Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => OT Knowledge => Topic started by: velosam on 22 October, 2018, 10:33:18 am
-
I have just bought a house. Turns out that the central heating thermostat only kicks in at 25C!
Is it an easy change to a new one, and any recommendations of what to buy and how to change the whole unit?
thanks
sam
-
Straight swop?
-
Very easy to replace.
Only thing to be aware of is that there are 3-wire models ( Live in, switched live out, and Neutral ), and 2-wire models ( no Neutral connection ).
Simplest is to replace like-for-like.
-
If you've got power available at the thermostat location, there's a lot to be said for fitting a wireless unit (the receiver wires in like a normal thermostat), so you can move the controller around to the room you're actually in. Thermostats often get installed in positions that make the wiring easier, rather than where sensing the temperature is most useful.
Consider internet-of-shit smart stuff, if you're that way inclined.
-
Plus some of the newer stats also allow multiple programmes, so for instance a cooler temp weekday mornings when you're getting ready to go to work, but warmer when you get in in the evening, with different profiles at the weekend.
But yes, it's a simple job to wire in the replacement. Even if you just want a simple replacement I'd urge you to get a digital one, which gives much closer control of the temp with much reduced hysteresis.
I used this one
https://www.screwfix.com/p/honeywell-dt90e-digital-room-thermostat-eco/41365
-
I got an Amazon Echo last week. Great device.
I have a radio controlled thermostat. The control box is on the wall beside the boiler.
Any ide how wassy/hard it is to replace the thermostat with an Amazon compatible one?
And what brand? Nest looks nice. Or Hive?
Bad stories welcomed as are good.
-
Only thing to be aware of is that there are 3-wire models ( Live in, switched live out, and Neutral ), and 2-wire models ( no Neutral connection ).
Simplest is to replace like-for-like.
There are also boilers where the thermostat connection is low voltage DC and they require either a fully mechanical thermostat or a battery powered electronic one.
(On either type, you need to treat the thermostat wires as potentially mains voltage and take appropriate precautions)
-
I got an Amazon Echo last week. Great device.
I have a radio controlled thermostat. The control box is on the wall beside the boiler.
Any ide how wassy/hard it is to replace the thermostat with an Amazon compatible one?
And what brand? Nest looks nice. Or Hive?
Bad stories welcomed as are good.
In my mind your options are:
Nest
Nest, or alternatively
Nest.
Yes they are spendy, compared to "dumb" 'stats, but ours saved us ~£1000 in it's first year of use (3 adults (near enough) and a cat in 3 bed detached)
I am guessing the one the OP has is a Honeywell, my experience with them is that, after about 10-15 years they simply become random number generators. One day your house will be at >30C, the next at <5C, with no rhyme or reason as to why.
-
We went for Tado.
As Kim intimates, all the internet controlly things are a compromise and have pluses and minuses.
Our system is great - we have expanded it over the time we have had it to now control every room using wireless radiator thermostat valves; if we are only using 2 rooms, they are the only ones heated. Some rooms are on special timings; eg bathroom for the time we usually use it, bedroom just before bedtime, etc.
Coupled with the smartphone location control ability of this system (if we are both out of the house, the heating goes off; as we approach home, it goes back on before we get there), and the ability to easily set different per room programs for every day of the week if necessary, it is a very powerful system and has saved us a little money on the heating - not quite the "31%" claimed by the manufacturer; more in the region of ~15%, I reckon, looking at previous years usages.
Fitting was dead easy - take old thermostat off, wire up the new one using detailed instructions, sign up for an internet account, download phone app and off you go. On the radiators (if installed) simply unscrew the old TRV and replace with the wireless TRV (plus a readily available adaptor if the thread is non-standard) and follow the simple instructions for pairing and setup.
Pros:
Endless per room automated control if desired.
Once you have the system set up to your liking you just forget about it and let it do its job; you don't even need to touch it if you go away (location based control).
Location based control. Easy override of control manually or using mobile phone app anywhere you have signal/wifi.
Auto frost protection.
Reasonably good integration with Alexa/google/IFTTT, etc.
Auto "open window" detection - shuts off heating to room if it detects open window/outside door - reasonably reliable...
Intelligent room heating - heating does not overshoot (at least not very much); it allegedly "learns" a rooms thermal characteristics and adjusts for outside temperature to integrate heating curves.
Cons:
Needs interweb though it can easily be controlled manually if the web is down.
Batteries in thermostats last about a year and the system emails you when a battery is running low - replacement is easy; I bought cheap job lots of batteries on amazon.
Setup can be expensive if you are doing a whole (large) house (I got the basic started kit on a special offer for £125 at the time, the upstairs zone thermostat for another £100 and then each radiator for ~£60). I reckon it will pay for itself in about 2-3 years. (OvO is currently offering 20% off on Tado, apparently)
Unlike Nest, it does not "learn" your movements and setting; you manually set room/house programs to what you want and change them whenever you like (which I prefer).
Webb app not quite as nice as the phone app.
I am still waiting for Tado to implement a separate hot water control similar to their air conditioning control; our house with 2 separate pumped zones is just a little too "complicated" to allow hot water as well; I may get around to hacking a ciustom solution sometime....
