[LEL17] LEL 2017

[Chuffy]

I understand your think, Chuffy, but instead of creating less work you are suggesting the team do MORE???

Um, not really. I'm suggesting that AUK look at having a small team of permanent, paid staff, rather than relying on unpaid volunteers. Obviously it wouldn't be viable to have them just work on LEL, hence my suggestion of a series of prestige events which would be the gold standard in terms of what was being offered (catering, sleeping arrangements etc). These would complement LEL and could share many resources, such as bed stock, electronic brevet systems etc.

Looking at other posts on here, we're basically sticking to the old model of relying on goodwill and volunteers. That, I feel, is the point that Danial and Fidgetbuzz are trying to make - it's not sustainable and we need something more permanent.

[marcusjb]

Looking at other posts on here, we're basically sticking to the old model of relying on goodwill and volunteers. That, I feel, is the point that Danial and Fidgetbuzz are trying to make - it's not sustainable and we need something more permanent.

I am not sure that is their point, I may be wrong though (it happened once before; 1997 from memory).  I think the suggestion is that it is not sustainable with a very small team (really just Sue, Keith, Danial, Roger and John dealing with the route). 

The look to have created a good framework to now expand the teams and parcel up tasks for others to take on (either as third party sub-contractors or a volunteer role). 

[tiermat]

Fair point, understood.

Maybe mis-reading on my part of your original post, I thought you were suggesting the same should be used to organise these events, hence the "not less work, but more"

[Morrisette]

I think someone from 'outside' of audax/YACF would be astonished that there are no paid staff involved in putting on an event the size of LEL. I don't mean paying volunteers, but the project management aspects of it are, as had been said, a full-time job. I think a paid PM or team who then delegated to people who volunteered would prevent the original organisers ending up with 2 jobs' worth of work. Ideally they would have taken part in LEL or volunteered this year so the knowledge acquired this year is not lost. As someone following this purely online and having no involvement otherwise I am amazed that there is no paid PM team!

The other thing is advertising for volunteers in the cycling press. I read various cycling magazines, but didn't see anything about LEL in any of them aside from Arrive (obviously) and an article in the CTC mag which didn't mention volunteering AFAIK. Maybe look at how the Olympic 'game makers' were recruited? - this type of thing is something a paid team would have time/resources to do.

As I say I had no involvement this year, but maybe an outsiders perspective could be helpful?

[Chuffy]

Looking at other posts on here, we're basically sticking to the old model of relying on goodwill and volunteers. That, I feel, is the point that Danial and Fidgetbuzz are trying to make - it's not sustainable and we need something more permanent.

I am not sure that is their point, I may be wrong though (it happened once before; 1997 from memory).  I think the suggestion is that it is not sustainable with a very small team (really just Sue, Keith, Danial, Roger and John dealing with the route). 

The look to have created a good framework to now expand the teams and parcel up tasks for others to take on (either as third party sub-contractors or a volunteer role).

Maybe I've got it wrong but a small(ish) team of people who are in charge and can co-ordinate things seems to be the most logical way of running the event. Somebody has to be in charge, even if other bits of the operation can be diverted to sub-teams of volunteers. What isn't sustainable is relying on volunteers for the core team, it's simply too much to ask.

[Pippa]

A couple of posts have mentioned a paid for full-time team/PM - is there any sort of budget for this anywhere?

[mattc]

[Purely FYI:]
We had a couple of ex-Olympics staff at Pock. They had no previous experience of bike events. Plus one lady who'd worked on Pro Races who had never heard of Audax.

An unpaid management team is not unique to Audax - I think many 'medium' sized running events (including the 100km+ stuff) do the same (local marathon to me does - I've met the Race Director).

There must be a 'critical mass' at which it becomes too big. If Danial says it was like a 2nd full-time job then clearly we have nearly reached that limit, unless we can reduce the workload for the core team. Personally I think we would lose a little part of LEL's soul if it was run by professionals. For me this is another reason not to grow things, at least not yet.

