Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => Topic started by: cpjmathieson on 09 October, 2010, 07:52:25 pm
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Does anyone know where I can get a pair of 26" MTB studded tyres cheap ? I need a pair for my cheap old MTB so I can still commute to work through even the worst weather the winter has in store...cheers :thumbsup:
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I have been in correspondence with DotBike (http://www.DotBike.com) on this matter, and they are trying to import the Schwalbe winter ones, they have more expensive ones in stock.
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Does anyone know where I can get a pair of 26" MTB studded tyres cheap ? I need a pair for my cheap old MTB so I can still commute to work through even the worst weather the winter has in store...cheers :thumbsup:
DIY Studded tyres (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=28222.0)
More than you ever wanted to know.
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I have been in correspondence with DotBike (http://www.DotBike.com) on this matter, and they are trying to import the Schwalbe winter ones, they have more expensive ones in stock.
I've ordered a pair with my local bikeshop this week.
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I made some, too. (http://bicycleslut.wordpress.com/2010/01/10/diy-studded-bicycle-ice-tyres/)
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Cheap studded tires tend to shed their studs after being ridden for a while, making them somewhat penny wise and pound foolish. Nokians, OTOH, seem to last forever. The construction and attachment of the studs are identical to studded tires used on motor vehicles, so they will just about last the life of the tire. I've found the Hakkapeliita W106 to be an excellent winter commuter tire. I did find it necessary to line the tire/tube interface with duct tape after a few years, although I'm not sure if that was the fault of the tires, the tubes or my habit of running the tires at maximum pressure.
If you're not willing or able to pay for Nokians or Schwalbes, the DIY approach is probably preferable to buying cheap studded tires.
NOKIAN ROLLSPEED (http://www.suomityres.fi/winter.html)
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Schwalbe had three different styles of studded tyre at the Cycle Show...
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Schwalbe had three different styles of studded tyre at the Cycle Show...
That means we're in for six years of mild and wet winters until they get too dry and perished to sell...
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They had the Marathons, and the others seemed to be more aimed at snow and ice respectively.
Incidentally, Continental also had a stand.
0 studded tyres.
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I've found the Hakkapeliita W106
How well do these tyres cope with mixed riding, i.e. being ridden as a general shite-weather commuter on tarmac in addition to being used in ice / snow?
And how is the sizing, do they tend to be fatter than their indicated size? I could squeeze in the 35s as long as they are true to their sizing.
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I've found the Hakkapeliita W106
How well do these tyres cope with mixed riding, i.e. being ridden as a general shite-weather commuter on tarmac in addition to being used in ice / snow?
And how is the sizing, do they tend to be fatter than their indicated size? I could squeeze in the 35s as long as they are true to their sizing.
They tend to skid rather easily on bare pavement, so I would caution against getting into situations where you have to brake sharply. Otherwise they are fine on bare pavement, if a bit slow. I expect to deal with some ice and snow on just about every ride from November through April, so the only bike I ride during those months is the one with studded tires. If I lived in an area with more sporadic icy conditions I would probably alternate between studded tires and more conventional tires, either by having 2 bikes or by having a second set of wheels.
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Thanks Mark. I'd like to get a pair of not-too-expensive studded tyres just as a standby - I'm a wuss on ice / snow and there was a period of some weeks early this year when I didn't commute by bike. I'd like to avoid that this year.
I see the Nokians are not readily available in the UK though.
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Order early!
But all the studded tyres are the heaviest, slowest things evar on tarmac. Trudle like a tractor.
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I'm still dithering. I managed everything last year, and only really ducked out the commute one day because I wasn't convinced the cars would be able to stop instead of rear-ending me. But the attraction of having some more serious and capable hooves on the steed is very tempting indeed...
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But all the studded tyres are the heaviest, slowest things evar on tarmac. Trudle like a tractor.
Not a problem when they're pumped up hard, they only added 2 minutes to my 28 minute commute when I was breaking them in on dry tarmac. The Marathon Winter tyres don't have studs that near the central ridge, so they don't make contact with the tarmac most of the time your riding them pumped up near max pressure.
Of course, you should let the pressures down for use on snow/ice, which means the studs get to make contact earlier. Bit of a bugger if, like my commute, only the first/last km is ever icy/snowy enough to warrant studded tyres, the rest of the commute is on roads that get cleared quickly by the council and/or traffic (but it's still nice to have the studs there just in case you hit the odd patch of ice). Maybe I should investigate a more back-road route for snowy/icy days to make maximum use of them.
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I see the Nokians are not readily available in the UK though.
I bought my Hakkapeliitas through Bike Components (.de) (http://www.bike-components.de/shop/language/en/cat/c571_Spike-Tire.html/limit/40), who seem reasonably efficient. The English language website is mostly readable, but you may have to drop the odd page of description of a product into something like Google Language Tools (http://www.google.co.uk/language_tools?hl=en).
The Hakkapeliitas are there as "Nokian Hakka W106 Spikes Drahtreifen" (Drahtreifen=Clincher).
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Spa Cycles have Schwalbe Winter Marathons in 700x35 and 26x1.75 listed at the moment for 32 quid
Last winter was very snowy / icey and I think I missed about a week of commuting due to road conditions. I would guess that were be another 3 or 4 weeks when spikey tyres were "nice to have"
I am guessing the winter this year will be less severe so I am not getting special tyres
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I did my sums and I would have been better off dropping £70 on ice specific tyres. I'm just not convinced that the performance is worth it. Is it?
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I just want to be able to bimble past people digging their cars out, and then turn up at work, at my normal time, whilst everyone else trundles in with tales of woe and difficulty in their travels. ;D
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On glass ice where you cannot ride safely, you can ride with ice tyres.
Snow performance is similar to MTB tyres.
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Studded tyres aren't a panacea to all road conditions, and on a steep camber you need to take care, possibly even when it's bone dry.
Peter White says:
Riding on ice with studded tires is like walking on ice that's been lightly covered with sand. It's pretty safe. You're not likely to fall unless you do something stupid. You're not going to have the same traction you would have on dry pavement. But you're going to have far more than you would with regular tires on ice. Keep in mind that there's ice down there and you'll be fine. Try to be a hero, and you'll probably pay a price.
Which seems like good advice.
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Hm. Basically there's a range of conditions where you'd just not ride, where you would now ride with normal winter-caution.
Where roads are gritted, there's no need. A tready tyre is ample. Pick routes to take the main, gritted roads, and the majority of UK conditions are met.
The necessity case puts you up high or up north or car-free in the countryside, away from the gritten track.
The sheer-bloodymindedness case needs no arguing. ;D
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There were mutterings a couple of weeks ago that a fair number of councils still haven't received their grit from the salt mines.
Also, there's a squeeze on local government spending (in case you hadn't noticed), and you may well find that some routes that were gritted last year or the year before won't be gritted this year.
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...which may lead to the following balancing act during any freeze we see: Is it worth £70 in tyres to get to the first heavily trafficed road, where the cars do the magic?
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Cycle paths just don't get gritted.
Frost traps are everywhere.
I like my Haakepelliittaaas and have only fallen off them a few times (really rutted very hard ice).
Cambered roads aren't too much of a problem - just don't be a hero.
I got my A10s for 10NOK each at a jumble sale. The W106 were nearer 260 NOK each and have lasted 12 years so far.
..d
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...which may lead to the following balancing act during any freeze we see: Is it worth £70 in tyres to get to the first heavily trafficed road, where the cars do the magic?
in short nope.. is it worth the 70 quid to keep you upright in traffic when you hit a magic glassy bit, hell yea.
even if the above wasn't true would I be getting me some anyway, hell yea. :-)
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Where roads are gritted, there's no need. A tready tyre is ample. Pick routes to take the main, gritted roads, and the majority of UK conditions are met.
Ice is a problem on residential un-gritted roads - the cars are moving slowly, so can afford to slide about a bit. Whereas on 2 wheels you've just broken your pelvis/collarbone.
Then there's early morning rides - after a frost, before the cars have churned up the grit/ice (or whatever it is they do).
I don't see enough ice to know much about it, but I see enough to fall off and hurt myself :-\
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On glass ice where you cannot ride safely, you can ride with ice tyres.
Snow performance is similar to MTB tyres.
<voice of experience>
Unless the glass ice is across a road with a steep camber in which case you'll end up sprawled over the road and possibly in pain. :(
</voice of experience>
My road, a rat run half an inch deep in polished ice, was fine to pull a wheelie on with my DIY studded tyres last winter.
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I just want to be able to bimble past people digging their cars out, and then turn up at work, at my normal time, whilst everyone else trundles in with tales of woe and difficulty in their travels. ;D
Precisely, Tim :) Ideally, without spending too much on the tyres.
Cycle paths just don't get gritted.
Frost traps are everywhere
I'm in SW London but my immediate area seems to be a strangely low, cold spot. Very poorly gritted, if at all. If gritted, not enough traffic for the grit to work.
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Are we likely to get another *bad winter this year ???
*dependant on whether you like snow & ice or not.
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I just want to be able to bimble past people digging their cars out, and then turn up at work, at my normal time, whilst everyone else trundles in with tales of woe and difficulty in their travels. ;D
Managed exactly that on the Catrike last year.
However there were issues with spinning of the drive wheel, so these tyres would be helpful.
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I just want to be able to bimble past people digging their cars out, and then turn up at work, at my normal time, whilst everyone else trundles in with tales of woe and difficulty in their travels. ;D
Precisely, Tim :) Ideally, without spending too much on the tyres.
Cycle paths just don't get gritted.
Frost traps are everywhere
I'm in SW London but my immediate area seems to be a strangely low, cold spot. Very poorly gritted, if at all. If gritted, not enough traffic for the grit to work.
To the first quote, my greatest enjoyment last year was 4x4's pulling out to overtake, hitting the gas, and spinning all four wheels and going backwards :demon:
To the second quote, I'm in "Southend Cycle Town". The Council are already on record as stating that they won't be gritting the cycle paths as they don't expect enough cyclists to exist during the winter...
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I don't see it will be worth my while spending out £70 on studded tyres as I managed ok last year, just thought it'll be easier with studded tyres if I could get a cheap pair... Think I manage, usually the cars have worn a nice route on the roads!
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I don't see it will be worth my while spending out £70 on studded tyres as I managed ok last year, just thought it'll be easier with studded tyres if I could get a cheap pair... Think I manage, usually the cars have worn a nice route on the roads!
Without winter tyres last year I would have had to have commuted by train 10 days.
The first road I need to go down looked like this: http://www.greenbank.org/misc/Image005.jpg (roughly 5% hill going down). It's about 1km before I get to roads that have enough traffic on them to clear them.
Given that the train is ~£3.50 a day I just need another 10 days and the tyres would have paid for themselves. (I could just work from home but where's the fun in that.)
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these aren't too bad at £27.99 each
Schwalbe Snow Stud Tyre | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com (http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=24564)
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I'm still on the lookout for a set of cheap wheels to fit mine to, but then again I haven't used my hackbike since last winter so it is still clad with the Marathon Winters.
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Would I need a pair or would I get away with using just one?? (front or back??)
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Would I need a pair or would I get away with using just one?? (front or back??)
You'd need a pair.
If you had one on the back only you'd lose the front within seconds and go down hard. Madness.
If you had one on the front you'd stay upright most of the time but struggle to get any traction.
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Would I need a pair or would I get away with using just one?? (front or back??)
You'd need a pair.
If you had one on the back only you'd lose the front within seconds and go down hard. Madness.
If you had one on the front you'd stay upright most of the time but struggle to get any traction.
Thanks was thinking one on the front only..but traction like you say would be a problem.... might get a pair when I get paid then ..cheers
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I don't see it will be worth my while spending out £70 on studded tyres as I managed ok last year, just thought it'll be easier with studded tyres if I could get a cheap pair... Think I manage, usually the cars have worn a nice route on the roads!
Without winter tyres last year I would have had to have commuted by train 10 days.
The first road I need to go down looked like this: http://www.greenbank.org/misc/Image005.jpg (roughly 5% hill going down). It's about 1km before I get to roads that have enough traffic on them to clear them.
Given that the train is ~£3.50 a day I just need another 10 days and the tyres would have paid for themselves. (I could just work from home but where's the fun in that.)
The local roads around where I lived had enough traffic to ensure that the snow was packed down into a solid icy layer, but not enough for it to be gritted and for that ice to clear.
I did commute by public transport for a similar period of time, and it costs me just over £7 a day, so I would quite possibly pay for the tyres, plus I get more exercise and a smug feeling!
Would I need a pair or would I get away with using just one?? (front or back??)
You'd need a pair.
If you had one on the back only you'd lose the front within seconds and go down hard. Madness.
If you had one on the front you'd stay upright most of the time but struggle to get any traction.
That's pretty much what Peter White says in his studded tyres (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.asp) blurb (See the paragraphs about 2/3rds of the way down "One Tire Only in Front?"). If you can only have one tyre you need it on the front, but you really need two tyres.
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I don't see it will be worth my while spending out £70 on studded tyres as I managed ok last year, just thought it'll be easier with studded tyres if I could get a cheap pair... Think I manage, usually the cars have worn a nice route on the roads!
Without winter tyres last year I would have had to have commuted by train 10 days.
The first road I need to go down looked like this: http://www.greenbank.org/misc/Image005.jpg (roughly 5% hill going down). It's about 1km before I get to roads that have enough traffic on them to clear them.
hmm. I managed 55mile round trips on the roads last year, 15 miles of which was on roads like this: http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Fcjv6BKmydU/THQ8-GFVzfI/AAAAAAAAAD8/ukjLsBg8n3g/s640/snow4.JPG (http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Fcjv6BKmydU/THQ8-GFVzfI/AAAAAAAAAD8/ukjLsBg8n3g/s640/snow4.JPG)
It was very hard work, mostly because of snow build-up on the tyres rubbing on mudguards. That was using GP4S tyres. The days I quite riding were the ones following the heavy snowfall, when cars had packed the snow to ice, then the top melted in the sun.
If things go well, I hope to have a more suitable bike running for extreme winter. Not sure I'll bother with studded tyres tho'.
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When I couldn't ride, the trains had already given up at least the day before. And the roads near me can be really bad, but it's not far to roads which are reasonably passable. Slow, but possible. And the roads get clearer and clearer into town, although I did see a few people go down on glassy ice near E&C last year (oh - and I did, too, going to help one of them :-[ )
I think I will get some Winters and see how it goes.
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Another option is to use snow chains, but it looks like they're a bit noisy on anything other than significant snow, and pretty damned rare.
They're mentioned on some sites, like IceBike (http://www.icebike.org/Equipment/tirechains.htm), but the Koolstop ones which they talk about don't seem to be available any more.
There are quite a few sites detailing how to make them, which would probably be a more sensible approach, and it looks a much more practical proposition if you're using a bike with disc brakes, since you don't have to worry about keeping the chains clear of the rims.
One of the few commercial chains I managed to find are Pit Bull Mountain Bike Tire Chains (http://www.triathletesports.com/Pit-Bull-Mtn-Bike-Tire-Chains-p/acacmi0017.htm), but they're typically $60 to $70, plus postage to the UK, probably VAT, possibly duty, and whatever the delivery company charges to collect that VAT and duty (£8 for the PO, more for most others). Studded tyres would work out cheaper, and they'll work far better on icy conditions, which the chains aren't really designed for.
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Chains would be a PITA unless your ride was consistently snow/ice. The great Wen is sufficiently warmer in the middle (and the passage of vehicles radiating waste heat passing over the roads) means that ain't the case for thee or me.
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Would I need a pair or would I get away with using just one?? (front or back??)
You'd need a pair.
If you had one on the back only you'd lose the front within seconds and go down hard. Madness.
If you had one on the front you'd stay upright most of the time but struggle to get any traction.
Thanks was thinking one on the front only..but traction like you say would be a problem.... might get a pair when I get paid then ..cheers
I think it depends ... if your journey is flat enough, you don't need a lot of traction (and most roads just have ice on some bits, not all - the other bits being either dry, snow or slush). And front wheels are a lot quicker to swap.
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With just a front wheel you still stand the chance of losing the back wheel whilst turning on unseen ice.
If it's icy enough to warrant studded tyres I'd want them on both.
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I look at the title of this thread and think "Did it? What does it do now?". Only because I'm bored, mind.
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Would I need a pair or would I get away with using just one?? (front or back??)
You'd need a pair.
If you had one on the back only you'd lose the front within seconds and go down hard. Madness.
If you had one on the front you'd stay upright most of the time but struggle to get any traction.
A pair makes sense, although on shiny compressed snow last year I found a cyclocross mud tyre run at a low pressure was giving me a fair bit of traction on the rear (very little slip at all if I kept my weight over the rear wheel- not dissimilar from riding in wet mud)- I doubt it would've worked so well if I'd had to negotiate a significant gradient on the same surface.
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I haven't tried proper smooth ice with just a 'cross tyre on the rear though.
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I like riding on quiet, low traffic, country lanes - the kind that don't get gritted and don't even get much motor traffic to help clear ice. As I've got older (and had a growing number of club-mates go over on black ice and break bones) I've felt less and less comfortable in going out in icy conditions. I remember years ago doing a mid-winter, sub-zero, 40 mile journey where at least 2/3rds of the roads were sheet ice, I made it around by being very cautious and it was quite thrilling, but these days the thought of such a venture scares me to death. I know I could stick to the main roads but I wouldn't enjoy that so much, plus I have to get to the main roads in the first place. I'm sure that until I got my studded tyres that every other time I felt like a winter ride I changed my mind because of the worry about black ice patches. Even when I did go out (pre-studs) I didn't enjoy it as much as I ought to have because of the worry about ice.
So I don't see it as £70 spent on a pair of tyres, rather £70 spent to allow me to ride happily when and where I want throughout a 1/4 of the year. Sure, the problem might have been as much in my head as on the road, but the studs fixed it and for that I think that they are a bargain.
They are slow and heavy, but as I pootle that doesn't make too much difference. As for handling on dry, ice-free roads - never had a problem.
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Chains would be a PITA unless your ride was consistently snow/ice. The great Wen is sufficiently warmer in the middle (and the passage of vehicles radiating waste heat passing over the roads) means that ain't the case for thee or me.
Indeed, for most people on here chains are no use whatsoever, and only a very few people will be in parts of the world where they make any sense. They could be useful if you wanted to take a disc braked mountain bike out in heavy snow, and were willing to do some experimenting with a home made solution. I just thought I'd throw it out there.
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With just a front wheel you still stand the chance of losing the back wheel whilst turning on unseen ice.
If it's icy enough to warrant studded tyres I'd want them on both.
I'm not saying rear studs are pointless !!!
Just that people manage without them, and there are cost/convenience issues. OK?
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I don't see it will be worth my while spending out £70 on studded tyres as I managed ok last year, just thought it'll be easier with studded tyres if I could get a cheap pair... Think I manage, usually the cars have worn a nice route on the roads!
Without winter tyres last year I would have had to have commuted by train 10 days.
The first road I need to go down looked like this: http://www.greenbank.org/misc/Image005.jpg (roughly 5% hill going down). It's about 1km before I get to roads that have enough traffic on them to clear them.
hmm. I managed 55mile round trips on the roads last year, 15 miles of which was on roads like this: http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Fcjv6BKmydU/THQ8-GFVzfI/AAAAAAAAAD8/ukjLsBg8n3g/s640/snow4.JPG (http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Fcjv6BKmydU/THQ8-GFVzfI/AAAAAAAAAD8/ukjLsBg8n3g/s640/snow4.JPG)
It was very hard work, mostly because of snow build-up on the tyres rubbing on mudguards. That was using GP4S tyres. The days I quite riding were the ones following the heavy snowfall, when cars had packed the snow to ice, then the top melted in the sun.
If things go well, I hope to have a more suitable bike running for extreme winter. Not sure I'll bother with studded tyres tho'.
As we're posting photos, this ice was what I was riding on last year.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q273/nuttycyclist/cycling/IMG_1402.jpg
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glazed and compacted crap. Much harder than snow.
I had some of that, but staying upright was more a matter of close eyes and pray than tyre grip. studs for that stuff, I think.
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Rather than start a new thread I might as well ask here. I'm finally getting organised to making a pair of these homebrew riveted tyres (http://www.instructables.com/id/Pop-Rivet-Ice-Tires-for-Your-Road-Bike/#step1) after putting it off all summer and need advice on rivet selection please.
The article says steel, is it worth buying stainless?
The ones I've been looking at are for 1.6mm to 3.2mm or for 3.2mm to 4.8mm. Taking into account the thickness of the tyre plus the washer I think it'll be slap bang in the middle of the two sizes. With the longer ones the "collar" would fold over more and with the shorter ones the "head" will be more exposed.
Will it even matter? I've not used a lot of rivets so don't want to spend all that time faffing having chosen the wrong ones.
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Rather than start a new thread I might as well ask here. I'm finally getting organised to making a pair of these homebrew riveted tyres (http://www.instructables.com/id/Pop-Rivet-Ice-Tires-for-Your-Road-Bike/#step1) after putting it off all summer and need advice on rivet selection please.
You might find you question already answered in this thread: DIY Studded tyres (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=28222.0)
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Thanks but I've either missed the answers or they're not in that thread. Plenty of screws used but I didn't see many rivets. I probably should have asked in there rather than here though.
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The first road I need to go down looked like this: http://www.greenbank.org/misc/Image005.jpg (roughly 5% hill going down). It's about 1km before I get to roads that have enough traffic on them to clear them.
Ah, thanks for this - I have a few gradients on my route and I was wondering how studded tyres cope with them. Would you say it's better to be on fixed or a freewheel when riding up or downhill on studded tyres? Or doesn't it make a difference? I can't help feeling I'd rather be on a freewheel, but I'm not sure why.
d.
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Thanks but I've either missed the answers or they're not in that thread. Plenty of screws used but I didn't see many rivets. I probably should have asked in there rather than here though.
I think that might be because rivets probably won't work well in uk conditions. We are looking at glazed ice patches with bitumen. rivet heads are usually softish metal, and will wear very rapidly on bitumen. Screws are much harder.
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The first road I need to go down looked like this: http://www.greenbank.org/misc/Image005.jpg (roughly 5% hill going down). It's about 1km before I get to roads that have enough traffic on them to clear them.
Ah, thanks for this - I have a few gradients on my route and I was wondering how studded tyres cope with them. Would you say it's better to be on fixed or a freewheel when riding up or downhill on studded tyres? Or doesn't it make a difference? I can't help feeling I'd rather be on a freewheel, but I'm not sure why.
My studded tyres are on the hackbike (Gary Fisher Nirvana Hybrid) with gears. My fixed only just has space for 25mm tyres, so no chance of 35mm tyres with studs. Even if I did have a suitable frame (Pomp for example) I probably wouldn't bother, fixed is good for lots of things but not everything. I'd probably like to be able to stand on the pedals and freewheel over the worst bits.
As for that gradient, I came up it on the way home after 5-a-side just as it had started snowing (so there was a sheen of slippery wet snow, not 2" deep snow like that photo). I had no problem with studded tyres and overtook a Police car that simply couldn't climb it, it just kept on spinning out despite an experienced driver at the wheel (i.e. not just trying it in first gear). He wound down his window to ask me how I was able to get traction and I pointed at the studded tyres.
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I'd probably like to be able to stand on the pedals and freewheel over the worst bits.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought. I'd be interested to hear the views of anyone who has tried both fixed and freewheel with snow tyres.
For me, it's the same bike either way - it's just a question of swapping the rear wheel if I want to go from fixed to SS or vice versa. When the opportunity arises, I'll probably try both ways just to see for myself.
He wound down his window to ask me how I was able to get traction and I pointed at the studded tyres.
;D
d.
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For me, it's the same bike either way - it's just a question of swapping the rear wheel if I want to go from fixed to SS or vice versa. When the opportunity arises, I'll probably try both ways just to see for myself.
Does the frame/forks have clearance for the equivalent of 42mm tyres?
Also, for snow, you'll need to either remove the mudguards, or have a huge amount of clearance. Even 10mm clearance between studded tyres and mudguards fills up with snow pretty rapidly.
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure it'll be fine clearance-wise. It's a CX bike, designed to take fat tyres... I'll be a bit miffed if it turns out I'm wrong.
d.
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Thanks but I've either missed the answers or they're not in that thread. Plenty of screws used but I didn't see many rivets. I probably should have asked in there rather than here though.
... is the right answer. :thumbsup:
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I'd probably like to be able to stand on the pedals and freewheel over the worst bits.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought. I'd be interested to hear the views of anyone who has tried both fixed and freewheel with snow tyres.
For me, it's the same bike either way - it's just a question of swapping the rear wheel if I want to go from fixed to SS or vice versa. When the opportunity arises, I'll probably try both ways just to see for myself.
He wound down his window to ask me how I was able to get traction and I pointed at the studded tyres.
;D
d.
I haven't ridden fixed with studded.
I have ridden all types of bike in snow & ice conditions (including one, two and three wheel types).
Freewheel every time. The worst case is when you get sudden sideways motion (on studded tyres this was when I went onto a patch of slush where a resident had salted).
- Fixed : you can't catch it, either you spin up and drop it, or you lock up and drop it.
- Freewheel : stop pedalling, control the slide with the steering, ride away.
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- Fixed : you can't catch it, either you spin up and drop it, or you lock up and drop it.
I don't see why you'd automatically do one or the other. With fixed you're more likely to maintain current cadence, maybe go a little faster until you notice, but you can't assume you'd spin up and drop it. Obviously if you're mashing the pedals at the time you'll be in trouble, but that situation isn't going to be that different if you were on a bike with a freewheel.
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- Fixed : you can't catch it, either you spin up and drop it, or you lock up and drop it.