-
Our dumb Honeywell makes an extended tctctcttcccttttccctttcccctttccccttttcctttttcttttcccctttttccccttt noise when turning on or off sometimes. I assume something vibrates inside. Flicking it seems to work. Possibly it runs off agitated moths. That's my working theory at the moment. Temperature-sensing moths. They seem to work though. Setting it to eighteen degrees seems to consistently result in a house of 21-22 degrees.
I do keep meaning to get one of those internet-of-things things. To be honest, the dumb one mostly works fine, it's in the hallway so not exposed to the vagueries of drafts and open doors. Through careful tweaking of thermostatic valves, the house warms evenly, by setting everything low upstairs, the heat rising up the stairwell balances out. As we never close doors (because cats) everything just works. I'm not convinced of the benefits of further sophistication and zones now everything is in balance. There's no point heating a single room if you can't close the door. We used to have zones and stuff in the last house, never really bothered, all the heat went up the big three-story central stairwell.
That said, it would be nice sometimes to turn it on and off remotely. An off-button for cats would also be helpful.
-
The Honeywell Evohome system works well. Possibly a bit more expensive than others. It has an internet connection, but it works fine without it, and it does all the timed settings, holiday periods etc without it. Each radiator valve runs on two AA batteries and seems to last over a year, and then gives a warning on the control panel.
-
Mine is a Drayton Room Stat and its connected to a glow worm blower, both close to be antiques.
I may have to change the boiler next year, so I don't its not worth me spending loads if I am going to have to upgrade the whole system. Also two of the rooms have relatively low usage (kids bedrooms) so it kind of makes sense to have something where I can set alternative temps.
The thermostat is in the very small hallway so subject to the influences of an opening and closing door.
Given its mains voltage will it have a particular fuse or do I have to switch off all the electrics in the house?
I could not see a particular fuse for it
-
Central heating is usually powered by a fused spur (or 13A plug-inna-socket acting as a lazy plumber's double-pole isolator) from the sockets ring main, normally by the boiler or in the airing cupboard.
-
I got an Amazon Echo last week. Great device.
I have a radio controlled thermostat. The control box is on the wall beside the boiler.
Any ide how wassy/hard it is to replace the thermostat with an Amazon compatible one?
And what brand? Nest looks nice. Or Hive?
Bad stories welcomed as are good.
Yes they are spendy, compared to "dumb" 'stats, but ours saved us ~£1000 in it's first year of use (3 adults (near enough) and a cat in 3 bed detached)
Holy moly, was your boiler running on tenners?
Thread hijack:
Can someone explain to me how having certain rooms unheated/lower T makes the heating more efficient? Surely if you're only heating one room the boiler is still being run to heat that room? Or is it to do with the fact that the water is at higher T when it returns to the boiler without all the other radiators on sucking it cold?
-
Yes, that's pretty much it.
There are various thermostatic devices in a typical heating system.
Room Stat: Usually in the hallway, not a useful place. Will usually be Calling for Heat, because even if the rooms are warm, the hall may not be.
TRVs: Since the room stat is pretty much always On, the room TRVs are probably what's actually controlling the heat output.
Boiler stat: Once the room TRVs shut down and the return is coming from the bypass loop ( eg the towel rail ), then the boiler will shut down when that's also hot.
So yes, once the return temperature is indicating that none of the radiators is dumping heat, then the boiler will cycle off.
-
Hmm, I'm also not convinced overall that if you're heating the house to a desirable temperature and everything is balanced and nowhere is too hot, there's much more to be done with the heating – money is probably better spent on keeping the heat in. I suppose some the heat goes up the flue when the boiler is running.
I've no idea what efficient is, we're waiting for our boiler to die, which is refuses to do. Ancient Gloworm thing. Loath to replace it while it still seems to work perfectly. Our combined electricity and gas for a winter quarter is about £300-350 for a four-bed detached house, though admittedly we only run the heating in the morning and evening. I run a oil-filled radiator in my remote command centre during the day rather than heat the entire house. There's obviously a blip in winter when the in-laws turn up for Chrismas and turn the thermostat to Bahrain.
-
Ta. I'm not convinced it would be worth a smart/zoned/etc system with a grand total of 5 radiators. I only finally got round to hanging up the wireless stat last week. It used to live in the lounge til we got the
furnace stove installed whereupon I relocated it to the bedroom. I don't think it was really designed to be sat on a chest of drawers.
I do like the idea of the weather/thermal mass compensator though. Not that I'm doing anything until the boiler decides to go on the fritz regularly - I'm not convinced the energy efficiency benefits would outweigh the cost to the environment of building a new boiler for our meagre abode.
-
+1 for tado. Very easy to install and setup. The geo-fencing works really well, it detects when there's no one in and turns the temperature down and switches the hot water off. As energy bills rise smart heating systems can pay back very quickly.
-
I have just bought a house. Turns out that the central heating thermostat only kicks in at 25C!
Is it an easy change to a new one, and any recommendations of what to buy and how to change the whole unit?
thanks
sam
It may be simpler to keep the existing one, if it's one with an actual dial, rather than electronic. You can lift it off the spindle, turn it clockwise a bit, so that the temperature it shows when it clicks on it is more in line with the current temperature.
-
The main win I've found with smart heating control is that it automagically adapts according to whether we're upstairs, downstairs, or not in. And as it knows when we're in bed and when the alarm (if any) is set for, it does the right thing there, too. I'm sure it saves some fuel (we've not had a dumb system since we moved into this house), but the primary benefit is improved comfort. There's a lot to be said to being able to push a button to boost the heating while you're in bed, or as your train arrives at Mordor.
