Author Topic: [HAMR] New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1  (Read 164557 times)

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #675 on: 25 January, 2016, 03:47:59 pm »
Did Bruce actually say he is the guinness record holder? I've seen him say he beat the Guinness records, which is true, but have not seen him say he holds the Guinness record.

All I see is a guy riding huge miles daily with the intention of riding more than has ever been ridden before. Why so much hate towards the man. If he's happy to do so with the possibility neither Guinness nor umca will officiate it, so what? Why does it irk people so much. He still rode those miles.

I would of thought Bruce's style would appear to many. A man who simply gets on his bike and rides, no team, no camper van, no rules (potentially).
I was pretty sure Bruce had said (on fb) that he held the week and month record - but that post seems to have disappeared.  A little google found an interview where he claimed to have both records.

That was a lie. His claims hadn't been ratified by Guinness, nor had he actually exceeded miles achieved by other riders in events.

Bruce isn't exactly the lone guy who is riding. He rides with professional teams when they are out training.

I've done one Audax. If I hadn't had to keep stopping for proof-of-location/time receipts etc, it would have been easier.
The requirements for umca hamr are pretty low. Bruce just refuses to meet them. That's just petty.

Bruce has already shown himself to be willing to be willing to ignore facts and figures when making claims. If he wants to actually go for the 365 day record, he needs to meet the verification requirements from an outside body.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #676 on: 25 January, 2016, 04:20:32 pm »
in my view, Bruce is doing the ride in a way that i can relate to most, no support, self sufficiently. current rules by umca were drafted only by few people whereby everybody else has to adhere to them. for example, i strongly believe that a bicycle is an eco-friendly mode of transport and any race or record attempt should exclude any fossil fuel burning vehicles. now, would umca or guinness care about my opinion on doing things? do i have to respect the organisations that set the rules against my values?
at least i can choose my pov and give credit irrespective of other's opinions. :thumbsup:

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #677 on: 25 January, 2016, 04:26:34 pm »
for example, i strongly believe that a bicycle is an eco-friendly mode of transport and any race or record attempt should exclude any fossil fuel burning vehicles.
So how do you feel about flying from one side of the world to the other, solely to gain an advantage with weather conditions?
<i>Marmite slave</i>

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #678 on: 25 January, 2016, 04:37:17 pm »
for example, i strongly believe that a bicycle is an eco-friendly mode of transport and any race or record attempt should exclude any fossil fuel burning vehicles.
So how do you feel about flying from one side of the world to the other, solely to gain an advantage with weather conditions?

yes, i'm against that and would not allow it in my rulebook, but public transportation is lesser "evil" - the plane would be flying to/from oz anyway

my hierarchy is:
no support
support by public eco friendly transport (el.trains etc)
support by private eco friendly transport
support by public non eco transport
support by private non eco transport

red marley

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #679 on: 25 January, 2016, 04:51:04 pm »
in my view, Bruce is doing the ride in a way that i can relate to most, no support, self sufficiently. current rules by umca were drafted only by few people whereby everybody else has to adhere to them.

For a competition that is defined by comparison with others' performance, having rules that everyone has to adhere to seems pretty fundamental to me. I think Guinness are creating all sorts of problems by simultaneously creating a rather restrictive set of rules for some people (exclusively women as it happens) and also ratifying other records that have more relaxed rules and leaving the possibility open that they may ratify future claims with yet different rules. It's not helped by having at least one competitor who doesn't seem to be keen on following rules set down by others.

In my view, both Guinness and Bruce are (unintentionally) devaluing the efforts made by those who went to the effort of drafting, validating and complying with the year record process.

Aunt Maud

  • Le Flâneur.
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #680 on: 25 January, 2016, 05:00:58 pm »
in my view, Bruce is doing the ride in a way that i can relate to most, no support, self sufficiently. current rules by umca were drafted only by few people whereby everybody else has to adhere to them. for example, i strongly believe that a bicycle is an eco-friendly mode of transport and any race or record attempt should exclude any fossil fuel burning vehicles. now, would umca or guinness care about my opinion on doing things? do i have to respect the organisations that set the rules against my values?
at least i can choose my pov and give credit irrespective of other's opinions. :thumbsup:

I like your POV.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #681 on: 25 January, 2016, 05:06:58 pm »
A bicycle is only actually environmentally friendly when it replaces motorised transport for an essential journey, otherwise it is just an athletic leisure activity that requires more resources than walking or running. Cycle racing isn't eco-friendly.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...


zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #683 on: 25 January, 2016, 05:23:20 pm »
in my view, Bruce is doing the ride in a way that i can relate to most, no support, self sufficiently. current rules by umca were drafted only by few people whereby everybody else has to adhere to them.