I don't see why you'd automatically do one or the other. With fixed you're more likely to maintain current cadence, maybe go a little faster until you notice, but you can't assume you'd spin up and drop it. Obviously if you're mashing the pedals at the time you'll be in trouble, but that situation isn't going to be that different if you were on a bike with a freewheel.
From experience.
Pressure on pedals as riding forwards up a slight incline. Bike steps sideways due to unseen reason and rear loses traction. The pressure on pedals immediate accelerates the wheel as traction goes from complete to zero.
Bike now steps wildly out as the back wheel has spun up.
To regain traction you've got to get the wheel turning at the correct speed so that the tyre is turning at the same rate as the ground is passing. Highly technical. Back off too much and you're braking/locking up, back off not enough and you're still spinning.
On a freewheel you just stop pedalling and the tiny amount of friction does that for you, but any sliding is still irrelevant as you can focus on steering and control.
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Possilby OT:
The nice science lady on the BBC yesterday mentioned that last winter was a 1-in-20 year bad one. So perhaps we should be multiplying the prices in our cost-benefit cases by 20 ... :P
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Fortunately, my commuting route gets icy every year, just not always as badly as last year, so the cost-benefit of studded tyres is somewhat improved.
d.
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Just had some continental spike claw 240s delivered.
Can't belive how exctied I am to get some new tires.
Bring on the cold.
(however knowing my luck, it is going to be a mild one now..)
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(however knowing my luck, it is going to be a mild one now..)
Oh, I hope not.
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I've been commuting for 20+ years and I've only got some studded tyres last winter.
In all that time I've fallen off as a result of snow and ice on three occasions; all on the same journey.
Fresh snow on frozen old snow. It was a bastard, mainly because I couldn't see when the front wheel was trying to climb out of a rut.
Otherwise soft knobbly tyres have done the job fine.
I could've done with some spikes that day though.
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Right. I've ordered some Winters. There are none in stock, so I'll have to wait, but it isn't going to snow imminently, is it?
Is it?
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Right. I've ordered some Winters. There are none in stock, so I'll have to wait, but it isn't going to snow imminently, is it?
Is it?
You should be OK for a few weeks yet.
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I rode fixed with studs (more like spikes, actually). It was fine, not a single "moment" except when I tried to get through deep snow with 35mm tyres and experienced awful tramlining.
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I have enough bruises to convince me that studded tyres are a profoundly silly idea, unless of course they come with a trike to fit them to, in which case bring it on...
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A quick heads-up. Clas Ohlson - the swedish shop - has metal spiked tyres in stock in their Kingston-upon-Thames branch. Just what we need to get us through the vicious winters in SW London. The brand in "Innova".
Not sure if that means anything because according the shelf they also have tyres made by Nokia. Presumably these call home autonomously when you get a puncture.
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Sure they aren't Nokian?
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They are from a town called Nokia, and I think they were formerly known as Nokia till the parts of the company separated.
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Sure they aren't Nokian?
I'm sure they are ... and I'm guessing julesh knows this, but the shopkeeper doesn't.
...
Not sure if that means anything because according the shelf they also have tyres made by Nokia. ...
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They didn't have any in stock ;D I'm assuming they mean Nokian.
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They didn't have any in stock ;D I'm assuming they mean Nokian.
They have Innova written on them, cost £29.99 and are available 559x50, 622X 45 and 622x37 (I think). As to whether they are any good or not..............................
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Which branch did you look in? There was a good stock of Innova in Kingston but no Nokia(n)s last week
As for quality I'd never seen a studded tyre before so don't know what they are supposed to look like. As previous discussions here seemed to involved assorted people threading wood screws through the tread to make their own I was expected to be something a bit more vicious than the odd blunt 5mm metal spike anyway.
YM(before falling off and breaking your hip on a sheet of ice)MV
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There are many different types with varying numbers of studs. My experience in the UK was that I never even thought about needing them (mind you, I've only had 3 offs in my life and two of them were down to black ice, but that was when I was living out in the sticks).
The people who make their own with screws etc. are usually living in places like Manitoba where it gets down to -40 in the winter for 5 months of the year and there is permanent thick ice on the ground during this time. Where I live in Ontario, it only gets down to -25 in the winter, and most of the time it's more like -15, and the ice it sporadic and variable - mind you I can ride on the lake with my studded tires!
FWIW, I bought the Innova ones first and they were crap: really difficult to fit and the bead sheared off from the rest of the tyre, plus the studs rusted really quickly. The Nokian ones are the dog's bollocks. I use Hakkapeliitta W240s. Schwalbe are also really good. You have to remember to ride them in for 25 miles on ordinary uniced paved road before they bed in properly... a lot of people forget and wonder why they don't seem to 'work'
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Which branch did you look in? There was a good stock of Innova in Kingston but no Nokia(n)s last week
As for quality I'd never seen a studded tyre before so don't know what they are supposed to look like. As previous discussions here seemed to involved assorted people threading wood screws through the tread to make their own I was expected to be something a bit more vicious than the odd blunt 5mm metal spike anyway.
YM(before falling off and breaking your hip on a sheet of ice)MV
That was in Croydon. I looked in the catalogue which showed Nokian tyres and Innova tyres, but not Nokian ice tyres to the best of my knowledge.
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I have just got a Schwalbe Marathon Winter tyre with the full rows of spikes across the tyre width.
I used two snow tyres with spikes last year on my winter bike. These have spikes on the edges only. Good, until I had to stop & put both feet down on ice, then I fell over.
At my age I can't risk a broken hip, so the new tyre goes onto the drive wheel of my winter trike & the two snow tyres are split between the front wheel & the idler wheel.
The trike is an Cyclone conversion with a Longstaff axle based on an MTB, originally fifty quid off Ebay.
Spa were insistant that I understood the need to run for at least 25 miles on dry tarmac. The noise is awesome! Bring on the ice.
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Spa were insistant that I understood the need to run for at least 25 miles on dry tarmac.
Can you explain why this is?
It's because FM mentioned it already that I've decided to fit my winter tyres now (did it this morning, in fact) specifically for the purpose of running them in, but I have to admit I don't understand why it needs to be done.
Is it OK to have them at full pressure while running them in? Or do I need to run them at lower pressure to ensure the spikes make contact with the road?
d.
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As I understand it, it's purely to make sure that all the studs are well seated in the tyre, before exerting any force on them which is likely to cause a stud to come out.
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hmm
We had no trouble picking a load of sloes the size of olives a couple of weeks ago
The yew bushes outside the window are covered in red dots
It is going to be a cold winter. The question is will it be a snowy/icey winter?
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I can't decide if I really need studded tyres. If it snpws I'll commute on the mtb with chunky knobblies & lower pressure.
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Some bbc science bird said the other day that last winter was a 1-in-20-years job. So we probably won't get a similar one 'soon'.
Depends where you live - some of you see a lot of ice even in 'mild' winters. It's only money ... :P
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Whether it's a harsh winter or a mild one, it only takes one small patch of ice to cause a fall that could see you out of action for months...
d.
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In which case noone in England will ride without studs from now until at least May (forecast was 0'c in the SE last night). You have to decide a compromise at some point.
[Not that I'm fond of taking chances any more, I should stress. ]
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I'm definitely leaning towards erring on the side of caution at the moment. Experiences of recent winters past have made me very nervous when there's the possibility of ice. Possibly more nervous than I need to be, I admit.
d.
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I bought some Marathon Winters last year, but failed to fit them to my SJS-training-frame fixed. There just isn't enough room.
This year I'm building an On-One ;D
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Bollox, fannied about too long to get them from Wiggle, and Spa phoned me today to say they'd 'just sold out' (why didn't you tell me that yesterday? probably cos you sold them to someone in the shop instead).
Arse.
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Chain Reaction (http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=48758) have the "Schwalbe Snow Stud Tyre", which isn't the same as the Marathon Winters, but is a studded tyre. They don't have any in 26", but they do in 29" (ie 700C for MTBers).
Alternatively, Bike Componets (.de) (http://www.bike-components.de/products/info/p16983_Marathon-Winter-Performance-Spike-Drahtreifen-Modell-2011.html) have them in stock, in several sizes, but obviously due to the greater distance involved and currency conversion, it's likely to cost you more.
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Woo, my google-fu worked, 3rd time lucky. Managed to get some at a place called Bike24.com, also in Germany, cos I needed 26". €72 incl shipping. I shall go to the ice ball! And I can see on DHL they're already on their way :)
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I think companies in many of the continental countries more easily have them in stock, since snow and ice is a more reliable occurrence for them, so they know they'll have the demand.
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I think companies in many of the continental countries more easily have them in stock, since snow and ice is a more reliable occurrence for them, so they know they'll have the demand.
That's what I figured. I was surprised not to see any at Rose Versand though.
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Ah, but none of these have the job satisfaction and opportunity to injure yourself provided by the DIY option.
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My name is not nutty. Plus, frankly, ICBA :)
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So, I have my tyres, and given the weather forecast I might even put them on soon.
Q - My usual commute route features a humpback cobbled bridge, which I usually avoid like the plague as soon as it gets frosty, after breaking a chunk off my helmet there a few winters ago.
Are cobbles a bad idea on studded tyres? I wondered if the studs were more likely to get ripped off in between the setts, or if the cobbles will be too slidey for the metal.
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Ah, but none of these have the job satisfaction and opportunity to injure yourself provided by the DIY option.
There are quite a few continental AUKs.
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So, I have my tyres, and given the weather forecast I might even put them on soon.
Q - My usual commute route features a humpback cobbled bridge, which I usually avoid like the plague as soon as it gets frosty, after breaking a chunk off my helmet there a few winters ago.
Are cobbles a bad idea on studded tyres? I wondered if the studs were more likely to get ripped off in between the setts, or if the cobbles will be too slidey for the metal.
I would think the studs will bite in to the cobbles (whether wet, dry or icy). I don't think the studs are long enough to get caught and ripped off in the gaps between the setts (not the ones on Schwalbe Marathon Winter tyres anyway). I only lost a couple of studs last year - I don't ride over any traditional cobbles, but some modern ones (traffic calming at the end of the road on my daily commute).
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I wouldn't think the studs would bite into the cobbles, just into any ice on the cobbles.
The studs have flat ends rather than sharp ends, tyre pressure isn't all that high, and cobbles are generally of a fairly hard stone to stop them wearing out too quickly.
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You won't lose the studs. What you will get is about the same grip as on wet polished cobbles. Ie not much, but more than ice.
It may prove beneficial to keep your winter tyres on an old set of wheels to save having to faff with tyres when the weather looks poor.
..d
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I haz no such thing :(
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yet
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I haz no such thing :(
I keep my winter tyres on all the time from roughly November to March as I can't be bothered faffing about changing tyres. They are slower than normal tyres and will wear down quicker on dry tarmac but I've had 3 years so far out of my current winter tyres doing a daily 12 mile commute.
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I have been in correspondence with DotBike (http://www.DotBike.com) on this matter, and they are trying to import the Schwalbe winter ones, they have more expensive ones in stock.
Still waiting for 700 and 26" Marathon Winters to arrive from importer (ordered in August!) I have 26" Ice Spikers on the shelf which are pretty knobbly.
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I ordered a set of Marathon Winters from Bike24 last Sunday and they arrived on Thursday. I've fitted them to a Gary Fisher Sugar 3 that I picked up for not much cash on Gumtree and now I've got a real winter bike. I've actually looking forward to the end of this week when it's meant to get a bit snowy.
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I ordered a set of Marathon Winters from Bike24 last Sunday and they arrived on Thursday. I've fitted them to a Gary Fisher Sugar 3 that I picked up for not much cash on Gumtree and now I've got a real winter bike. I've actually looking forward to the end of this week when it's meant to get a bit snowy.
Same here. Although I'm still waiting for a new set of mudguards, the old ones failed on a towpath.
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I haz no such thing :(
I keep my winter tyres on all the time from roughly November to March as I can't be bothered faffing about changing tyres. They are slower than normal tyres and will wear down quicker on dry tarmac but I've had 3 years so far out of my current winter tyres doing a daily 12 mile commute.
That's good to know :)
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The way the temperature will be dropping in the next week, I'm wondering whether swapping over to studs (just for any ice) would be a good idea! I've got a set of Hakkapeliittas sat in the kitchen doing nothing at the moment.
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The way the temperature will be dropping in the next week, I'm wondering whether swapping over to studs (just for any ice) would be a good idea! I've got a set of Hakkapeliittas sat in the kitchen doing nothing at the moment.
It would be cruel to them not to let them fulfil their destiny. ::-)
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Still waiting for my winter tyres from Wiggle
*drums fingers*
*stares at calender*
*sighs*
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Still waiting for 700 and 26" Marathon Winters to arrive from importer (ordered in August!) I have 26" Ice Spikers on the shelf which are pretty knobbly.
You may be waiting a while.... :(
I have been waiting for some tyres from the importer promised in June. I think supplies to the UK of special tyres from Schwalbe may be a little sporadic?
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Still waiting for my winter tyres from Wiggle
Wiggle respond that the tyres are expected in in 'late November'.
*looks at calendar again* ::-)
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oh cock. I'd found some showing as 'in stock' on Amazon and ordered them last night, then this morning I get an email saying sorry, their amazon page was out of date and they're not expecting them in till Jan.
I might be ordering from Germany!
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Expected January? That's gonna be useful.
Not that I trust Wiggle to deliver before spring...
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I ordered some 35mm Marathon Winters from starbike in germany yesterday (22nd Nov)
I'll let you know when they appear
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Dearly_Beloved ordered from Germany (I think) and got them in about 3 days. They worked out a bit cheaper too...
Apparently everyone in his office went out to have a listen to the noise they make riding round the car park t'other day. He's very happy with them, although getting the bike into the bike shed dining room without damaging the laminate flooring is quite challenging.
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I ordered some 35mm Marathon Winters from starbike in germany yesterday (22nd Nov)
I'll let you know when they appear
And I ordered the same from bike24 yesterday. We'll see who wins!
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There is almost no snow (1mm!) nor is there rain forcast for York for the next fortnight, so I wouldn't fret, CL. Cold and dry conditions, lovely cycling weather.
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I ordered some 35mm Marathon Winters from starbike in germany yesterday (22nd Nov)
I'll let you know when they appear
And I ordered the same from bike24 yesterday. We'll see who wins!
You might win with getting it them on a Roadrat as I am not 100% certain that they will go under the guards on mine
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You might win with getting it them on a Roadrat as I am not 100% certain that they will go under the guards on mine
Should be ok on mine - I've currently got 37mm tyres and 45mm mudguards. I don't think I'll have to adjust anything.
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So, (OT) if I get my winter tyres flown over from Germany, how many miles would I have to cycle on them to recoup the carbon used?
Bearing in mind that they would need to be shipped in bulk from Germany anyway, if they had come from Wiggle et al.
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According to this:
http://www.airportwatch.org.uk/news/detail.php?art_id=3262
not very far.
(Tonne kilometers) x (kg CO2/tonne km) x (km uplift factor)
So if the package containing my tyres is 3kg and the distance to my house is 1500km from the shop then the plane emits 6.5kg CO2:
0.003 tonnes x 1500km x 1.316kg CO2 x 1.09 = 6.5 kg CO2
I'd need to ride to work once to offset the carbon emissions from driving the same journey (45km round trip, Ford Focus, 167gm CO2/km)
I think.
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Oh, that's good. Worth thinking about then. :thumbsup:
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I wasn't thinking of the carbon when I bought them I was thinking of the cost
Two tyres shipped was approx £77 quid
Each day of driving in to work instead of riding - which I might do due to ice - would cost £5 in petrol and £2 parking
Therefore, it will take 11 of these days to recoup the tyres. Which is entirely possible even with a fairly normal winter, as I commute 5 days a week. Also if I only have them on a couple of months I should be able to use them again next year
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Saving money very often seems to equate with saving carbon, don't you find?
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Maybe I do need to find a cheap set of disk wheels for the MTB to stick the winter knobblies on..
..d
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Marathon winter tyres ordered from Germany on Friday.
Delivered this afternoon.
Bike24.
Sorted.
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My bike technician has just put my tyres on :-*.
The noise they made pushing them down the path to the shed made me wince. I suspect my first ride on them will be one of woosiness....
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Marathon winter tyres ordered from Germany on Friday.
Delivered this afternoon.
Bike24.
Sorted.
Any idea if my bank (Natwest) will charge me a fee (buying with a debit card) given that it's a 'foreign' company. I've had a google but can only find info regarding buying stuff whilst actually abroad. ???
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Marathon winter tyres ordered from Germany on Friday.
Delivered this afternoon.
Bike24.
Sorted.
Any idea if my bank (Natwest) will charge me a fee (buying with a debit card) given that it's a 'foreign' company. I've had a google but can only find info regarding buying stuff whilst actually abroad. ???
I bought on a credit card. No such issue.
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Any idea if my bank (Natwest) will charge me a fee (buying with a debit card) given that it's a 'foreign' company. I've had a google but can only find info regarding buying stuff whilst actually abroad. ???
IIRC I bought my prop stand direct from Hebie using my Maestro debit card without any problem. YMMV.
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The "fee" will be hidden within the exchange rate. The actual exchange rate used is the commercial rate, which is FAR more attractive than the tourist rate you get for notes in the bank. But then they charge a commission (a % of the transaction value) and a fee (a fixed sum). With small transactions the fee can make the "exchange rate" unattractive, but on larger transactions it's still better than the tourist rate. This is why I always draw foreign cash from an ATM when I arrive rather than change to foreign money before I go.
Until recently Nationwide charged neither the commission nor the fee on foreign currency transactions on either credit or debit cards. Then they started charging on non-Euro transactions, now they charge on all. At the moment (I think) the Post Office credit card is free of these charges, and I think (but it needs checking) that the new Sainsburys credit card is similarly free of foreign currency charges.
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My bike technician has just put my tyres on :-*.
The noise they made pushing them down the path to the shed made me wince. I suspect my first ride on them will be one of woosiness....
Love that sound - It is like a dog with far too long toenails skitting across a marble floor.
Have fun. You'll really notice the difference.
..d
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Bought a pair of Marathon Winter's after all the snow at the start of the year so they've been sitting around the house for month.
Got the original Ridgeback wheels back out of the loft and fitted them last week.
Put the current cassette (worn) on last night so it's matched with the chain.
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f31/leggyd/Bikes/L1010764.jpg)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f31/leggyd/Bikes/L1010765a.jpg)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f31/leggyd/Bikes/L1010766a.jpg)
The whole bike now weighs about twice what it did before!
I forgot to swap the wheel magnet over so no idea how many miles I did yesterday on damp tarmac but must have been about 15.
As others have said, the noise is brilliant. Sounded like a swarm of bees popping bubble wrap ;D
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The whole bike now weighs about twice what it did before!
I would say IKWYM, but my bike weighs a ton anyway (it usually wears M+ during the spring/summer/autumn).
I'm thinking of saving about a kilogramme and swapping the Marathon Winter tyres for Marathon Racers instead when Spring is Sprung again.
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The forecast here is now for no snow, so my DIY spikes will have to wait a while.
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My regular commuter bike is a skinny little fixed gear track frame with 622-25 Gatorskins. Should I bother putting tougher tires on it if faced by London Snow, or should I pull out a heavier bike?
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A MTB with low pressure knobblies will cope better than a roadie in snow. Stability is a factor. I'm going to use my rigid frame MTB rather than my hybrid.
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(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6k-wLqmhRSk/TOqWvp0H7MI/AAAAAAAAEWA/3z2fYmrgG5c/s1600/DSCF0475+rsz.jpg)
As fitted to my winter trike
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_6k-wLqmhRSk/TOqWjCczu8I/AAAAAAAAEV8/wk68oIn6RDM/s1600/DSCF0474+rsz.jpg)
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Flippin eck! That's the vehicle for winter.
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The snow here in Finland is a foot deep, and unlikely to go away until March 2011. I love the fact that lil' ol' ladies ride around on their single speed step through shopper bicycles the whole year. Just noticed the studded tyres on the way home from the pub this evening. I had been wondering how they got the coaster brakes to work. :)
s.
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Although there is no snow yet here, I rode the 22 mile round trip to work on my new winter machine. I had the tyres up to 70psi and they rolled pretty well. They did manage to loose 4 studs though - lets just hope that isn't a trend.
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M Winter now fitted. Must get up early enough in the morning to be able to use them.
I've left the mudguards on for now - had to adjust them a bit to increase the clearance but there's room. I'll take them off if I have to ride in proper snow though.
d.
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Two texts just came in. One from Crusty, who has arrived without incident after riding to work on my new winter studded tyres.
And one from Obidiah, who is still sitting in traffic, having taken an hour to travel a mile in his car, and is still in Toytown. He saw Crusty go past on the cycle path an hour ago. Obidiah is in his car.
Oh yes. 8)
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Sounded like a swarm of bees popping bubble wrap ;D
I couldn't get this image out of my head as I rode in this morning.
You can really feel the weight of them, can't you? My 13km journey took nearly five minutes longer than usual. :P
No ice or snow down in east Kent yet, but the tyres should be properly run in by the time it hits.
d.
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*wants trike*
I rode mine to work today for the first time. It was in proper snow. I can't say I feel very confident on the things, they seem to be fine on slush with black road underneath but rather slippery on hard packed white stuff, which is not really what I was hoping for.
I got off and pushed 3 times on the way in and can't say I'm particularly looking forward to going down the big hill on the way home :-[
Yes, I am a woose.
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*wants trike*
I rode mine to work today for the first time. It was in proper snow. I can't say I feel very confident on the things, they seem to be fine on slush with black road underneath but rather slippery on hard packed white stuff, which is not really what I was hoping for.
I got off and pushed 3 times on the way in and can't say I'm particularly looking forward to going down the big hill on the way home :-[
Yes, I am a woose.
What tyre pressure were you running them at? They should be like riding on mud on white stuff.
..d
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*wants trike*
I rode mine to work today for the first time. It was in proper snow. I can't say I feel very confident on the things, they seem to be fine on slush with black road underneath but rather slippery on hard packed white stuff, which is not really what I was hoping for.
I got off and pushed 3 times on the way in and can't say I'm particularly looking forward to going down the big hill on the way home :-[
Yes, I am a woose.
Go and ride a bit more.
On my DIY ones last year I was very tentative on the white stuff.
By the end of the week I had learned how they worked, the different handling characteristics between snow, compressed snow, ice, slush, and was quite happy pulling wheelies and stoppies accordingly.
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I dunno what riding on mud is like :-[ I'm an on-road kinda gal.
I pumped them up to 60psi on Tuesday night, the max listed was 70psi.
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they are pretty good here to clean roads & bikepaths,so I find very little use for studded tyres.
But there are still snow when I meet early in the morning, so I've decided to order a pair of
Continental TopContact winter II (http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/bicycle/themes/city/citytyres/TopContactWinter/topContactWinter_en.html).
I will write a review when I've used them some time.
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The wheels with the studded tyres went on the commuter bike this morning. ;D
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I dunno what riding on mud is like :-[ I'm an on-road kinda gal.
I pumped them up to 60psi on Tuesday night, the max listed was 70psi.
According to 'mericans who ride on these a lot, you need to drop the pressure to get the spikes to bite. Try dropping the pressure to 55psi
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If their maximum pressure is 70 psi, I'd drop them a lot more, depending on your conditions. Looking around the web, some people will drop studded tyres as low as 5 psi, but this seems to be for thick snow, and clearly there are issues with keeping the tyres reliably on the rims when that low. There's even discussion about gluing the tyres onto the rims to stop them coming off with those sort of pressures.
I think I'd aim for 30-40psi initially, and if that wasn't enough drop a bit more out. With lower pressure the tyres will "squish" a bit more, and the contact patch will be greater, so you'll have more grip (more studs are likely to be in contact with the ground as well). The downside will obviously be that the rolling resistance will also be significantly higher, but that's the nature of the beast, you can't have one without the other.
The maximum pressure for not terribly aggressive studded tyres (ie those meant for some road use) are typically the pressure you use them at with clear roads. You're expected to drop the pressure as conditions worsen.
The flip side is clearly not to drop them too much, since you'll make the ride a bit iffy, and risk the tyres coming off or getting a pinch puncture. With thick snow pinch punctures won't be an issue, but if there's some snow, and some clear tarmac then obviously you'll have to use a compromise pressure.
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I'm thinking I might need to get a third set of tyres - some big balloon type ones with massive tread, for riding through thick snow. The studded ones didn't cope so well with that (although clearly a lot better than normal tyres).
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Loose snow doesn't bother me so much; it's the ice (especially unexpected patches) and the packed snow that do. Being harder, ice would make you more prone to pinches, so I will probably want to run at a higher pressure (partly because I don't want to be, er, glacially slow getting to work).
Thinking back, last winter there were several days where the majority of my commute was just fine, but our street & the adjacent ones were barely passable by bike. So I do need to compromise.
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I'm thinking I might need to get a third set of tyres - some big balloon type ones with massive tread, for riding through thick snow. The studded ones didn't cope so well with that (although clearly a lot better than normal tyres).
This is why I used chunky MTB tyres for my DIY ones.
I always had good traction in snow, only suffering on polished compacted snow, and ice. The screws I added closed that loophole and gave me good all round riding.
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Once my studded tyres arrive (tomorrow hopefully) I'll have three bikes setup for the winter:
64/67" fixed road bike with 28mm 'normal' tyres
55/61" fixed road bike with 35mm studded tyres
46" SS MTB with 2.4/2.1" knobblies
:thumbsup:
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If you look at websites like Peter White Cycles (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.asp), different types of tyres are necessary for different sorts of conditions.
Clearly thick off road snow is quite different to packed icy snow on roads, and the tyres recommended for those situations are also different. Of course, in the UK (at least the more southerly bits), we end up with mixtures of conditions, so we tend to want tyres with a bit of tread and some studs, which is capacble of dealing with most stuff.
