[HAMR] New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1

[hillbilly]

If they can fake the moon landings, then they can sure as hell fake Strava tracks.

 

[crowriver]

Who's "Fake Doctor HAMR MyArse" ?

PMSL

Someone (possibly otp?) proving a point methinks and I suspect using Bruce's own tracks to do it.

Ummm... would someone be so kind as to enlighten me what on Earth you're both on about?

It is someone proving that you can fake things on strava.

Which is quite interesting. I wonder if road.cc et al will pick up on this? If they do, I wonder how many seconds it will take before that Strava account is suspended?

[DaveE128]

Oh that's hilarious!

However, I note that the rides are not public, so he/she isn't really showing how convincingly they can fake the rides. I also wonder whether they are simply downloading Bruce's rides, and re-uploading them? Maybe a little cropping to avoid taking the leaderboard top spot?

Still an interesting point.

Edit: I notice that the recent achievements shows Bruce's recent achievements so I'm pretty sure Bruce's rides are just being re-used.

[Exit Stage Left]

The idea of of being able to ride from your front door, keep going, and eventually hold the world record has a lot of appeal. But I'm beyond that phase of mid-life crisis, so it reminds of that line in W.O.L.D.

Sometimes I get this crazy dream
That I just take off in my car
When you can travel on ten thousand miles
And still stay where you are

 

[Bianchi Boy]

I mentioned in another thread that will be in na na land if Bruce is within about 1% of Kurt's total. The real problem that I see is that the distances are not confirmed. When I rode LEJOG plus back to Inverness and totalled about 1,700km with a friend all the way I rode 17km further. Well I did not but you get the point. So 76,076 miles is the target. What if Bruce records 76,800 miles. That is less than 1% over or the error rate commonly seen between riders on the same road doing the same ride. All records based on distance or time have a level of accuracy. What is the accuracy of a set of distances only recorded on Strava? What rounding, if any should we use?

Just a thought 

BB

[Wobbly]

Quite an interesting thought too, BB.

[wajcgac]

If you use a wheel sensor with a Garmin 500 to measure distance, rather than rely solely on the GPS, then set the wheel circumference to 10% greater than the actual wheel circumference and then upload the ride to Strava, you will find that Strava over reports your distance by 10%

This would be difficult to spot with Bruce's back and forth, twisty turns routes.

Another reason not to rely on Strava for the distance ridden.

This does not happen with Garmin Connect and RidewithGPS. I've checked Bruce's Garmin Connect pages and the distance is the same as that on Strava so he does currently have a correctly calibrated wheel sensor, if his Garmin is set to use it.

[TimC]

Here is an article where the week and month records are claimed, though not specifically as Guinness records. However there are - or were - several places on t'web that Bruce claimed his riding for both those 'records' was being ratified by Guinness. As we all know, neither has appeared in Guinness' records and a fair few people have demonstrably ridden further in both periods. Some much further.

If it wasn't for the fact that Guinness is again being invoked for the year record, it wouldn't really matter a jot. But Bruce would appear to have form in claiming that Guinness is overseeing his riding yet not producing a Guinness-ratified result. I don't think anyone doubts his week and month ride distances, but, without ratification, they are simply rides which are well down the league table of distance cyclists' achievements.

I note that on Strava he's been offered free GPS tracking, compatible with Trackleaders, by a British company. It will be interesting to learn of his response..

[Bianchi Boy]

If you use a wheel sensor with a Garmin 500 to measure distance, rather than rely solely on the GPS, then set the wheel circumference to 10% greater than the actual wheel circumference and then upload the ride to Strava, you will find that Strava over reports your distance by 10%

This would be difficult to spot with Bruce's back and forth, twisty turns routes.

Another reason not to rely on Strava for the distance ridden.

This does not happen with Garmin Connect and RidewithGPS. I've checked Bruce's Garmin Connect pages and the distance is the same as that on Strava so he does currently have a correctly calibrated wheel sensor, if his Garmin is set to use it.

Interesting, but I was not suggesting that there was an attempt to deceive in any way, just that there is a natural variation in the distance measured. From a very unscientific observation this appears to be about 1% and the eTrex is longer than the Edge 500. If Bruce is using a wheel sensor - which he does not appear to be doing then I hope he is better at measuring wheel circumference than I am.

BB

[Clemo]

224 miles yesterday 

[LMT]

That's good going, worth noting a NP of 178w would be a recovery ride for Bruce as well. That's assuming his FTP is around the 330w mark.

[Greenbank]

If you use a wheel sensor with a Garmin 500 to measure distance, rather than rely solely on the GPS, then set the wheel circumference to 10% greater than the actual wheel circumference and then upload the ride to Strava, you will find that Strava over reports your distance by 10%

This would be difficult to spot with Bruce's back and forth, twisty turns routes.

Another reason not to rely on Strava for the distance ridden.

This does not happen with Garmin Connect and RidewithGPS. I've checked Bruce's Garmin Connect pages and the distance is the same as that on Strava so he does currently have a correctly calibrated wheel sensor, if his Garmin is set to use it.

Interesting, but I was not suggesting that there was an attempt to deceive in any way, just that there is a natural variation in the distance measured. From a very unscientific observation this appears to be about 1% and the eTrex is longer than the Edge 500. If Bruce is using a wheel sensor - which he does not appear to be doing then I hope he is better at measuring wheel circumference than I am.

BB

Strava trusts the "DistanceMeters" attribute in a GPX/TCX file[1] implicitly, rather than working from the distance between the trackpoints (which Garmin Connect and others do). That makes Strava easy to fool with things like incorrect wheel circumference.