[marcusjb]

One thing that does need separating out is publicity/press liaison - not having a go at Danial in anyway, but that is in itself a big task and it would be great to engage the local communities better next time.  People were genuinely interested when you explained it to them - and many were happy to sit out front of their house and cheer people on.   People just didn't know it was coming through, even in control towns.  Every pub/cafe on the route could be informed somehow - it was nice to see a board out front a couple of them and some of them must have done some good trade (taking a little pressure off controls as well). 

It made a massive difference to riders to get a bit of encouragement, and more of that sort of thing would be brilliant.

[Greenbank]

A couple of posts have mentioned a paid for full-time team/PM - is there any sort of budget for this anywhere?

Even one person paid for 2.5 years at £20k p.a. = £50k

That's £50+ on the entry fee for 1000 riders.

Or £2.50 on the annual AUK subs for 4 years for 5000 members.

I just don't think paying for a full time role is workable at all.

[mattc]

It made a massive difference to riders to get a bit of encouragement, and more of that sort of thing would be brilliant.

There's no doubt this is a key part of PBP's appeal (unless you are riding 2 hours out of time and then everyone f**ks off to bed at 1am on a lonely final night ... /whinge)

I just wonder if we had the rider flow for this to gain any momentum. Folks could be standing in the rain for hours only to see 3-4 riders. I really don't know. 

[mcshroom]

A couple of posts have mentioned a paid for full-time team/PM - is there any sort of budget for this anywhere?

Even one person paid for 2.5 years at £20k p.a. = £50k

That's £50+ on the entry fee for 1000 riders.

Or £2.50 on the annual AUK subs for 4 years for 5000 members.

I just don't think paying for a full time role is workable at all.

Don't forget that with the required employer contributions on top of the headline salary you could probably double that, so £100+ on the entry fee.

[marcusjb]

It made a massive difference to riders to get a bit of encouragement, and more of that sort of thing would be brilliant.

There's no doubt this is a key part of PBP's appeal (unless you are riding 2 hours out of time and then everyone f**ks off to bed at 1am on a lonely final night ... /whinge)

I just wonder if we had the rider flow for this to gain any momentum. Folks could be standing in the rain for hours only to see 3-4 riders. I really don't know. 

I agree - and it's going to be limited, but every little helps and having someone who is solely responsible for getting the message into the Pocklington Post would help with this.  It all adds to the rider experiences and the general awareness of long-distance cycling, along with potentially helping some local businesses increase their turnover for a couple of days.

It's especially relevant in control towns where the rider flow will be there.

Again - not having a go at Danial in any way at all - but having to handle the press etc. as well as everything else means that the task could certainly be given more attention if someone else looked after it.

[Chuffy]

A couple of posts have mentioned a paid for full-time team/PM - is there any sort of budget for this anywhere?

Even one person paid for 2.5 years at £20k p.a. = £50k

That's £50+ on the entry fee for 1000 riders.

Or £2.50 on the annual AUK subs for 4 years for 5000 members.

I just don't think paying for a full time role is workable at all.

Yes, the money has to come from somewhere and I don't expect AUK to have a magic pot of it. However, £50 on the entry fee (+ £2.50 on subs) seems a reasonable increase, for the potential benefit. Bear in mind that I'm not talking about hiring people for the sole purpose of running LEL - they'd be expected to organise a series of smaller events (National 200/400/600?) as complementary/fundraising events in non LEL years. I agree that this isn't just something that can be accomplished with an airy wave of the hand but it can be done (small charity/voluntary groups run like this all the time) and would get away from the goodwill/volunteer model.

[L CC]

A couple of posts have mentioned a paid for full-time team/PM - is there any sort of budget for this anywhere?

Even one person paid for 2.5 years at £20k p.a. = £50k

That's £50+ on the entry fee for 1000 riders.

Or £2.50 on the annual AUK subs for 4 years for 5000 members.

I just don't think paying for a full time role is workable at all.