If got a couple of different tyres, some 700C Nokian Hakkapeliittas for use on the Kaffenback (my normal commuter), and some 26" Schwalbe Marathon Winters to use on the snow bike (which has no mudguards for greater snow clearance). If we do get some snow for a while, I'll have a chance to experiment and see how well they both work.
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i tryed to order some 20" tyres from the german site this evening but could not pay be card . the only option given was a money order :o ???. does anyone know where i can order a 406 iso studded tyre and pay buy card ? :)
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I assume you mean the Marathon Winters in 42-406, since 20" studded tyres are pretty damned rare (but there are several different ETRTO rim dimensions which are all described as 20").
You could always try Peter White Cycles in the USA, but you'll have to ring them up, or email the order through. They don't really do online ordering as such.
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I just had a delivery of some studded schwalbe tyres from UKbikestore.. bring on the sno!
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This morning I dropped the pressure to 45psi. Very gingerly got over the icy x-road of death by The Igloo and then bottled the bend on the hill just after. Other than that it was pretty much tarmac all the way until the wee road my work is on. Whereupon I went 'ooh-ah-whoa!' a couple of times, panicked and fell orff. :-[
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This morning I dropped the pressure to 45psi. Very gingerly got over the icy x-road of death by The Igloo and then bottled the bend on the hill just after. Other than that it was pretty much tarmac all the way until the wee road my work is on. Whereupon I went 'ooh-ah-whoa!' a couple of times, panicked and fell orff. :-[
Oh, dear! Hope you weren't hurt?
I'm running mine at about 30psi
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I'm fine thanks :)
If it's going to be like this all weekend and therefore precluding any sensible forms of exercise I might have a play on the cul de sac and then Pingu can tell me where I'm going all wrong ;)
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Hmm - you don't do mountain biking, do you?
Riding in snow is more like offroad. Road riders grab loads of front brake - that results in losing front wheel on slippery surfaces. Grab rear brake first.
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Noted, but when I've been having my 'moments' I've not been braking (I don't think so anyway). Certainly not when I fell off as I was going slightly uphill.
(And bloody hell, I noticed the extra resistance when I was going up the big hill this morning, my legs were killing me!)
Just read the Winter Biking wikipedia page. It was quite interesting, but quite how you train yourself not to lean into turns at all I'm not sure!
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Glad you're ok.
.... and then Pingu can tell me where I'm going all wrong ;)
Hhhmmm....
... Very gingerly ... and then bottled the bend on the hill just after. .... Whereupon I went 'ooh-ah-whoa!' a couple of times, panicked and fell orff. :-[
Forgive me for pointing out a few phrases there, but it sounds to me as though you've got the hardest lesson to learn. Relax! The main reason for falling off on mud/snow/loose surface is getting tense, stiffening up the muscles, and thus affecting the bike.
For example, if you can learn on a rough surface to ride whilst just touching the bars with your fingertips, you'll see the bike skittering around but under full control. Grab the bars tensely and you'll prevent the natural rhythms and as a result the wheels will jitter/slide. (You do need to hold the bars though, because any big knock will affect the steering).
Over the years I've trained myself to relax so much that now often I only realise the bike's slid wide on mud is AFTER I've corrected it. If I'd flinched during the slide then that could have led to those motions going down through the bike and forcing more of a loss of traction.
It's the wrong time of year to learn, but maybe next year buy n+1 and go play in the mud? Learn to lock the back wheel and control the slide (bonus points for a 360). I once got to the level of even managing to lock the front at one point of the slide to get it really going, then recover - but due to lack of practice now think I'd go AoT :$
But get that handling practiced, and it will play dividends next year. (I also found it handy the day I put too much power into the motorbike by accident and powerslid it round the corner)
Short term though, hard as it is, focus on the relaxing of your whole body while riding.
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Agreed, I am as nervous as a cat in a room full of rocking chairs.
And on that note, I'm going to bugger off early and try to relax. Gin & tonic anyone? ;)
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Ice and slice for me please :thumbsup:
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They aren't good on smooth stone or tiles.
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*wants trike*
Be careful what you wish for. Trikes don't fall over, but mine doesn't steer or stop on ice.
Which is fun, sometimes.
*wants three more studded tyres"
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What size are these Conti Nordic Spikes, about a 42c?
http://www.ukbikestore.co.uk/product/139/tyc25623/continental-nordic-spike-28-x-16---120-studs.html (http://www.ukbikestore.co.uk/product/139/tyc25623/continental-nordic-spike-28-x-16---120-studs.html)
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About that, yes.
Tire Sizing Systems (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html)
28 x decimal is the Northern European designation for 622mm (700C) tyres.
It'll need a rim with internal width 19mm-23mm.
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Too big then, I'll stick to Marathon Winters in 35.
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Fitted my Marathon Winters this afternoon. Easy enough to get on but bloody hell they're heavy. Make a great noise on dry Tarmac though. :thumbsup:
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Using the tyres & having great fun, several roads not passable to cars but good grip with the trike.
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/21674428@N07/5215503244/)
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/21674428@N07/5215495198/)
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I just put the Winter Marathons onto Vince, which was a doddle. I've always heard nasty things about Marathon tyres being difficult to get onto rims, but I've never had any problems with the Marathon Supremes and Winters that I've used.
I just need to pump them up, adjust the front light mount, and I'll take it out for a quick spin, although it's going to be a bit slow, since it's only a 52" gear!
So far we haven't really had anything that needs studded tyres in London, but with the current forecast I didn't think it would be a bad idea to be ready.
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I went out this afternoon for a couple of miles through varying snow, slush and ice. The Marathon Winters handled themselves well. In fresh 4" deep snow they were just like normal mtb tyres. They were sure footed on slushy roads and hard-pack snow - I could feel the studs biting - but on snow that had been driven on but wasn't too hard packed, I had a couple of 'interesting' moments. This type of snow wasn't firm enough for the studs to bite and it had a tendency to give and cause the wheels to dig in. T'was good fun though.
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On clear tarmac the Marathon Winters are a bit noisy, with four lines of studs, the inner two are going to be hitting the road most of the time. I guess in busier London traffic the noise won't be so noticeable, but on empty roads on a Sunday evening it seemed to make a helluva racket!
Anyway I'm ready for anything now, bring on the snow!
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I just put the Winter Marathons onto Vince, which was a doddle. I've always heard nasty things about Marathon tyres being difficult to get onto rims, but I've never had any problems with the Marathon Supremes and Winters that I've used.
I'm fairly sure that's only really a feature of the Marathon Plus. I've never had a problem with normal non-plus Marathons of various sizes on various rims, and Marathon Cross knobblies are dead easy. I've seen Marathon Pluses be a right bastard, though, to the point where for the sort of riding I tend to do, I reckon it's well worth trading some puncture-resistance for ease of fitting.
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Rode in to work on the Marathon Winters this morning - 15 miles with about 4 miles of ungritted, icy roads. No problem at all other than it taking 10 minutes longer than normal. Some of that will be down to a heavier bike and changing the the gear from 68" to 62" but some of it must due to the weight of the tyres - they're three times heavier than the bontrager RXL tyres on the other bike.
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*drums fingers*
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Still waiting for Wibble to deliver?
They *used* to be reliable.
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I rode home after a big snow storm. Horrible roads. Lumps of slimy ice with free-rolling slush over them. A few slidy moments but the tyres held. I lost my nerve at several points though and walked on the pavement. It's too much like hard work riding in 7 inch deep snow.
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In 7" snow, carbide studs aren't going to make any difference. In those conditions you really want something more like a mountain bike tyre, with lots of grip, rather than smoother commuting type tyres.
Studs may be useful if you have ice as well as that, and you can get tyres which will do both, like the Nokian Extreme 294s, but they cost $100 each from Peter White Cycles in the USA, so even if they're available from a European supplier, I would imagine that they're pretty damned expensive.
You're only going to go that route if you regularly hit thick snow, so I suspect your "get off and walk" approach is the most appropriate!
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Studs may be useful if you have ice as well as that, and you can get tyres which will do both, like the Nokian Extreme 294s, but they cost $100 each from Peter White Cycles in the USA, so even if they're available from a European supplier, I would imagine that they're pretty damned expensive.
The Schwalbe Ice Spiker fits the bill, but at £42 each (ChainReaction), I'm not sure they are justifiable for UK riding. Maybe off-roading in the Cairngorms.
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Studs may be useful if you have ice as well as that, and you can get tyres which will do both, like the Nokian Extreme 294s, but they cost $100 each from Peter White Cycles in the USA, so even if they're available from a European supplier, I would imagine that they're pretty damned expensive.
Marathon Winter's have reasonable sized knobblies. They're not just studs on a city tyre.
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/images/products/tires/swlwinter2.jpg
I'm not that worried, we never get deep snow here in London.
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Yep. I was quite jealous of the full-suspension mountain bike that sped past me on the pavement. I tried following his tyre track but the wheels/chainset/brakes/guards just got clogged.
That was the only other bike I saw this morning, except for a little kid on a BMX. He was loving it!
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the wheels/chainset/brakes/guards just got clogged.
And that's the reason why I didn't ride in today. I can cope without studs, I can't cope with grinding away with wheels nearly jammed solid.
The 'other bike' has 1" clearances.
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Trust me, riding home in that was a one-off. ;D I'm daft but not stupid. The studs were intended to cope with the kind of unexpected black ice that led to my broken ribs a couple of years ago. Not The Day After Tomorrow!
Crusty doesn't get a lift to work any more so we need the two-wheeled winter vehicle as backup. It's no use sat in a bike locker six miles away.
It would've taken a lot longer to walk the bike home, no way I'd have chanced riding on the road with normal tyres this morning. Very useful indeed on the icy road. No use at all on the snowy pavement.
I thought I'd have a chance to get to know these tyres before using them in anger, in rush hour, in the snow. I didn't even get the chance to wear them in, which was my plan. A couple of studs missing now. Ah, well.
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I have yet to fit my Nokians (for various reasons). At the moment it is soft snow so just riding on reduced pressure with knobblies is fine.
Probably fit them tonight.
..d
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Fitted my Marathon Winters this afternoon. Easy enough to get on but bloody hell they're heavy. Make a great noise on dry Tarmac though. :thumbsup:
This means you are the winner. No sign of mine from starbike as yet
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Studs may be useful if you have ice as well as that, and you can get tyres which will do both, like the Nokian Extreme 294s, but they cost $100 each from Peter White Cycles in the USA, so even if they're available from a European supplier, I would imagine that they're pretty damned expensive.
Marathon Winter's have reasonable sized knobblies. They're not just studs on a city tyre.
Yes, I've got a pair fitted to Vince, who is the snow bike. I have not got any mudguards on him, so there's a lot more clearance. I do have a Topeak rack on the back (for a pannier), which has a plate across the top, which should stop some crud hitting me.
Failing that, the Kaffenback will be fitted with Nokian Hakkapeliitta W106s, which also have some knobs, or a lot more than the Schwalbe Marathon Supremes that I normally use for commuting!
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Ordered some Schwalbe snow studs from Bike24 on Weds night, dispatched Fri and according to tracking on DHL website they were processed at Gatwick at 5:30pm tonight.
Hoping they get here tomorrow as parking at work sucks when it's snowy/icy and I'd rather cycle.
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I ordered my Marathon Winters on Wednesday morning from Bike24 and they arrived today. Just fitted them and pootled up and down the front street; they sound like I'm constantly riding on gravel.
Expect unseasonally warm weather from now on ... ::-)
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Am hoping with the central track being free of studs on the Snow Stud tyres that it shouldn't be too noisy when running at full pressure.
Expect to use the MTB on many days that I'd prob get away with on the road bike as I am prone to being overcautious.
Of course I may find that the MTB is too slow and heavy, I should maybe have tried a commute on it with knobblies before buying new tyres but is done now.
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Spent this evening searching for 700c snow tyres. These are the cheapest I could find that are actually in stock - note limited availability:
Buy Kenda ATB spike tyre Klondike K-1014 online (http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/kenda-atb-spike-reifen-klondike-k-1014)
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How much more room do these Marathon Winters in 35c take up compared to an unstudded 35c tyre? If any?
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I don't have to adjust my mudguards at all, and on the normal Marathons, the tyre at the rear is less than 1 cm off the mudguard. It looks like it's only an extra 2 mm or so, due to the studs.
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Thanks, think I'll get away with it then without doing anything with the guards.
Mine are winging their way towards me from German Ebay.
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Well SnowStuds now fitted and briefly tested, albeit only on freshish snow rather than any packed snow/ice..
First impressions are good particularly as I haven't given them a proper bedding-in on bare tarmac. Can lock both wheels but they seem to skid in a straight line rather than trying to go sideways (though I've not been brave enough yet to try locking the wheel whilst cornering) and releasing the brake immediately regains traction.
Hard to say how much slower/hard work it's going to be due to the tyres tomorrow as I'm used to commuting on a road bike rather than the MTB so some of the slowness will be the different bike and some will be the tyres.
Well the test was fun at any rate and now I ought to go find a billion layers to hang on radiators ready for the morning ;D
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I noticed this evening that I've lost two studs from the front tyre. I don't think I can afford to continue to lose studs at this rate. Someone please tell me that won't happen.
Is there anything you can do to make stud loss less likely?
d.
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Back in February I lost a couple of studs straight away, but haven't spotted any more going since (and I was running them all last week).
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The loss rate won't be linear, imperfectly anchored studs will be lost early on, properly anchored studs will (mostly) remain in place for the life of the tyre.
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... Can lock both wheels but they seem to skid in a straight line rather than trying to go sideways (though I've not been brave enough yet to try locking the wheel whilst cornering) and releasing the brake immediately regains traction. ...
Locking the wheels and skidding studded tyres (I'm assuming not on snow) is a pretty good way to loose studs.
Is there anything you can do to make stud loss less likely?
Not cycle on them? ;D
Some stud loss is inevitable, you'll get some initially, and more when the tyres are old and worn out.
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It seems that, if you order from Wiggle, your stud loss is minimised by not delivering the tyres ::-)
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imperfectly anchored studs will be lost early on, properly anchored studs will (mostly) remain in place for the life of the tyre.
OK, thanks, that makes sense. I thought it might be something to do with the way you ride on them, but that would be pretty shoddy design if it were the case.
I'll try to avoid locking the wheels and skidding on them though.
d.
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It seems that, if you order from Wiggle, your stud loss is minimised by not delivering the tyres ::-)
After badgering them, they advise that the current expected delivery is mid-December.
I should have them fitted in time for summer.
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Mine arrived from starbike in germany yesterday.
Just went for a spin on them on dry roads
They are huge and feel like hard work..but on the plus side quite comfy. A bit like MTB tyres
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I should have them fitted in time for summer.
Seems about right. I ordered mine from Starbike in February and got them by the end of April, IIRC, by which time the snow had all gone.
d.
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The last time I bought a pair of Hakkapeliitas, I put my name on the waiting list at Peter White Cycles (the one mentioned in this thread) in May, and got them in October.
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I think I got my Hakkapeliitas (W106s) from Bike24, but a quick check seems to suggest they don't stock them any more. Bike Components.de (http://www.bike-components.de/products/info/p6004_Hakkapelitta-W106-Spikes-Drahtreifen-.html) do, and probably deliver in much the same time (I'd guess a week or so for standard delivery).
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I think I got my Hakkapeliitas (W106s) from Bike24, but a quick check seems to suggest they don't stock them any more. Bike Components.de (http://www.bike-components.de/products/info/p6004_Hakkapelitta-W106-Spikes-Drahtreifen-.html) do, and probably deliver in much the same time (I'd guess a week or so for standard delivery).
Bike components are cheaper, but won't take credit cards, so you need to authorise a bank transfer. For me that would cost £9, so I cancelled and ordered from Bike24, who sent me an e-mail today to say they have dispatched my tyres (Marathon Winters) today. So a 24 hour turnaround, I'll let you know when they arrive.
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... Can lock both wheels but they seem to skid in a straight line rather than trying to go sideways (though I've not been brave enough yet to try locking the wheel whilst cornering) and releasing the brake immediately regains traction. ...
Locking the wheels and skidding studded tyres (I'm assuming not on snow) is a pretty good way to loose studs.
Yeah not planning on doing it a lot, was just a couple v quick tests to see how much braking resulted in a lock, only a brief skid (and no I don't mean a skid in my briefs :D).
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How fast can you safely do on these tyres?
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How fast can you safely do on these tyres?
I'm sure a good bike handler or an experienced off-road rider could go flat out.
Someone like me finds them twitchy. The grip is good, but not quite 100% and mine have a tendency to slip down the camber and into the lowest rut. I go pretty slowly down hills on them.
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Took the mercian for a spin up and down our road (6" of snow on top of ice). Np whatsoever. 1.5" paselas at 60psi.
You know, I think frame geometry matters as much as the tyres.
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How fast can you safely do on these tyres?
I hit a max speed on my commute today of 49.6km/h according to my computer. That would have been coasting down the hill into town this morning. I would normally go much faster than that coasting down the same hill on slicks, so there's obviously a lot of rolling resistance.
But the road was clear this morning. I was a bit more circumspect on the icy roads on the way home this evening and took it much slower. I reckon that in some places I could have safely gone a lot faster than I did, but I wasn't taking any chances. I reckon my max speed would have been around 35km/h, which felt quite fast enough in the circumstances. Average speed was 18km/h.
d.
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You know, I think frame geometry matters as much as the tyres.
I know what you mean (maybe overstating the point slightly, mind)
I've been riding the MTB (a frame I deliberately chose for technical off-roading when I was buying it, not efficient XC pedalling) and have far more confidence than any of my other bikes partly due to position. I know that minor slips and skiddages are easily handleable on that bike, so relax more and am much more comfortable taking it out.
Of course you can choose both tyres and geometry, obviously...
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Of course you can choose both tyres and geometry, obviously...
Yeah, that might be ideal.
If I'd had studded tyres on this morn, I think I might have given up and gone home.
I did manage 20 yards of no-hands riding on our street last night - in about 8" of snow with wheel ruts. The Mercian is amazing.
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I fitted mine a (Schwalbe Snow) couple of mornings ago - bought them from the LBS last December.
The are 26" and I fit them to the Thorn. I have had to remove the rear mudguard and have the front mudguard as far from the wheel as possible. I reckon that if I had the Thorn Raven Tour, as opposed to the Sport Tour, I would probably be able to fit them with mudguards front and back because the recommended tyre for the Tour is 26*1.75 compared to 26*1.5 for the Sport Tour.
The "moulding fibres" around the outside of the tyre still brush the stays, but I would imagine that they will get worn off pretty soon.
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Right I need to make some ice studded tires but the only spares I have is Miche Pro Race twos which I'm guessing aren't much use.
So recommend me a cheap pair of 700c upto 32mm tires that will be good on snow but also suitable for DIY studded using nutty's method? Currently looking at the Schwalbe CX Pro Road Cyclocross Tyre, any good?
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Just a brief thanks to all the visionaries in this thread: I was inspired to have a go myself with an old tyre, some screws and oodles of gaffa/duck/duct tape. The results on this morning’s commute were both amazing and hilarious. Haven’t had such a big grin on my face for quite some time – thank you all! :D :thumbsup:
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I've done a blog, innit:
Fun in the snow « Work, Lovelife, Miscellaneous (http://worklovemisc.wordpress.com/2010/12/02/fun-in-the-snow/)
d.
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That's a great piece, C! :thumbsup:
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It seems that, if you order from Wiggle, your stud loss is minimised by not delivering the tyres ::-)
After badgering them, they advise that the current expected delivery is mid-December.
I should have them fitted in time for summer.
I had my first ride today on a pair of Hakkapeliitta W240s which were ordered from cyclecomponents.se last time it snowed... in January. They arrived about a week after the snow had gone. Probably due to the total paralysis of this country when it snows rather than the nice Swedish people being slow.
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It seems that, if you order from Wiggle, your stud loss is minimised by not delivering the tyres ::-)
After badgering them, they advise that the current expected delivery is mid-December.
I should have them fitted in time for summer.
I had my first ride today on a pair of Hakkapeliitta W240s which were ordered from cyclecomponents.se last time it snowed... in January. They arrived about a week after the snow had gone. Probably due to the total paralysis of this country when it snows rather than the nice Swedish people being slow.
I ordered some Schwalbe winter studded tyres two weeks ago and they are still on back order and couldn't find a UK stock for Nokians
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I've done a blog, innit:
Fun in the snow « Work, Lovelife, Miscellaneous (http://worklovemisc.wordpress.com/2010/12/02/fun-in-the-snow/)
d.
Nice one. :thumbsup:
I shall be recommending that as an introduction to how riding on these things feels for people new to them!
Pedantic editorial comment: aren't those 700c tyres? In which case, I believe, its 240 spikes (you get 200 on the 26" marathon winter).
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Thanks, Oaky. You're right - 240 spikes on the 700C. I was going by memory rather than checking the Schwalbe website.
d.
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Do these Marathon Winters have the same p_ resistance as the normal Marathon Plus?
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Had my first outing today on the marathon winters. They felt that sure that I went nearly all the way up to the Baraque Michel, untill abt. 550m altitude. Then turned richt to Jalhay which was a very tricky descent, even on studded tyres. Old snow had frozen to lengthwise ruts and was covered by new snow. Still managed to stay upright but couldn't descend any faster as 25km/h. The rest to Spa was quite ok. Didn't fancy riding the long way round via Liege in the dark so took a train from there on. Quite a lot of people on the train ware very surprised that wintertyres for bikes exist. Saw some lunatics in cars with summer tyres trying to go up to the Baraque Michel, sliding everywhere and blocking the traffic for the saner cardrivers.
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Do these Marathon Winters have the same p_ resistance as the normal Marathon Plus?
I can't say for sure. I guess I've ridden approx 600 miles on the Marathon Winter tyres and 2,500 or so on the M+ so far - no punctures with either yet. :)
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Snow's gone so not worth getting any now. You can remind me I said that...
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Snow's gone so not worth getting any now. You can remind me I said that...
Maybe for you. I don't expect the snow to disappear in the Hautes Fagnes somewhere before end of february. Studded tyres might even be useful when I'm routechecking my 200 (at least last year they would have been).
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Snow's gone so not worth getting any now. You can remind me I said that...
You're right of course - I've just fitted mine, so that should see off the ice for a bit.
(from bike24 in about 7 days)
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Snow's gone so not worth getting any now. You can remind me I said that...
Course it has.. My nicely snow free street this afternoon.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5165/5235533824_9d553c5910_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidmam/5235533824/)
Snow (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidmam/5235533824/) by davidmamartin (http://www.flickr.com/people/davidmam/), on Flickr
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Last week was fine becaue all of my commute was icy. However, most of the roads are fine now. So do I use studs for the journey, and ride ten miles on clear roads... or take the normal hybrid and walk a mile to get to teh main road.
Hmmmm.
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Take the studs. ajut acept it will be slower on the clear bits and you won't be cursing pushing the bike.
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Snow's gone so not worth getting any now. You can remind me I said that...
Studs are more important now than a couple of days ago.
Now, you are riding along, pass through the shadow of a tree, and it's a (potential) instant splat on the overnight ice that hasn't melted.
Yesterday on the snow, it may be a case of a bit of floundering and poor progress, but at least you were unlikely to end up in casualty with a broken hip.
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And that, andrew_s, is exactly why I got mine in the first place. Definitely sticking with them for now, even though the snow has all gone round here.
d.
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Same here. I can see the snow; it's the mornings when the weird fens weather produces black ice on shady corners which I'm hoping to protect against.
They didn't seem too slow, and the crunchy crisp noise seemed to reduce a bit within 10k; that or my hearing did.
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They didn't seem too slow, and the crunchy crisp noise seemed to reduce a bit within 10k; that or my hearing did.
They are a lot quieter running on a thin skin of ice than on dry tarmac. If the noise comes and goes, you might like to take more care on the quiet bits.
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Take the studs. ajut acept it will be slower on the clear bits and you won't be cursing pushing the bike.
:thumbsup:
That's what I did, and I'm pleased. Some of the "clear" side roads were wickedly slippy.
I think I need to drop my saddle, it seems very high when I'm standing on the pedals or wobbling around.
I wish I'd done some summer off-roading - my bike-handling is very poor on anything less than tarmac.
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The other trick is to try to not lean the bike to steer (roadie style) but to actively steer it with the handlebars, keeping ht ebike upright and moving your weight to balance.
..d
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The other trick is to try to not lean the bike to steer (roadie style) but to actively steer it with the handlebars, keeping ht ebike upright and moving your weight to balance.
(Anyone wanting to start the whole 'countersteering and how you actually steer' stuff can they do it in a new thread, please don't clog up yet another thread with that stuff.)
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Snow's gone so not worth getting any now. You can remind me I said that...
Studs are more important now than a couple of days ago.
Now, you are riding along, pass through the shadow of a tree, and it's a (potential) instant splat on the overnight ice that hasn't melted.
Yesterday on the snow, it may be a case of a bit of floundering and poor progress, but at least you were unlikely to end up in casualty with a broken hip.
Very true.
Last year, I was constantly having little slips sideways. This is now the third week I've been on the studs. With a rural commute, the little lanes are covered in patches of ice, and it's just not worth the risk.
I'll keep them on the bike until it looks like there's at least a week's worth of temperatures above freezing.
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My Marathon Winters have arrived. God they are heavy ;D
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I still haven't managed to build my On-One for my winter tyres. Therefore I am still on my normal fixed with regular Marathons.
However, round here, there has been little snow and the roads aren't bad. I'm still in "when should I use winter tyres?" mode.
I take peoples' point about broken hips, but I'm also aware that it could be cold for a good chunk of the year, and on a bike I'm only at walking height. Should I also avoid walking?