Whether a simple timer could achieve the same thing depends on how consistent your habits are, and how big a natural temperature difference between rooms you have to fight.
-
Yes they are spendy, compared to "dumb" 'stats, but ours saved us ~£1000 in it's first year of use....
Holy hell - what is your normal bill? We only pay a little more than you've *saved* for gas AND leccy.
-
My new boiler came with a complicated RF battery-powered thermostat.
My summer gas bill dropped a bit, presumably due to lack of hot water cylinder, but winter bills were much the same.
-
We went with a Conrad EQ3 control system, which gives us room level programs, but wasn't as expensive as a full blown nest/tado system which is what I really wanted.
Each room is fully programmable, and there's a hall 'call for heat' thermostat.
Conrad do an Internet connected device that works with the EQ3 system, but it seemed archaic, and the translation of the instructions from the German was iffy.
We've definitely seen an improvement in comfort levels, but savings are hard to pin down because we have changed the boiler too.
(The radiator TRVs for the EQ3 system are also sold by Pegler, but they are not compatible with the EQ3 controllers DAHIKT)
-
Hmm, I'm still unconvinced that some of these systems aren't a bit overengineered unless you live in a mansion or stately home, perhaps a palace, or maybe a castle. I'd deffo get one if I lived in a castle. Well, after getting a moat, of course. And a drawbridge. I think ravens too. And sharks for the moat. But then I'd get mega-zonal thermostaticalators. They'd be right up there near the top of the list. Oh, maidens too. In turrets. Comfortably warm turrets. I'd probably have to heat the moat too, for the sharks.
I was never convinced the one we had in our last place wasn't an excuse for buttons and contrary controls. Press and hold. PRESS AND HOLD DAMMIT! I think I set some temperatures than got bored. All the heat got sucked up the big central stairwell anyway. I don't think the radiators on the top floor ever came on.
(Anyway, to prove that my household appliances read this forum, the (probably needing replacing) CO alarm in the boiler cupboard went off at 6.40am. A delightful way to be awakened. It didn't trip any of the others or go off again, and I'm not dead. Leastways, I think I'm not.)
-
Our house was built in four phases. There are 11 radiators in 9 rooms and the kitchen has underfloor heating. There is a wood-burning stove in the lounge.
There is no way that one thermostat could measure a representative temperature. Fixed thermostatic valves can limit overheating but don't respond that well, and they can't wind up and down for different times of day. Also having electronic valves in each room means that the boiler never runs unless needed, so we are very happy with our choice.
-
a slightly devious method of obtaining almost fully independent control over all your radiators (for peanuts) is as follows:
-Install conventional TRVs on all the radiators
- Install a plugtop mains timer near each of the radiators that gobble energy (high power output in parts of the house that are not used often)
- use a simple plugtop DC supply to drive a small heater, eg about 2W rated. A suitable 5W resistor glued to a piece of metal will do it.
- attach the heater to the wax capsule on the TRV
Set the timer so that the small heater is 'on' when you want that radiator inhibited, and override the system when you want the radiator to be hot.
The way it works is that when the TRV capsule is heated by the small heater, the TRV closes more easily than normal. Depending on the ambient temperature and the heater power, the radiator can be shut off at a lower power and/or lower temperature than normal.
Obviously you can do clever things with fancy timers (which can be interrupted and then resume their normal program) and remote controlled mains sockets and stuff like that.
cheers
-
When we moved into our new house we realised that the builders had made a right mess of the thermostat zones. So I bought a number of small programmable TRVs to replace the standard. They can be programmed with multiple on/off sessions per day, different programs for each day, etc. They have now lasted 5 years with about 4 battery changes and work very well. I will probably move to Nest/Hive/etc when the stop working.
-
a slightly devious method of obtaining almost fully independent control over all your radiators (for peanuts) is as follows:
-Install conventional TRVs on all the radiators
- Install a plugtop mains timer near each of the radiators that gobble energy (high power output in parts of the house that are not used often)
- use a simple plugtop DC supply to drive a small heater, eg about 2W rated. A suitable 5W resistor glued to a piece of metal will do it.
- attach the heater to the wax capsule on the TRV
Set the timer so that the small heater is 'on' when you want that radiator inhibited, and override the system when you want the radiator to be hot.
The way it works is that when the TRV capsule is heated by the small heater, the TRV closes more easily than normal. Depending on the ambient temperature and the heater power, the radiator can be shut off at a lower power and/or lower temperature than normal.
Obviously you can do clever things with fancy timers (which can be interrupted and then resume their normal program) and remote controlled mains sockets and stuff like that.
cheers
Devious, urm maybe
Completely fucking insane, yes.
Pointless, most definately.
-
I confess, I find the inevitable positioning of TRV somewhat amusing. Where would the best position be to monitor the temperature of the room? On the floor, next to the rad? Possibly not. I like the idea of the remote controlled TRV, but I suspect they would add little to the overall comfort and (here, at least) are not likely to be used in a way that will save fuel and money. Rooms we use, we heat, rooms we don't are switched off. The underfloor in the kitchen being several inches under screed and tiles has thermal inertia meaning rapid changes just don't happen.