One of the jobs of a validation authority (UMCA, Guinness, etc) will be to work from the raw fit/tcx/gpx files and not trust one particular interpretation of them (i.e. Strava's).

1. Not sure what the corresponding thing is in a .fit file, only recently started writing some utils to pick apart .fit files.

[Aunt Maud]

.fit are easy to change and fiddle with and will produce a convincing forged .gpx track, as for the power output, I'm not sure, as I never use any of that.

I'm not going into any more detail than that, as it opens the door to those who can't get over it and wish to snipe.

But until someone proves that Bruce is doing so, this is all hot air and handbags a dawn.

[wilkyboy]

If you use a wheel sensor with a Garmin 500 to measure distance, rather than rely solely on the GPS, then set the wheel circumference to 10% greater than the actual wheel circumference and then upload the ride to Strava, you will find that Strava over reports your distance by 10%

I don't know what he's using, but Garmin dropped the option to set wheel size manually on the Edge 1000 (or at least I've not found it).  It's set automagically from GPS data.  What happens when you use it on a turbo I've no idea, but in theory it will think your wheel's tiny!

What I can tell you is that if you use the wheel sensor and the battery goes flat mid-ride then you lose speed and distance, even though you're still tracking on the map.

[Aidan]

If you use a wheel sensor with a Garmin 500 to measure distance, rather than rely solely on the GPS, then set the wheel circumference to 10% greater than the actual wheel circumference and then upload the ride to Strava, you will find that Strava over reports your distance by 10%

I don't know what he's using, but Garmin dropped the option to set wheel size manually on the Edge 1000 (or at least I've not found it).  It's set automagically from GPS data.  What happens when you use it on a turbo I've no idea, but in theory it will think your wheel's tiny!

What I can tell you is that if you use the wheel sensor and the battery goes flat mid-ride then you lose speed and distance, even though you're still tracking on the map.

It is possible to set the wheel size manually on a 1000.  its in the menu for the wheel sensor when the head unit is connected to the sensor.  Not surprised you haven't found it actually!   And it has found the size of the wheel on my turbo bike accurately.

[simonp]

Any significant discrepancy between wheel sensor and track length would show up, though. It's not as if you can't check this.

Really the only way to fake this is to generate and/or splice tracks. Sticking to similar routes each day would make that much easier.

[Justin(e)]

The continued debate on this thread is over cheating.  It does not belong here. I think that it is hugely disrespectful to Bruce.

If you have some evidence that he is falsifying his data, then fair enough.  But the only "evidence" available is that he did not buy one particular brand of tracker.  AIUI, he is being tracked, he is logging his data, and there is nary a hint of impropriety.  ENOUGH!!

[mrcharly-YHT]

I don't believe Bruce is cheating, or will cheat. For Bruce, being who he is, it would be easier for him to ride the miles than to falsify the evidence.

I do believe that one method of recording isn't enough - just because of errors that can creep into the system. I also think that Bruce is a fool not to get his attempt validated by UMCA.

[hillbilly]

Erm.

It's about the verifiability of a ride if done outside of a regulated body, and what this means for the validity of a record attempt.  Which is very relevant to Bruce's attempt. 

I don't think anyone has suggested Bruce either has or intends to cheat. 

[Auntie Helen]

Yes, I agree with MrCharly. I don't think Bruce is cheating at all, but in five years time when someone questions his record it will be hard to provide solid proof if he doesn't jump through the hoops that the various accreditation organisations require (for a reason)

[Greenbank]

The continued debate on this thread is over cheating.  It does not belong here. I think that it is hugely disrespectful to Bruce.

I asked [the moderators] for the thread to be split a while back but nothing happened. It'd be quite a job to split the thread in two now, but still possible, but the "Strava isn't a great standard of proof" and "why Strava isn't a great standard of proof" discussions are too intertwined now.

I have no doubts that Bruce is out there riding every single mile he is uploading to Strava. But convincing the majority of people he is/has at a later date is another matter.

[Snowandale]

The continued debate on this thread is over cheating.  It does not belong here. I think that it is hugely disrespectful to Bruce.

I asked [the moderators] for the thread to be split a while back but nothing happened. It'd be quite a job to split the thread in two now, but still possible, but the "Strava isn't a great standard of proof" and "why Strava isn't a great standard of proof" discussions are too intertwined now.

I have no doubts that Bruce is out there riding every single mile he is uploading to Strava. But convincing the majority of people he is/has at a later date is another matter.

Who are the majority of people? You may notice that for all Kurt, Steve, and bruce, on all their social media pages the highest following is on strava. If the strava users are convinced, the majority is already convinced.

These record attempts have hardly set the world a light with publicity. I don't think he needs to convince anyone other than the small section of cyclists who seem to be interested. And in this day and age, his strava rides will be enough.

In 10, 20 years time, I'm sure strava will still be around.

[crowriver]

In 10, 20 years time, I'm sure strava will still be around.

Yeah.

Just like Atari, Aldus, Ericsson, Blackberry, MySpace, and Geocities. All thriving.

[IanDG]

Steve, Kurt - (edit: I thought) their distance was taken from what was uploaded to Strava - the only difference was carrying a logger.

[Snowandale]

In 10, 20 years time, I'm sure strava will still be around.

Yeah.

Just like Atari, Aldus, Ericsson, Blackberry, MySpace, and Geocities. All thriving.

Not sure how naming those companies is in any way relevant. Even if strava is not around, another sharing your activity based on gps website will be. I think Bruce using a gsrmin and uploading his rides online will be enough to convince people for the forseable future. Perhaps in 100 years people will look back and say well that method was wildly innacurate we can't trust those details, but we will never know.