Decent cycling satnav app?

[frankenthorn]

The background to this is that I've got a European cycling holiday planned for next year and there are certain legs where I reckon I'm going to want assistance with my navigation (München Flughafen > München Ostbahnhof for a start!).  Now the original plan was to sell my Edge 500 and buy an Edge 810, however the budget's looking a bit tighter than I was hoping for so I'm wondering about using my iPhone for that sort of thing instead?  (Plus I mostly don't need the extra functionality of the Edge 810 so why pay for it?)

Obviously don't want to be downloading large chunks of data whilst aboard, so the standard maps application is out but there are alternatives right?  Obviously battery life is a bit of an issue, but since the hope is to simply to use it for short(isn) specific segments that seems like a manageable one.  Particularly as I have a hub dynamo!

Whatever app I end up with doesn't need to record any kind of track log, as I'll still have the Edge 500 for that.  Paid-for apps are okay, but won't object to suggestions that are free!   

[fhills]

Can't help but thinking that you are making this far more complicated than it needs to be.

Only a matter of time before folks have their veins torn out and replaced by cabling (sorry - in an odd mood).

An Etrex 20 and Open street maps backed by a few decent sheets of road atlas?

Other folks will be along soon with maybe more helpful/detailed advice.

[frankenthorn]

An Etrex 20 and Open street maps backed by a few decent sheets of road atlas?

In what way is carting along an iPhone, an Edge 500 and a yet-to-be-purchased Etrex a reduction in complication?  If purchasing a new GPS is the way I go, I'd imagine that an Edge 810 would be the way I'd go.  However a satnav app aught to be cheaper than either an Etrex or an Edge?  Alternatively if I'm doing the routing in my head off of an GPS-positioned dot on top of OSM then I could do that with the iPhone already!  (Wouldn't even need to download any new apps, just the maps of Bavaria and Austria.)

[rr]

Viewranger app will do this. You can download the maps onto your phone, which avoids the cost and battery consumption of a data connection.
Maps can be free - open street and cycle map or paid for - local os equivalents.
Does not calculate routes, but You can generate them online or on the phone and then follow them. 

[fhills]

Sorry frankenthorn - said I was in an odd mood.

Suppose I'm not a fan of built in batteries - don't the Edges use these?

But of course you may want its performance features.

Also I rather had the idea that an iphone may be a tad delicate for such use whereas the Etrex is relatively cheap as GPSs go, has separate batteries and is tough.

Am also possibly a bit wary of things that "do everything" as you can then end up with a single unit doing a lot of nothing.

all the best anyway - good luck with the trip.

[frankenthorn]

Sorry frankenthorn - said I was in an odd mood.

No problem ...  Upon reflection I suspect my response wasn't the best either!

Suppose I'm not a fan of built in batteries - don't the Edges use these?  But of course you may want its performance features.

Yeah ...  Though the problems I've had with Edges haven't been related to built-in batteries - more due to dropping them onto concrete services!  (Not a good idea as it turns out! )  The performance features are something I have at least a vague interest in (and I already have the heart rate strap and speed/cadence sensor anyway), though I suspect I won't be trying to cycle up alps at the maximum sustainable rate to the same degree this time around!

Also I rather had the idea that an iphone may be a tad delicate for such use whereas the Etrex is relatively cheap as GPSs go, has separate batteries and is tough.  Am also possibly a bit wary of things that "do everything" as you can then end up with a single unit doing a lot of nothing.

<nods>  I see where you're coming from, though in this case (and perhaps I didn't phrase my query all that well) all I'm really after is something for occasional sat-nav'ing.  I've remembered that I probably don't need a satnav for most of my Austrian holiday, just for certain specific elements of it[1] - so an Edge 810 would be overkill for most of the time.  And I don't have to spend ~£300, less whatever I could flog the 500 for, that's ~£300 I can spend on something else!

A bit of Google'ing has suggested that there is actually a cycling satnav app available which will vibrate and say "turn left" (or $WHATEVER) at junctions.  Alas it also seems to be UK only!   

all the best anyway - good luck with the trip.

Thanks!  Providing the weather doesn't turn out foul, then all I really need to worry about are the airport > railway station segments and whether the same chef is still working at the Hotel Dax in Lofer!  (When I was living in St Martin bei Lofer he was supposedly the best chef in the valley.  He probably was, and against some stiff competition too!  I can only hope that Pinzgauer Pfandl is still on the menü!)

[1] Austria is generally reasonably well sign-posted in my experience!

[Ningishzidda]

I may be mistaken here.

When you use a navigation app on an iPhone or Android, it downloads the maps on a ‘requirement’ basis rather than all the maps in one shot when you download the App.

When going out of the UK, make sure you have connectivity to the map source out of the UK.

[TimC]

I may be mistaken here.

You are. Well at least as far as Viewranger is concerned. It downloads your maps on purchase, and they are then available without the need for an Internet connection - subject to the phone having enough available storage. I'm sure there are other apps that work similarly.

[Ningishzidda]

One brave soul at the café had downloaded the TomTom App for Android.
Exactly the same functionality as my Rider Pro.

Trouble was, to go any more than a 100 km BP, a battery pack is needed, just like my Rider Pro.

Also required is a waterproof case mount, which then tips it over the weight of my Rider Pro with batt pack. With the waterproof case mount, the announcements couldn’t be heared. He hadn’t researched the possibility of a Bluetooth earpiece.