Something Ian referred to earlier though, was the idea of balancing a system: tuning the return valves so that all rooms heat equally. I wonder how many have bothered doing that? (or even, knew it would be a benefit)
-
I've not seen any in the UK that I can recall, but in several European hotels the TRV has had a capillary tube to a remote bulb, just to get it some distance away from the radiator.
-
Something Ian referred to earlier though, was the idea of balancing a system: tuning the return valves so that all rooms heat equally. I wonder how many have bothered doing that? (or even, knew it would be a benefit)
We made the service guy from BG do ours. Took him about two hours of running between rooms...
Other than that we don't really fiddle. I'm not sure there's a lot of point in keeping some rooms cold. All the TRVs upstairs are set low on the grounds that heat rises from the lower floor. With no closed doors, heat spreads anyway, so there's little point in substantial differential heating. The ground floor is mostly open plan, we have a big open living/dining room space with the mezzanine/remote command centre opening out into it via an open stairwell. It seems more sensible to heat the entire house anyway unless you're literally living in a single room. If you have teenagers or cats, you're unlikely to keep doors closed anyway.
Anyway, the result is a fairly even temperature throughout. We leave a window open a tad in the spare room but we dry clothes in there and the dehumidifier usually kicks out enough warm air to make up the difference.
It's a happy medium and frankly a lot less hassle than the zillions of controls and options we had in the last place. But I admit I'm the sort of guy that just wants stuff to work with minimal intervention.
My use case for internet-enabled thing would simply to turn it on and off remotely rather than rely on a timer. If we're heading home early in the winter months (probably because we've been stomping around the country in the cold rain for several hours) it would be nice to kick in the heating early. We don't have the benefits of any other heat source (I have 'fond' memories of being a child and fighting my sister to get in front of the gas fire). Same for the hot water. Also, I'm always forgetting to turn things off when we head off on various travels.
-
Something Ian referred to earlier though, was the idea of balancing a system: tuning the return valves so that all rooms heat equally. I wonder how many have bothered doing that? (or even, knew it would be a benefit)
We made the service guy from BG do ours. Took him about two hours of running between rooms...
SOP isn't it? The primary means of balancing is to make sure the radiators and the pipe runs are sized correctly so the radiators are likely to see the correct amount of flow, but there are always tweaks to be made. Everyone's needs (and everyone's houses) are different.
FWIW on the continent they think we are all mad in the UK. They build houses with vastly better standards of insulation, with ventilation systems that have heat exchangers built into them, and heat them (to a more or less constant temperature, not just twice a day) using boilers that are (by UK standards) absolutely tiny. A 5kW boiler is a common type for a good-sized family home.
Devious, urm maybe
Completely fucking insane, yes.
Pointless, most definately.
your opinion. As pointless as programmable TRVs...? I may tell the chap that cooked up that scheme you said that. He will die laughing probably.
cheers
-
FWIW on the continent they think we are all mad in the UK. They build houses with vastly better standards of insulation, with ventilation systems that have heat exchangers built into them, and heat them (to a more or less constant temperature, not just twice a day) using boilers that are (by UK standards) absolutely tiny. A 5kW boiler is a common type for a good-sized family home.
Yes, but our houses and government are owned by rich Baby-Boomers who don't give a stuff about gas bills or the environment.
-
FWIW on the continent they think we are all mad in the UK. They build houses with vastly better standards of insulation, with ventilation systems that have heat exchangers built into them, and heat them (to a more or less constant temperature, not just twice a day) using boilers that are (by UK standards) absolutely tiny. A 5kW boiler is a common type for a good-sized family home.
That's rather a sweeping statement I think. Not ALL European countries do that by any means. And some houses over here are built like that (my Dutch colleague lives in one such dwelling in Milton Keynes, which also has solar PV. It was two days before they noticed their boiler had failed to restart after a power cut.).
-
your opinion. As pointless as programmable TRVs...? I may tell the chap that cooked up that scheme you said that. He will die laughing probably.
cheers
Close personal friend are you? Thought not.
My point was around the idiocy, or pointlessness, of the process you described, not about the use of TRVs, which I have installed at my house.
-
For some unapologetic gender stereotyping (it's true I tell you), it's a boy thing. A woman, placed in charge of the design and implementation of a device will install a simple on/off switch and move along.
A boy, on the other hand, will look at the on/off functionality and design a control panel with three dials, six buttons and two LEDs with a removable faceplate. On being asked how to turn the device on, the instructions will be: turn dial 1 to 4, dial 2 to 6, and leave dial 3 at zero. Hold buttons A,B, and D simultaneously until you hear a 3-second beep and the second LED lights up and then turn dial 3 to 2 and dial 1 to zero. If you hear a two-second beep, keep holding buttons A, B, D and also C until the two-second beep sounds and LED 1 lights up. Then turn dial 2 to 10 and the other dials to 0. If the LED 2 lights up and there are two two-second beeps, then remove the faceplate and use a type of screwdriver you don't have to turn the actuator one quarter turn clockwise and then replace the faceplate and repeat to turn the device on. For more information, please consult the badly translated Chinenglish manual that we've included on a 3 inch CD that would not have played even when people had optical drives.
Of course, you will have the modern alternative of an app with myriad options, so you can be frustrated remotely. And this is why men shouldn't be put in charge of anything. They'll just festoon it with needless buttons and options.
