Author Topic: Recommend me a Chef's knife  (Read 13581 times)

ElyDave

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Re: Recommend me a Chef's knife
« Reply #25 on: 12 July, 2017, 09:43:54 pm »
Sheer beauty https://www.niwaki.com/store/kitchen-knives/

That soba knife is awesome in the true sense of the word
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Eccentrica Gallumbits

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Re: Recommend me a Chef's knife
« Reply #26 on: 12 July, 2017, 09:46:15 pm »
When's his birthday?
My feminist marxist dialectic brings all the boys to the yard.


Re: Recommend me a Chef's knife
« Reply #27 on: 13 July, 2017, 12:18:39 am »
A DMT Diamond sharpening steel.
This is one time when spending money really makes a difference. My son had a cheap diamond sharpening steel - it was ok, wore smooth in a few months. Never really impressed me.
I bought him a DMT one.

Wow. Totally different beast. Fast at sharpening, it has lasted years.

https://www.bagoftools.co.uk/tools/c190/hand-tools/c2359/sharpening-tools/c2460/diamond-whetstones/c2633/diamond-steels/c3098/dmt-diamond-steel-300mm-green-1200-grit-extra-fine/p21183?showvat=true&gclid=Cj0KCQjwkZfLBRCzARIsAH3wMKohc55_A0zZFAoqrabTg6K299fcozqwc61bD9GTPIfEOyzhP7egUbMaAmvTEALw_wcB

I'm something of a sharpening geek, I have a powered wetstone for reshaping in the garage, 3 waterstones in the house and a leather strop with aluminium oxide powder. For a kitchen knife, the DMT is the dogs danglies.

What would you use for a small axe? I got mine reasonably sharp with a file, a lot of elbow grease, a slightly finer file and a aluminium oxide stone.
Depends on the intended use of the axe. For a carving axe, same treatment as a carving knife (waterstones). For general axes, shape with the waterwheel and finish with wet & dry on a mouse mat.
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Re: Recommend me a Chef's knife
« Reply #28 on: 14 July, 2017, 11:50:32 am »
When's his birthday?

The 20th of this month
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

Oscar's dad

  • aka Septimus Fitzwilliam Beauregard Partridge
Re: Recommend me a Chef's knife
« Reply #29 on: 14 July, 2017, 12:04:40 pm »
A butcher chum keeps his knives just this side of terrifying.  I asked him what brand he used: he laughed and said "whatever the reps are giving away".  His all have plastic handles.

We have a sandwich shop and although we only make sandwiches there's an awful lot of cutting that gets done, not just bread, and having uber sharp knives makes the job much easier and safer too.

We get plastic handled knives from THIS COMPANY, they pop in regularly to take away the old knives and deliver freshly sharpened ones.  I'm sure the knives themselves are nothing special but they are bloody sharp!

Re: Recommend me a Chef's knife
« Reply #30 on: 16 July, 2017, 01:53:27 pm »
I won't pretend to be an authority on knives, but here is my simplified opinion based on what I learned when investigating the subject; 
 
There are basically two types Chef's knives; the expensive ones made by forged steel, and the cheaper ones made by stamped steel. Each types comes in various grades of steel quality. 
The difference between forged and stamped isn't in sharpness, but in the ability of the forged blade to keep sharp for much longer periods. 
 
As a general rule, one should probably aim for a forged chef's knife and that is easily done within the allocated budget. 

Don't buy Japanese or Japanese style knife as a central chef's knife unless the recipient makes a lot of Asian food (they are unsurprisingly designed for that). Cheap stamped knives with plastic handles as used by professional butchers are great as supplemental knives used for meat only, but they dull easily and are not really good as chef's knives, since such knives are meant to chop vegetables etc. too.

Good brands that I have tried (and also own):
German "Giesser". Any forged Chef's knife from them would be a major upgrade.
German "Dick" :  Their "Premier Plus" line of forged blades is really superb, my personal choice of Chef's knife.
https://www.nisbets.co.uk/dick-premier-plus-chefs-knife-215mm/dl326 

There are of course other good brands like Wusthof etc. but I have no personal experience with them or have only tried stamped versions of their knives. 
 
