Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Freewheeling => Topic started by: zigzag on 01 February, 2017, 05:11:25 pm

Title: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: zigzag on 01 February, 2017, 05:11:25 pm
i'd like some low profile mudguard reflectors, mainly as they look neater and snag less while still being effective at reflecting light. any idea where i could get ones (like the sks ones in the picture) without buying the whole set of 'guards?

(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/fuAAAOSw241Yhisu/s-l1600.jpg)
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 01 February, 2017, 06:14:51 pm
Reflective tape is lighter
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: Ian H on 01 February, 2017, 06:32:55 pm
Googling "cycle mudguard reflector" brought up useful stuff, including...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-BICYCLE-REAR-MUDGUARD-ROUND-REFLECTOR-/221307986206
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: Biggsy on 01 February, 2017, 07:15:01 pm
Reflective tape is lighter

and potentially reflects more light in total - although mudguards aren't quite flat enough for the most brilliant tape, unfortunatenly, like 3M Diamond Grade that's rather stiff.
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 01 February, 2017, 07:17:16 pm
Stiff reflective tape works very nicely on mudflaps.
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: Kim on 01 February, 2017, 07:28:14 pm
Reflective tape is lighter

My thoughts exactly.  Though it isn't a legal substitute for the BS marked reflector, if you care about such things.
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 01 February, 2017, 07:29:47 pm
How many folks here use BS-marked front and rear lights?
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: Kim on 01 February, 2017, 07:44:50 pm
Probably just the Brompton owners.  Though I've definitely got a couple of BS reflectors on the fleet (courtesy of SKS).

K-marks, of course, are a little more prolific.

Personally, while being compliant does no harm, I reckon the spirit is more important than the letter of the law, and a nice strip of red Scotchlite would be simple and robust.
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: Biggsy on 01 February, 2017, 07:56:20 pm
I even made mudflaps entirely out of stiff reflective tape - not one of my most durable creations!  Of course sticking the tape on sexisting flaps is the way to do it.
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: zigzag on 02 February, 2017, 10:58:47 am
reflective tape works well on flat surfaces, but mudguards are curved in both directions, so unless the tape is stretchy it wouldn't stick neatly. proper reflectors are more visible and durable too. another brand that makes low profile reflectors is vavert, again, not sold separately

(http://www.laxzo.com/ekmps/shops/jsphshi/images/vavert-35mm-fixed-mudguard-rear-reflector-road-racing-bike-cycle-bicycle-14352-p.jpg)
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: Jurek on 02 February, 2017, 11:12:56 am
I have red reflective self adhesive vinyl, if you'd like some.
It is vehicle wrap, so stretches in each direction.
There was some on the end of the mdgrd on my Pompino - until that snapped off  >:(
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 02 February, 2017, 11:23:34 am
I don't even have a reflector on the Surly, just a strip of reflective-fluorescent tape that's part of the Carradice. But I have thought about attaching a reflector on to the mudguards. Just haven't got around to doing it yet...

I even made mudflaps entirely out of stiff reflective tape - not one of my most durable creations!  Of course sticking the tape on sexisting flaps is the way to do it.
Is this some kind of kinky bondage you're into?  :D
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: SA_SA_SA_SA on 02 February, 2017, 12:04:50 pm
You could fit an old (cheap/free) lightweight filament dynamo combined mudguard lamp for its  approved reflector:
which even if (unused) lamp part  is not legal as your SOLE* UK rear lamp, according to Chris Juden, reflectors are more standardised so it  will probably have BS6102/2 (/3 is for lamps) or an EI or EIA mark or a or a K mark( note there are separate K numbers for reflector and lamp so a combined unit should have 2 K numbers) .

https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?t=81117&start=135#p742896 (https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?t=81117&start=135#p742896)

The trouble with saying only the spirit of the law matters is   when a negligent driver hits you, and their insurance company is pleased because they can then accuse you of contributary negligence due to the lack of following the letter of the law and can reduce/avoid payout ....  Have heard of this with a rear lamp..
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 02 February, 2017, 12:23:38 pm
I think it's quite easy to find BS-marked reflectors. Much easier than lights (and arguably more useful, in that the reflectors work identically to those without BS markings whereas BS marked lights tend to be not so good, and in that most bikes come with the reflectors fitted when new).

I wonder how cyclists manage to be legally compliant in countries lower down the cycling marketing rankings than UK.
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: Kim on 02 February, 2017, 01:19:31 pm
The trouble with saying only the spirit of the law matters is   when a negligent driver hits you, and their insurance company is pleased because they can then accuse you of contributary negligence due to the lack of following the letter of the law and can reduce/avoid payout ....  Have heard of this with a rear lamp..