For a competition that is defined by comparison with others' performance, having rules that everyone has to adhere to seems pretty fundamental to me. I think Guinness are creating all sorts of problems by simultaneously creating a rather restrictive set of rules for some people (exclusively women as it happens) and also ratifying other records that have more relaxed rules and leaving the possibility open that they may ratify future claims with yet different rules. It's not helped by having at least one competitor who doesn't seem to be keen on following rules set down by others.

In my view, both Guinness and Bruce are (unintentionally) devaluing the efforts made by those who went to the effort of drafting, validating and complying with the year record process.

hence my opinion if the validating bodies keep moving goalposts when they feel so, why can't a competitor amend the "rules" slightly especially as it doesn't make the challenge any easier.
has everyone forgot umca's rule of abstinence for the whole team? i have no doubt about the qualification and experience of people at umca or guinness (or any other similar organisation). however even the most reasonable people are not excepted from making unreasonable decisions.

Aunt Maud

  • Le Flâneur.
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #684 on: 25 January, 2016, 05:36:38 pm »
Some call it "refining the rules", others call it "making it up as you go along".

Allez Bruce.

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #685 on: 25 January, 2016, 05:50:00 pm »
There's a lot of snidey comments throughout the thread.

Hmmm... "snowandale" account registered three days ago, has only posted in this thread and is posting snidey comments. I smell a troll.
You're only as successful as your last 1200...

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #686 on: 25 January, 2016, 05:52:49 pm »
The rule of abstinence for the whole team was, I believe, written with RAAM in mind, where there are no breaks, driving is an integral part of the event, everyone is involved with the ride 24/7, and alcohol would be not just inappropriate but potentially illegal and dangerous. That rule was not appropriate for HAMR, so was set aside - quite rightly.

All event rules adapt with time and experience, and most events have different categories. There are already, in Guinness, categories of drafting and non-drafting cycling records. The basic criterion is that the attempt is recorded in a way that is able to be examined and ratified after the event, and that I suspect is where Bruce has fallen short in the past and will again.

Reading Citizenfish's "The Year" will show you several examples of rides which apparently broke the record standing at the time, but for which the records were inadequate and questionable and so they weren't ratified. Most of those rides took considerable research to find out about, whereas the ones that were ratified are in the history books and there to be seen. Bruce risks being one of the riders who misses out on being recorded by history, just for being lax with the paperwork. If so, more fool him.

red marley

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #687 on: 25 January, 2016, 05:53:53 pm »
hence my opinion if the validating bodies keep moving goalposts when they feel so, why can't a competitor amend the "rules" slightly especially as it doesn't make the challenge any easier.

If we have any influence at all (and let's face it, us armchair pundits have almost no influence), I'd rather see pressure on UMCA, Guinness etc. to apply their rules consistently and fairly than I would encourage competitors to shape the rules as they see fit.

I think some of the amendments made by Bruce wrt the Guinness rules definitely do make things easier for him, such as drafting in a peloton. Likewise, not dealing with live tracking also makes things easier for him compared to the other competitors. Allowing competitors to pick and choose is a recipe for chaos and a general muddying of the year record's status.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #688 on: 25 January, 2016, 06:27:57 pm »
that's the thing, there is no one to oversee their decisions and rules they create. i doubt, for example, that if a recumbent maker wasn't on umca's board, the recumbent and df bike would have ended up in the same category. it's a different topic altogether, but my point is that the rules are only as good as the people (with their own interests) who create them.

a proud member of auk 8)

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #689 on: 25 January, 2016, 07:07:53 pm »
If you're implying that all the volunteers at UMCA are just in it for self-interest (and/or financial/business reasons), i think you're almost certainly wrong.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #690 on: 25 January, 2016, 07:17:16 pm »
If you're implying that all the volunteers at UMCA are just in it for self-interest (and/or financial/business reasons), i think you're almost certainly wrong.

i'm not implying anything like that, just saying that the decisions depend on the individuals in the group; a different board would have created different rules.