-
your opinion. As pointless as programmable TRVs...? I may tell the chap that cooked up that scheme you said that. He will die laughing probably.
cheers
Close personal friend are you? Thought not.
My point was around the idiocy, or pointlessness, of the process you described, not about the use of TRVs, which I have installed at my house.
Actually I was best man at his wedding. [BTW these days he runs a company making stuff that is so complicated that most folk don't begin to understand it]. It is/was as pointless as programmable TRVs (as chrisbainbridge happily reports using upthread) , which you couldn't then buy. These days you can get them with not only built in timers but with Bluetooth connections too. The point is that you can easily build something (from bits and pieces you might have lying around more or less) that does the job if you put your mind to it, and you don't have to drain the system to fit it either.
-
Brucey, one of you is lying, or older than you let on.
The TRV was invented, by Danfoss, in 1943....
I'll just leave that, there, shall I?
-
Brucey, one of you is lying, or older than you let on.
The TRV was invented, by Danfoss, in 1943....
I'll just leave that, there, shall I?
But when were programmable TRVs invented?
For reference (my selective quoting):-
...It is/was as pointless as programmable TRVs (as chrisbainbridge happily reports using upthread) , which you couldn't then buy.
I'll open the bidding with 2012, from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermostatic_radiator_valve
As of 2012, electronic TRVs are becoming available which use electronic temperature sensing, and frequently contain programmers so that individual radiators may be programmed for different temperatures at different times of the day.
-
seems reasonable to me. It was many years before that when the thing described was done.
Still working BTW...
cheers
-
seems reasonable to me. It was many years before that when the thing described was done
And presumably still pissing away electricity. A couple of watts for the heater, plus the inefficiency of the wall wart (which is probably linear, if it pre-dates programmable TRVs), plus the power consumption of the timer (which is surprisingly high for the mechanical ones as were common in that era), multiplied by the number of radiators soon adds up.
Okay, that's a win compared to heating rooms unnecessarily, but an electronic valve with an actuator that only draws power when changing state is going to be a substantial improvement.
Of course, then you have to balance the cost of running an inefficient thing vs replacing it with a more efficient new one.
-
People really should also be considering installing external compensators for the efficient running of their boilers. I understand that HMG is consulting on making them compulsory for new installations. (unless they have already done so).
-
I'm surprised anyone crazy enough to come up with such a scheme bothered with the wall wart rather than just wiring the mains directly to the resistor.
(maybe I've watched too many Big Clive fun-with-mains videos)
-
People really should also be considering installing external compensators for the efficient running of their boilers. I understand that HMG is consulting on making them compulsory for new installations. (unless they have already done so).
Not yet, and our boiler was installed last weekend!
-
seems reasonable to me. It was many years before that when the thing described was done
And presumably still pissing away electricity. A couple of watts for the heater, plus the inefficiency of the wall wart (which is probably linear, if it pre-dates programmable TRVs), plus the power consumption of the timer (which is surprisingly high for the mechanical ones as were common in that era), multiplied by the number of radiators soon adds up.
Okay, that's a win compared to heating rooms unnecessarily, but an electronic valve with an actuator that only draws power when changing state is going to be a substantial improvement.
Of course, then you have to balance the cost of running an inefficient thing vs replacing it with a more efficient new one.
fair points all, but I don't think you have taken into account all the factors;
a) it was only done on a couple of radiators
b) the system only needs to run for about five months a year
c) the PSU was an efficient inverter type
d) the timer was electronic (with a battery backup)
e) the heater is (of course.... ::-)) timed only to run when that CH heating zone is 'on' but that radiator isn't needed; typically this might be a couple of hours a day.
The radiators concerned were large ones in cool spaces that were not needed at all times when the rest of the system was 'on' typically in either the morning or the evening. IIRC when those radiators were 'on' they comprised the bulk of the load on the boiler after the system had been on for half an hour or so.
By my reckoning each heater used one or two units of electricity per year (plus whatever it took to run the timer which can't have been much, in any event it was hardly "pissing away electricity"....) , took about three-quarters of an hour to dream up and fit, and saved at least £100 per year in fuel bills for the boiler. I think that was pretty good value.
cheers
-
People really should also be considering installing external compensators for the efficient running of their boilers. I understand that HMG is consulting on making them compulsory for new installations. (unless they have already done so).
As mentioned up thread I think they sound like a good idea.
I'd like some other people to try it out first though, I've learned my lesson about being an early adopter.
-
To be honest, unless you have the elite skillz to do it yourself, or have a well-fed pet gas appliance installation engineer, does anyone trust any kind of boiler and controls will be installed right? I think every house I've owned and lived in has suffered from one kludge. More things is more things to do wrong.
In The Asbestos Palace, facing the arduous task of properly fitting the flue with screws and brackets and stuff, he (and I'm sure it was), opted to wedge it in place with a random bit of wood.
-
Snip.......it's a boy thing. Snip.... And this is why men shouldn't be put in charge of anything. They'll just festoon it with needless buttons and options.
Speak for yourself, it's On/Off for me.
I can't be arsed with all that technology pissing around app bollocks.
-
Ooops - I posted this on a different thread:
The thermostat in our house has had a broken LCD display forever, and is now out of warranty and >100 to replace.