Well yes, but you're already stuffed by the pedal reflector rule if you use most clipless pedals, recumbent cycles, panniers, etc.
Title: Biggsy
Post by: Biggsy on 02 February, 2017, 02:54:43 pm
reflective tape works well on flat surfaces, but mudguards are curved in both directions, so unless the tape is stretchy it wouldn't stick neatly.

Thin tape/sheet is often just about stretchy enough to make it work, albeit with the odd small crease at the edges in some cases.  Mine doesn't look 100% neat close up, but stays stuck down perfectly well.  It helps not to cover the whole width.

As for being visible, reflective tape can be *more* visible than a "proper" reflector even when it's less reflective per square inch, simply by covering a many more square inches.  The effectiveness of commonly available products, IMO, ranges from adequate to amazing.

I even made mudflaps entirely out of stiff reflective tape - not one of my most durable creations!  Of course sticking the tape on sexisting flaps is the way to do it.
Is this some kind of kinky bondage you're into?  :D

Sorry*.  Of course I would never mean to recommend sexting one's flaps.

* Not really.  I noticed the typo before posting but posted anyway.  :demon:
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: Kim on 02 February, 2017, 03:00:27 pm
As for being visible, reflective tape can be *more* visible than a "proper" reflector even when it's less reflective per square inch, simply by covering a many more square inches.  The effectiveness of commonly available products, IMO, ranges from adequate to amazing.

IME Scotchlite reflects better than the corner cube plastic reflectors in pretty much all real-world circumstances, as it's much less fussy about angles.
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 02 February, 2017, 03:09:29 pm
I was surprised to discover empirically (late night campsite loo wanderings with head torch) that the red reflector built into a B&M rear light reflects brighter than the white stuff printed onto Carradice panniers. I'm not sure where Carradice get their reflectives from, but they do look printed on. The stitched on tape they use on the Super C saddlebag looks significantly brighter than what they use on panniers and other saddlebags.
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: SA_SA_SA_SA on 02 February, 2017, 03:26:21 pm
...Well yes, but you're already stuffed by the pedal reflector rule if you use most clipless pedals, recumbent cycles, panniers, etc.
In a Cycle(CTC era) Q&A page Chris Juden's opinion was as long as your pedal reflectors were visible at some point in their arc(eg briefly visible below panniers) you should be OK cos the amber flashing would be visible:

but recumbent-ists will just have to wait for the law to be updated...(perhaps due to the red tape challenge:)
(ie hope for option D of TRL report PPR711)

some (usually shimano) clipless pedals can take pedal reflectors (covered on CTC/C-UK forum).
https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=92645&start=510#p907291 (https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=92645&start=510#p907291)
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 02 February, 2017, 03:27:22 pm
The red reflective tape challenge?  :D
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: zigzag on 02 February, 2017, 03:50:50 pm
thank you for the suggestions; unless it is done professionally reflective tape looks like a bodge. e.g. a few neatly cut and applied chevrons would look alright imo, while a piece of tape with creases not so much. as said in my original post i'd like a reflector, that is flush with the mudguard and follows it's shape.
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: alexb on 02 February, 2017, 04:44:31 pm
Reflective tape is lighter

and potentially reflects more light in total - although mudguards aren't quite flat enough for the most brilliant tape, unfortunatenly, like 3M Diamond Grade that's rather stiff.

You may find that heating it up with a hair dryer will make it flexible enough to stick onto a compound curve.
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: Kim on 02 February, 2017, 05:02:53 pm
Reflective tape is lighter

and potentially reflects more light in total - although mudguards aren't quite flat enough for the most brilliant tape, unfortunatenly, like 3M Diamond Grade that's rather stiff.

You may find that heating it up with a hair dryer will make it flexible enough to stick onto a compound curve.

Also, putting a *little* bit of stretch in it, as you would with electrical tape, and starting in the centre and working outwards.
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: Biggsy on 02 February, 2017, 05:29:50 pm
The heat tip is good for adhesive tape/sheet in general, but Diamond Grade is still too stiff for mudguards, IME, especially when it cools back down.  I don't think it stretches at all.
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 02 February, 2017, 06:36:59 pm
What about the stuff made for lorries? Sticks on curtain siders so must have a bit of flex in it.
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: Kim on 02 February, 2017, 06:38:25 pm
What about the stuff made for lorries? Sticks on curtain siders so must have a bit of flex in it.