I'll still be building up the On-One as soon as I can though, ready for the next cold snap.
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Should I also avoid walking?
Yes.
Unless you use an equivalent "winter tyre" on your shoes. Like this one for example -
IceGripper Pull On Ice Grip - Stud Traction / IceGripper Pull On Ice Grip - Icegripper
(http://www.icegripper.co.uk/store/stud-traction/icegripper-pull-on-ice-grip)
Oh - I see that due to high demand they're out of stock at the moment. Sounds familiar! ::-) ;D
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Marathon Winters: is it ok to have these in a figure-of-eight for a short time for the ride home, or could that kink the bead? They arrived form Germany un-folded in a huuuge box.
In answer to my own query above about p_ resistance, I see they are marked as having a Kevlar layer as per, I assume, the normal M Plus. Which is good, because after examining them I really do not want to fix any on road visits with these things. I'm fairly sure I've owned wheels that weigh less than these tyres :) The studs do seem to be impressively well attached.
Weather: please desist for two further days. Then snow+++. Thanks.
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Marathon Winters: is it ok to have these in a figure-of-eight for a short time for the ride home, or could that kink the bead? They arrived form Germany un-folded in a huuuge box.
My Schwalbe Snow Studs turned up flattened/folded in half :o
Bit of a kink in the bead but wasn't too sharp an angle (before I bent them back) so I think I'm alright.
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Mine arrived folded last winter. The bead area looked a bit squished, but once on the rims they're fine.
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Should I also avoid walking?
Yes.
Unless you use an equivalent "winter tyre" on your shoes. Like this one for example -
IceGripper Pull On Ice Grip - Stud Traction / IceGripper Pull On Ice Grip - Icegripper
(http://www.icegripper.co.uk/store/stud-traction/icegripper-pull-on-ice-grip)
Oh - I see that due to high demand they're out of stock at the moment. Sounds familiar! ::-) ;D
Well ... yes-and-no. You can certainly fall on icy pavements - folks do break hips, wrists etc whilst walking. But it's not very common in the young and healthy.
It's much easier to land gracefully on foot, and because of your lower speed you are more likely to see and then avoid slippery patches (or moderate your speed, etc).
I had a low-speed off on ice in January, and no judo skills would have helped me. Luckily I was only doing 12mph approaching the tricky bit, so the damage wasn't serious - scraped bars/levers and a pulled muscle in the hip area. Even at 20mph it could have been much worse. People break hips etc just slipping on diesel in the summer.
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I take peoples' point about broken hips, but I'm also aware that it could be cold for a good chunk of the year, and on a bike I'm only at walking height. Should I also avoid walking?.
Dunno. Do you typically walk at 15~30mph?
I've come off a few times on black ice and happily not suffered any lasting physical damage, but what I have found is that it takes ages to get over the pyschological trauma of having your wheels suddenly disappear from underneath you. When it comes to taking corners and descending generally I'm a real scaredy cat nowadays. Mebbe it's a getting old thing.
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I take peoples' point about broken hips, but I'm also aware that it could be cold for a good chunk of the year, and on a bike I'm only at walking height. Should I also avoid walking?.
Dunno. Do you typically walk at 15~30mph?
No, but you fall from roughly the same height, horizontal velocity makes little difference on the magnitude of the initial impact with the ground, although moving at 15-30mph will tend to lead to subsequent injuries (from road rash all the way up to further broken limbs as you skid/slid/bounce to a halt).
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There may be an argument that moving a bit faster than walking pace would give you a less severe impact as the normal reaction to the surface is not back in the direction you are travelling from. You redirect the momentum rather than stop and reverse.
That is possibly why it is easier (less jarring) to run over small drops than it is to stop and jump down.
I do not intend to test this in a scientifically rigorous manner.
..d
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I think anyone suggesting they would rather fall off their bike at 30mph than at 5mph needs some sense knocked into them!
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I think anyone suggesting they would rather fall off their bike at 30mph than at 5mph needs some sense knocked into them!
Actually GB/MB have a point. It's all about having 'the right type of accident'. The last time I came off on black ice and indeed on my recent 'look no handlebars' escapade the bike slid from underneath me gracefully and my forward momentum considerably reduced the impact as I fell on my side,. On the black ice incident - when I definately was ticking along ~20mph - I continued to slide after hitting the ground along said black ice. During my 'look no handlebars' escapade I was very aware that the last thing I wanted to do was give the brakes a good tug as I'd have hit the ground real hard. Something for the risk compensation crew to ponder is that wearing a helmet or not doesn't have much affect on my riding style but I'm far more risk averse in the summer when I have lots of bare skin on show. Still, I'd rather come off at 20mph than 30mph, and ideally I wouldn't come off at all.
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I agree with Manotea that getting older is making me more cautious (at all times of year - I don't seem to enjoy descending as much as I did). However, Greenbank is right that forward momentum should not affect the vertical impact, except if you hit something that projects upward in some way.
I'm looking at those boot grips...
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I think anyone suggesting they would rather fall off their bike at 30mph than at 5mph needs some sense knocked into them!
That is exaggerating a little. 15mph versus 5mph maybe.
There is a sweet spot somewhere that I don't intend to try and find.
..d
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I agree with Manotea that getting older is making me more cautious (at all times of year - I don't seem to enjoy descending as much as I did). However, Greenbank is right that forward momentum should not affect the vertical impact, except if you hit something that projects upward in some way.
I'm looking at those boot grips...
Agreed absolutely. Approaching 60 I find that on foot I tread carefully even over frost whereas in my 20s I would cycle around in all weathers and over all surfaces without a problem and would thrash over patches that now make me hesitate. I only recall coming off on ice twice in all those years.
So how is it that 40 years ago we had no studded tyres or anything special yet club runs continued as normal, at least in the balmy south? I think the answer is that there was only a little motor traffic to compress the snow. The first time I really recall icy ruts caused by cars being a problem was in the 80s. Maybe the tyres we used made a difference. We would have been riding 27 by 1 1/4 at about 60 psi and the tyres themselves had more natural rubber than modern tyres (or so I believe).
Boot grips - I have some on order.
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I think anyone suggesting they would rather fall off their bike at 30mph than at 5mph needs some sense knocked into them!
That is exaggerating a little. 15mph versus 5mph maybe.
There is a sweet spot somewhere that I don't intend to try and find.
..d
I agree with that. I've seen some horrible crashes at nearly walking pace, most crashes which look spectacular but are harmless are at higher speeds, maybe 15-25mph. Of course on the precondition that the crashing rider hits no object while slowly loosing speed.
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Well I'm sorry, I only have a physics degree and am thus unable to understand these sophisticated arguments.[could we move onto something simpler, like whether spokes are ever compressed? ;) ]
I wish you all luck, in avoiding falls and minimising their effects :thumbsup:
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Oooh yes, lets argue over hubs standing on spokes! ;)
While I understand why people say that speed isn't very significant, I don't agree.
Imagine falling onto a surface with a coarse aggregate.
Because of how you are coming off your bike, your knee smacks into the surface, with the weight of your body behind it. Now, because the surface is rough, the flesh digs in and grips on the aggregate.
Imagine that same fall at 5mph, now at 30mph.
Which is going to cause the most damage?
On a completely flat, glass-smooth surface, I agree that the forward velocity won't make much difference. So my fall on Monday onto black ice didn't scuff my clothing, or leave a graze. But mostly we fall onto an irregular surface.
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So how is it that 40 years ago we had no studded tyres or anything special yet club runs continued as normal, at least in the balmy south?
I guess the availability1 of studded tyres means there's less of an imperative to learn such tricks as how to ride safely on icy roads these days. Or maybe we're all just more cautious these days - more cautious than we need to be, perhaps?
I was out on a club run one morning winter before last when we came to the top of a long, straight descent that was covered in thick ice. I got off and walked down the verge but one of my older, more experienced clubmates (now in his 60s) just whizzed straight down it. I was taken aback, but clearly he knew what he was doing. So there are still some riders out there who can manage to ride a bike without specialist equipment.
d.
1. FSVO "available" (cf Clarion)
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There may be an argument that moving a bit faster than walking pace would give you a less severe impact as the normal reaction to the surface is not back in the direction you are travelling from. You redirect the momentum rather than stop and reverse.
Isn't the normal reaction always normal to the surface, and unchanged regardless of any horizontal component?
I can see how the horizontal movement might reduce injury by causing you to roll, thus distributing the impact over more of your body.
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Doesn't look like Russell Downing needs spiked tyres...
http://plixi.com/p/61877496
d.
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Rather him than me!
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Rather him than me!
But you don't have a choice! ;)
d.
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:facepalm: d'Oh!
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Never tried studded tyres, but I do know the best all-nasty-conditions tyre I've used. Was simply what I had hung up, but the past few weeks (and the reviews I've read while looking for a second set) have convinced me that Maxxis Hard Drives 26x2.1 are excellent! I've found them more confidence-inspiring than anything I've ever used.
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Studded tyres on several inches of slush over unexpectedly hard frozen rutted bumpy ice with the addition of very poor bike skillz=the nearest I've come to an off since I was a kid! And now my leg hurts - not a lot, but a bit.
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I broke my hip at relatively low speed. Broke my ischium at even slower speed. it wasn't the impact with the ground that cause my hip to broken it was the fact I did not slide so my femour was thrush through my acetabulum
(http://www.mseries.plus.com/broken-pelvis.jpg)
(http://www.mseries.plus.com/pelvis1.jpg)
I might have slid more if I was going faster or it might have just pushed my femour further into my body and caused more serious damage such as damage to internal organs
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Speaking from experience of a serious crash, I'd rather not crash at all.
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Well first commute back on them today after getting a replacement wheel on.
I tell you what though, if I were to ride these tires uphill every day for a few months, I reckon I should be climbing like a mountain goat come the summer!
Talk about hard work.....
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:'( Not looking like I am going to get my studded tyres this winter even the European shops are nil stock until end of January, who the fek has them all?
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:'( Not looking like I am going to get my studded tyres this winter even the European shops are nil stock until end of January, who the fek has them all?
Bikes | Bike Parts | Cycling Clothing | MTB Road BMX| Dotbike
(http://www.dotbike.com) are saying they will have stock of Marathon Winter (both 26" and 700c) 22 December. It was a similar story last year when I bought mine. IIRC, they arrived in between Christmas and New Year last year.
Schwalbe Marathon Winter Performance Wire On Tyre - from £37.75 | Dotbike
(http://www.dotbike.com/ProductsP7596.aspx?utm_source%3dinternal%26utm_medium%3d11%26utm_campaign%3dDDI)
Good luck!
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HIBIKE in germany seems to still have both 700c and 26" studded tires.
http://www1.hibike.de/shop/catalog/tk/q/m-1/g452/Reifen-Trekking-City-draht.html (http://www1.hibike.de/shop/catalog/tk/q/m-1/g452/Reifen-Trekking-City-draht.html)
http://www1.hibike.de/shop/catalog/tk/q/m-1/g450/Reifen-MTB-draht.html (http://www1.hibike.de/shop/catalog/tk/q/m-1/g450/Reifen-MTB-draht.html)
But I think the will sell out very fast in this weather.
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already not available :(
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Loss leader. Was almost 50€ list price perhaps they only had a few at that price.
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If you can't get studded tyres use zip ties.One between each spoke gap with the fastening on opposite sides alternately and make sure the fastening doesn't touch the ground as you ride along but engages when you lean over. See the Edinburgh Bicycle newsletter for foties.
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Take the opportunity to fit disc brakes at the same time. :thumbsup:
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Take the opportunity to fit disc brakes at the same time. :thumbsup:
Oops!
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Used the ones I bought last year today, fitted yesterday to the MTB. The canal tow path was very quiet, very pretty, and great fun :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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trice , inspired cycle engineering have a few 20"/406iso marathon winter spiked tyre at the moment :).
we had a small fall of of snow here in slough this morning and so i fittted my new marathon siped tyre and have a nice little ride up to burnham beeches an the anthrotech. no wheel spin going up hill on sheet ice ;D :thumbsup:
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wiggle just emailed to say that my marathon winters are ready for dispatch :thumbsup:
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Not me. I'm guessing you ordered 26", and they haven't got 700c yet :(
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Just checked & they haven't got either!
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The Marin is now shod with 35c Marathon Winters. No chance of a bedding in ride, so hopefully that'll not do much harm. I have slightly more mudguard clearance than the previous 37s, fairly generous but not more than 15 or 20 mm. I suspect I might find things getting clogged up a bit.
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Not me. I'm guessing you ordered 26", and they haven't got 700c yet :(
Correct. The old MTB does shared commuting duties and has the clearance to fit. They were showing an estimated January delivery when I looked the other day, so I guess the new delivery got swallowed by the back order.
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I think David Martin is right, many skaters will comment on how the standing still falls hurt the most, whilst the at speed falls tend to leave you with only roadrash.
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I think David Martin is right, many skaters will comment on how the standing still falls hurt the most, whilst the at speed falls tend to leave you with only roadrash.
I've done some highspeed crashes with speedskating. As long as the crashguard does it's job you don't feel it (and on ice you don't suffer from roadrash).
Today I had great fun cycling past cars who couldn't get any speed on the icy roads. The Marathon Winters did their job.
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Mrs S and I had a lovely walk across the Welney Washes this morning, watching the Fen Skaters doing their thing.
Now, I've never tried skating - but I can cycle, and I was reminded of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoSbyT6dO0U&feature=related
So - would Marathon Winter Tyres or equivalent studded tyres enable me to ride across the frozen Welney Washes on a bike in such a manner?
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Mrs S and I had a lovely walk across the Welney Washes this morning, watching the Fen Skaters doing their thing.
Now, I've never tried skating - but I can cycle, and I was reminded of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoSbyT6dO0U&feature=related
So - would Marathon Winter Tyres or equivalent studded tyres enable me to ride across the frozen Welney Washes on a bike in such a manner?
No. You wouldn't be slipping about all over the place like those guys were! :thumbsup:
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you get good grip with studded tires and in theory ridding on sheet ice should be fine but the ice can be thinner than it looks so i would stick to the lanes :)
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ALl depends on the icequality. The ice on the video is nice black ice, one of the best icequalities there is.
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I'll be using mine again along the canal tomorrow. :thumbsup:
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I'll be using mine again along the canal tomorrow. :thumbsup:
I hope you mean "along the canal tow-path tomorrow." !! ;D
(I'd be terrified of riding on ice alongside a canal...)
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I'll be using mine again along the canal tomorrow. :thumbsup:
I hope you mean "along the canal tow-path tomorrow." !! ;D
(I'd be terrified of riding on ice alongside a canal...)
Ha, I meant the tow path. In most places there is 2 feet between the path and the ice topped canal.
I must admit that at times I do get slightly concerned about slipping into the canal.
I always tell Mrs G when I leave go that way and ring her when I get to work.
At least they would know where to start looking for the body / bike if I failed to ring.
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Jeez it is cold out there. Winter tyres dropped to recommended pressure of 2 bar.
Full face mask weather today and I haven't even felt the wind yet.
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it 's a nice balmy -7 here in slough 8)
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Going to nip over to the sports shop to buy one last present at lunch. Will be taking the hackbike with studded tyres through Richmond Park. :)
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The studded tyres aren't gonna do me much good today
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The studded tyres aren't gonna do me much good today
Puncture?
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The studded tyres aren't gonna do me much good today
You need one of these: Salsa Cycles | Bikes | Mukluk (http://salsacycles.com/bikes/mukluk/)
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That's fab! I want one of those :D.
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Make that two! Not exactly speedy transport, but it'd get there :)
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I tried the cable tie trick on Sunday. It was a little fiddly because the track
frame of my fixie didn't leave much clearance (partly because I have 28s in
there for the winter). I can report that it works just fine on packed snow,
slush and ice, even when only the rear wheel is cable-tied (I'm not riding
brakless on ice). Unfortunately, as soon as you find yourself on simple paved
road, the cable ties begin to fray and snap at a rate which makes the idea
completely impractical; after a short hop to the supermarket and back, I had
lost nearly three quarters of the ties.
Shame, because it does make a noticeable difference on the snow and ice.
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I tried the cable tie trick on Sunday. It was a little fiddly because the track
frame of my fixie didn't leave much clearance (partly because I have 28s in
there for the winter). I can report that it works just fine on packed snow,
slush and ice, even when only the rear wheel is cable-tied (I'm not riding
brakless on ice). Unfortunately, as soon as you find yourself on simple paved
road, the cable ties begin to fray and snap at a rate which makes the idea
completely impractical; after a short hop to the supermarket and back, I had
lost nearly three quarters of the ties.
Shame, because it does make a noticeable difference on the snow and ice.
There's no need to be a hero - just get off and walk on tarmac.
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Thanks for giving that a go. I guessed zip-tie wear might be a problem but hadn't thought it would be so dramatically bad!
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First ride on Marathon Winters today - God they are hard work ;D
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Thanks for giving that a go. I guessed zip-tie wear might be a problem but hadn't thought it would be so dramatically bad!
I'll be giving it another shot. It's possible that careful attention to tension and placement can extend the lifespan of the ties. Or it's possible we'll see heavier snow ;)
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First ride on Marathon Winters today - God they are hard work ;D
I found them fine at about 4bar on clear roads. On snow I dropped the pressure quite a bit, mainly to improve compliance over ruts. That works brilliantly. The trade off is a dramatic increase indrag on cleared roads.
Brilliant performance though when you consider what we're asking of them.
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They are good fun and very effective on hard packed snow and any dodgy icy sections. Enjoyed the ride home more than the ride in, maybe I am just getting used to them. They add a good 20% to my commute time, partly because they enable me to include a short off-road section, but mostly because they knock a good few mph off the cruising speed.
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I find it best to let the bike find the path and rather than make slight adjustments by steering, lean a little.
Trying to correct your position continuously is not the best idea.
Initially it feels like you are going to come off but then the studs bite and you are back on track, until the next deviation.
I managed an average of 9ish mph on the way in but coming home it dropped to 7ish.
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I managed an average of 9ish mph on the way in but coming home it dropped to 7ish.
That's about normal for me! ;D
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On ice and compacted snow they are so good. I had been running them at full pressure so don't really notice much drop in performance on clear roads, but yesterday with all the new snow, I dropped the pressure.
Unfortunately out here in the countryside, with no cleared roads, there's masses of ridges of sludgy stuff, and the tyres really don't like them and were slipping around a lot. At one point I had to get off and walk for a hundred metres or so, as I felt I was a danger to the traffic behind on the narrow road. A big balloon tyre would probably have been better I think.
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On ice and compacted snow they are so good. I had been running them at full pressure so don't really notice much drop in performance on clear roads, but yesterday with all the new snow, I dropped the pressure.
Unfortunately out here in the countryside, with no cleared roads, there's masses of ridges of sludgy stuff, and the tyres really don't like them and were slipping around a lot. At one point I had to get off and walk for a hundred metres or so, as I felt I was a danger to the traffic behind on the narrow road. A big balloon tyre would probably have been better I think.
This is exactly my experience. They are great except on places where compacted snow has been broken into chunks leaving a very uneven surface
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I had been running them at full pressure so don't really notice much drop in performance on clear roads, but yesterday with all the new snow, I dropped the pressure.
Dropping the pressure is a good idea on hard ice too, especially when it's the slightly uneven texture you get from packed down and polished snow. The more studs you can get to bite the better.
On Sunday I got dumped twice on the ice rink that was Cheltenham, despite the Marathon Winter tyres. After that I let some air out and they were better.
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Last night's ride home from the station was interesting. Conditions weren't good, so I wasn't keen on mixing with the traffic on the main road. But the back route was... interesting. Deep, fresh snow over rutted and compacted ice. Handling wasn't great, to say the least.
It got better after a tractor fitted with a snow plough came past - then I had some nice smooth compacted snow to ride on, which was brilliant.
The point about pressure is a good one. I've been running them at around 50psi and I did let a little air out before setting off but I probably should have let a bit more out.
As a slight aside, I've had a comment on my blog, pointing out that the Open Pro rim on my front wheel isn't rated as suitable for 35C tyres. I checked the Mavic website and this is absolutely correct - they recommend 19-28C tyres for the Open Pro...
I hadn't given the matter a moment's thought, tbh. But it's not like I'm pumping the tyres up to very high pressure, so it should be OK, right? I've got away with it so far...
d.
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I really wish I had got some spiked tyres given our road was a sheet of ice after the rain yesterday followed by a very cold night.
It was so bad I couldn't even walk on it & had to push the bike along the grass verge until I got to the main road.
Mind you, I felt sorry for the guys trying to deliver a washing machine. they couldn't drive up the road & had to abandon the lorry & haul it up the hill on a sack barrow for 100m
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On the clear roads and those with pure ice, I've been running the Marathon's at the max rated pressure of 85 psi. I've just double checked to see what I'd dropped them to yesterday, and found 50 psi on the rear and 20 psi on the front. Whoops.
The minimum pressure is 35 psi. Am I better off at that pressure, or having both at 50 psi?
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Last night's ride home from the station was interesting. Conditions weren't good, so I wasn't keen on mixing with the traffic on the main road. But the back route was... interesting. Deep, fresh snow over rutted and compacted ice. Handling wasn't great, to say the least.
It got better after a tractor fitted with a snow plough came past - then I had some nice smooth compacted snow to ride on, which was brilliant.
The point about pressure is a good one. I've been running them at around 50psi and I did let a little air out before setting off but I probably should have let a bit more out.
As a slight aside, I've had a comment on my blog, pointing out that the Open Pro rim on my front wheel isn't rated as suitable for 35C tyres. I checked the Mavic website and this is absolutely correct - they recommend 19-28C tyres for the Open Pro...
I hadn't given the matter a moment's thought, tbh. But it's not like I'm pumping the tyres up to very high pressure, so it should be OK, right? I've got away with it so far...
d.
The major reason is that highly inflated large tyre exert greater stress on the rim than narrow tyres. You aren't running at high pressures so that is not a problem. Soft fat tyres on narrow rims tend to wallow a bit (and bump steer, etc), so don't go super-low in pressure.
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On the clear roads and those with pure ice, I've been running the Marathon's at the max rated pressure of 85 psi. I've just double checked to see what I'd dropped them to yesterday, and found 50 psi on the rear and 20 psi on the front. Whoops.
The minimum pressure is 35 psi. Am I better off at that pressure, or having both at 50 psi?
Most of the time I find 35psi a bit too soft (heavy work) so 50 is a good compromise. On a really bad day I'll drop to 35 psi though to get the best grip I can.
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The major reason is that highly inflated large tyre exert greater stress on the rim than narrow tyres. You aren't running at high pressures so that is not a problem.
Cheers, that pretty much confirms what I thought.
d.
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On the clear roads and those with pure ice, I've been running the Marathon's at the max rated pressure of 85 psi. I've just double checked to see what I'd dropped them to yesterday, and found 50 psi on the rear and 20 psi on the front. Whoops.
The minimum pressure is 35 psi. Am I better off at that pressure, or having both at 50 psi?
Most of the time I find 35psi a bit too soft (heavy work) so 50 is a good compromise. On a really bad day I'll drop to 35 psi though to get the best grip I can.
:thumbsup:
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On the clear roads and those with pure ice, I've been running the Marathon's at the max rated pressure of 85 psi. I've just double checked to see what I'd dropped them to yesterday, and found 50 psi on the rear and 20 psi on the front. Whoops.
So you got good grip from the studs at 85psi? That's nice to know .. what size are they?
I've been trying to suss this out - my studs rattle on tarmac at quite high pressure, so I had a theory that if they are hitting the tarmac, they will probably give grip on ice [the weight of me+bike distorts the tyre enough to give quite a wide contact], without lowering the pressure as you might, say, in summer mud.
(I haven't been brave enough to try pure ice yet, the studs are just on for insurance so far! But they work OK in snow.)
I think we have to accept that frozen ruts are a nightmare surface. Sun-baked ruts on tracks shared with 4x4s are probably the worst surface to ride on in summer.
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They work ok on off-camber sheet ice but there's a definite crabbing motion as the rear wheel tries to slide down the slope. Lower pressures seem to work better as they allow more studs to contact the ice.
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I've definitely had some usable grip on ice with them at 70psi. Like chris said, they do sort of wonder sideways down a slope a bit, but not catastrophically.
[edit - 70psi is the max on the 26x1.75 version, not just a random pressure I picked...)
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On the clear roads and those with pure ice, I've been running the Marathon's at the max rated pressure of 85 psi. I've just double checked to see what I'd dropped them to yesterday, and found 50 psi on the rear and 20 psi on the front. Whoops.
So you got good grip from the studs at 85psi? That's nice to know .. what size are they?
I've been trying to suss this out - my studs rattle on tarmac at quite high pressure, so I had a theory that if they are hitting the tarmac, they will probably give grip on ice [the weight of me+bike distorts the tyre enough to give quite a wide contact], without lowering the pressure as you might, say, in summer mud.
(I haven't been brave enough to try pure ice yet, the studs are just on for insurance so far! But they work OK in snow.)
I think we have to accept that frozen ruts are a nightmare surface. Sun-baked ruts on tracks shared with 4x4s are probably the worst surface to ride on in summer.
I'd agree with your summary!
Mine are 700 x 35.
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I had a fantastic time carving my way through a few inches of fresh snow on Maxxis 2.25" MTB tyres at about 30 psi yesterday.
I had a much less fantastic time doing 14 miles each way to Poole today on the Marathon winters. There was still signifcant snow and slush on our road deep enough that the round-profile Marathons wouldn't grip; studs useless. The lanes I tried were similar. I ended up on the A350 to make any progress, with 1/2" high lumps of compacted snow up to about 12" away from the side of the road which the Marathons also didn't like much. Overall I'd have been happy with the Maxxis knobblies with some side-profile tread again today.