--
Regards

Re: Recommend me a Chef's knife
« Reply #31 on: 16 July, 2017, 01:59:20 pm »
Japanese knives make excellent chefs knives. Of course, you need to choose the one to suit your style. No point buying a fish filtering knife if you intend to use it to chop beef.  My 8" Hattori veg chopping knife is fantastic. I could use it all day.

Re: Recommend me a Chef's knife
« Reply #32 on: 16 July, 2017, 03:37:45 pm »
Japanese knives make excellent chefs knives. Of course, you need to choose the one to suit your style. No point buying a fish filtering knife if you intend to use it to chop beef.  My 8" Hattori veg chopping knife is fantastic. I could use it all day.

While Japanese knives are great in their own right, I don't think I would recommend buying one as a chef's knife to someone who basically don't have any other quality knives and who doesn't make lot of Japanese food.
Being bevelled on one side only is great for cutting choice tuna or peeling daikon but feels awkward for general kitchen use.
Though many Japanese knives now are made with a western double edge, they also tend to made of extremely hard and brittle steel. That means they can be really, really sharp which is great for Asian cooking where thin slices of vegetables is used a lot, but also mean they chip and break easily and that they aren't good for thin bones and chopping, and that they require special ceramic sharpeners.
 
So IMHO, a Japanese knife even with double edges and as copy of a western chef's knife like the Santoku, aren't a good first choice for somebody who cooks western food mostly and that doesn't care for care knife maintenance and have bendy knifes like in the case of the OP's dad.

A forged German chef's knife will be a much better choice since it is much more sturdy and easier to maintain.
--
Regards

Ben T

Re: Recommend me a Chef's knife
« Reply #33 on: 16 July, 2017, 03:49:04 pm »
A butcher chum keeps his knives just this side of terrifying.  I asked him what brand he used: he laughed and said "whatever the reps are giving away".  His all have plastic handles.

We have a sandwich shop and although we only make sandwiches there's an awful lot of cutting that gets done, not just bread, and having uber sharp knives makes the job much easier and safer too.

We get plastic handled knives from THIS COMPANY, they pop in regularly to take away the old knives and deliver freshly sharpened ones.  I'm sure the knives themselves are nothing special but they are bloody sharp!

A sandwich shop I used to go to had unsliced bread but cut it with an electric meat carving knife. Height of laziness if you ask me.  :P

Re: Recommend me a Chef's knife
« Reply #34 on: 16 July, 2017, 09:28:19 pm »
This may be too late. Sorry, but I've only just spotted this thread.

I had a job a while ago checking the English of brochures for a couple of Japanese traditional knife makers & I almost drooled over their knives. One had a UK importer selling through its own shop & mail order. Not exactly cheap, but beautiful, in a totally functional way.

It's all on the computer Mrs B is currently working on, & she wouldn't take kindly to being thrown off, so I can't look for it now, but ASAP I'll pass it on - just in case it's not too late.

"A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Type-Writer Girl, 1897

Oscar's dad

  • aka Septimus Fitzwilliam Beauregard Partridge
Re: Recommend me a Chef's knife
« Reply #35 on: 17 July, 2017, 08:34:14 am »
A butcher chum keeps his knives just this side of terrifying.  I asked him what brand he used: he laughed and said "whatever the reps are giving away".  His all have plastic handles.

We have a sandwich shop and although we only make sandwiches there's an awful lot of cutting that gets done, not just bread, and having uber sharp knives makes the job much easier and safer too.

We get plastic handled knives from THIS COMPANY, they pop in regularly to take away the old knives and deliver freshly sharpened ones.  I'm sure the knives themselves are nothing special but they are bloody sharp!

A sandwich shop I used to go to had unsliced bread but cut it with an electric meat carving knife. Height of laziness if you ask me.  :P

We're even lazier, our bread comes in fresh each morning ready sliced from a local baker. 

Actually, its not laziness (going somewhat off topic now), there is a definite art to sandwich making (not an art I possess but that's fine as I don't work in the shop) and the bread, oddly enough, is crucial.  Bread that's too thick can ruin an otherwise perfectly good sandwich.