AUK might be a volunteer run organisation but it's not poor, not by a long stretch. We have massive surpluses sitting in the bank doing, ISTM, fuck all.
This is EXACTLY the kind of thing that the surplus should be doing. Our subs already generate this level of excess.

[Euan Uzami]

Yes, the money has to come from somewhere and I don't expect AUK to have a magic pot of it.

It has, though...

[Greenbank]

AUK might be a volunteer run organisation but it's not poor, not by a long stretch. We have massive surpluses sitting in the bank doing, ISTM, fuck all.
This is EXACTLY the kind of thing that the surplus should be doing. Our subs already generate this level of excess.

The existing surplus is mostly earmarked for the Strategic Plan (i.e. promoting long distance cycling) for all Audax UK members, and promoting it to target new members.

I think that's a better thing to use it for than to help subsidise an event that is only once every 4 years and gets only a small percentage (under 10%) of current Audax UK members riding it.

[Chuffy]

Yes, the money has to come from somewhere and I don't expect AUK to have a magic pot of it.

It has, though...

Well, in that case...

[Veloman]

Firstly, brilliant job done by the organising team and volunteers as positive comments are overwhelming.

Much comment on PR/media involvement.  Am I correct in thinking this remains a vacancy within the AUK organisation?  Perhaps if that role had been filled the incumbent could have taken the workload on.

BC and CTC employ staff for specific roles and it works well.  Much of the other work is done by volunteers within these organisations.  For AUK, with a very small membership in relative terms, the use of paid staff is more challenging when so many offer their time for free.  Perhaps using some of the funds that AUK have at their disposal is worth investigating further to help the organising folk.  No doubt there will be calls to protect the reserves.

I believe that LEL was validated by AUK but was not an AUK event as such.  Is any event an AUK event, or are they a validating and regulatory organisation?  Perhaps this relationship and extent of help available requires exploring further.

While great praise should be directed to the organisers and volunteers, should the same be directed toward AUK?  I'm sure overseas riders are singing the praises of AUK after a highly successful LEL.

[mattc]

There was a lot of debate 2010-ish about whether AUK should contribute. You can see the argument - what simpler way to promote long-distance cycling than to fund our longest event!

But in the end we have run a succesful event without subsidy. So I can't see a strong argument to take money from AUK in 2013. There is a stronger argument for spending money on other UK events, and the promotion thereof.

[bogomips]

[Purely FYI:]
We had a couple of ex-Olympics staff at Pock. They had no previous experience of bike events. Plus one lady who'd worked on Pro Races who had never heard of Audax.

An unpaid management team is not unique to Audax - I think many 'medium' sized running events (including the 100km+ stuff) do the same (local marathon to me does - I've met the Race Director).

There must be a 'critical mass' at which it becomes too big. If Danial says it was like a 2nd full-time job then clearly we have nearly reached that limit, unless we can reduce the workload for the core team. Personally I think we would lose a little part of LEL's soul if it was run by professionals. For me this is another reason not to grow things, at least not yet.

Are you implying that only a volunteer with experience of cycling and cycling events can be productive as a volunteer on LEL?

I was at Pocklington (with this volunteer) and their work ethic and overall effort could not be faltered.

From my project management experience you don’t need more work to bring LEL 2017 together you need better ways of working.

For example:

1. Barring for location each control is basically identical, list what works, how and why and replicate that to all controls with a central volunteer being responsible.

2. All rider information to be centralised and a regular email newsletter to be sent to everyone involved informing them of new and updated information.

3. Train all control volunteers on all tasks and rotate them according to rider throughput.


Etc etc…


Basically you need to identify the processes involved, the resources available and then find the most efficient way of planning and preparing the event. There is a wealth of knowledge available from previous editions and this will form the basis for delivering LEL 2017.

[London Edinburgh London]

It seems (to me) that a lot of workload for Danial, Sue, Keith was just dealing with the riders - I would like to see that off-loaded from those really running the show as I would guess that 95% of queries can be answered by someone with a reasonable understanding of the system (75% can be answered with 'read the website and/or riders email of XXth of July').