(https://sites.google.com/site/tencyclingclub/news-2/snopocalypseindorset/PC200235.JPG)
I think once the snow properly melts, then freezes overnight, the Marathons will come into their element (as they did in January this year when I got them - slush in the evening, frozen ruts in the morning).
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I tried the cable tie trick on Sunday. It was a little fiddly because the track
frame of my fixie didn't leave much clearance (partly because I have 28s in
there for the winter). I can report that it works just fine on packed snow,
slush and ice, even when only the rear wheel is cable-tied (I'm not riding
brakless on ice). Unfortunately, as soon as you find yourself on simple paved
road, the cable ties begin to fray and snap at a rate which makes the idea
completely impractical; after a short hop to the supermarket and back, I had
lost nearly three quarters of the ties.
Shame, because it does make a noticeable difference on the snow and ice.
Thanks for giving that a go. I guessed zip-tie wear might be a problem but hadn't thought it would be so dramatically bad!
Interesting. When I had a rim wear out, I rode home 6 miles without a problem with it held together with zip ties. And that wasn't in snowy conditions.
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q273/nuttycyclist/cycling/KIF_5630.jpg)
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AFAIK it's having the zip tie heads against the ground that's the problem. ARallsop found there was a careful balance between getting traction by having them closer to the middle and having them far enough to the side not to wear too quickly.
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Butterfly's studded tyres have arrived from Cycle World. They couldn't get Marathon Winters, so sent Ice Spikers, which are rather more chunky.
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just in time for the thaw :o ;D :demon:
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A bit out of date, but The Man From DotBike posted this elsewhere:
Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:14 pm
The 26" and 700C Marathon winters are due to Bohle(importer) 2nd week of December. I've been waiting for my stock delivery since August!
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Did 20km today on a mixture of clear roads (12km), slush (5km), 1" deep snow (1km), compacted ice (2km).
Marathon Winter tyres at ~80psi. Not a problem on the clear roads (obviously) with just a little hum, nothing noticeable on the slush, and the compacted ice was a joy with the studs (although with the tyres at 80psi there was a fair bit of slip before the studs caught, it was very unnerving and I had to keep telling myself to trust them). The worst though was the 1" deep snow, they were all over the place (front and back). I did consider dropping the pressures but I knew I only had a relatively short ride through that stuff and that I could take going slowly (still 10kph or so) and keep my speed up on the clear/slush roads.
Averaged 21kph (moving) including climbing a quite slippery Broomfield Hill during my RP lap.
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wiggle just emailed to say that my marathon winters are ready for dispatch :thumbsup:
And they are on the bike, really quite hard work. I might keep a little extra air in the back to avoid having to change a pinch flat in the cold.
I note that on rims without a lip the max pressure is one bar lower.
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The Ice Spikers were very easy to fit. 26x2.1" is a pretty fat tyre tho.
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AFAIK it's having the zip tie heads against the ground that's the problem. ARallsop found there was a careful balance between getting traction by having them closer to the middle and having them far enough to the side not to wear too quickly.
But I didn't have the zip tie heads against the ground; the narrow clearance wouldn't allow it. So I compromised by having the heads against one side (or the other, alternating) of the innermost edge of the rim, which still seemed to give me added grip. It's possible there are other factors I need to experiment with. Assuming I get the opportunity.
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First ride in on the Ice Spikers today. They were fairly noisy, but not as hard work as I expected and they got quieter after a while. They were much better on the couple of bits of ridged ice that I did ride over than the knobblies, even though they were pumped right up.
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Fitted a pair of Continental Spike Claw 240 26x2.1 this morning and rode to work on a mixture of thick and compacted snow, lumpy and smooth ice and bare road - amazing. They even climbed steep roads/paths of compacted snow/ice - I could even power up and lift the front wheel. If I tried very hard I could get some slippage. Return journey was knackering!
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5087/5286367932_c4b7e8b3e3.jpg)
Commute to/from work (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hiafi/5284801301/in/set-72157625532109645/)
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Marathon winters at 40psi ridden up the road, on a bit of bridleway and round my street. A mix of rutted ice and clear tarmac. First impressions were a bit of a noise and quite slow - but there was a nasty headwind. Slow turns were a bit iffy, but relaxing and letting the bike follow ruts was enjoyable in a slightly sketchy way and the ride back home was better. Didn't fancy getting out of the saddle, but I could get up an icy rise to my house where cars can't. :thumbsup:
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Today was my first back on the bike (with Marathon Winters) for a few days as I've been off with the lurgy.
My journey in to work was fairly uneventful but I had 3 or 4 'moments' on the way home & very nearly took a tumble. I'll be glad if we can have a thaw soon to get rid of all these darned ruts! I'll probably take the main road route in to work tomorrow, which won't be fun, but on balance (pun not intended but uncannily appropriate) safer. At least I get to finish early tomorrow so will be riding home in daylight which helps a bit.
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Last commute of the year tomorrow and it will be on standard M+ tyres so I can sum up my experiences with studded tyres for the year.
I bought my Marathon Winter tyres in December 2009 just in time for the 6 week spell of snow and Ice in Dec/Jan. Together with use during this current cold spell, they have clocked up 1064km and climbed 14,000m. During this last cold spell, I have been fortunate to have a "dedicated" snow bike (Kona Jake cyclocross) so it has been possible to choose commuting tyres on the day without faffing about changing wheels!
Plusses: They give excellent grip on ice, hard packed snow and slippery fresh thin layers of snow on tarmac and ice. They are great downhill and give very good traction uphill. Traction is also marginally better in thick fresh snow.
Minusses: They have higher rolling resistance and are heavy - commutes are 10-15% slower; under similar conditions on my 30-35 mile hilly commute the rolling average is about 20-21kph compared with 22-24kph on M+ tyres. They are no better on soft packed snow which is the most troublesome stuff to ride on anyway! The only times I have fallen over has been while stationary or moving slowly on this troublesome stuff.
Would I recommend them? Definitely - On several occasions I was the only one amongst my colleagues to make it to work despite living furthest away. Cycle commuting has been possible on all days with the slowest commute requiring only 20 minutes longer. For 3 mornings this month, I was the fastest vehicle on the southbound A61 dual carriageway south of Sheffield!
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Lots of long stretches of packed ice on the Thames path near Kew today - unrideable on normal tyres, and walkers were taking to the muddy edges - excellent grip from the M Winters, really impressive. However, there has been no more snow since I fitted these tyres ::-) so I'll revert to a bike with normal tyres for the time being.
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Rode back from bordon to parents today through hampsire lanes and over the downs, long stretches of sheet ice, got a 'look' from the driver of a stationary landrover as I rode a very icy bit, he had the window down and I had time to shout that I was on studs - which he understood, I suppose this is a problem, no motorists understand that you are under full control. (Although perhaps it leads to more room, cautious driving)
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... excellent grip from the M Winters, really impressive. However, there has been no more snow since I fitted these tyres ::-) so I'll revert to a bike with normal tyres for the time being.
Snow is almost irrelevant; [as with drowning] it only takes 2mm of ice to fall off.
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... excellent grip from the M Winters, really impressive. However, there has been no more snow since I fitted these tyres ::-) so I'll revert to a bike with normal tyres for the time being.
Snow is almost irrelevant; [as with drowning] it only takes 2mm of ice to fall off.
Very true - out here in the sticks, I've been on the Marathon Winter tyres since early December, due to the early morning ice I've seen most mornings. Don't forget he's in that London place - they don't get real weather there, it's normally too warm.
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Lots of long stretches of packed ice on the Thames path near Kew today - unrideable on normal tyres, and walkers were taking to the muddy edges - excellent grip from the M Winters, really impressive. However, there has been no more snow since I fitted these tyres ::-) so I'll revert to a bike with normal tyres for the time being.
Walking along the path yesterday morning I witnessed a fine example of comedy falling down on ice complete with feet up in the air and thud on back, happily by a large burly bloke with loadsapadding so no harm done.
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Been riding on DIY 'studded' tyres for three weeks now to get to work, 26" Schwalbe Landcruisers with £5 worth of screws from B&Q which have worked brilliantly. The Landcruisers were languishing at the back of the garage left over from a previous project and cost <£10 from Wiggle anyway. They have been superb on black ice and packed snow but today temperatures have shot up in Cornwall to well above freezing and I was able to take the road bike out on 23mm slicks and it felt like a rocket ship, especially when climbing.
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OK, so it looks as if this year is not the year for me to get value out of my Marathon Winters :( Oh well they were good fun for the week that I got to use them. Hopefully they'll survive storage for a few years yet.
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OK, so it looks as if this year is not the year for me to get value out of my Marathon Winters :( Oh well they were good fun for the week that I got to use them. Hopefully they'll survive storage for a few years yet.
It is looking that way isn't it? I'm not taking my M Winters off until April though!
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Still ice this week (more snow last week) on the Wolds & some residual streaks of melting packed snow on bridleways just when you think it is all clear.
I'm using the winter trike to preserve the vintage trike from the salt.
Liberal application of PTFE chain lube & GT85 seems to work.
Some rust on the tyre spikes appears overnight but soon vanishes with the grit & potholes. All spikes are still there.
The two Snow Stud tyres are into their second season & the Winter tyre has been used regularly since November.
The trike was safer than the MTB & less scary to ride in ice but the track was wider than the ruts in heavy snow.
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I've been on Marathon Winters for a week now. They're ridden in as they should be, but there's been no ice at all round here and it's really hard work. I'm back to normal tyres this weekend, I think.
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Today is possibly the first day since mid-November I've not had to deal with snow and/or ice on my commute. IMHO Marathon Winters are well worth the cash if you live north of the border :thumbsup:. I'll be keeping them on until March
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The Wiggle Elves brought me a pair of Marathon Winters for the Gay Bike. I hereby give the ice permission to return now :).
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*still waiting* >:(
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Rode my Marathon winters for a week commuting in the middle of december when there was no ice, resulting in painfully slow dry commutes.
First commute of 2011 today, on 25mm slicks, of course dodging the frozen puddles. ::-)
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My studs have gone rusty!
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My winter bike is out-of-service at the moment. :'( I was too chicken to take the Dahon in to work today so got a lift in instead. :facepalm:
Roll on the weekend when I can (hopefully) get my winter bike fixed. :)
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So, I fitted the Marathons onto the Gay Bike. I went for a 30km "bedding-in ride".
What an awesome sound they make! :o :thumbsup:
It's like riding on bubblewrap. There's no way you could sneak up behind someone unless they were listening to Van Halen on their iPod at Level 9 or more.
I thought they would be slow, but I managed the 30km loop in around the same time as I would on the Pompino.
Now all I need is another Big Freeze.
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I thought they would be slow, but I managed the 30km loop in around the same time as I would on the Pompino.
I think this is a comment on your Pompino more than the winter tyres. ;)
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I thought they would be slow, but I managed the 30km loop in around the same time as I would on the Pompino.
I think this is a comment on your Pompino more than the winter tyres. ;)
Quiet likely - it being encumbered in several ways:
1. Marathon + tyres
2. Only one gear
3. An infeasible amount of mud about its nether regions
:D
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So where is the snow line nowadays. It was unbelievably frosty in W4 this morning and I nearly slipped over this morning whilst walking. The last snow I saw was some vestigial patches on the Poor Student a fortnight ago
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Vague traces of ice remaining where show had been heaped up in Dundee. Otherwise back to normal service. I nearly have the summer wheels ready to roll (new discs, new tubes, new bearings - just need to decide what to do with the cassette.)
..d
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I thought they would be slow, but I managed the 30km loop in around the same time as I would on the Pompino.
I think this is a comment on your Pompino more than the winter tyres. ;)
Quiet likely - it being encumbered in several ways:
1. Marathon + tyres
2. Only one gear
3. An infeasible amount of mud about its nether regions
:D
I switched back from Marathon Winter to Marathon Plus on the Roadrat.
The Roadrat seems faster and easier with Marathon Plus and my times are 10-15 minutes faster for the 50km
My Roadrat does have gears
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I sometimes think I must live in some kind of weird arctic micro-climate. I've had icy roads on two morning commutes so far this week.
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I took the Marathon Winters off the bike last night.
I miss the reassuring buzz and awesome grip, but the speed difference last night was astounding. I "scalped" everyone I saw and the bike felt as though I'd cut the brake lines. I hadn't reaslied how much I'd come to rely on the drag of the tyres for deceleration. As a result, I spent a lot of time clicking up through the gears and then standing on the brakes.
It was enormous fun.
However, I can't fault the Marathon Winters - totally Ronseal.
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OK, I think we can guarantee that snow has ended for the year.
My Marathon Winters have arrived from Wiggle! The day that the M+ to replace them for summer have arrived too.
It's only taken since mid-October ::-)
*faints*
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OK, I think we can guarantee that snow has ended for the year
No, I'm going to take my MWs off this weekend, so blizzards are likely.
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And I'm hoping finally to repair my winter bike tomorrow. ;D Bring on the snow!
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North Yorkshire will remain snow free.
Why?
Because given the amount of hassle it took to get the Schwalbe Snow Stud tyres now adorning the work bike onto Shimano factory rims, the tyres can bloody well stay where they're at until they either wear out or the road buzz drives me insane - my thumbs had enough grief putting them on, I do not wish to sacrifice any more tyre levers (or indeed my thumbs) in removing them.
If we don't have any more snow, then I'll put 'em through their paces in some lovely Dalby Forest muck :)
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Same for Glasgow area, I fitted my new schwable ice-spikers last weekend to ensure milder weather. They went on without too much difficulty for me. (Sun & Rigida rims) They look brilliant too !
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If anyone is thinking of trying winter studded tyres this year, I recommend start shopping around now. As soon as we get any ice, you can bet there'll be none left in the shops until Spring.
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I got a pair of Marathon winters from wiggle last week. Couldn't fault them on price & speed of delivery!
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On the one hand all the holly trees are covered in berries, the sloe is groaning under the weight too. Most plants seem to have really been very productive. That's a sign of a hard winter to come.
On the other hand, we've just had a couple of bad years so I can't imagine that the snow/ice tyres will be quite as useful this time round
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On the other hand, we've just had a couple of bad years so I can't imagine that the snow/ice tyres will be quite as useful this time round
That's what I said last year.
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For the first time in my life, I'm fully prepared for the worst a British winter can throw at me - kitted out with ice tyres for the bike and snow chains for the car.
Expect it to be the mildest winter since records began.
d.
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I got a pair of Marathon winters from wiggle last week. Couldn't fault them on price & speed of delivery!
Same here.
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If anyone is thinking of trying winter studded tyres this year, I recommend start shopping around now. As soon as we get any ice, you can bet there'll be none left in the shops until Spring.
Might be a bit late already.
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Wiggle still have stock of Marathon winters in both sizes although the 26" has gone up in price since I got mine a week ago
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Hmm. wonder if it might be worth buying up a load then flogging em off at a markup come december ;)
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I ordered one about 5 days before christmas last year, the guy phoned me to say they had none in stock but would I like him to keep the order on and just send it when it arrives; I agreed expecting a long wait but it turned up on christmas eve ???
Stuck it on the front with a gnarly MTB tyre on the rear and it made short work of everything I threw at it all throughout that bad spell we had :demon:
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Hmm. wonder if it might be worth buying up a load then flogging em off at a markup come december ;)
I'd be tempted to do that if I had the capital. It's precisely how the likes of Alan Sugar got started.
On the other hand, I'd feel bad about exploiting the needs of fellow cyclists. Which is why I'll never be a millionaire. ::-)
d.
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Hmm. wonder if it might be worth buying up a load then flogging em off at a markup come december ;)
I'd be tempted to do that if I had the capital. It's precisely how the likes of Alan Sugar got started.
On the other hand, I'd feel bad about exploiting the needs of fellow cyclists. Which is why I'll never be a millionaire. ::-)
d.
Ah, but if you didn't, they still wouldn't be able to get any, or might have to pay an even bigger mark up - so you're effectively doing them a favour ;)
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I've got a pair of very lightly used Marathon winters in 26" from last year. If anyone has some more serious offroad-tread studded tyres (26" or 29er/700c) they want to swap I might be interested.
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We have a pair of Ice Spikers, but I suspect that Butterfly will want to keep hold of them.
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I sometimes think I must live in some kind of weird arctic micro-climate. I've had icy roads on two morning commutes so far this week.
Where do you live, Yorkshire ? lol
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We have a pair of Ice Spikers, but I suspect that Butterfly will want to keep hold of them.
If you do want to swap, they'd be just what I'm after.
The Marathons are great for icy roads but were no good last winter on traffic-free bridleways and lanes. I figured I didn't care about rolling resistance as the only days I'd be using the studded tyres I'd be going faster than the cars what ever tyres I had, so may as well swap for some I could ride some singletrack on as well.
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Send her a PM to ask. They're not fitted to wheels at the moment, so should be Ok to swap if she wants. I think they were a bit OTT for our roads, but she was sent them by a supplier who didn't have the Winters she requested.
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The Marathons are great for icy roads but were no good last winter on traffic-free bridleways and lanes.
I'd noticed that - except in my case it was more they couldn't cope very well with thick piles of snow on the edges of roads. I guess the ideal winter tyre is one with a very thick chunky tread and studs. Then it can handle thick snow and ice.
Does such a thing exist?
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Nokian Hakkapeliittatatata? (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&sugexp=gsis,i18n%3Dtrue&cp=8&gs_id=t&xhr=t&q=nokian+hakkapeliitta&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1615&bih=827&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi#um=1&hl=en&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=nokian+hakkapeliitta+bicycle+tyre&pbx=1&oq=nokian+hakkapeliitta+bicycle+tyre&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=3010l6271l0l6363l15l15l1l13l14l0l66l66l1l1l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=2a0d6c80f99be0cc&biw=1615&bih=827)
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Schwalbe Snow Stud (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=schwalbe+snow+stud&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1024&bih=485)?
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Ice spikers :demon:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=schwalbe+snow+stud&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1024&bih=485#um=1&hl=en&safe=off&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=schwalbe+ice+spiker+&oq=schwalbe+ice+spiker+&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=2765l5727l0l6094l7l5l0l4l4l0l65l65l1l1l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=63d7de1d37660d14&biw=1920&bih=960 (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=schwalbe+snow+stud&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1024&bih=485#um=1&hl=en&safe=off&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=schwalbe+ice+spiker+&oq=schwalbe+ice+spiker+&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=2765l5727l0l6094l7l5l0l4l4l0l65l65l1l1l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=63d7de1d37660d14&biw=1920&bih=960)
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Ice spikers :demon:
big long linky thing (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=schwalbe+snow+stud&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1024&bih=485#um=1&hl=en&safe=off&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=schwalbe+ice+spiker+&oq=schwalbe+ice+spiker+&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=2765l5727l0l6094l7l5l0l4l4l0l65l65l1l1l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=63d7de1d37660d14&biw=1920&bih=960)
They look more like instuments of torture than tyres
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Ice spikers :demon:
big long linky thing (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=schwalbe+snow+stud&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1024&bih=485#um=1&hl=en&safe=off&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=schwalbe+ice+spiker+&oq=schwalbe+ice+spiker+&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=2765l5727l0l6094l7l5l0l4l4l0l65l65l1l1l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=63d7de1d37660d14&biw=1920&bih=960)
They look more like instuments of torture than tyres
Sssh, don't tell charlotte!
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Marathon Winters worked brilliantly for me last winter. I'm actually looking forward to using them again this coming winter.
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Marathon Winters worked brilliantly for me last winter. I'm actually looking forward to using them again this coming winter.
+1
d.
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Not as much as I am; I got my bike with Winters sorted just after it warmed up...
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Marathon Winters worked brilliantly for me last winter. I'm actually looking forward to using them again this coming winter.
+1
+2
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One of my justifications for the trike was riding on ice.
Might be retiring my marathon winters in the spring if it goes well on the trike.
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Belt & braces approach, I'm changing back to my winter trike in November. That is a Longstaff conversion with a Marathon Winter on the drive wheel and Snow Studs on the front & idler.
The summer trike is a classic Higgins so I don't want salt damage after restoring it.
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I thought about the trike, but visualised myself on ice, sailing into the path of a car. A trike with Winters, of course, would be fine. Might try it...
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If you're thinking of getting Marathon winters, Wiggle have 10% off this weekend using the EXTRA-10 voucher code.
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I have some 26" 2.5 marathon winters from last winter with 50miles on them. I would like to swap for some 700C versions, any takes?
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I thought about the trike, but visualised myself on ice, sailing into the path of a car. A trike with Winters, of course, would be fine. Might try it...
Most of the problem for me is the odd unexpected patch which can take your (two) wheels from under you, rather than acres of skating rink which sends you spinning to oblivion.
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I have some 26" 2.5 marathon winters from last winter with 50miles on them. I would like to swap for some 700C versions, any takes?
Did not realise they came that wide, thought they were only 1.75"? If I were you I would sit on them, then auction them on here the day the ice comes.
I will be relying on my home made jobs again (converted Schwalbe Landcruisers), they were very safe last winter, but I only had about 16 'studs' (screws) in the back tyre so uphill traction was an issue, I will spend £5 and an evening's work to double them up before November.
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If you're thinking of getting Marathon winters, Wiggle have 10% off this weekend using the EXTRA-10 voucher code.
Cheaper here, as long as you select the free post option: http://www.venussports.co.uk/index.php?products_id=2214
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Wow
does anyone in york/leeds want any of these?
It's 10% off if the order is over £100. That brings the price down to £27 per tyre. I'd put in an order for 4 or more if some other people want them. They seem to have the 26" and 700c versions.
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<bump>
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The Marathons are great for icy roads but were no good last winter on traffic-free bridleways and lanes.
I'd noticed that - except in my case it was more they couldn't cope very well with thick piles of snow on the edges of roads. I guess the ideal winter tyre is one with a very thick chunky tread and studs. Then it can handle thick snow and ice.
Does such a thing exist?
Yup. My DIY snow tyres :P
2 years of snow and I still love them. Looking forwards to winter already.
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The Marathons are great for icy roads but were no good last winter on traffic-free bridleways and lanes.
I'd noticed that - except in my case it was more they couldn't cope very well with thick piles of snow on the edges of roads. I guess the ideal winter tyre is one with a very thick chunky tread and studs. Then it can handle thick snow and ice.
Does such a thing exist?
Yes - but there is a compromise. winter tyres are mainly categorised as EITHER snow OR ice tyres. I suspect - based on playing around and reading other folks' posts - that the mixed conditions of partial melt, deep snow and hard ice will ALWAYS be the most tricky to ride on. (It's like riding off-road - even with the right tyres you need to concentrate more than riding on smooth dry tarmac). Because our snow spells are short-lived, we spend a lot of time in partial melt / refreeze conditions. This is actually WORSE than the winter conditions in 'normal' countries, IMHO!
Schwalbe do a Snow tyre, I think I bought one from Wiggle. It has deeper tread but less studs than the "Winters". Other tyres exist from other brands - read back through the eleventy pages of this thread :)
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the marathon winters i ordered came last week. I don't think they'd be good in deep, sludgy mud, but I think they'd be fine on compacted snow.
It's probably rare that you'd have to ride through deep, virgin snow. More likely in the tyre track that's been flattened by car tyres.
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I have some 26" 2.5 marathon winters from last winter with 50miles on them. I would like to swap for some 700C versions, any takes?
Did not realise they came that wide, thought they were only 1.75"? If I were you I would sit on them, then auction them on here the day the ice comes.
I will be relying on my home made jobs again (converted Schwalbe Landcruisers), they were very safe last winter, but I only had about 16 'studs' (screws) in the back tyre so uphill traction was an issue, I will spend £5 and an evening's work to double them up before November.
Woops, yes they are 1.75
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Right, I have to say that Marathon Winters are the hardest tyre I have ever fitted!!!
Snapped 2 tyre levers, scratched my knees (don't wear shorts!) & my fingers are numb!
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Right, I have to say that Marathon Winters are the hardest tyre I have ever fitted!!!
Snapped 2 tyre levers, scratched my knees (don't wear shorts!) & my fingers are numb!
Err? You didn't order 26" and fit them to 700c did you?
;D
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What's the difference?? :P
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What's the difference?? :P
Just over a couple of inches. A 700C tyre has a rim diameter of 622mm, and a 27×(decimal) has a diameter of 559mm, a difference of 63mm. If you've got the tyres on, you haven't suffered this, the two tyres are utterly incompatible. A tyre for one rim will not fit the other, one way they'll fall off, the other they'll never fit.
See Sheldon Brown - Tyre Sizing (http://sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html).
I didn't have a problem fitting my Marathon Winters, but maybe I was just lucky with my rims.
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What's the difference?? :P
Just over a couple of inches. A 700C tyre has a rim diameter of 622mm, and a 27×(decimal) has a diameter of 559mm, a difference of 63mm. If you've got the tyres on, you haven't suffered this, the two tyres are utterly incompatible. A tyre for one rim will not fit the other, one way they'll fall off, the other they'll never fit.
See Sheldon Brown - Tyre Sizing (http://sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html).
I didn't have a problem fitting my Marathon Winters, but maybe I was just lucky with my rims.
'twas supposed to be a tongue in cheek remark that didn't come across due to the typed word & misuse of smilies!!.
OTOH, I got told that I shouldn't use tyre levers to fit tyres by the guy in the LBS!
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I suggest you take in a Chrina-rimmed wheel, hand them a brand-new continental <whatever> and ask them to put the tyre on for you. :demon:
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And don't forget to video the fun & games & post it back here. :demon:
Similar story with Chrina+Schwalbe Blizzard Sport, and Chrina+Schwalbe Ultremo XR here!
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OTOH, I got told that I shouldn't use tyre levers to fit tyres by the guy in the LBS!
Definitely true. Danger of pinching the tube.