I've been instructed to sort it out however I see fit, so now I have carte blance to install something I like, with the proviso it has to work well and be sorted soon (so no roll-my-own - would take until domomsday). The house is 3 stories - generally the ground floor (office) is freezing, the middle (the living area and kitchen, also where the thermostat is) is reasonable, and the upstairs (bedrooms) is too hot! Dumb radiator valves don't solve the issues because we only really need the upstairs heating in the morning, and the middle and ground floors heating in the evening.
The current front runner is Tado (mainly because you can do the smart thermostat thing first, and then go for smart radiator valves later). Has anyone got any experience (good or bad) or using Tado?
-
I did book a Hive installation for the reasons mentioned. I think I might leave the old disconnected thermostat on the wall so the in-laws can adjust it as they please and hide the actual thermostat upstairs. It sort of works in the hall now, but probably not the best place as it has two radiators (plus the downstairs loo) and no external walls.
The cats will hate us once we start turning down the heat when we're out in an evening (Bad Cat likes to sleep suspended between the back of the sofa and the windowsill, her belly soaking up all the heat).
Anyway, three-week wait for the installation but tbh, I can't get too excited by a new heating thermostat. Oh I've tried.
-
Reviving this thread. Looking for advice on which smart home thermostat to choose.
I live in a two bedroom two bathroom apartment. I find that the temperature is never right in our lounge, which has two radiators but is complicated by having an enormous window facing south which captures heat when it is sunny.
I have a gas condensing boiler. The boiler is connected directly to a wall unit marked Salus in the cupboard. There is a remote wireless unit which is used to set the temperature.
I recently got an Amazon Echo Dot, so any smart system should be Amazon compatible.
I rather like the idea of wireless remote control TRVs, so we could maybe heat the bedrooms on demand and keep them cooler otherwise.
I am a British Gas customer, but not particularly sold on the Hive system unless folks think it is the bees knees.
Also ideally I would like a smart system which recognises when Mrs Scum comes home and switches up the heating for her.
I guess just Mrs S asking "Alexa - turn on the heating" would be sufficient.
-
Don’t know if it’s Alexa compatible as I don’t have Alexa or equivalent, but I like our Honeywell Evohome setup. I did it myself as plumber thought it ‘too complicated’. Individual room control with no need to Felipe.
Mike
-
Well, they're fitting my Hive next week. Seemed to tick the boxes. I'm don't especially see the point of voice-control unless you'd habitually left tied naked to the bed by Madame Spankopoulis (while she pops out to Sainsbury's to stock up on whipped cream) and the bedroom is prone to the occasional drafty chill. In which case, it's probably useful to have Alexa turn up the heating. Or you could just get the whipped cream beforehand. Generally, I get dressed before addressing Alexa, it feels weird otherwise.
Turning it up and down and on-off remotely seems the best thing. I think it has geofencing, but generally having it turning on when I'm at the bottom of the drive isn't useful. Probably has some kind of radius feature though.
-
Hi
That could be because the room temperature is 25 degrees. If that's not the case then you would need to replace it. It's very easy to install. We recommend the programmable thermostat for its energy saving features. You can set it to go on just before you get home and to go off when no one is home.
-
I'm thinking I'll go for Tado. You can get the generic install with one thermostat, which makes it like a Hive/Nest, but you can also add thermostatic radiator valves for controlling temperature room by room (or floor by floor - we have a townhouse, so 3 floors).
I'm sitting on my hands and waiting for Black Friday to see if there are any deals though (there were for Hive and Nest in Amazon last year).
-
Weve had a Nest for a while here. Extremely handy to be able to adjust the temperature from the comfort of the sofa, or when in bed. When we are all out it turns the tmperature down to 17.5C which is the lowest my cats will tolerate.
If you’re on your way home from an Audax / wet dog walk/ soaking motorbike ride you can pre-heat the house to 26C for your arrival. A bit disconcerting for anyone already in the house sometimes ;D
I like the way the Nest app also has your Nest camera feeds in it so dont need a separate app for that. I wish our Philips Hue lighting was within the same app too really.
-
It could all go wrong if one inadvertently turns on the camera rather than the heating while waiting for Madame S to pop back from Sainsbury's.
-
When we are all out it turns the tmperature down to 17.5C which is the lowest my cats will tolerate.
I'm sorry, but I have to ask, how do you know? Do you come home to them all piled on top of each other while wearing your hats & scarves? ;D ;D
-
They write protest letters and then, if ignored, bring out the placards and slogans.
Mine are going to hate me, especially Bad Cat if she can't belly-hammock the living room radiator.
-
When we are all out it turns the tmperature down to 17.5C which is the lowest my cats will tolerate.
I'm sorry, but I have to ask, how do you know? Do you come home to them all piled on top of each other while wearing your hats & scarves? ;D ;D
Our 3 Ragdolls, whilst mostly non-verbal and lacking opposable thumbs are extremely good at communicating displeasure to their huuumins ;D
-
I'm thinking I'll go for Tado. You can get the generic install with one thermostat, which makes it like a Hive/Nest, but you can also add thermostatic radiator valves for controlling temperature room by room (or floor by floor - we have a townhouse, so 3 floors).
I'm sitting on my hands and waiting for Black Friday to see if there are any deals though (there were for Hive and Nest in Amazon last year).
