What wheels should I consider for loooong rides?

[border-rider]

They're perhaps just a bit...pointless.

You can save £12 and get some Chrinas, which are harder-wearing and less prone to cracking, or you can splash out on OPs.

There just doesn't seem to be a particular reason to buy Open Sports.

I must say that I'd not fancy building a wheel without double eyelets myself these days... 

[valkyrie]

What do you weigh?

If you go 36h at the back then your choices are limited to cheap or exotic.  Campag don't make a 36h hub

Yes they do (or did until very recently). I got a wheel built last summer with a Veloce 36 hole rear hub and there are several shops with 36-hole Record for sale on the web. I like the cheap (Mirage/Veloce) Campag hubs because they've got sealed cartridge bearings which I prefer.

[Biggsy]

Campag have discontinued 36h, but 2007 old stock 36h Record is still available.  I bet it won't be for long, though.  The cheaper Campag hubs are history as well

[MSeries]

MA2s are double eyeletted. Miles better than MA3s.

[Biggsy]

Have you tried Whiskers in Goffs Oak, Hertfordshire?
It has odd opening hours and not open every day. No on-line shop either.
Very good shop though. Very cheap and good for Campag stuff.

They could charge premium prices if they do have any old Campag hubs.  Much sought after now already.

Personally, I don't need any more hubs, except I wouldn't mind a spare rear.  I'm feeling the urge to stock up on spares for everything.  Not that I can afford to do so completely.

- - -
I like the shape and braking surface of the MA3 more than the MA2's, but it can't take really high spoke tension.  Discontinued anyway.  Open Sport should be OK if you go easy with the tension, but Rigida Chrina is cheaper.

[mrcharly-YHT]

All these threads are turning into Chrina love-ins.

I've ground down my hub bits, now it's 130mm OLN

[vorsprung]

I have the ambrosios and I cannot recommend them

What problems have you had?  I'm thinking of getting one as a spare.

I had a number of problems

1) I am crap at bike fettling so I had trouble taking the thing to bits.  You really need two 17mm cone spanners, which I didn't have.  The bearing on the non drive side uses an allen key in the end of the axle.  This took me a long time to figure out   There are no online manuals.  This hub isn't in any of my books

2) The design of the hub means that if you ride in the wet then water will get into the inside cassette carrier bearing,  The seals are ok but not great and there is a large void which seems to collect water.  Ianh recommended that I fill it with grease to prevent this

3) It seems overly difficult to change the two bearings in the cassette carrier.  Maybe it is normal for this kind of sealed bearing but you must
a) use a screwdriver to dislodge the outer bearing.  This usually comes out fairly easily once moving, unless rusted
b) remove circlip.  Another "special" tool I had to buy as well as a pair of cone spanners
c) more brute force on the inner bearing.  This is more difficult to remove and usually comes out in pieces
Once the bearings are out then do the same thing in reverse.  Some kind of socket set driver or socket wrench or bit of old seatpost to exactly the right diameter to catch the sealed bearings on the outer edge is needed or else they get damaged as you fit them....

4) the hub uses two sizes of bearing.  The smaller one is a 6901, I forget what the bigger one is.  Would be nicer if it just used one size

5) YMMV but I never saw any spare parts for these hubs, which is a pity because the pawl spring broke on the first one I had

I shouldn't be dissing this hub as I am trying to sell a pair (shimano body) in classifieds

[Biggsy]

Thanks Vorsprung.

I wouldn't mind the bearings being difficult to change if they last ages.  Do they?  Campag Mirage/Veloce bearings are difficult to the point of me regarding them as permanently fitted - but they last well in my experience (though not in Valkyrie's).

Pawl spring breaking is not good news, though.

Regarding spares, the hub is cheap enough to buy another whole one just for spare parts!

[Zoidburg]

Let me ask this as I really must ask.

I fished a pair of LX hub MTB wheels out of a skip, many thousands of miles old by the looks and they still ran smooth with no play, I commuted on those things for years.

Do you need to be taking a good labyrinthe sealed hub to bits so often?

I think not.

[Biggsy]

Yeahbut we talking about Campag and Campag-compatible hubs here.  What well-sealed cup-and-cone hubs are available for Campag now?  The Record seals are OK, but Record hubs cost Big Money.

[vorsprung]

Thanks Vorsprung.

I wouldn't mind the bearings being difficult to change if they last ages.  Do they?  

I rebuilt my rear wheel into a new zenith hub last summer.  2000km later in Febuary, I did a filthy audax and went through deepish water, not to hub height but some was going to splash up.  Knowing the hubs aren' t the most waterproof in the world I disassembled them two days later.
The non drive side bearing felt rough and so did the carrier inner bearing.  Most of the miles before that audax ( which was only 100 miles, half wet half dry ) were dry

Doesn't seem to me that the bearings last that long

Pawl spring breaking is not good news, though.