The non-diamond-grade stuff is fine.  I have it on all sorts of curved surfaces on my bikes (eg. cranks).
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 02 February, 2017, 06:44:05 pm
Although it seems that diamond grade often is what's used for ECE104.
http://www.vikingtapes.co.uk/c-451-reflective-tape.aspx#.WJN9p44jHIU
Of course lots of lorries have flat, rigid sides.
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: SA_SA_SA_SA on 08 February, 2017, 10:10:42 pm
Proper approved reflectors aren't exactly heavy: why take the risk of legal problems? You can fit both red tape and an approved reflector.....
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: Greenbank on 08 February, 2017, 10:50:38 pm
Proper approved reflectors aren't exactly heavy: why take the risk of legal problems? You can fit both red tape and an approved reflector.....

Indeed, that's what I have on my commuting bike. Approved reflectors, BS (or EU equivalent) lights (backed up by others that aren't an official standard), and other reflectives.

(Yes, even pedal reflectors - Shimano PD-T400 Click'r pedals - double sided SPD and built in reflectors, not easily snappable click in ones which make the pedals single sided.)
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: Biggsy on 09 February, 2017, 02:56:02 pm
Proper approved reflectors aren't exactly heavy: why take the risk of legal problems?

Proper reflectors for clipless pedals can spoil the experience or limit choice, as can approved lights, and when I'm already illegal because of those things then I perceive any additional risk from lack of an approved rear reflector to be almost zero, so I don't bother to find and fit a suitable one.

Just answering the question, not encouraging anyone else to go without proper reflectors.
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: jsabine on 09 February, 2017, 03:06:31 pm
Is there a forum-recommended supplier of small quantities of reflective tape, or is it (as ever) just a question of picking from ebay?
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: cygnet on 09 February, 2017, 03:07:59 pm
Edited to add; below is in reply to zigzag, not jsabine's question

Do the reflectors work if rotated 90 degrees?

If so something like this?
https://www.rydestore.com/ryde-eclipse-oblong-motorcycle-safety-reflectors-red.html?gclid=CJnJuMajg9ICFWa77QodZ7sEFA (https://www.rydestore.com/ryde-eclipse-oblong-motorcycle-safety-reflectors-red.html?gclid=CJnJuMajg9ICFWa77QodZ7sEFA)
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: Biggsy on 09 February, 2017, 03:35:45 pm
Is there a forum-recommended supplier of small quantities of reflective tape, or is it (as ever) just a question of picking from ebay?

eBay was cheapest for cycle-related quantities last time I looked (accounting for postage as well).  Hopefully those who have bought recently will recommend particular items and sellers.  Quality (reflectivity) of unbranded products is very variable but can be what you want for thin and flexible stuff.  Stick to 3M Diamond Grade for applications where it can be stiff.
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: dim on 09 February, 2017, 08:07:56 pm
Velo Orange:
https://www.veloduo.co.uk/products/velo-orange-grand-cru-polished-alloy-mudguard-reflector (https://www.veloduo.co.uk/products/velo-orange-grand-cru-polished-alloy-mudguard-reflector)

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0744/6897/products/1_1e45cfc6-d0fd-4100-acca-ab7e1a2be7c7_medium.jpeg?v=1421136755)
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: zigzag on 09 February, 2017, 11:34:20 pm
Edited to add; below is in reply to zigzag, not jsabine's question

Do the reflectors work if rotated 90 degrees?

If so something like this?
https://www.rydestore.com/ryde-eclipse-oblong-motorcycle-safety-reflectors-red.html?gclid=CJnJuMajg9ICFWa77QodZ7sEFA (https://www.rydestore.com/ryde-eclipse-oblong-motorcycle-safety-reflectors-red.html?gclid=CJnJuMajg9ICFWa77QodZ7sEFA)

thank you, but it would still sit away from the mudguard, as the mudguard is curved and the reflector is flat.

the ideal reflector would be of a similar shape, only curved to match mudguard's shape, with the optics inside oriented horizontally back, when the reflector is attached between 10 and 11 o'clock, if that makes sense.