I like the flexibility of individual room thermostats. I would probably bite the bullet on the expense and go with Tado if I were starting this process all over again - as I've said somewhere here before, I've got a German system (bought through Conrad) that works very well for me, but that I'd find it really hard to recommend to anyone else.
-
Finally got my Hive thing. The engineer ran off before he'd finished it (5.30pm wasn't it) with the words 'it just takes a bit of time to pair' which meant the thermostat was still attempting this an hour later like some kind of tiring electronic foreplay.
It's a bugger to set up since three devices have to talk to each other which involves getting them all into pairing mode, which involves a festival of precise clicking and holding of random buttons. The only exception is the hub which has a pairing button. Which, of course, appears mostly undocumented. Some of it comes close to taking the piss, holding two stiff buttons on the thermostat while inserting the batteries (which was evidently unnecessary, just rebooting the thermostat was fine). Designers of consumer hardware take note – pairing a Sonos speaker, for instance, involves pressing a single button and getting a cheerfully responsive ding.
Anyway, some time and swearing later... Top tip, lock the doors until you're sure the engineer has finished everything.
Seems fine, warm stuff came out as planned and the shower was hot. Only real other gripe is the scheduler which doesn't let you schedule past midnight in any intuitive way (you have to 'pull' the slot from the next day) – fine once you know how, but a bit of a software fail that left me scratching my head for several minutes. Otherwise, it's all fairly straightforward to control via the app and a lot better than the clunky old wall-mounted controller. You can nudge your schedules about quite easily, like this morning as my wife is working from home, so it's a few seconds to start the heating at 7.30 rather than 5.30am. Previously that would have involved twenty minutes with the options on the controller which frankly I wouldn't have bothered with.
You can turn it on by shouting at Alexa. Unfortunately, you can't switch it back to the schedule by shouting at Alexa. This seems to be the curse of every Alexa skill though, you can do but never undo. It's like the developer of every skill does half and then breaks for lunch and never comes back (which I suppose has a kind of symmetry). To be fair, quite useful if you wake up before the heating is scheduled to come on – previously you'd have to risk hypothermia and tripping over a cat headfirst down the stairs in your rush to press the advance button in hallway cupboard.
Yeah, yet another bloody hub in the technological cupboard of shame under the stairs.
-
Have Hive. Pretty happy with it. About 18 months after fitted, when the battery drained in 2 weeks I phoned them and they fixed it remotely for me. I remember thinking that their phone support was superb, but I've no idea why.
-
'home' has a Nest.
It also has a (functioning) dishwasher, a large fancy fridge, two freezers and more pots and pans than you can shake a stick at.
I'm living in a househare that doesn't even have radiators in all the rooms, the central heating goes off completely at 10:30, the fridge doesn't work (I have one shelf) and there is one decent pan (mine).
Remind me again why fuck I'm doing this?
-
I dunno. Is there a sexy robot?
-
It's worth noting that anyone who's feeling excited by the prospect of smart home heating should buy today when it's lots of money off.
Eg. link (https://smile.amazon.co.uk/apb/page/ref=gbps_tit_m-5_c477_db8a1e6b?handlerName=OctopusDealLandingStream&deals=db8a1e6b&marketplaceId=A1F83G8C2ARO7P&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_p=7094719a-eda0-4095-b003-9fd1477bc477&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-5&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=161428031&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=7A2K1EK7NBJG4K18YRSQ)
-
BG sent me a Hive leak sensor. What the hell, it was free, so I stuck on the pipe as instructed.
Don't bother. It's actually a highly efficient false alarm detector.
-
Sorry for the thread necromancy, but why not...
New Pingu Towers has a brand spanking new combi boiler (Dec 2020) but unfortunately they kept the ancient old programmer and thermostat (in the freaking hall, FFS). According to the installation guide which I was reading this morning (yes, I know, get a life) no weather compensation or anything modern of that ilk was installed (before anyone asks, Boiler Plus is not mandatory in Scotland).
Anyhoo, I have been making quite a lot of trips to the boiler to turn it up/down while the outdoor temperature is quite variable at the moment and I was thinking that being as the boiler is Opentherm compatible it might be a good idea to get a new controller which is either load or weather compensated, and will have the added benefit of not relying on that stupid hall thermostat too.
I don't think I need anything mega zonal fancy (as Ian says, cats) and I don't care about geofencing (Pingu does not use a smartphone). I'm also not that fussed about being able to control it with an app either, but it sounds like that's becoming more common. Don't think I have any particular problem with it being a learning stat as long as I still have the option to create the program myself if I don't approve...
(Although having said I don't need anything mega zonal fancy maybe with us both WFH on the first floor it might be an idea not to bother heating rads on the ground floor while we're upstairs, IDK, feel free to persuade me otherwise).
So 3 years on, what should I get?
-
(Although having said I don't need anything mega zonal fancy maybe with us both WFH on the first floor it might be an idea not to bother heating rads on the ground floor while we're upstairs, IDK, feel free to persuade me otherwise).
Actually that's probably a really stupid idea given that the thermostat will be on the ground floor (and no, I can't be arsed with the upheaval of getting a 2nd piped in zone).
-
I've got the Honeywell T6R left over from when Mum and Dad got a new boiler that came with Wooster Bosches latest offering for temperature compensation.
I've put it in the north facing bedroom cos that's where I sleep and the south facing rooms get quite toasty on a warm day and are OK with the way I've got it all set up if not a warm day.