Regarding spares, the hub is cheap enough to buy another whole one just for spare parts!

The spring may have been effected by the water ingress and rusted slightly
Yes, they are as cheap as chips

[mrcharly-YHT]

Let me ask this as I really must ask.

I fished a pair of LX hub MTB wheels out of a skip, many thousands of miles old by the looks and they still ran smooth with no play, I commuted on those things for years.

Do you need to be taking a good labyrinthe sealed hub to bits so often?

I think not.

Zoid, there is a reason why I spent an hour grinding spacers on an old XT hub. 20k plus miles on it, never regreased and it is still smoother than my bloody tiagra hub that's on it's second freehub 

[alexb]

Good points on the Open Sports vs Chrina, the difference is that the last pair of Open Sports I bought cost me £28. I don't build wheels to high tension, because that's a short-cut to broken spokes.

I've never had any problems with cracked rims or failed eyelets, although I've seen a few over the years.

I have however worn out plenty of rims, especially cheap ones. At £14 for a rim, I regard that as better value than £20-odd for "high" quality brake blocks. Especially if by using cheap rims and cheap brake blocks I still get acceptable braking performance!

There's no way I would pay out for ceramic rims where you need to use special brake blocks. I can add a new rim to a wheel in an hour or so whilst watching the telly. If I can go to my local shop, collect the rim and walk home, I can literally go from a paper thin rim to a "new" wheel in less time than Wiggle could deliver a set of fancy brake blocks.

[Tewdric]

I don't build wheels to high tension, because that's a short-cut to broken spokes.

Precisely the opposite, in fact, but that's probably for another thread! 

[mrcharly-YHT]

I think that the point of using more expensive brake blocks is that they do a better job of stopping the bike.

But that's probably for another thread.

[vorsprung]

I don't build wheels to high tension, because that's a short-cut to broken spokes.

Precisely the opposite, in fact, but that's probably for another thread! 

I agree with Tewdric

[Chris N]

I can't figure out how looser spokes will lead to more spoke breakages, but can see how tighter spokes will build a stronger, more reliable wheel.
Adamski, if you want to have a go at building your own you'd be welcome to borrow my truing stand - I've got a couple to build soon so could take you through the process if you want.

[mrcharly-YHT]

I can't figure out how looser spokes will lead to more spoke breakages,

Flex in wheel structure, flex at the spoke/hub-flange, more stress on spoke elbow = break.

Thinking about it, from an engineering point of view, isn't the hub/spoke connection ridiculous?

[Chris N]

Yes and no. Putting all the load right next to a sharp bend seems a bit silly but it's a nice anti-rotate feature you don't get with straight spokes. If elbowed spokes weren't so ubiquitous they'd be a bad idea...

[Wothill]

Let me ask this as I really must ask.

I fished a pair of LX hub MTB wheels out of a skip, many thousands of miles old by the looks and they still ran smooth with no play, I commuted on those things for years.

Do you need to be taking a good labyrinthe sealed hub to bits so often?

I think not.

I have found Shimano hubs to be pretty indestructible too. They are cup and cone bearings, of course, in contrast to most others available these days. This may be down to Shimano having a very large forging facility for mass production of these bits while smaller-scale manufacturers mostly produce hubs by machining from billet. They then buy in appropriately sized bearings rather than form them from accurate shaping of the cups as part of the hub body. CNC machining sounds good but it seems to be a weaker approach metallurgically because the crystal structure doesn't get reformed in the best way as it does with forging. Only trouble with Shimano is that they weigh a lot more than some of the others.

Alf

[Polar Bear]

XT hubs:  Fit and forget. 

[giropaul]

XT hubs:  Fit and forget. 

But might prove a tad problematic with the OPs 10 speed Campag cassette.

[mattc]

XT hubs:  Fit and forget. 

But might prove a tad problematic with the OPs 10 speed Campag cassette.

Shimergo with 8sp! You know it makes sense.

[Polar Bear]

XT hubs:  Fit and forget. 

But might prove a tad problematic with the OPs 10 speed Campag cassette.

Other threads in The Knowledge have revealed manufacturers of cross-compatible cassettes.   Highpath for one I think...

[Greenbank]

XT hubs:  Fit and forget. 

But might prove a tad problematic with the OPs 10 speed Campag cassette.

Other threads in The Knowledge have revealed manufacturers of cross-compatible cassettes.   Highpath for one I think...

http://www.ambrosio.co.uk/ambrosio_cassettes.htm