No, not at all. Here were the huge jobs:

- school visits - 8 hours travel to Edinburgh x 4 (for example, multiply by 13)
- route checking. I did several days worth of route checking
- website. A monster of a job. I wrote the words, collated the images, briefed and worked with the designer for the design elements, placed all the words into the frames, organised the translations, the checking of the translations, managed the entry system and rider tracking, and the post-entry site refresh (plus translations)
- social media
- rider mailings, 2 hours a week, plus an hour to send them out.
- procurement - hours of trawling around looking for beds, blankets etc, plus three full days for food for two controls
- controls - I ended up organising the food and catering for two controls
- logistics - this took about 35 hours to work out
- entry management - 17 hour-days for two weeks in January
- controller meetings - four of these, all day Saturday and two days each to prepare
- PBP preparation
- volunteers - building the volunteer database

This is off the top of my head - there's much more.

[mattc]

Are you implying that only a volunteer with experience of cycling and cycling events can be productive as a volunteer on LEL?

I was at Pocklington (with this volunteer) and their work ethic and overall effort could not be faltered.

Certainly not! I was addressing the point about LEL's volunteer recruitment strategy - which clearly succeeded in getting people from outside Audax. The mixture of experience and skills was a big plus.

[matthew]

If AUK was to take on a paid organiser then it would have to be for more than LEL, but it would also have to be for flagship events.

Maybe the role could involve the National 400 each year, LEL one year in four and with suitable agreement from the people that developed the concepts the Milli Cumru and Milli Alba on the years that don't have PBP.

For the AUK role of promoting long distance cycling then havin a well publicised series of long multiday challenge rides as annual targets and promoting 200, 300, 400 and potentially 600km events as good preparation for undertaking these rides may be a sucessful technique.

From my project management experience you don’t need more work to bring LEL 2017 together you need better ways of working.

For example:

1. Barring for location each control is basically identical, list what works, how and why and replicate that to all controls with a central volunteer being responsible.

not entirely true, yes catering, cleaning, regestration will be simmilar but each control will experience a very different pattern of work load. e.g
Loughton Busy Friday, Saturday and Sunday Morning - relax on Monday and prepare for returning riders, Tuesday first few finish, Wednesday the quicker riders arrive and then Thursday and overnight to Friday the bulk of teh rider come in, some in need of lots of TLC.
MR get ready Saturday, Sunday see all riders and some later riders stop to sleep, Monday clear the decks and then Tuesday start to see returning riders all the way through to some who sleep there Wednesday Night.
Brampton Get ready Sunday and see some riders north bound in the small hours of Monday, Most riders seen during Monday north bound with the first south bound riders Monday afternoon, see most of the 100 riders southbound during Tuesday with the tail of the riders sleeping at Brampton through to Wednesday Morning.

At Loughton we barely had any shift / rota system for the registration / start it was all hands on deck for the day followed by the same the next day.
At other controls the volunteers needed shifts to cover riders arriving for 36+ hours. Anywhere north of Thirsk was open for south bound riders before it closed for north bound and the controllers don't get chance to catch their breath, clear up and recuperate.

[Keeff]

One thing our experience tells us is that 90+% of the offers of help never materialise as anything helpful.

If you do offer help to the 2017 team, please make sure that it amounts to more than empty promises. 
 
Though we have now left the LEL room, and are patiently waiting by the AUK exit door for the end of the season to arrive, we will be very interested to see how plans for the 2017 event pan out.

Keith and Sue

[Chuffy]

No, not at all. Here were the huge jobs:
<snip>

I think that what people often don't realise is that, yes, you can devolve tasks to sub-groups but there still has to be a core group who direct things and sign things off. The website is a classic example. Even with a contractor to build it, the design has to be agreed, copy provided, draft versions proofed and idiot tested etc etc. That all takes time and has to be done by someone with authority to give the green light or demand changes.