If you need to, use something, such as a VAR lever, that is designed for fitting tyres, but not the levers that you use to remove them.
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Levers should always be the last resort for fitting tyres - but it is possible to use ordinary ones successfully if you're careful.
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Levers should always be the last resort for fitting tyres - but it is possible to use ordinary ones successfully if you're careful.
er, Biggsy - do you know you've still got That Font enabled?
(fortunately it's not rendering as intended on this box :thumbsup: )
HTH,
Matt
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I'm going to be using it for every post for ever more. :P
Not really, just a bit longer.
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I guess the ideal winter tyre is one with a very thick chunky tread and studs. Then it can handle thick snow and ice.
Does such a thing exist?
The Schwalbe Ice Spiker has lots of studs and a decent knobbly tread for both ice and deep snow. (26" only).
folding (http://www.wiggle.co.uk/schwalbe-ice-spiker-pro-performance-folding-mtb-tyre/), rigid (http://www.wiggle.co.uk/schwalbe-ice-spiker-performance-rigid-mtb-tyre/)
The drawback (apart from cost) is that it's reputedly as slow as a very slow thing.
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Snow studs (http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=48758) are chunky tread and spikes (although not as spiky as the ones above). They come in 700c and 26" versions too.
They are also slower than a slow thing though.
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My first wheelbuild(s) will be replacement wheels for the hackbike (a 700c wheeled hybrid).
Probably Mavic A319 with basic Shimano hubs. Nothing special.
That way I can fit my winter studded tyres to the existing wheels (getting a bit knackered now, have to replace a spoke tonight and retrue the wheel) and leave them for the worst of the winter.
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Not studded as such, but I'm giving serious consideration to these:
http://www.ukbikestore.co.uk/product/139/tyc00325/continental-top-contact-winter-ii-reflex-700-x-37c.html (http://www.ukbikestore.co.uk/product/139/tyc00325/continental-top-contact-winter-ii-reflex-700-x-37c.html)
Anyone tried them ?
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http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=41377.0 (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=41377.0)
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Aww flip. Summer must be really over if this thread is back!
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Not studded as such, but I'm giving serious consideration to these:
http://www.ukbikestore.co.uk/product/139/tyc00325/continental-top-contact-winter-ii-reflex-700-x-37c.html (http://www.ukbikestore.co.uk/product/139/tyc00325/continental-top-contact-winter-ii-reflex-700-x-37c.html)
Anyone tried them ?
Not at that price I haven't!
£36.00!!!
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I know. :-\ I've used conti's 700c skinny winter tyres (GP4 seasons) and they are undoubtedly good in the wet and better than other slicks on ice. But that price is more than schwalbe winter marathons.
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Oh noes, the snow tyre dilemma again!
I'm still right next to a gritted A-road. But last winter was a doozy and we had unploughed (never mind ungritted) days as well as lots of ice; tractors bringing nurses to the hospital all rammed in like smurfs in a phone-box. My inner Plucky Cyclist was mortified that after ten falls in a quarter mile, I gave up and worked from home.
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A pair of 26" Schwalbe Marathon Winter tyres arrived today from Wiggle - £30.39 ea. delivered. Pair of new winter wheels built this afternoon. Bring on the Indian summer! :smug:
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Given that the East Coast of the USA has just been hit by unseasonably early snow, and I found it's replacement freewheel, I've just made sure that the snow bike is ready for use this year.
Bring on the snow!
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Got 12 replacement studs from Schwalbe UK yesterday!
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Got 12 replacement studs from Schwalbe UK yesterday!
That's worth knowing. :thumbsup:
I bought an old Raleigh mtb (15 speed) for 40 quid from my local bike project, Spindles & Sprockets, so I could kit it out with the winter tyres while keeping the Pashley ready for those days when there's no ice. Although it's an old bike, it seems to be in excellent nick. In the Spring it will morph in to my allotment bicycle, with the tow-bar fitted for hauling the trailer around.
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Found some old MTB tyres in the garage. Might do a fresh set of the DIY tyres when I get a chance... will try to find screws of stronger metal though, riding the old tyres for two winters has worn them down somewhat (but they still have more pointiness than purpose purchased tyres).
Oh, the bike needs a chain and an oil first... it's had nothing in years other than roadsalt! Chain has been soaking in white spirit since I took it off the bike in June and forgot about it.
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Chain has been soaking in white spirit since I took it off the bike in June
Is it clean yet ???
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Whenever I see this thread I feel a strange urge to buy some winter studded tyres. But then I realise that since I don't own a suitable bike to fit them to I would first need to buy N+1 in order to know what sized tyre to order :facepalm:
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I bought the tyres first, then had to buy n+1 to fit the tyres :-[
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Whenever I see this thread I feel a strange urge to buy some winter studded tyres. But then I realise that since I don't own a suitable bike to fit them to I would first need to buy N+1 in order to know what sized tyre to order :facepalm:
Same :)
Frere
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Whenever I see this thread I feel a strange urge to buy some winter studded tyres. But then I realise that since I don't own a suitable bike to fit them to I would first need to buy N+1 in order to know what sized tyre to order :facepalm:
Can you fit 32s? Jezton on CycleChat looking into getting some Nokian A10s shipped over that are 700x32 - link (http://www.cyclechat.net/topic/94542-preparing-for-the-ice-age-studded-tyres/page__view__findpost__p__1873854)
In stock here (http://www.areena.com/review/product/list/id/621/) - though I don't know if they will ship to the UK
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Whenever I see this thread I feel a strange urge to buy some winter studded tyres. But then I realise that since I don't own a suitable bike to fit them to I would first need to buy N+1 in order to know what sized tyre to order :facepalm:
Good argument for a nice no-nonsense sporty hybrid, surely? ;D
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Whenever I see this thread I feel a strange urge to buy some winter studded tyres. But then I realise that since I don't own a suitable bike to fit them to I would first need to buy N+1 in order to know what sized tyre to order :facepalm:
Can you fit 32s? Jezton on CycleChat looking into getting some Nokian A10s shipped over that are 700x32 - link (http://www.cyclechat.net/topic/94542-preparing-for-the-ice-age-studded-tyres/page__view__findpost__p__1873854)
In stock here (http://www.areena.com/review/product/list/id/621/) - though I don't know if they will ship to the UK
My rims take up to 28, but I have nice 35mm SKS mudguards anyway which would preclude the fitting of anything even remotely fat! My bikes are both essentially road bikes.
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Whenever I see this thread I feel a strange urge to buy some winter studded tyres. But then I realise that since I don't own a suitable bike to fit them to I would first need to buy N+1 in order to know what sized tyre to order :facepalm:
Good argument for a nice no-nonsense sporty hybrid, surely? ;D
Well I had been thinking more of a hard tail with disc brakes or something. But my commute is both long and very lumpy so it could be that it would take just too long on winter tyres and/or a slower bike anyway!
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Disc brakes would certainly be the way to go, but yes, your commute would be a bit epic if done repeatedly in proper winter.
IME, which may be atypical, the sort of conditions that make studded tyres a good idea generally mean that the effect of being out in the cold dwarfs any bike-specific performance issues[1]. What would normally be an easy ride becomes surprisingly knackering in the cold, even if you don't have traction problems or breathing issues.
[1] I appreciate that as a heavy owner of assorted shapes of heavy bike, I tend to under-rate the importance of 'fast' bikes.
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Disc brakes would certainly be the way to go, but yes, your commute would be a bit epic if done repeatedly in proper winter.
IME, which may be atypical, the sort of conditions that make studded tyres a good idea generally mean that the effect of being out in the cold dwarfs any bike-specific performance issues[1]. What would normally be an easy ride becomes surprisingly knackering in the cold, even if you don't have traction problems or breathing issues.
[1] I appreciate that as a heavy owner of assorted shapes of heavy bike, I tend to under-rate the importance of 'fast' bikes.
I don't think I've ever reached the top of the gorge cold whatever the temperature was! But it was the descents I was concerned about because I rely on nipping down the other side at >40mph to make up the time I lost on the ascent. How well do these studded tyres perform on a steep descent?
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I wouldn't even try to rival that sort of speed on studs. They grip the road on ice, but they are still no match for nice dry tarmac. You don't lean the bike as much and steer it a bit more, and have to give the road surface a lot more respect than when there is no ice.
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I'm yet to acquire my Marathon Winters, but I have a set of Marathon Cross, which have a similar tread pattern without the studs. While they're a vast improvement on slippery surfaces, and I've kept them on the bike over the last couple of winters purely for the improved handling of loose grit and chutney, the knobbliness does make cornering at speed feel really dodgy compared to slicks. At high pressures (which, admittedly, you wouldn't be running at in the snow) they roll surprisingly well on road, and I don't mind descending at speed on them if there aren't any serious bends, but Cheddar Gorge would not be on my list ;D
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I've descended from quite well up the ascent of the Signal de Botrange to Spa past winter. The problem was not so much the tyres but the ice-ridges under the snowcover. No way to see them. So part of the descent was with one foot on the ground and sliding all over the place. The tyres did have grip but the ridges pushed the bike in all sorts of directions.
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Just had an e-Mal from SJS announcing that winter and studded tyres are in stock for those that are interested
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I think it's been said a long way back, up-thread - studded tyres are no magic solution. They largely prevent that kind of fall that has no transition - you know the one, when you're riding then without transition, you're on the road. But the ride on them on sheet ice is still very ambiguous, and as others have said, riding on ridged frozen slush and snow is still horrible.
Even riding with ice tyres, I would ride very conservatively if the road were unevenly frozen; forget descending at any kind of speed, especially if dark as well.
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Also - if the road is largely clean tarmac, and you do descend at speed, the noise will be heard from two counties away.
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...
But my commute is both long and very lumpy so it could be that it would take just too long on winter tyres and/or a slower bike anyway!
Are you saying a bike ride can be too long? I'll have to go away and think about this ...
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My rims take up to 28, but I have nice 35mm SKS mudguards anyway which would preclude the fitting of anything even remotely fat! My bikes are both essentially road bikes.
I bet your rims could really take 32mm tyres, regardless of what the rim maker says, and possibly the mudguards could be bodged to get more clearance. Not that I think it's worth it unless it's essential for you to cycle on icy days. I'd rather walk myself, and I don't much like walking.
There may not be enough room within the chain stays, though (allowing for some wobble room as well).
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Indeed I've used 40mm tyres on MA40 rims designed for 23mm tyres. No problems at all.
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Just have to be careful not to use extremely high air pressure, which may damage or explode the rim when it's very narrow for the tyre. I reckon this is the main reason for the limit that the manufacturer quotes.
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I bet your rims could really take 32mm tyres, regardless of what the rim maker says, and possibly the mudguards could be bodged to get more clearance. Not that I think it's worth it unless it's essential for you to cycle on icy days.
Mudguards can be removed. I wouldn't normally mention such heresy, but if you really want to ride your bike and a cold spell has set in, it could be worth it for a few weeks, or the mid-winter period.
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Whenever I see this thread I feel a strange urge to buy some winter studded tyres. But then I realise that since I don't own a suitable bike to fit them to I would first need to buy N+1 in order to know what sized tyre to order :facepalm:
Can you fit 32s? Jezton on CycleChat looking into getting some Nokian A10s shipped over that are 700x32 - link (http://www.cyclechat.net/topic/94542-preparing-for-the-ice-age-studded-tyres/page__view__findpost__p__1873854)
In stock here (http://www.areena.com/review/product/list/id/621/) - though I don't know if they will ship to the UK
Very good winter hybrid tyre. I had them fitted to 'the unrideable'[1] when I was in lands trollish and they were great - towing 2 kids and shopping up a 1/10 hill on sheet ice was quite straightforward
..d
[1] An old bike rescued from a neighbours compost heap. The geometry was far from symmetrical and it was a friend who cristened it unrideable. Normal 1970's steel 'racer' so the 700/32c fitted just fine.
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But it was the descents I was concerned about because I rely on nipping down the other side at >40mph to make up the time I lost on the ascent. How well do these studded tyres perform on a steep descent?
You will either be looking at an ambulance or a very big laundry bill. These tyres take the unrideable to conditions that are like a slick autumn road in heavy rain. In other words you are not going to be wanting to explore the limits of traction at 40mph. They will keep you upright within reason, but not at the kind of speeds you are talking about.
Definitely worth trying but it can double your commute time. My winter commute in Oslo took about 100 minutes comapred to 50 in summer (same bike, slicks in summer and studs in winter.)
...
But my commute is both long and very lumpy so it could be that it would take just too long on winter tyres and/or a slower bike anyway!
Are you saying a bike ride can be too long? I'll have to go away and think about this ...
It's not that the ride is too long, but that the time available is too little..
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I eventually managed to wrestle my Winter Marathons onto my mountain bike's wheels over the weekend.
I used them for five months last winter (about eight miles a day) - mostly on ice-free roads - but when there was ice and compacted snow around, they were great.
However, I notice that the two rows of studs along the centre of each tyre are now pushed quite a long way back into the tread. Is this likely to inhibit grip? I thought they were meant to last as long as the tread (which is barely worn)? The outer rows still look very much like new - in fact I've only lost one stud out of 400.
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I believe that it is desired for the studs to be pushed back in - Schwalbe say to do 50miles on dry roads to bed them in. I've done 25 on mine so far and the centre rows are noticeably sunken compared to the side rows.
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But it was the descents I was concerned about because I rely on nipping down the other side at >40mph to make up the time I lost on the ascent. How well do these studded tyres perform on a steep descent?
You will either be looking at an ambulance or a very big laundry bill.
Confirmed. Add to that significant time spent patching torn clothes, embarrassment if anyone sees you and asks "whatever are you thinking going so fast on ice?", irritation that partner was right and I *would* crash (and despite the cuts and bruises she wouldn't come and get me because... she told me so). I speak from personal, painful experience.
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But it was the descents I was concerned about because I rely on nipping down the other side at >40mph to make up the time I lost on the ascent. How well do these studded tyres perform on a steep descent?
You will either be looking at an ambulance or a very big laundry bill.
Confirmed. Add to that significant time spent patching torn clothes, embarrassment if anyone sees you and asks "whatever are you thinking going so fast on ice?", irritation that partner was right and I *would* crash (and despite the cuts and bruises she wouldn't come and get me because... she told me so). I speak from personal, painful experience.
When I first had my snow studs a couple of years ago I was curious as to how fast I could go before I lost it. 36 mph was the answer, on this hill:
http://g.co/maps/sfjjx
It took a loooooooong time to come to halt after I'd hit the deck and I confess this wasn't something I'd taken into account in the planning stage. :facepalm: Walked way with just a nasty bruise but it's not something I'll do again deliberately, at least not onna road.
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A Michelin Man style inflatable suit would be handy.
I broke my hip after slipping on wet road. Anything even worse, such as ice, now terrifies me. I better not try studded tyres in case it makes me feel safer than I actually would be. #riskcompensation
I would get a trike if I had the storage space.
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The last two winters I carried on riding through most of the weather, using normal tyres (paselas and GP4 seasons).
I crashed at least once every ride. It got to the point that I feel the wheels twitching and I would tense up. Didn't get hurt crashing, but was exhausted from the tension. It really spoilt what is my favourite time of year (having grown up in Australia, snow and ice is still exotic and strange to me).
This year I'm going studded.
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A Michelin Man style inflatable suit would be handy.
I broke my hip after slipping on wet road. Anything even worse, such as ice, now terrifies me. I better not try studded tyres in case it makes me feel safer than I actually would be. #riskcompensation
I would get a trike if I had the storage space.
After I had a hip replaced I decided that risking a major impact on that side wasn't a good idea - normal riding in winter I wear a pair of six six one ' armoured'* undershorts and if it looks icy I don't go out (yeah I know - wimp). Studded tyres would just make me more nervous.
* Not armour plate but chunky sorbothane platelets not sure what the technical name for the shorts is
Last winter one of my workmates made himself a set of winter tyres using some cheap halfords tyres, a load of self tapping brass wood screws and some Kevlar liners. He reckoned they worked fine - they certainly made an impressive noise!
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Not that I think it's worth it unless it's essential for you to cycle on icy days. I'd rather walk myself, and I don't much like walking.
Walking is not an option, my commute is 21 miles each way and right over the Mendip hills. I would need to use the car :(
But it was the descents I was concerned about because I rely on nipping down the other side at >40mph to make up the time I lost on the ascent. How well do these studded tyres perform on a steep descent?
You will either be looking at an ambulance or a very big laundry bill. These tyres take the unrideable to conditions that are like a slick autumn road in heavy rain. In other words you are not going to be wanting to explore the limits of traction at 40mph. They will keep you upright within reason, but not at the kind of speeds you are talking about.
Definitely worth trying but it can double your commute time. My winter commute in Oslo took about 100 minutes comapred to 50 in summer (same bike, slicks in summer and studs in winter.)
...
But my commute is both long and very lumpy so it could be that it would take just too long on winter tyres and/or a slower bike anyway!
Are you saying a bike ride can be too long? I'll have to go away and think about this ...
It's not that the ride is too long, but that the time available is too little..
Exactly this. My commute is 21 miles each way and takes 1 hour 40 minutes on a good day. Doubling this to over 3 hours each way puts it into the not-doable category. Not least because I have only 9 hours between shifts, and so would get less than 3 hours sleep a day between them! I also can't leave my dogs alone for 21 hours out of a 24 hour period repeatedly, they would eat the house!
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If you had thick snow over the entire route, then yes, it's going to be a lot slower, but it would be if your drove (using winter or studded tyres) as well. The bike is likely to be able to get through conditions that the car isn't, but if I was cycling 20 miles through thick snow, I'd make damned sure I was carrying a moderate amount of emergency kit, you really don't want to find yourself stuck in the middle, with ten miles of walking in the snow to get home.
On the other hand, if part of your route is likely to be snowy or icy, then studs are going to allow you to do it at a reasonable pace, and still go close to the speed that you otherwise would on clearer conditions. All studded tyres are going to be slower than their nearest unstudded equivalent, whatever the conditions.
If you are talking about cycling in serious snow conditions, there are chunkier tyres which are essentially off-road tyres with studs, since studded slick(ish) tyres like Marathon Winters are really designed to tolerate icy conditions with some snow, not actual thick snow falls.
None of these studded tyres will fit on a bike with close clearance. If the clearance issues are due to mudguards, then you would probably want to remove the mudguards anyway, because if they're that close to the tyres, you'll just end up with the gap packed with snow and the tyres won't turn at all. Generally this is going to mean a mountain bike or hybrid. Some touring bikes will also take wider tyres, but pretty much no road bikes. Peter White says this about narrow racing road bike wheels:
I'm sorry you have a racing bike. Really, I am. The reason I'm sorry is that nobody makes a studded tire that will fit on any modern road racing bicycle. Racing bikes typically come with 700x23mm (23-622) tires. If you look at the clearance between your tires and those parts of your bike that the tires come close to, you'll see that there is probably no more than 4mm or 5mm clearance at some points. And at the top of the tire, particularly where the tire goes under the front brake, you could have as little as 3mm of clearance.
Since the smallest 700c (622) studded tire is 32mm, measuring about 30mm tall and wide, there is simply no way that they will fit in most racing frames.
If you're serious about using studded tyres, then it's well worth reading Peter White Cycles (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.asp) web page on the subject, which is very useful and informative, and shows lots of examples of tyres, including the Marathon Winters.
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The bike is likely to be able to get through conditions that the car isn't, but if I was cycling 20 miles through thick snow, I'd make damned sure I was carrying a moderate amount of emergency kit, you really don't want to find yourself stuck in the middle, with ten miles of walking in the snow to get home.
Indeed, In that sort of situation I'd want some decent walking boots (along with plenty of extra clothing and bike tools and so on) with me. Probably by swapping the SPDs for cage pedals with PowerGrips and wearing the boots, but failing that, I'd bung them in a pannier.
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It's not that the ride is too long, but that the time available is too little..
Exactly this. My commute is 21 miles each way and takes 1 hour 40 minutes on a good day. Doubling this to over 3 hours each way puts it into the not-doable category. Not least because I have only 9 hours between shifts, and so would get less than 3 hours sleep a day between them! I also can't leave my dogs alone for 21 hours out of a 24 hour period repeatedly, they would eat the house!
I have used Schwalbe Marathon Winter studded tyres over the last 2 winters for ~1000km on a ~56km commute - They are slower than slicks but not a huge ammount slower - 22kph vs 24kph on my hilly commute. 2:35 vs 2h20. I just have to accept that these trips will take me 15-20 minutes longer.
I regularly hit 50-55kph on them with no problems or brown pants (yet) - just have to anticipate and slow down in advance of manoevres. Knowing the commute very well after having done it almost 1500 times helps...
You are right, of course. Its the total time taken that limits your commute, not the actual distance. It is a shame you cannot try before you buy, would love to help out but you are a little too far away.
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...
Last winter one of my workmates made himself a set of winter tyres using some cheap halfords tyres, a load of self tapping brass wood screws and some Kevlar liners. He reckoned they worked fine - they certainly made an impressive noise!
My DIY tyres worked fine.
The bike was a slow sluggish one, so commuting speed was down, but I rode it as though it was summer conditions. Even able to get out of the saddle and honk up to high speed on snowy/icy roads.
The only roads I hated were the ones where car tyres had formed ruts, which had re-frozen. They gave twitchy handling as the bike tracked into them.
If I knew the road was ok, I'd not worry about any form of high speed racing... but where there was a risk of non-smooth ice then the speed does need to be regulated.
This road was about an inch thick in smooth polished ice. I couldn't stand on it to take this photo, but had just ridden up the hill at around 15mph and pulled a stoppy when I got home.
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q273/nuttycyclist/cycling/IMG_1402.jpg)
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The bike is likely to be able to get through conditions that the car isn't, but if I was cycling 20 miles through thick snow, I'd make damned sure I was carrying a moderate amount of emergency kit, you really don't want to find yourself stuck in the middle, with ten miles of walking in the snow to get home.
Indeed, In that sort of situation I'd want some decent walking boots (along with plenty of extra clothing and bike tools and so on) with me. Probably by swapping the SPDs for cage pedals with PowerGrips and wearing the boots, but failing that, I'd bung them in a pannier.
In my experience, it takes fresh snow deeper than the bottom bracket to make walking easier and faster than cycling. It's very very rare (I've never seen it) for that much snow to fall in a couple of hours, which is the time frame between me leaving work and getting home in severe weather.
I pass quite a few broken-down cars last winter, some with people in. They all insisted they were fine and just waiting for a tow. I tried to point out to some of them that it was unlikely the tow truck would make it, and there was a house 800m away. Some of the cars were still there two days later (sans corpses, you morbid lot). :P
Dressed in winter cycling gear, I'm already suitably clothed for coping with the cold. People in cars, OTOH, seem to think a coat and a blanket are enough.
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It's not that the ride is too long, but that the time available is too little..
Exactly this. My commute is 21 miles each way and takes 1 hour 40 minutes on a good day. Doubling this to over 3 hours each way puts it into the not-doable category. Not least because I have only 9 hours between shifts, and so would get less than 3 hours sleep a day between them! I also can't leave my dogs alone for 21 hours out of a 24 hour period repeatedly, they would eat the house!
I have used Schwalbe Marathon Winter studded tyres over the last 2 winters for ~1000km on a ~56km commute - They are slower than slicks but not a huge ammount slower - 22kph vs 24kph on my hilly commute. 2:35 vs 2h20. I just have to accept that these trips will take me 15-20 minutes longer.
I regularly hit 50-55kph on them with no problems or brown pants (yet) - just have to anticipate and slow down in advance of manoevres. Knowing the commute very well after having done it almost 1500 times helps...
You are right, of course. Its the total time taken that limits your commute, not the actual distance. It is a shame you cannot try before you buy, would love to help out but you are a little too far away.
Thanks. I think a winter bike is an N+1 I do needwant anyway at some point. I wonder if I can find something good that could double for all year round non-tarmac kind of stuff and winter commuting.
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There are lots!
You can go down the mtb route, fat hybrid (like a Kaffenback), or tourer (like a surly LHT).
Anything long with a relaxed frame (less twitchy through the bumps).
If you really want to be able to go off-road, look for something that will take 2" or bigger tyres.
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There are lots!
You can go down the mtb route, fat hybrid (like a Kaffenback), or tourer (like a surly LHT).
Anything long with a relaxed frame (less twitchy through the bumps).
If you really want to be able to go off-road, look for something that will take 2" or bigger tyres.
Can all* MTBs take racks for panniers? I need to take a bunch of stuff with me to work.
*without rear sus
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Some racks won't fit round disk brake gubbins, but as ever if you hunt around there's always a solution somewhere
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... You can go down the mtb route, fat hybrid (like a Kaffenback) ...
Believe it or not, the Kaffenback clearance isn't huge! I tried fitting 700C×35 Nokian Hakkapeliitta W106s to mine, admittedly with the mudguards still in place, and whilst it appeared to be OK, when some pressure was put on the wheel, is shifted enough that the studs just caught on the mudguard sometimes. It was mostly that the noise was annoying (when on clear roads), and it would have been OK with the mudguards removed, but I just got the singlespeed snow bike out instead. That bike doesn't have mudguards, but does have a carrier with a semi-solid top, which acts partially like a mudguard and stops a load of crud hitting my bum and back.
There's a lot to be said for a 26" wheeled bike, and disc brakes with this scenario, but as has been said, this can cause some issues with racks, so you need to make sure that this can be resolved. It's not a show stopper, but something which does need to be considered.
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The bike is likely to be able to get through conditions that the car isn't, but if I was cycling 20 miles through thick snow, I'd make damned sure I was carrying a moderate amount of emergency kit, you really don't want to find yourself stuck in the middle, with ten miles of walking in the snow to get home.