Mr Larrington

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Re: Recommend me a Chef's knife
« Reply #36 on: 17 July, 2017, 08:53:23 am »
I think Arthur Dent said the same thing in "Mostly Harmless" ;D
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ian

Re: Recommend me a Chef's knife
« Reply #37 on: 17 July, 2017, 09:36:58 am »
Thick sliced bread is an abomination. When I get to Hell, all the sandwiches will be made with thick stodgy bread and a desultory sliver of cheese, that some nefarious industrial process has pared down to a layer of constituent molecules. This will be my punishment. Oh wait, that's Tesco. It's an easy mistake to make.

Expense of blades to a point correlates with ability to keep an edge. To be honest, I give my cheap knife a five second workout with the sharpener and it'll chop and slice as well as the knife that was probably ten times the price, if not better. Of course, I have to do that every time. Mind you, I mostly only chop vegetable, I don't behead cows and stuff because officially an Odd Hobby.

Charlotte

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Re: Recommend me a Chef's knife
« Reply #38 on: 17 July, 2017, 12:54:46 pm »
So IMHO, a Japanese knife even with double edges and as copy of a western chef's knife like the Santoku, aren't a good first choice for somebody who cooks western food mostly and that doesn't care for care knife maintenance and have bendy knifes like in the case of the OP's dad.

A forged German chef's knife will be a much better choice since it is much more sturdy and easier to maintain.


I don't think you've ever used a decent Japanese knife.

Of course, there's no point trying to use a meat cleaver or boning knife to chop vegetables and likewise, you're going to bugger up your veg knife in short order if you try to dismember a dead thing with it, but generally speaking if you get the right knife for the job (meat/fish/veg) you're going to be at least as happy with a fine Japanese blade as you are anything else.

I like Japanese knives because I eat an almost exclusively plant-based diet and they make exceedingly quick work of veg prep in a way that pleases me hugely  :)
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Re: Recommend me a Chef's knife
« Reply #39 on: 17 July, 2017, 01:14:48 pm »
Thanks for the advice, everyone. I think I'll just go with the traditional present for now. Maybe I'll get the knife (or set of knives) as a present to myself (which my dad can of course still use) in a few months time....
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

Re: Recommend me a Chef's knife
« Reply #40 on: 17 July, 2017, 01:43:49 pm »
My own favourite, offered up for consideration, are the F Dick knives, I've been using them for 30+ years. Nisbets supply them, so you can get them next day (or collect) and they make a visually different version of the standard 8" knife which might be attractive to some, especially as a gift.

Most knives of a similar type and quality are of a piece, I don't know anyone who has bought a Wusthof, Henckels etc who is unhappy with them. As Flatus says, Japanese carbon steel is something else, as compared to forged German stainless. That something else is: harder thus capable of higher sharpness, less edge retention and as a result less suited, in my view, to those unused to handling and sharpening knives. They can also be things of true functional beauty which would be a crime to mistreat.

The F Dick alloy is a good combination of hard and sharpness retaining and, whilst they tell you not to, you can get away with putting in the dishwasher occasionally. Plus they have a funny name <snarf snarf>

Re: Recommend me a Chef's knife
« Reply #41 on: 17 July, 2017, 02:56:26 pm »

I don't think you've ever used a decent Japanese knife.

I do in fact own a couple of really good Japanese knives (with western double edge though) and have used many more. That is exactly why I wouldn't recommend them in the case of the OP. Don't get me wrong; I really like my Japanese knives, I just don't think they fit the OP's use case.

Of course, there's no point trying to use a meat cleaver or boning knife to chop vegetables and likewise, you're going to bugger up your veg knife in short order if you try to dismember a dead thing with it, but generally speaking if you get the right knife for the job (meat/fish/veg) you're going to be at least as happy with a fine Japanese blade as you are anything else.
 
 
But now you are already talking about a collection of knives. The OP's use case was one good knife, a chef's knife, which is usually understood as a all-round main knife that can be used for "everything". 

I like Japanese knives because I eat an almost exclusively plant-based diet and they make exceedingly quick work of veg prep in a way that pleases me hugely  :)

Yeah, but that was exactly my point; Japanese knives are designed for a Japanese food culture, that for historic reasons isn't centred around animal meat as much as western food culture is.  And when the Japanese buy meat, it tends to be in small, pre-sliced portions without bones.