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #691 on: 25 January, 2016, 07:20:20 pm »
I won't have any problem with Bruce being acclaimed as the record holder should he do more miles than Kurt. I won't mind if he doesn't get into the Guinness Book of Records.

I'll be doubly impressed if he does it without support. I'll be disappointed if he kowtows to any authorities to secure the sponsorship that might make his life easier. It's a record that demands a lot of suffering, and it will be all the more inspiring if he suffers alone.

I'm looking forward to see how he's done by the end of December.

Phil W

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #692 on: 25 January, 2016, 08:20:12 pm »
I'm beginning to think he's another Steve Coogan creation.

Youth Hostelling with Chris Eubank followed by Record Breaking with Bruce Berkeley

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #693 on: 25 January, 2016, 08:47:05 pm »
Quote
Road.cc have confirmed guinness are officiating Bruce's attempt, whether Bruce is ticking all the i's and crossing all the t's is absolutely irrelevant to anybody on this forum, as long you trust he is legitimately putting in the miles, what's it matter?

Really? All I can find is them saying:
Quote
We have spoken to Guinness World Records to seek confirmation that they are indeed certifying Berkeley’s record attempt with effect from 1 January 2016, and will update this story once we have their response. - See more at: http://road.cc/content/news/175956-bruce-berkeley-says-guinness-world-records-certifying-his-year-record-

Has there been an update or is this just a bit of Bruce inspired misinformation?

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #694 on: 25 January, 2016, 08:53:55 pm »
http://road.cc/content/news/176223-kurt-searvogel-awarded-guinness-world-record-distance-cycled-year

Quote
Berkeley set off on his attempt on 1 January this year, and Guinness World Records  confirmed to road.cc on Thursday that it will monitor his efforts.

A spokesman told us: “Guinness World Records can confirm that they have received a record application from Bruce Berkeley for the greatest distance cycled in a year.

“We wish him the best of luck throughout his record attempt and look forward to receiving his evidence so we can verify his evidence in the near future.”

and from the same link:-

Quote
One other issue remains to be clarified.

It had been reported here on road.cc and elsewhere that Berkeley already held Guinness World Records for the greatest distances cycled in a week and in a month.

That turns out to be incorrect and most likely results from road.cc and other sites picking uo on reports that the records had been broken at the time subject to certification by Guinness World Records.

So we asked them to clarify the current status of the week and month cycling records.

“They told us: “We have recently opened a record category for one week (minimum of 2,800 km to beat).”

 “The farthest distance cycled in one month is 6,455 km (4,010 miles) and was achieved by Janet Davison (UK) from 24 July to 22 August 2015.”
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #695 on: 25 January, 2016, 11:47:57 pm »
I’m totally confused now.

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #696 on: 26 January, 2016, 12:01:09 am »
I’m totally confused now.

In what way? As we suspected (rather, as we discovered by checking the website), Bruce does not hold any Guinness records, despite claiming two. Guinness have confirmed only that they will ratify his current ride subject to acceptable data being submitted. They are NOT monitoring Bruce's ride in real time.

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #697 on: 26 January, 2016, 12:12:12 am »
I think that YACF is essentially crowd-sourcing the reports. The Janet Davison story having originated from Hippy.
The interaction between ratifying bodies, the media and Strava is interesting, but at the heart I assume Bruce is still churning out the miles.

I also assume that he's happy to appear at the head of the Strava ratings. Does that satisfy his followers? That clearly counts for something. A bit of controversy will also help Road. CCs traffic count.

hillbilly

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #698 on: 26 January, 2016, 07:23:32 am »
It is telling that the discussion is no longer about "how far has he ridden today".

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #699 on: 26 January, 2016, 07:26:22 am »
Road.cc is becoming the Daily Mail of cycling sites!

I'm sure Bruce will carry on, and good luck to him. I hope he manages to collate his data in a way which will satisfy Guinness. He does in a way represent the Strava generation, in that if it doesn't appear there, it didn't happen (but much that didn't happen does appear there!).