Indeed, In that sort of situation I'd want some decent walking boots (along with plenty of extra clothing and bike tools and so on) with me. Probably by swapping the SPDs for cage pedals with PowerGrips and wearing the boots, but failing that, I'd bung them in a pannier.
I rode last winter in walking boots and strapless toe-clips. It was useful after the tape wore through on my DIY tyres and the rear tube expoded, leading to a 6 mile walk home. This year I have some waterproof SPDs, so hopefully I should be ok.
I carried an extra layer, but to be honest, walking at a brisk pace pushing a bike on snow I was warm enough in a baselayer, ss jersey and windproof. Stopping would have been cold though.
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Ok, forget the Kaffenback.
An 80-early 90s mtb frame will do well. A lot of these had rear stays as long as a bus - rubbish for sprinting, but reliable and stable over rough ground. As they aren't disk or suspension-compatible, they sell for relative peanuts on ebay.
See below for perfect example:
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My road bikes seem to manage to keep me upright in most weather. For extreme conditions I have an ancient rigid mtb (cost me 60 quid).
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3456/3267137310_5f5c960c7d.jpg)
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There are lots!
You can go down the mtb route, fat hybrid (like a Kaffenback), or tourer (like a surly LHT).
Anything long with a relaxed frame (less twitchy through the bumps).
If you really want to be able to go off-road, look for something that will take 2" or bigger tyres.
Can all* MTBs take racks for panniers? I need to take a bunch of stuff with me to work.
*without rear sus
From experience a 29er is the best bet, no matter what I did with my MTBs I always hit the panniers with my heels (ok so I have size 10 feet, but still) but my InBred 29er doesn't have that problem, even with my Creek2Peak huge panniers....
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Ok, forget the Kaffenback.
Well, it's not bad for clearance, but it's a hybrid at soul rather than MTB, so whilst it's got moderate clearance, and would be OK with studded tyres and no mudguards, it's probably not as good as a more "traditional" rigid off-roader.
I'd go for disc brakes if price was not a limiting factor, but otherwise a second hand MTB makes a lot of sense. Salted roads aren't going to help with corrosion, so this isn't a place to use your best steel framed bike!
From experience a 29er is the best bet, no matter what I did with my MTBs I always hit the panniers with my heels (ok so I have size 10 feet, but still) but my InBred 29er doesn't have that problem, even with my Creek2Peak huge panniers....
On the other hand, I suspect that it's probably easier to find studded tyres in 26" than 700C (aka 29er).
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On the other hand, I suspect that it's probably easier to find studded tyres in 26" than 700C (aka 29er).
Fair point, and not something I have, to be honest, looked into, as my commute at the moment is all of 0.00 miles.
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On the subject of clearance's beware some MTB's with suspension forks, the cross brace between the stanchions can give as poor clearance as some road bikes. I run a cannondale F2 as the commuter when they get the salt out and the headshok gives good clearance.
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That photo of Nutty's gives me the eebee geebees and makes my toes curl. It's horrible when you're riding along and you suddenly realise you're riding on something like that - it's like I'd imagine I'd feel, staring into the face of a rearing Cobra...
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I rode something like that earlier this year. I was returning home from work, Mrs T rang me to warn me that the road down to our house was "a little slippy". As she is prone to overstatement I thought it meant there was a little of ice on the corner, just before our house.
I got off the train, set off and found the road a bit slippier than when I set off in the morning. As I turned into our road I realised the road looked a bit odd. As I rode along I saw that the whole road, kerb to kerb, some 200m long was one solid sheet of ice. At that point I was halfway along it and it would have been more dangerous for me to get off than to carry on riding it, so that is what I did. All that on fixed too, no studded tyres, just 37mm Marathons!
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Disc cross bike and two sets of wheels, one with winter tyres, the other with slicks ?
It also may be possible to use ISO 622 for summer and ISO 559 wheel sizes to open up the variety of snow/ice tyres available.
I believe that quite a few of the "not proper crossers" (Marin Toscana, Boardman) also have rack attachments.
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I rode/route-checked a substantial part of my Glastonbury 150 in conditions like that - on a road bike (don't recall whether gears or fixed). Yes, it was a bit slidy. The swans on the flooded but frozen fields looked puzzled. The main problem in such conditions is being able to work hard enough to keep warm (it was easy to spin the back wheel, with plenty of sideways potential).
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Last year's winter bike:
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5005/5232044709_29bb045af4_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26008756@N08/5232044709/)
Roadrat (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26008756@N08/5232044709/) by cnarborough (http://www.flickr.com/people/26008756@N08/), on Flickr
Cotic Roadrat with BB7 disc on the front and V brake on the rear (it'll take a rear disc, but I wanted to be able to use a double sided hub). 36/16 fixed gear for maximum reliability and control on ice, but with an 18T freewheel on the other side. 700C Schwalbe Marathon Winter tyres and 45mm SKS guards - there's clearance for up to 46mm tyres without 'guards. For this winter I've got some Power Grip pedal straps so I can wear walking boots instead of SPDs.
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Very nice, Chris.
Except (in the interests of fairness (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=22914.msg1080083#msg1080083)) :
Uneven gap between rear mudguard and tyre
Uneven gap between front mudguard and tyre
Backlighting makes it imposible to tell if tyre logos line up with valve stem or not
Rear light angle
Handlebar angle
Brake lever angle
Gaps in your fence need filling in
Too much snow on your lawn
and :
Photo taken of bike with drive side crank not set vertically downward
Mismatched bottle cages
Rear mudflap missing
plus :
See also rule 12(b)(ii) - Valve stems should both be located at 6 o'clock.
and finally :
Chain's a bit slack!
But apart from that very nice! ;D :demon:
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AND
Check out the tyre tracks.
Admit it, you didn't even ride it, did you? You carried it there.
(not that I'm jealous of people's stable of bikes, oh no)
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That photo of Nutty's gives me the eebee geebees and makes my toes curl. It's horrible when you're riding along and you suddenly realise you're riding on something like that - it's like I'd imagine I'd feel, staring into the face of a rearing Cobra...
That's the road outside the house. I rode that every single time I came home or went out ;D
It's what happens on a major ungritted rat run. The number of cars that got stuck was quite amusing.
Despite my confidence in the tyres, I did get a small tummy butterfly every time I went out (cos of the dropping down the driveway onto that and then having to pull a 90 degree bend left or right dependant on which way I was going). There was always that "are they tyres going to work today" moment. they never let me down though :thumbsup:
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I use my studded tyres on my Bob Jackson tourer. The frame was built with generous clearance in case I wanted to do another Russian Cat. 5 ride. This bike doubles as winter bike. Since most of my snow/ice riding is in the Ardennes I have a few dozen kilometers on asfalt before I get there. All works fine. Drop handlebars and a Schmidt Dynohub add to the pleasure. So getting an old 28 inch tourer with cantilever brakes would be an option for the N+1 winterbike.
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I've got a pair of Nokian studded tyres usually fitted to an old mtb when the snow comes. Mrs Hall now works next door to me and has suggested I find a 406 studded tyre for the front of the Pino and fit one of that pair to the rear, so we can ride in together. What could possibly go wrong?
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http://www.winstanleysbmx.com/product/40010/Schwalbe_Marathon_Winter_20Inch_Spiked_Tyre
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you're not helping/ good spot. Delete as appropriate.
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HHhmmm... must check the windcheetah tyres... if those'd fit it might give me some steering/braking traction... (no spare tyres in garage for DIY versions)
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AND
Check out the tyre tracks.
Admit it, you didn't even ride it, did you? You carried it there.
(not that I'm jealous of people's stable of bikes, oh no)
I did lift it to the gate, but I rode it 12 miles to get to that point, and three miles past there to get to work. I was the first person down the lane that day. :thumbsup:
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Virgin snow! You jammy bugger. Riding or walking through untracked snow is one of the finer pleasures in life.
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Virgin snow! You jammy bugger. Riding or walking through untracked snow is one of the finer pleasures in life.
I managed to do it in South Kensington a couple of years ago, when I cycled home around 11pm, and was one of the few vehicles out on the roads. That was probably the least busy commute I've ever had, and I've cycled my commute at 3am, when it was busier!
Quite a lot of the roads were fresh, simply because the snow was falling quite fast, and I saw less than 100 vehicles between South Ken and Croydon (largely using fairly main roads), which is essentially empty streets for those roads!
It was great fun, although by the next mornings commute, most of it had been compacted down into ruts, and was much much harder to cycle on. :-\
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I went for the off road cycle path when it snowed last year. It didn't get compacted down like the road, so I had reasonably virgin snow for a good fortnight in parts :).
(At that point I was riding the mtb as the studs hadn't arrived).
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Last year I was riding some lanes which were quite well covered in snow. It was impossible to see where the road ended and the field began. The only way to stick to the road was to switch my GPS to the highest resolution and relying on it.
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Last year I was riding some lanes which were quite well covered in snow. It was impossible to see where the road ended and the field began. The only way to stick to the road was to switch my GPS to the highest resolution and relying on it.
I've done that in the fog before now. Flying on instruments onna bicycle....wrong on so many levels.
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OK so I've done the 50 mile run-in on my new Marathon Winters, lost 10 studs along the way, got in touch with Schwalbe, and received an envelope containing replacement studs. Anyone know how on earth I go about getting them in place? Hard to see how I go about fitting something nearly a quarter inch across into a hole the size of a pinhead, grateful for any advice.
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I CAREFULLY used a small flat blade screwdriver. I also ordered a pack of 70 Nokian welly boot studs from Amazon that came with a stud putter-inner.
In both cases, a small amount of saliva helped.
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For something cheap and cheerful as an N+1 that can do offroad, Winter rough stuff etc, you could pick up a Specialised Crosstrail, or something similar with rigid forks. The disc brake is on the chainstay so racks aren't a problem and you can mount big mudguards as well. Whether it's a 700c hybrid or a 29er, as long as it's disc brake, you can also run 26" wheels. So you could have a spare cheapo wheelset lying around with the studded tyres on.
I'm thinking about this for my bikes and, as I run hub gears, just running them as SS with the studded wheels. I could use the same spare wheelset for either bike, thanks to disc brakes. If you have gears then you'd need to switch the cassette over, which doesn't take long.
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I CAREFULLY used a small flat blade screwdriver. I also ordered a pack of 70 Nokian welly boot studs from Amazon that came with a stud putter-inner.
In both cases, a small amount of saliva helped.
Yep, did the trick thanks.
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Rear light angle
Handlebar angle
Brake lever angle
Gaps in your fence need filling in
Rear light angle is correct: it's a cateye AU100, and the join between the body and lens sections should not be vertical.
Standard brake lever angles don't apply to non standard Midge bars.
It's a gate, not a fence.
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Rear light angle is correct: it's a cateye AU100
So it is. Yes, the angle is correct - the reflector part of the light is vertical. An excellent light.
d.
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For something cheap and cheerful as an N+1 that can do offroad, Winter rough stuff etc, you could pick up a Specialised Crosstrail, or something similar with rigid forks. The disc brake is on the chainstay so racks aren't a problem and you can mount big mudguards as well. Whether it's a 700c hybrid or a 29er, as long as it's disc brake, you can also run 26" wheels. So you could have a spare cheapo wheelset lying around with the studded tyres on.
That's what I did... 200 quid basic cross trail from ebay with rim brakes.
Nice sturdy frame, rubbish wheels and heavy suspensions + very abrasive brakepads (changed immediately). Now fitted with marathon winters. I resisted the urge to replace wheels or forks to make them fixed as my aim was to keep it cheap, and use it to cycle to the local shops with paniers without too much fear of it being stolen, or pull the kids trailer, or commute when it snows (if ever).
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For reference, I've found a source of replacement studs for Marathon Winters:
http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k/a57963/details.html
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I got replacement studs from Schwalbe for nothing.
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Even better :thumbsup:
(Found those while searching for something else.)
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Previous post was from my phone.
I lost quite a few studs in not a lot of miles, so wrote to Schwalbe UK, asking if this was normal.
The response was "No, but the poor condition of UK roads damages the tyres rapidly and could I give them an address so they could post replacement studs"
The studs are easy to insert. Wet the tyre, grip end of studs with needle nose pliers and work them into the hole.
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I fitted my Marathon Winters yesterday - there appear to be three studs missing from what I think was the front wheel, and none from the back. Not enough to worry about yet, but they've only done a few hundred miles.
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I think it is recommended to gently break in studded tyres before using them in anger:
http://www.suomityres.fi/w106.html
"BREAK-IN ADVICE FOR STUDDED TYRES:
Ride approx. 50km (30miles) on road surfaces. Avoid rapid acceleration and hard braking.
Careful break-in will reduce stud loosing."
AFAIK, the reason for this is that the studs are lubricated when the machine inserts them in the tyre, so until this lubrication is worn off, the studs are prone to fall off when stressed by hard breaking or riding in ruts.
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Avoiding acceleration and hard braking is good advice for studded tyres, since you will lose studs slowly anyway, and obviously the harder the forces on the studs, from any acceleration or deacceleration, the more this is exacerbated.
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I lost loads of studs from my Marathon Winters when they were new last year, and got an envelope of free spares by filling in the "contact" us form on the Schwalbe website. Bit of persistence with a pair of needle nose pliers and they went in fine - technique is a little hard to explain but quite easy to get the knack of. Basically shove the "brim" of the stud in sideways (edge-on) to start with then twist it down into place.
Just refitted them this evening. Less swearing than last year - VAR tyre lever helped :thumbsup:
Speaking to a guy in a bike shop last year - he said he discovered the studs came out when he tried a track stand ...
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(To save me reading all 36 pages of this thread)
1. Do I remember rightly that there is a 700x28 studded tyre? Got a link?
2. Marathon Winter: does it have the same thick puncture resistant layer as Marathon Plus? (I'm interested in 700x35/37 of these for another bike).
Thanks.
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1) 700x30 seems to be the skinniest tire.
2) No they use a thinner version according to Schwalbe webside (http://www.schwalbe.com/gbl/en/produkte/spike_tires/produkt/?ID_Einsatzbereich=13&showAllProducts=true)
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They are built on the Marathon XR and don't have any puncture-resistant layer.
Really not puncture-resistant at all.
AFAIK, the reason for this is that the studs are lubricated when the machine inserts them in the tyre, so until this lubrication is worn off, the studs are prone to fall off when stressed by hard breaking or riding in ruts.
Nothing to do with lubrication (water is the lube for rubber anyway). The studs literally bed in. When new, they protrude quite a bit. Ride a few miles and they settle into the tyre with only the hardened tip protruding.
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I've ordered a couple of 700x30's to try. Since I'm dealing with a bit of ice rather than epic snow here I think they could be ideal for the Pompetamine to wear in colder weather. The 35mm ones I already have probably have more studs than is necessary plus not a huge amount of mudguard clearance so I'm thinking these ones will be better. Starbike.com have them for £56 a pair including delivery to the UK.
I'm considering sticking the 35mm ones on my son's old Kona Smoke hybrid bike he doesn't use any more and leaving them permanently on it so I have something to use when I suddenly want ice tyres for short journeys. The frame is large and a bit big for me really but I could probably make it work. Simonp could also then ride it if necessary.
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I'll be interested to hear how you get on with the 700x30 tyres. I currently use a mountain bike with 26x1.75 Marathon Winters during the cold months, but in Bath last year I think there were only two days where I actually really needed them. The year before however, they were worth their weight in gold (close on to how much they actually weigh).
But it would be good to see how these narrow less extreme ones work - I'd much rather carry on riding my Charge Mixer through the winter with its hub gear and hub dynamo...
Has anyone noticed that also new for this year are some extra-wide Marathon Winters: 26x2.00 and 28x2.00? Might be good for someone with a frame with plenty of clearance wanting a slightly less harsh ride.
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Nokian also do a 30mm version, called the A10 (well it also has a very long name in Finnish but I can't spell it :-[)
They've been around (if not widely avaliable) for a few years, and has fewer studs still, so if anyone can find a review of them they may help you assess the new Schwalbe tyres.
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I can give you a review of them as I have ridden them in both 559 and 622 rim sizes.
The A10 are a hybrid tyre design with a solid centre ridge and a reduced number of studs (70-80 IIRC). They are relatively smooth rolling, as much as one would expect from such a hybrid tyre. The depth of the tread is not great - more on this later.
Performance: On ice at moderate speed in an upright orientation they are fine. I towed 2 kids in a trailer up a 1:10 hill on sheet ice with them. If you are a pootling utility cyclist they are great. By ice I mean sheet ice, heavy frost, refrozen hardpack snow, that sort of thing. DO NOT try to go round corners fast as you will then be onto the tyre shoulder which has a lack of studs. Shortly after this you will be on your own shoulder. They are great for what they do.
Snow: As mentioned upthread they are quite a shallow tread. This means that anything more than a light dusting of snow and they will ball up and your wheels will spin. In snow like that knobblies will be better. They are as good a snow tyre as you would expect from the compromise tread design, ie sub-optimal but nowhere near as bad as a slick tyre.
As for longevity - i think they were one of the first Nokian winter designs. I rode them in the late 90's and one of the pairs were picked up cheap at a jumble sale (£1 per tyre :) ) so had been around for a while before that.
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How are people contacting schwalbe to get the replacement studs? I see the contact form on their UK website but it specifically says not for warranty issues. Is that the right one anyway?
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Currently I'm using some Nokian W106 which have the right compromise for me between rolling resistance on road and knobbles for off road.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8348/8239998151_32ff09ac87_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidmam/8239998151/)
tyre choice today: nokian studs. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidmam/8239998151/) by davidmamartin (http://www.flickr.com/people/davidmam/), on Flickr
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I've put the Marathon Winters back on the Roadrat
No proper ice in Devon yet but it is supposedly getting colder this week
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I used Marathon Winters for the past 2 years. They are very good on ice, but you need to get the tyre pressure right.
However, on frozen slush they are pretty average, to downright scary (depending on the degree of the crown on the road).
They are however better than not having ice tyres. I keep them on well into the new year until the threat of ice has lifted. Love the sound, love the security, the weight and drag simply mean I get a mean workout through the winter.
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I've got some of these, but never had occasion to use them yet. Given that I normally inflate a 700c 28 tyre to about 110psi (I'm a fairly big chap!) what sort of pressure should I be looking at on 700c 35 studded Marathons? I see 60 psi mentioned upthread, which seems to me almost flat!
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60 psi in a 35mm tyre feels harder than 60 psi in a 28mm tyre. It's actualy quite firm. However, the equivalent of 60 psi for an average chap would be something like 80 psi for a big chap.
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I've got some of these, but never had occasion to use them yet. Given that I normally inflate a 700c 28 tyre to about 110psi (I'm a fairly big chap!) what sort of pressure should I be looking at on 700c 35 studded Marathons? I see 60 psi mentioned upthread, which seems to me almost flat!
Phil I put mine back on last week and I am 14.5 stone running them at the max 60psi :)
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How are people contacting schwalbe to get the replacement studs? I see the contact form on their UK website but it specifically says not for warranty issues. Is that the right one anyway?
That's how I contacted them (about a year ago). I don't remember it saying anything about not being for warranty issues back then, but it might have done. It took a few weeks for them to get back to me (said they had problems with the website) but when they did, it was a helpful email followed by quick despatch of a small packet of studs.
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I've got some of these, but never had occasion to use them yet. Given that I normally inflate a 700c 28 tyre to about 110psi (I'm a fairly big chap!) what sort of pressure should I be looking at on 700c 35 studded Marathons? I see 60 psi mentioned upthread, which seems to me almost flat!
Last year I pumped mine up to 85psi(ish), which is the upper range for the 35-622 Marathon Winters, for most of the time. If if does become icy, then you should drop the pressure to nearer the bottom end (35psi), which makes them harder work to use, but obviously increases the contact area of the tyre significantly.
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However, on frozen slush they are pretty average, to downright scary (depending on the degree of the crown on the road).
Studded tyres are excellent on frozen slush. The fact that excellent means merely sketchy and occasionaly scary, rather than a complete non starter is bound to colour some opinions.
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OK, I'm a complete N0ob when it comes to spiky tyres. I'll need some advice.
Used to ride all year long on "normal" Marathons, but things seem to have become more icy over the last couple of winters. On top of that, I was knocked off earliert this year & have to admit to having lost a lot of confidence. Have also moved house since I last did big miles... :-[ :-[ :-[ But I figure now's the time & if I can make it through a winter I'll be back on. So I'm considering fitting winter tyres to give me some security.
Current summer/autumn commuting setup: Single speed 44 x 16. Steel framed Genesis Day 1. 700c with disc brakes. 28mm Marathons ("normal" not "plus")
My commute: 12.5 miles each way. Not too hilly. In summer 45 minutes to work, 55 minutes back. Time is a bit of an issue: unlikely to cycle if it will take an hour or more to get in. Going home is less of an issue.
Likely winter conditions: High chance of sheet ice for first mile (level but may be too slippy to walk) then gritted roads but with patches of ice where water runs off fields. I'm more likely to drive if things get really bad in terms of snow or slush. :-[
Opinions needed:
1. 35mm Marathon winters seem to be the most popular choice here. How am I likely to find them given my commute, in particular that I'd actually be spending most miles on gritted roads?
2. I have done the commute on semi-slick 40mm tyres onna MTB in the past and found that do-able. Is my road bike with studded Marathons going to be harder work than that?
3. Suitable gearing for the single-speed? 40 x 16?
Thanks!
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My commute: 12.5 miles each way. Not too hilly. In summer 45 minutes to work, 55 minutes back. Time is a bit of an issue: unlikely to cycle if it will take an hour or more to get in. Going home is less of an issue.
I've used marathon winters on my commute. Similar road conditions to yourself (apart from when snowpocalypse hits), mostly bit of sheet ice, gritted, sheet ice.
25miles takes me 1hr30 in summer, 1hr35-40 in winter. With spiked tyres that stretches to 1hr40-45. So adds maybe 10min.
2. I have done the commute on semi-slick 40mm tyres onna MTB in the past and found that do-able. Is my road bike with studded Marathons going to be harder work than that?
Yes. They are very heavy - I wouldn't like to use them on a high-gears SS or fixed, as moving off will be very hard work. You can accelerate gradually to a decent rolling speed - I found I dropped from 30kph to 27kph.
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1. 35mm Marathon winters seem to be the most popular choice here. How am I likely to find them given my commute, in particular that I'd actually be spending most miles on gritted roads?
If they're pumped up hard, they roll ok. They're still b***dy heavy though. And you need to let the air out a bit for maximum grip on ice.
2. I have done the commute on semi-slick 40mm tyres onna MTB in the past and found that do-able. Is my road bike with studded Marathons going to be harder work than that?
Probably a little bit.
3. Suitable gearing for the single-speed? 40 x 16?
Depends how you're going to use them. If you do like me and leave them on for 2-3 months continuously, higher pressure most days, but dropping pressure on icier days, then I maybe wouldn't drop it by quite that much. If on the other hand you have an alternative bike or wheels for the better-looking days, and only ride the studs on icier days, then lower makes more sense.
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On the gearing - I currently use 38x16 with 38mm snow studs which is OK, but harder work than with the 35mm marathons I've also had on there. The extra resistance isn't that surprising though as the tyres are heavier and have a more agressive tread pattern (more like an old Marathon XR) and I use a low SS gear anyway because Cumbria isn't flat.
I got the rear tyre sliding last week when I stood up to climb a short hill (thus unloading the tyre). That's about 50m at 10-12% though so not normal commuting conditions I'd guess.
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I reckon that compared to slick tyres of a similar size (although not weight!) they reduce your speed by roughly 2mph, although that obviously depends a bit on what speed you normally cycle at, and the pressures. They can have a slightly odd feel on steering, since the weight is definitely heavier and when you turn the steering, there's a noticeable gyro effect from the heavier tyres on the way that the wheel turns.
The reason why Winter Marathons are popular is simply ease of availability. They're generally relatively easy to find in the UK, unlike many of the other even more specialised studded tyres. If you're willing to purchased them from a mainland Europe company, then there's a greater choice, but often it'll cost you more, and delivery will take longer.
Having said that, Winter Marathons aren't a bad choice, since they'll work OK on normal road, and provide a moderate amount of grip on ice and snow. Most of the other tyres are designed to deal with even more snow, and have more tread. There are a handful of tyres with less studs, designed for marginally easier use when there's less snow about.
eg Hakkapelitta W106 tyres (http://www.bike-components.de/products/info/p6004_Hakkapelitta-W106-Draht-Spikereifen-.html) (on bike-components.de).
See Peter White Cycles Studded Tyres page (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.asp) for more English (USA) description of the studded tyres available.
No studded tyre is likely to be as easy as an unstudded one. They're mostly quite chunky tyres, with tread, so are much heavier, and would have a higher rolling resistance based on their tread alone.
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I reckon that compared to slick tyres of a similar size (although not weight!) they reduce your speed by roughly 2mph, although that obviously depends a bit on what speed you normally cycle at, and the pressures.
I find that at max pressure there's very little in it. Slower acceleration, certainly, and they're a bit scary on corners, but my loss of speed in winter seems to be more a function of cold rather than the tyres.
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I find moving from a 23mm slick (road bike) to a 38mm snow stud (MTB) has a MASSIVE effect on either:
1) speed OR
2) my ability not to fall asleep at work
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I am a bit shit on them riding uphill, presumably due to the weight and extra drag. I don't notice that much difference on the flat or downhill other than the noise.
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Mine arrived today, fitted this evening with ease ( which was a surprise ). I was looking forward to a quick test. They make a nice fire crackle noise.
It's been icy every night this week but tonight it absolutely pishing down here :(
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Mine arrived today, fitted this evening with ease ( which was a surprise ). I was looking forward to a quick test. They make a nice fire crackle noise.
