips on how we can deal with him [hopefully without hurting his feelings too much]?

[IanDG]

Tip him in the ditch 

Seriously tho' I've met a lot of riders just like you describe and I've never found a way to bring them to heel.

[Dibdib]

I always think it's tough to ride in a three because one person always ends up sitting behind on their own.

Can you rotate the three so that 2/3 of the time he's got someone to talk to, or invite someone else so you've got a four?

[Kim]

Could you all get some group riding lessons together from a third party?

[Veloman]

Have you discussed it with him?

perhaps he is blissfully unaware of the angst and concern he is causing you.  Why not have a chat over a coffee at the café?

When someone does this on the club runs I attend they are quickly reminded to "get a shorter bike" or something like that.  Point is, they are informed of what they are doing and the fact that it is not required or welcomed as it disrupts the ride.

[bikenrrd]

Tell him that chatting is for the coffee shop / pub and that you'll be doing chain gang style through and off, rather than riding 2up + 1.
Then put the hammer down.

[jsabine]

Tell him, succinctly but politely, *every* time he does it.

Either it'll prompt him into better habits, or it'll annoy him so much he rides better in order to shut you up, or it'll annoy him so much he never rides with you again.

Two good outcomes out of three can't be bad (and even the third will stop his bad habits winding you up).

[citoyen]

Tell him that chatting is for the coffee shop / pub and that you'll be doing chain gang style through and off

Riding through-and-off was the first thought that occurred to me. Apart from anything else, it would be a good way for him to learn how to hold his line and to ride at a steady pace. Just watch out for potholes when it's his turn on the front.

I like jsabine's suggestion too.

[Andrew]

Start by mentioning it politely, saying it's considered 'not done'. Then have a decent reason lined up if he asks, child-like, "Why?"

He probably doesn't know he's doing something wrong, being blissfully unaware that others are seething, and even less likely to know why it's considered bad form.

Personally, I'm only aware of someone doing it (or doing it myself) because it becomes more difficult to talk to another rider if I'm a half-wheel in front/behind.

[Charlotte]

Let his tyres down at the cafe stop until he stops doing it.

[Jacomus]

My suggestion would be to have a chat to him about it. It's a safety issue and on every trip safety comes first.

If he can't understand the dangers of half wheeling, or worse, isn't concerned by the fact he is increasing the danger somebody else is in, then you've got a tricky decision on your hands - put up with his low standard of riding, or stop inviting him.