Reasonably happy with it and the control is actually in the units not in the cloud so if the broadband disappears it still works, which i consider critical as it also means the only thing I'll lose if Honeywell go tits up is the app control.
-
We have the Hive thing, it's very nice to able to adjust the temperature on the fly. We could move the the device upstairs but everything has been adjusted so it works fine in the hall. Setting it to 19.5 in the morning and 20.5 in the evenings seems to keep the house appropriately toasty. The radiators upstairs are on thermostatic valves that are set very low, the heat collects upstairs and it's always warmer anyway (we must have good loft insulation). That said, it has to get very cold before the heating is on during the day. The house is as well insulated as a 1960s era detached can be (double glazed, loft insulation, cavity wall - that said, it does have those enormous picture windows, not the pokey modern prison windows).
-
We have the Hive thing, it's very nice to able to adjust the temperature on the fly. We could move the the device upstairs but everything has been adjusted so it works fine in the hall. Setting it to 19.5 in the morning and 20.5 in the evenings seems to keep the house appropriately toasty. The radiators upstairs are on thermostatic valves that are set very low, the heat collects upstairs and it's always warmer anyway (we must have good loft insulation). That said, it has to get very cold before the heating is on during the day. The house is as well insulated as a 1960s era detached can be (double glazed, loft insulation, cavity wall - that said, it does have those enormous picture windows, not the pokey modern prison windows).
Ditto here with Hive and similar temperature settings - mid-60s detached with loads of loft insurlation. A couple of the rooms have "timer valves" that in effect override the Hive heating controls [Example: one room is used for about an hour each day by my wife for yoga - the timer valve opens about 20 minutes ahead of the usual time and shuts off at the time she normally finishes - thus the room, if the main house thermostat is calling for heat, warms to about the same as the rest of the house just for that period. Door is kept closed when no in use. Works a treat.]
The other thing that's great with Hive is that you can control light bulbs and power plug/sockets - Examples: coffee machine (think Starbucks style but just 1 group!!) switches on at 0530 and off at 2030 to save electricity overnight, and the 2 PCs, printers and other peripherals all switch off on one socket from 2300 - 0630.
-
As a Google Fanboi, I'm into Nest for the last couple of years, with some interesting experiences.
Mrs Ham is a cold mortal, I am a hottie. This has always been a matter of gentle tension, it seemed to me that introducing thermosmarts and giving Mrs Ham Teh Power To Change on her phone might help.
Here's the deal: We do not experience comfort in relation to the indicated temperature. Your boiler will always be controlled from a measurement at a single spot or spots. The Nest AI smarts is awesome, it learns what you want. It learned that Mrs Ham is a cold mortal and started to turn the heating on at 3 in the morning so the house would be warm when she got up (that's a single example, there are others). So, given our uncomplicated lifestyle at the moment - we don't go nowhere - all smarts have been removed and it is being used as a dumb programmer. If you have an affinity for things technical it would likely work well for you, but chez Ham Hall, "It has a mind of its own". I have refrained from highlighting that is actually the USP.
What you can do, and something people mostly fail to, is to balance your heating. TRVs are all well and good, but because of the pipe layout it is usual for one or two rooms to be slowest to heat. If that is an issue, you can use the lockshield valve to turn down the flow on those that heat faster.
-
Ok, can you tell me how the learning is accomplished in the absence of geofencing?
-
Ok, can you tell me how the learning is accomplished in the absence of geofencing?
As I understand it, it relies on the app being installed on people's phones.
Say you have 4 people in a house and 2 have the app on their phone. Those two go out, the house cools down, the others go and turn the knob on Nest to put heating on again.
Nest 'learns' this as a pattern, and will automatically start firing the heating that that time of day.
Now, all 4 go out - Nest still fires the heating, even though the house is empty.
To work, it needs every house occupant to install the app. Nest will turn off heating (unless otherwise instructed) will turn down heating when all 4 phones are out of the house (off the wifi I think).
-
I appreciate that reliable occupancy detection is the holy grail of home automation, and most solutions are inadequate in some edge cases, but monitoring people's phones is so obviously doomed to failure that I'm amazed[1] they even bother.
[1] Not really, the software was probably written by the sort of people who are glued to their phone.
-
It also assumes that all occupants have a phone, hence my point about without geofencing.
-
Hmm ok, looks like I could just turn off auto-scheduling and use True Radiant to do what I want. https://support.google.com/googlenest/answer/9250165#zippy=%2Chow-true-radiant-works%2Ctrue-radiant-settings-and-opentherm-enabled-boilers
Probably a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut though.
-
Ok, can you tell me how the learning is accomplished in the absence of geofencing?
Geofencing is no part of it, unless you want it to be, and then AFAIK, you would probably use Android Rules to trigger - I'm not aware of any Nest Geofence capability. What the Nest does have is proximity sensor. It uses it to wakey up the unit when you get near, and to register when people are moving about. It combines that with AI smarts - eg, Mr google will work out when you are going to work - and set to away, if you let it. Also, if you are bought into the Google ecosystem (did I mention I was a fanboi?) you can tell Google assistant "Set heating to away" or "Turn heating off for next 14 days". (not a unique Google feature, part of Teh "Smart" stuffs)
At its simplest level, if you regularly turn heating up or down at a certain time it will learn and try to match, compensating for external temperature.