Pedestrian crossings

[Greenbank]

There is no law that stipulates you must stop if people are waiting to cross (and have not already begun to cross).

The law (ZPPPCRGD reg 25) only applies if they are on the carraigeway:-

"
Precedence of pedestrians over vehicles at Zebra crossings

     25.  - (1) Every pedestrian, if he is on the carriageway within the limits of a Zebra crossing, which is not for the time being controlled by a constable in uniform or traffic warden, before any part of a vehicle has entered those limits, shall have precedence within those limits over that vehicle and the driver of the vehicle shall accord such precedence to any such pedestrian.
"

In other words, whoever gets onto the crossing first has priority.

However, it is expected that you should stop to allow people to cross if they are waiting, and you should always expect them to walk out onto the crossing without looking (like most do anyway).

[red marley]

This renders your rant invalid in this situation, as it is not the cyclists filtering that is the problem, it is the lazy sods who can't be bothered to stop at the crossing.

I don't think I was 'ranting', so I will try to clarify.

I think we are all agreed that road users of any type that go through crossings when people are crossing is A Bad Thing.

I understood the previous posts to have established that the law about overtaking only applies to the final vehicle in a queue - the one that if overtaken, would involve crossing the crossing. Therefore the issue is not about 'filtering' with the other vehicles in the queue, which I have no issue with.

The problem as I see it is that the law about overtaking that last vehicle is there because visibility to your left or right is restricted if you are just behind or adjacent to a vehicle waiting at a crossing. Therefore while a cyclist (or car driver) may have no intention of running anyone over, they are frequently not in a safe position to assess whether there are any pedestrians currently crossing if also trying to overtake a vehicle at a crossing.

It seems like considerate and safe cycling always to stop at a crossing if there is already a stationary vehicle that is partially blocking the view of the crossing. I would have no problem if that behaviour was reinforced by law, just as it is for motor vehicles.

[Regulator]

This renders your rant invalid in this situation, as it is not the cyclists filtering that is the problem, it is the lazy sods who can't be bothered to stop at the crossing.

...

I understood the previous posts to have established that the law about overtaking only applies to the final vehicle in a queue - the one that if overtaken, would involve crossing the crossing. Therefore the issue is not about 'filtering' with the other vehicles in the queue, which I have no issue with.

...

But that is not what the law says.  The law says that a motor vehicle cannot overtake any vehicle which is stopped within the road markings for a crossing and which is nearer to the crossing.  It doesn't just relate to the vehicle nearest the crossing.  On some crossings the markings go back some distance - two or three or more vehicles length. 


I know from experience that it can sometimes be safer to filter or overtake at crossing queues and place yourself to the front of the queue - otherwise you seriously risk being 'squeezed' by motor vehicles.  From my experience, black cabs are amongst the vehicle most likely to try and 'bully' you if you are stopped towards the rear of a queue at a crossing in London.

[red marley]

OK - my mistake. I misinterpreted 'foremost part of vehicle' as 'foremost vehicle'.
In which case, we are probably in agreement

On edit: Ah, it looks like it does in fact apply to the foremost vehicle only (thanks for clarification Mr Khan). So sorry, it looks like we are not in agreement after all. Lordy-lord, this is confusing!


I have though, yet to experience car drivers considerate enough to leave a gap at the head of a (non-ASL) queue large enough to accommodate a cycle without sticking out into the crossing. My default behaviour at queues is to insert myself behind the first car. That way I can quickly assume primary position and clearly indicate that I am going to move as part of the general traffic flow.

[dkahn400]

But that is not what the law says.  The law says that a motor vehicle cannot overtake any vehicle which is stopped within the road markings for a crossing and which is nearer to the crossing.  It doesn't just relate to the vehicle nearest the crossing.   

Not according to the HC rule quoted by Chris N earlier in the thread.

"191

You MUST NOT park on a crossing or in the area covered by the zig-zag lines. You MUST NOT overtake the moving vehicle nearest the crossing or the vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to pedestrians.

[Laws ZPPPCRGD regs 18, 20 & 24, RTRA sect 25(5) & TSRGD regs 10, 27 & 28]"

[Greenbank]

Not according to the HC rule quoted by Chris N earlier in the thread.

"191

You MUST NOT park on a crossing or in the area covered by the zig-zag lines. You MUST NOT overtake the moving vehicle nearest the crossing or the vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to pedestrians.

[Laws ZPPPCRGD regs 18, 20 & 24, RTRA sect 25(5) & TSRGD regs 10, 27 & 28]"

The HC rule is not the actual law, and the law is worded slightly differently to say no overtaking of any vehicle within the controlled area leading up to the crossing...

Statutory Instrument
1997 No. 2400

"
24.  - (1) Whilst any motor vehicle (in this regulation called "the approaching vehicle") or any part of it is within the limits of a controlled area and is proceeding towards the crossing, the driver of the vehicle shall not cause it or any part of it -

      (a) to pass ahead of the foremost part of any other motor vehicle proceeding in the same direction; or

      (b) to pass ahead of the foremost part of a vehicle which is stationary for the purpose of complying with regulation 23, 25 or 26.
"

[Regulator]

But that is not what the law says.  The law says that a motor vehicle cannot overtake any vehicle which is stopped within the road markings for a crossing and which is nearer to the crossing.  It doesn't just relate to the vehicle nearest the crossing.   

Not according to the HC rule quoted by Chris N earlier in the thread.

"191

You MUST NOT park on a crossing or in the area covered by the zig-zag lines. You MUST NOT overtake the moving vehicle nearest the crossing or the vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to pedestrians.

[Laws ZPPPCRGD regs 18, 20 & 24, RTRA sect 25(5) & TSRGD regs 10, 27 & 28]"

The law says something slightly different from the Highway Code - and the Regulations trump the Code.  The law is slightly stricter for motor vehicles - a motor vehicle can't overtake any vehicle stopped within the markings of a crossing - so a car isn't legally allowed to push past you if you are stopped behind another vehicle at a crossing and inside the markings.

[dkahn400]

Thanks Greenbank and Regulator. I'm happy to have been corrected.