Velo Orange:
https://www.veloduo.co.uk/products/velo-orange-grand-cru-polished-alloy-mudguard-reflector (https://www.veloduo.co.uk/products/velo-orange-grand-cru-polished-alloy-mudguard-reflector)

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0744/6897/products/1_1e45cfc6-d0fd-4100-acca-ab7e1a2be7c7_medium.jpeg?v=1421136755)

thank you, i've already got similar ones, and it's not what i'm after
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: aeolus on 10 February, 2017, 12:23:33 am
SJS have these

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/lighting/jos-mudguard-fitting-rear-light-reflector/

Any nearer what you are looking for ?
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: zigzag on 11 February, 2017, 12:59:50 pm
SJS have these

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/lighting/jos-mudguard-fitting-rear-light-reflector/

Any nearer what you are looking for ?
nope, nowhere near :)
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: Polar Bear on 11 February, 2017, 01:34:19 pm
We have applied some of the red reflective stuff that somebody here on the forum was selling a while back.  Bumper if I recall correctly?

Well, it is not very effective imo, certainly far less reflective at the patches on Ortlieb panniers, nor as good as the B&M reflectors built into their lights, nor as good as the reflectors built into Philips rear lights.

Every little helps but sometimes something just doesn't quite cut it.
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 11 February, 2017, 08:30:30 pm
Edited to add; below is in reply to zigzag, not jsabine's question

Do the reflectors work if rotated 90 degrees?

If so something like this?
https://www.rydestore.com/ryde-eclipse-oblong-motorcycle-safety-reflectors-red.html?gclid=CJnJuMajg9ICFWa77QodZ7sEFA (https://www.rydestore.com/ryde-eclipse-oblong-motorcycle-safety-reflectors-red.html?gclid=CJnJuMajg9ICFWa77QodZ7sEFA)
Probably not so well. They're usually tilted slightly to left and right, so if you rotate them 90 degrees they would no longer be vertical.
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: jsabine on 12 February, 2017, 12:07:06 am
Is there a forum-recommended supplier of small quantities of reflective tape, or is it (as ever) just a question of picking from ebay?

eBay was cheapest for cycle-related quantities last time I looked (accounting for postage as well).  Hopefully those who have bought recently will recommend particular items and sellers.  Quality (reflectivity) of unbranded products is very variable but can be what you want for thin and flexible stuff.  Stick to 3M Diamond Grade for applications where it can be stiff.

How stiff is Diamond Grade? Comparable to cereal box, removals box, stiff plastic? I get the impression from other posts it would be good to stiffen up otherwise flexy mudflap material - is that right?
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: Biggsy on 12 February, 2017, 07:58:56 pm
*has a feel of some DG*

Oh, it's more flexible than I was remembering - cereal-packet-like - but still it would add a little stiffness to a mudflap.  It may help to use 55mm rather than strips of 25mm.
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 12 February, 2017, 11:17:40 pm
I discovered yesterday that you can get retroreflective paints, made using microscopic glass beads, eg: http://www.glowtec.co.uk/reflective-paint-info.htm. I think that's the same principle as Scotchlight. What's more, it seems you can even get powder coating. So if you want, you can have your whole frame reflective, for a price. That would certainly give you night time visibility, though of course it wouldn't satisfy any regulations (at least not in the UK).
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: jsabine on 14 February, 2017, 01:29:37 pm
*has a feel of some DG*

Oh, it's more flexible than I was remembering - cereal-packet-like - but still it would add a little stiffness to a mudflap.  It may help to use 55mm rather than strips of 25mm.

That sounds about right for what I want - thanks.

Having got some of Jurek's thin'n'flexy stuff this morning (thanks, Jurek!), I shall have a gander on ebay.
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: zigzag on 06 March, 2017, 11:52:52 am
in the end i bought a set of mudguards (which i don't need) for a reflector. if anyone sees cateye rr-c1 sold individually, let me know as i need few more.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170306/68e046254c36a29ccf60c1edf7280938.jpg)
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: andrew_s on 10 March, 2017, 02:05:34 pm
Rigid plastic reflectors like that need to be fitted facing straight back - i.e. the face close to vertical.

The retro reflection falls off quite quickly once the angle between the light and the face gets further than about 15 degrees from square on. That's why there are 3 faces; to cover a wider horizontal angle.
Title: Re: Low Profile Mudguard Reflectors
Post by: zigzag on 10 March, 2017, 02:26:58 pm
the trick with this particular model is that it's designed to be mounted at 10 o'clock position while reflecting horizontally back - which is what i was after. the only way i would improve it (to suit my needs) is to make it narrower, i.e. get rid of the sides, and increase/extend the central part to about 2x12cm, so that it covers 10->11 o'clock section. the optics should obviously be oriented backwards along the whole curve. the above/below is the best i could find on the market so far..

(http://202.215.251.86/images/product/any/rr_c1_zu.jpg)