On his handlebars, it looked like an Android phone in a clear plastic case with a flylead off to a battery pack elastic banded to the underside of the handlebars.

On my handlebars, the Rider Pro looks like a motorbike Satnav just like what the Hairy Bikers have on their KTMs. The batt pack is on the toptube.

On a regular cyclist’s handlebars, the Garmin eTrex looks like a small GPS logging unit with ability to do some route guidance.

[citoyen]

The biggest drain on the battery is the screen, so an app that gives voice instructions (and so lets you keep your phone in your pocket with the screen off) is probably the best bet for what you want.

Google Maps does this, and I believe the TomTom app does as well.

You can also increase battery life by turning off other phone functions while you don't need them - push notifications, bluetooth etc.

It still won't last as long as an Edge per charge but it'll be a huge improvement on having the phone mounted on the bars and using the screen for navigation.

[Ningishzidda]

Been there, done it.

Using voice commands only is courting disaster.

[citoyen]

Using voice commands only is courting disaster.

I think it's a case of YMMV. Literally.

[markfh]

I have used MotionX-GPS app (http://gps.motionx.com/iphone/) for navigation on a 4th generation iPod Touch (with an external GPS receiver) for the last couple of years and found it reliable and effective.  It is a paid for app but reasonably priced (£1.49).

MotionX-GPS has the ability to download a set of map tiles ("Onboard Maps") whilst connected to the internet and then work "off-line" thereby removing the need for data access "on the go".  When you download the set of tiles you select the "area" (circle) or "route" (sausage) and the range of magnifications you want to use - the greater the magnification the more tiles and the longer the download.  Although you note it as not a requirement it can also record you track and data and does not seem to significantly add to the battery drain compared with having the display on.  Whilst the "onboard maps" don't necessarily show every footway and track in my local area (East Anglia) they do include the National Cycle Routes on the MotionX Terrain maps.  Also if you plan your own route (see below) you can follow paths that are not on the map.

Another function you might find useful is the ability to upload a route/track to the app - I plot routes on GoogleEarth, save then as .kml files, translate the .kml file to .gpx (using http://www.kml2gpx.com/) and then upload them to the MotionX-GPS app.  I find plotting the route on GoogleEarth to be very effective as I can select the route I want to follow rather than being dictated to by a routing algorithm and even look at particular roads using "streetview" when planning a route. The app can store multiple tracks (>100) and then you can select which track you want to follow with the route being displayed north up or track up (or if you have a device with a built-in compass direction up).

In order to overcome the limitations of battery life (and in my case provide power for the external gps receiver) I use an external battery pack.  I have a 5000 mAh battery pack that still gives over 4 1/2 hour life with the screen on full even after 2 years of use.  I don't know what the actual battery duration limit is as I have yet to flatten the battery completely but I expect it to be greater than 6 hours as after 3 hours I have just dropped from 3 bars to 2 bars on the battery's status indicator.  You can get even larger capacity batteries for around £20 via a number of internet suppliers.  You can use the external battery to recharge your iPhone or as a constant source of power as I do.

[BikinOn]

I was interested in this thread because my car GPSr seems on the blink and I've found my phone a good alternative before.

However, for bike routing, since you want cheap, I'd go with putting tracks on your 500 and just use the phone when you aren't sure. The 500 can display a line track without a map, which when zoomed in is easy enough to follow even in an urban area; I've done probably over a dozen double centuries with my old 305 using just tracks.

[JamesBradbury]

On Android OruxMaps is a good choice that I use as my Audax backup (after Edge 500 and route sheet). You can load in GPX files simply and see them on the map relative to where you are. Sometimes you need to zoom out a bit if you've gone WAAAY off route.    It will also navigate, although I've not tested that yet. I'm pretty sure you can download the maps in advance, too.

It looks like you can't get it for the iPhone, but this google search will show some alternatives.

[Ningishzidda]

Is the reason you've gone waaay off course, the fact you are using a Garmin Edge 500?

[Ningishzidda]

Many people scoffed at my choice of guidance system for Audax. They laughed at its size, weight and battery life.
The unit was designed to be mounted on a motorcycle handlebar in a breeze up to 80 mph in Scandinavian temperatures.
The primary customer target of the device were Motorcycle couriers, closely followed by motorcycle tourists who predominantly used proper roads with a wide width of tarmac.
It just so happened, those were the type of roads I prefer when riding my bicycle.

After 3 years of using the device, my personal opinions are that it beats any Garmin eTrex or Edge or Bicycle routing App hands down for bicycle navigating.
It has a versatile list of options for route specification.

Unfortunately, most ‘Routing Apps’ targeted at cyclists have this strange thinking that cyclists are scared of riding on major roads. It’s a ‘Health and Safety Issue’. If a bicycle routing App suggests a dual carriageway A road and the cyclist is killed, the App writer is destined for a law suit.

My advice is to use a routing app that is suitable for your style of riding and road preferences, not the vehicle you are using.
If you do download an App for a motorcyclist, make sure you can choose an ‘Avoid Motorways’ option.

[JamesBradbury]

Is the reason you've gone waaay off course, the fact you are using a Garmin Edge 500?

I think these are the main reasons for my "navos". I think most of them are not attributable to my ridiculed choice of GPS.

• Urban turn-density-induced confusion
• Badly-plotted DIY GPS track with minor off-shooting sidetracks
• Enjoying the view
• Chatting to another cyclist (audaxer or not)
• Going fast so didn't hear the beep
• Going fast so didn't dare to look down at the routesheet
• Daydreaming