It's been icy every night this week but tonight it absolutely pishing down here :(
Simmilar here, the tyres arrived yesterday and fitted last night with no major issues, except remembering which way the rear wheel rotates and which cog I was going to use. :-[
Today is gloriously sunny and the ride home looks like it will be Ice free. ::-)
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Mine arrived today, fitted this evening with ease ( which was a surprise ). I was looking forward to a quick test. They make a nice fire crackle noise.
It's been icy every night this week but tonight it absolutely pishing down here :(
Simmilar here, the tyres arrived yesterday and fitted last night with no major issues, except remembering which way the rear wheel rotates and which cog I was going to use. :-[
Today is gloriously sunny and the ride home looks like it will be Ice free. ::-)
I'll be testing them tonight, hopefully!
If there's no ice just whack 70psi in them. They are supposed to be a ball ache under 50psi up hills.
We'll all be like racing whippets come spring :)
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It's been icy every night this week but tonight it absolutely pishing down here :(
Today is gloriously sunny and the ride home looks like it will be Ice free. ::-)
That means they're working.
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We'll all be like racing whippets come spring :)
I fricking hope so. They're adding 12% time to my (already slow) ride to work. I can't wait till the weather gets lovely and I try to ride in on a nice bike. Bet it'll take me half the time.
I was very 'anti' them, but I think I'm a convert. I'll carry on riding the ice bike till there's absolutely no risk. They were very surefooted yesterday, it was me who was wibbling.
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Looks like rain again here, I'm still going to try them tonight.
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My new 700x30 ones have arrived today from Germany. That only took 2 days :o
It's 8C out there at the moment so I don't feel inclined to try them yet, I will leave the 35mm ones on the winter bike for now and ride another bike if it's this warm.
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I've just tested my 26x1.75 winters, hooray!
In the rain, boooooo!
I think they'll be great on ice but they're bloody hard work. I only use the mtb on the road for rough weather so it can stay hanging up until the ice appears. Even at 70 psi they are a hard slog on long climbs, I did have a strong headwind too which didn't help. Also cornering is fun at speed, not!
I noticed a strange drawing pin in the tyre noise when I was close to home, not the normal crackly noise ( which I love ). It turned out to be a spike just popping out which I easily pushed back in when I got home.
Overall I think they're worth the effort for the safety on ice but I wouldn't fancy riding them daily, I don't know if the 700s are as cumbersome but they'll be staying on over winter.
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Has anyone tried the 700x30 studded tyres yet ?
I'm considering getting a pair in case the ice is still around next weekend (Mere 200 audax).
Come to that, has anyone ridden 200km on studded tyres ?
The Disco has clearance for the full fat 700x35 tyres but I thought the lighter ones might be worth a try.
So far in MCR we've had a light dusting of snow but, with the forecast suggesting freezing temperatures all week, I'm worried that it might be a little slippery for a long time.
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Has anyone tried the 700x30 studded tyres yet ?
I'm considering getting a pair in case the ice is still around next weekend (Mere 200 audax).
Come to that, has anyone ridden 200km on studded tyres ?
The Disco has clearance for the full fat 700x35 tyres but I thought the lighter ones might be worth a try.
So far in MCR we've had a light dusting of snow but, with the forecast suggesting freezing temperatures all week, I'm worried that it might be a little slippery for a long time.
I've tried them and they seem to work extremely well.
I haven't done enough miles on the 700x30's yet to form an opinion about rolling resistance. They are significantly lighter than the 35's.
I've not done a 200k but did several 100k+ rides on the 700x35's last winter. I would have been well within the audax time limit but more knackered than on normal tyres. My winter bike is heavier than my other bikes though so it isn't just the tyres making it harder work.
So far I would highly recommend the new 700x30's especially when it's ice you're worried about not deep snow.
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I wish I'd bought some of the 30s for the fixed. The big balloons (ok, 35s) on the toured are definitely overkill for London's puny snowpocalypse.
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I wish I'd bought some of the 30s for the fixed. The big balloons (ok, 35s) on the toured are definitely overkill for London's puny snowpocalypse.
Yebbut you'll be glad of them when you moveback home :)
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How about clip on studs for tyres: -
http://www.fastcoexist.com/1681184/a-sticky-tire-for-people-crazy-enough-to-bike-in-the-winter#1
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If those are durable, they will be awesome.
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Looks a bit scary, each one seems to be made from 8-10 inch strips linked together, and those studs look like sledgehammers to crack walnuts.
(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/3010/capturexop.jpg)
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There appears to be a number of different versions - I think that the design is evolving. This is from the designers website (http://www.cesarvanrongen.nl/projecten/sneeuwketting.html):
(http://www.cesarvanrongen.nl/beelden/projecten/sneeuwketting/sneeuwketting_5.jpg)
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Can't see his website, not Firefox friendly.
Says somewhere that they demoed fitting them in less than ten minutes. But I can change tyres quicker than that anyway, so what do they give me that a set of Marathon Winters don't? The number of studs and the pattern in that picture looks a bit crap compared to the studded tyres I've seen but as you say it's an evolving design. Aside from that unless they're very cheap, which seems unlikely, what's the point?
Maybe they can be made foldable, stick them in your commuter bag for emergencies, that would be useful.
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Maybe they can be made foldable, stick them in your commuter bag for emergencies, that would be useful.
See here:
http://vimeo.com/50972549
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Can't see his website, not Firefox friendly.
Says somewhere that they demoed fitting them in less than ten minutes. But I can change tyres quicker than that anyway, so what do they give me that a set of Marathon Winters don't? The number of studs and the pattern in that picture looks a bit crap compared to the studded tyres I've seen but as you say it's an evolving design. Aside from that unless they're very cheap, which seems unlikely, what's the point?
Maybe they can be made foldable, stick them in your commuter bag for emergencies, that would be useful.
You can change tyres in less than 10 minutes. The average Dutch city cyclist has to go to his bikeshop to have the tyres changed. On a typical Dutch citybike it would take me half an hour or upto an hour depending on the condition and the style of the chainguard.
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And to be fair, the demo vid on the website shows him fitting the "chains" to a front wheel in about a minute.
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Vimeo/Quicktime sucks, I can't see any of them. But the front wheel alone isn't much use, have to look at the time for the pair. But then again if Ivo is right and changing a Dutch rear tyre really is such a mission then I could see why they'd go for it.
Oh and now the video in Ivo's post works so I see what you mean. Again, a front wheel alone isn't going to be much use on ice.
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They look like a truly excellent idea to me. Fit per wheel in a minute, remove in the same time I guess, maybe quicker. Folds relatively small so can be easily accommodated in a pannier for a winter commuter so they can be deployed if they become necessary, i.e. when it buckets down with snow whilst you're at work.
Very visible too.
I'd really like some of them. Hope they will be produced and in varying sizes so I can have a pair for my 26 inch wheeled commuter.
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Over on CC they are wondering about Brompton sized varients
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Over on CC they are wondering about Brompton sized varients
Don't they always.
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They look like a truly excellent idea to me. Fit per wheel in a minute, remove in the same time I guess, maybe quicker. Folds relatively small so can be easily accommodated in a pannier for a winter commuter so they can be deployed if they become necessary, i.e. when it buckets down with snow whilst you're at work.
Very visible too.
I'd really like some of them. Hope they will be produced and in varying sizes so I can have a pair for my 26 inch wheeled commuter.
+1 to that.
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Over on CC they are wondering about Brompton sized varients
It's a major pita that you can't get studded tyres to fit a Brompton. I had to walk several stretches of the main road route to the station this morning because I didn't fancy my chances of staying upright on two wheels. The back route would have been impossible.
d.
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On a typical Dutch citybike it would take me half an hour or upto an hour depending on the condition and the style of the chainguard.
I can vouch for this – the chainguard and backpedal brake/hub gears do complicate things. Bromptons are a little easier but still a major faff compared to a standard bike (the hub gear version anyway, I haven’t tried the others).
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I used the bike this morning (expecting the roads to be worse than they were for cars). It was mostly OK, but getting into other cyclists' ruts in the snow (I reckon about 10 had used the cycle path before me since the last snow) led to some rather alarming fish-tailing. Dropping tyre pressures a but helped, but I found it best to stick to wider tracks or fresh snow
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Lovely ride in this morning - minimal traffic, and the gritters and snow ploughs had done amazing work given 10cm fell and the airport at the top of the hill had to close. Marathon winter only on the front was sufficient, and helped keep the pace up.
(http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/32175_10100436707421990_576916552_n.jpg)
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Awesome picture, DrM!
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Lovely ride in this morning - minimal traffic, and the gritters and snow ploughs had done amazing work given 10cm fell and the airport at the top of the hill had to close. Marathon winter only on the front was sufficient, and helped keep the pace up.
(http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/32175_10100436707421990_576916552_n.jpg)
Looks like the A58 near Collingham. If it is, we may have even passed each other.
I rode on Ribmos - they weren't the best choice. Marathon Winters going on tonight.
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Looks like the A58 near Collingham. If it is, we may have even passed each other.
I rode on Ribmos - they weren't the best choice. Marathon Winters going on tonight.
Nope, A660 between Otley and Leeds.
Have to say, I'm loving just having one on the front. The rolling resistance killed me when I ran them as a pair.
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If I had some treaded tyres, I would probably just use those. Not really enough snow and ice to justify the MWs. However the only alternative I have to MWs is Ribmos.
If I go the A64 route tomorrow I'll have about 5-6miles of cyclepath which will be ice and snow.
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If I had some treaded tyres, I would probably just use those. Not really enough snow and ice to justify the MWs. However the only alternative I have to MWs is Ribmos.
If I go the A64 route tomorrow I'll have about 5-6miles of cyclepath which will be ice and snow.
The main reason I haven't dragged any of the road-going Genesii out is that there's no way in hell I'd use Ribmos in anything remotely icy - they're fine in wet weather, but I imagine that the central ridge would be an absolute liability on ice. They certainly don't cope with mud very well(!)
Instead, I'm sticking with the more hardpack-oriented tyres on Pugsley and the Green Machine1
1 - 'course, if I had £5002 going begging I could get a pair of 45NRTH Dillingers for Pugsley.
2 - this is not a typo. No sirree, bob.
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Out again today. New discoveries:
Marathon Winters work well on the patches of black ice that inhabit the bus/cycle lanes on the Bristol Road, as well as the diesel slick down the middle of the outside lane.
While they do a reasonable job of maintaining a grip on the re-frozen packed snow on minor roads, that doesn't stop you from tram-lining on the ruts at junctions.
SPD/platform pedals are useful when everything gets clogged with snow. You can get up to speed by riding on the platforms, then give the SPD side a kicking to clear the blockage.
Just because the bike has traction, doesn't mean your feet do.
It's bloody scary to be in slow moving traffic beside a parking bay, behind a car with an electrical fault that causes the reversing lights to come on instead of the brake lights. It was otherwise covered in snow, so there wasn't a visible Renault or Fiat badge to serve as warning.
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While they do a reasonable job of maintaining a grip on the re-frozen packed snow on minor roads, that doesn't stop you from tram-lining on the ruts at junctions.
Indeed. I get most nervous on them when I need to change direction, especially if I'm going a way that the vehicles haven't.
I've cycled them up roads with hard packed, essentially solid layers of ice. I'd probably fall over if I tried to walk far on that.
They don't work very well on loose snow and ice, typically were there's been some grit and salt, but not much. I've found this at the ends of cycle paths, where they join up to a cleared road or footway, and the transition area can be troublesome.
They're also of limited use on snow which has been trampled through by numerous pedestrians, and then refrozen in an interestingly knobbly fashion, with a tendency to break and/or slip when it's least expected! I've taken to scooting across that sort of thing with one foot on the ground.
I'm wondering what the conditions are going to be like tonight, in That London, because the airports are reporting temperatures between 1°C and 3°C, so no longer freezing. Whilst some of that slushy stuff is going to take a while to go, I suspect a lot will be on its ways towards becoming somewhat more fluid.
The Met Office isn't forecasting colder than 1°C for the very immediate future, although Thursday night / Friday morning has -4°C, and then Saturday (at the very end of the five day forecast) has 5/6°C later in the day, so well into some serious melting by then.
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I like mine on fresh snow. They've been on snow over six inches deep without trouble at 35psi.
As already said, they're a bit iffy on hard pack snow but great on hard ice for some reason. I'm having a couple of nights off the bike now because the country lanes and tracks use are still covered in snow which is now compacted! I'm using the 26x2 ( or is it 1.75? ) and they don't tram line too badly.
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In case anyone missed it (posted in HYBOT), this road was the limit of my studded tyres:
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8359/8388596483_7bb06c3545.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/40735552@N05/8388596483/)
2013-01-17 12.32.05 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/40735552@N05/8388596483/) by Pelotonhound (http://www.flickr.com/people/40735552@N05/), on Flickr
Hard polished ruts with lots of edges. It might have been better if I'd let the pressure down a little at the front.
Tonight, the roads are mainly white hard-pack, but there are still plenty of places where there are hard edges underneath to take the front wheel off in an exciting direction.
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As already said, they're a bit iffy on hard pack snow but great on hard ice for some reason.
I assume it's because hardpacked snow is more likely to shear. Not much you can do about that, unless you've spikes long enough to dig in. Or *really* wide tyres.
I'm using the 26x2 ( or is it 1.75? ) and they don't tram line too badly.
Yeah, I'm sure a wider tyre would help (as would a mountain bike). I'm on the 700x35, which get rather skittery on the lumpy stuff.
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My tyres are probably better than my snow riding skills, and would probably have been better had I lowered the pressure for the icy sections. But they are mainly the start and end of the ride, with perfectly clear roads for the 19km in between, so I've compromised.
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In case anyone missed it (posted in HYBOT), this road was the limit of my studded tyres:
Pretty-much my experience too.
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Yeah, I'm sure a wider tyre would help (as would a mountain bike). I'm on the 700x35, which get rather skittery on the lumpy stuff.
I can't get the 35s on my fixed :(
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I can't either, so I use the 35s on the tourer for snow and ice. I think I could fit the new 30s on the fixed, which I'd consider for next year, but fixed can be awkward on snow.
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Are the 30s close to 30mm or more like a 35mm+ ? I've not seen them yet so don't know if they'll fit.
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Are the 30s close to 30mm or more like a 35mm+ ? I've not seen them yet so don't know if they'll fit.
They are pretty close to 30mm IMO, I will go measure them for you on my bike and report back shortly!
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Much appreciated!
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Where can you get 30s from? Even Rose don't seem to have them. :(
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Are the 30s close to 30mm or more like a 35mm+ ? I've not seen them yet so don't know if they'll fit.
They are pretty close to 30mm IMO, I will go measure them for you on my bike and report back shortly!
I've measured them and they are very close to 30mm on.
One picture didn't show the ruler so I took another underexposed one. My photography skillz=null.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/feistyfeline/DAD0676A-6BA5-41F4-86D9-34F4FEFB7E8A-1653-000001E01B5A59DB.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/feistyfeline/F8F48FB8-AF0A-4EF0-BACF-4E2BBBCE2B06-1653-000001E018339DFD.jpg)
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Where can you get 30s from? Even Rose don't seem to have them. :(
I got mine from starbike.com
they are the 622-30 118 spike version on this page and arrived in only 2 days at a total of 66.80 euros for a pair including shipping!
http://www.starbike.com/p/Schwalbe-Winter-KevlarGuard-5181-en
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Thanks Feline!
I've got a standard 30 in the shed, I'll see if it fits my frame and guards tomorrow. It'll be nice to have an alternative ride for icy conditions instead of the MTb.
Edit. Ta for the link too!
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Where can you get 30s from? Even Rose don't seem to have them. :(
http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k1041/a85423/winter-118-spikes-28-x-120-wire.html
At €22 a piece I'm tempted
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Sore thumbs.
Winter Marathons fitted.
Snow and ice melting
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Where can you get 30s from? Even Rose don't seem to have them. :(
I got mine from starbike.com
they are the 622-30 118 spike version on this page and arrived in only 2 days at a total of 66.80 euros for a pair including shipping!
http://www.starbike.com/p/Schwalbe-Winter-KevlarGuard-5181-en
Thanks. :thumbsup:
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Sore thumbs.
Winter Marathons fitted.
Snow and ice melting
Good!
Buy another couple of pairs and get them fitted too. It should bring the temperature up to about 15* ;)
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Where can you get 30s from? Even Rose don't seem to have them. :(
http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k1041/a85423/winter-118-spikes-28-x-120-wire.html
At €22 a piece I'm tempted
I'm not, even if they are doing Nokian Hakkas (Hakkapellata, as-was) in 29er sizes for a sensible price.
Last time I ordered studded tyres they went onto back-order almost immediately and didn't turn up until the snow had well and truly thawed.
Not gonna fall for that one again ;)
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I can't get the 35s on my fixed :(
I ended up building a On-One Pompino for this reason, and because my old fixed, based on an SJS training frame, was getting on a bit. I've just scrapped that SJS frame because the BB corroded in and the right chain-stay was rusting through.
In the event, with help from the forum, I've also got a spare frame back into action, so I'll probably end up facing next winter with the On-One kitted out ahead of time with studded tyres, and the other bike for normal riding.
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What sort of clearances has the pompino got?
I'm thinking of replacing my current singlespeed with one but I would need to be able to get the Snow studs on it and I think 38mm with tread and studs will be too much for it.
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Hard polished ruts with lots of edges. It might have been better if I'd let the pressure down a little at the front.
Tonight, the roads are mainly white hard-pack, but there are still plenty of places where there are hard edges underneath to take the front wheel off in an exciting direction.
Side roads here are similar. I'm running 35psi in the front, and 90psi on the M+ on the back. Coping pretty well with the uncleared stuff, albeit I have less than a km of it. It's the 15%+ stuff I'm finding interesting - slid out of my road on Monday with the rear wheel locked, nearly ending up down someone's drive and at their front door.
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Are the 30s close to 30mm or more like a 35mm+ ? I've not seen them yet so don't know if they'll fit.
They are pretty close to 30mm IMO, I will go measure them for you on my bike and report back shortly!
I've measured them and they are very close to 30mm on.
One picture didn't show the ruler so I took another underexposed one. My photography skillz=null.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/feistyfeline/DAD0676A-6BA5-41F4-86D9-34F4FEFB7E8A-1653-000001E01B5A59DB.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/feistyfeline/F8F48FB8-AF0A-4EF0-BACF-4E2BBBCE2B06-1653-000001E018339DFD.jpg)
Thanks for measuring them but I can't get them to fit :(
They rub the frame even with the wheel on the very rear of the track ends ( the brakes don't actually meet the rim that far back either ). Looks like I'll have to stick with the MTb for snow and ice.
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What sort of clearances has the pompino got?
I'm using Marathon Winter 35s and those are OK (with guards). I've just taken a couple of links out because of chain stretch, so the wheel is quite far forwards and only just fits. Normally there would be more clearance. Still perfectly suitable though.
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My Pompetamine has clearance for 35mm with guards. The geometry is slightly different though.
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I've just walked past an LBS - Bike, on the Triangle in Bristol - on my way home from a certain emporium of fine comestibles, and though the shop was closed, there in the window was a spiked tyre. In fact studded might be a better description, as the metal projections looked more rounded than sharp, although they also don't look too different from the ones in Feline's photo up there. The studs are only on the shoulders of the tread though, nothing in the middle. Continental. A mountain bike tyre on display, I've no idea if they also have road sizes. £45.
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Many tyre manufacturers make studded tyres. The main difference between studded tyres seems to be the number of studs they have, whether they have the studs in two or four rows, and the degree of tread that they have.
Some of the more lightly studded tyres only have two rows, and they're probably separated further than the tyres with four rows on them. The Marathon Winters that Feline showed (700×30) only appear to have two rows, whereas my 26×1.75 ones have four rows, and iirc more studs (200 vs 118 in the 700×30 tyres). The 700×35 tyres apparently have 240 studs, so it sounds like they've mostly just reduced the number of studs on the 30 wide tyres, by removing a couple or rows (which also make sense if the tyres are narrower).
The studs are actually quite low profile, people on here who have made there own studded tyres, typically with screws fitted to tyres, have ended up with just the very tip of the screws poking through the tyre.
For use in worse (ie more snowy) conditions, the tyres typically have a lot more tread, which is what you need for snow, the studs really only deal with ice or very compacted snow, which behaves a lot like ice. Things like Marathon Winters are meant for ice and light snow conditions.
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Re: the Schwalbe tyres with 2 rows of studs, as shown upthread by feline. it seems that Schwalbe have produced a new range of tyres branded "Winter" with only the middle two rows of studs, reserving the "Marathon Winter" branding for the four row versions.
The blurb on the shop page linked by mcshroom sums it up:-
Reduced to its essentials.
With half the amount of spikes, the Winter provides excellent control on glassy ice. Only in extreme cornering is its big brother Marathon Winter superior.
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Nearly lost the bike earlier, hard leant over cornerning on a Schwalbe Snow Stud tyre on dry tarmac. Must admit it's the fastest I've taken a turn that tight and obviously rode up onto the shoulder studs which went sliiiiiiiip.
Glad it didn't go properly though as I was turning with another cyclist and not sure there was that much room between us.
Still they are ace in the conditions they're meant for, user error here rather than a fault of the tyres.
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Must admit the marathon winters don't like over-zealous use on tarmac either. Handling changes with the lean angle as you move between rows of studs. And I've lost a few studs in a front wheel skid on damp tarmac due to user error. (No I didn't touch the brakes)
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Yes, on sharp corners clearly the inside and outside of the tyre are going at different speeds, so you do risk loosing studs. I've only got one corner like that on my commute, and it feels deeply uncomfortable, even going around slowly. I'm hoping the forecast will be such that can I swap back from them to the Marathon Pluses this weekend. Currently the forecast says 12°C by Tuesday, which would make the Marathon Winters a mite overkill!
Interesting that Schwalbe have a distinction between Winters and Marathon Winters. I wonder if they'll ever produce any narrower wheels than the current 30s? (which I think are already the narrowest available).
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If I'd believed the forecast I'd have ridden the fixed. Luckily a) I'd rather be slow than off and b) the fixed has a flat front tyre.
Ice all over the place. I'd've had to walk at least a mile, maybe two.
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My forecast says above zero all week, but back to sub zero next week. I'm taking mine off for now.
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XCWeather has the temperature maybe just touching -1°C on Saturday night, but then back to warmer weather again. Since XCWeather often predicts the temperature much lower than it actually is, this doesn't worry me.
I took my Winter Marathons off last night, and the ride in was so much easier this morning!
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I took my Winter Marathons off last night, and the ride in was so much easier this morning!
+1 :)
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Snow will be back next weekend on the continent, I keep them on (ok, I have more than one bike so I can keep one equipped with studded tyres throughout winter).
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I note that Schalbe now sell a bag of replacement spikes with tool http://www.schwalbe.com/en/zubehoer.html#id-50-replacement-spikes (http://www.schwalbe.com/en/zubehoer.html#id-50-replacement-spikes). But it would cost at least 15 quid or so to get a bag here.
I note that Schwalbe now sell a Winter, which appears to be a Marathon Winter without studs in the outer set of holes. Probably perfectly adequate for those of us using these for protection against black ice.
I note that my Marathon Winters have some studs missing from the centre sets.
Has anybody here tried manually transferring studs from the outside of their Marathon Winters into any missing slots on the inner sets?
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I have a set of the winters (30mm variant) and they don't have the marathon logo ont he side. I assume the puncture protaction is a bit less.
I say assume, as since I got them in December, I haven't had any reason to ride on them ::-)
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I've replaced missing studs on my marathon Winter tyres.
'twas easy.
Wet the tyre and stud.
Hold stud with needle-nose pliers very firmly.
Angle one side of the 'mushroom' head into the hole, twist and push in firmly. Pop, in she goes.
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I bought a pair of Schwalbe Snow Studs (now discontinued I think?) from CRC back in November and have not seen the slightest hint of ice on the road since, so £46 well spent ::-) Anyway I fitted them on the MTB straight away and ran them in 30 miles on tarmac, then used them off road a few times as well, maybe another 50 miles, and lost no studs at all. Possibly next winter I will get to use them in anger, but I have put the ordinary knobblies back on now.
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I don't know how many miles I've done on my MWs, but I was doing a 50mile round-trip commute, 3 days a week. So definitely in the hundreds.
they aren't very puncture-resistant and are a bugger to get off and on when it is really cold.
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You ride on completely shite roads though, don't you mrc?
I've done ~800 miles in 2 winters and have had no punctures and lost 1 stud (that I've noticed).
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I've done maybe 500-600 miles on mine (mostly on reasonably decent roads), and not had a puncture yet. Lost a couple of studs.
I sometimes run Marathon Cross, which is a similar pattern non-studded tyre, and they have a depressing weakness for flints.
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Wet the tyre and stud.
Hold stud with needle-nose pliers very firmly.
Angle one side of the 'mushroom' head into the hole, twist and push in firmly. Pop, in she goes.
Ta muchly.
I've just moved 11 studs from the outer tracks to inner tracks, in probably about that many minutes.
Regarding wear, mine have done about 2500 miles; I left them on for the whole of the first two winters, so I didn't have to mess about swapping. I have since switched to a two-wheelset bike and only ride them when necessary. That said, I think I've probably lost most of the studs not on my main commuting miles, but on extra trips where I didn't know the potholes and got caught unawares. And once when I let the pressure get a bit too low without noticing.
The studs are now looking a bit rounded. The rubber of the tyre itself is bizarrely mint-looking. I haven't had the chance to test the slightly worn studs on decent ice this winter, and would like to find out how much effectiveness has been lost without hurting myself at some point.
No punctures, as far as I remember...
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www.wiggle.co.uk/schwalbe-snow-stud-performance-kevlar-rigid-road-tyre/
20quid 700 x38