That again means Japanese knifes don't work as well as all rounders as western chef's knives when dealing with western cuisine. I can use my German chef's knife as kind of mini-cleaver like by hammering it down with the palm of my left hand in order to cut a bone in two. I would never do that to my 63 HRC Santoku since it would risk it chipping it.   

I think it isn't surprising that a western chef's knife works better than the Japanese equivalent when it comes to western cuisine; even all-rounder knives are reflections of what they are used for.

I also think quality Japanese knives are somewhat fragile that chips easily. So you need to think about cutting boards, cutting techniques and honing techniques and honing/sharpening tools, and a proper way to store them too.   
Considering that most people tend to have their knives rattling around in a drawer, doesn't know how to either hone or sharpen their knifes and really don't care about sharpness either, they probably shouldn't get a Japanese knife.

As for people that care about knives and their maintenance, and already have a collection of expensive knives; well they probably already own a Japanese knife too these days.
--
Regards

Re: Recommend me a Chef's knife
« Reply #42 on: 17 July, 2017, 06:53:48 pm »
My two stay in their boxes whilst not used, and get cleaned and put away immediately. Most importantly, my wife is not allowed near them.

Re: Recommend me a Chef's knife
« Reply #43 on: 17 July, 2017, 07:16:41 pm »
Most importantly, my wife is not allowed near them.

I'm not surprised. I can imagine your wife wanting to shank you up bad on a regular basis  :P
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

rr

Re: Recommend me a Chef's knife
« Reply #44 on: 17 July, 2017, 07:24:40 pm »
Chelmsford Sainsbury's have some good deals on Sabatier style knives at the moment as they make space for Argos.

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redshift

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Re: Recommend me a Chef's knife
« Reply #45 on: 17 July, 2017, 07:28:16 pm »
Just another observation about Japanese knives: if you're left handed as I am, the single bevel is usually on the wrong side. Global don't seem to make left handed ones, and the companies that do charge an arm and a bollock for them.
L
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Re: Recommend me a Chef's knife
« Reply #46 on: 17 July, 2017, 07:41:15 pm »
What is this no-dishwasher shit? How in the holy fuck are you supposed to clean them? I put everything in the dishwasher from dirty cutlery to the cats.

Re: Recommend me a Chef's knife
« Reply #47 on: 17 July, 2017, 08:33:08 pm »
Most importantly, my wife is not allowed near them.

I'm not surprised. I can imagine your wife wanting to shank you up bad on a regular basis  :P

How wrong you are. I'm as surprised as you will be, but she actually quite likes me  ;D

Re: Recommend me a Chef's knife
« Reply #48 on: 18 July, 2017, 12:54:50 am »
Most importantly, my wife is not allowed near them.

I'm not surprised. I can imagine your wife wanting to shank you up bad on a regular basis  :P

How wrong you are. I'm as surprised as you will be, but she actually quite likes me  ;D

I can only assume you're as skilled with your..... Arggg... I won't go there  :P
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

Re: Recommend me a Chef's knife
« Reply #49 on: 30 October, 2017, 07:51:20 pm »
Having read through this thread, which is informative, but also slightly scary from a cost point-of-view, what do would people specifically suggest for general use, both as regards knives and sharpeners?

Much as spending several hundred pounds on both knives and sharpeners could clearly provide some lovely looking pieces of equipment, what are the more sensible "dutch roadster" type knives and sharpeners?

I've got a handful of knives already, but most are either very cheap and blunt, or slightly more expensive and on their way towards being blunt.

I'm thinking that a couple of general knives and some sort of medium and fine grinding stone, plus maybe a rod for more regular use?  Since I'm probably going to be useless at sharpening initially, cheaper knives are probably also a good idea. :)

Anyone care to make specific suggestions ? (preferably with links!)  I'm way out of my depth when I look at some of these sites, many many different knives, often well into 3 digit price ranges.  :o  I just want some knives for chopping up carrots, potatoes, inions, bacon, and the odd chunks of meat for a stew !

I do actually have a nice sharp bread knife, which I've managed to keep sharp by storing it on a magnetic rack, and only using it fairly occasionally.  That was bought more through random luck, than actual judgement. :)
Actually, it is rocket science.