BR vs BRM

[citoyen]

Just wondering whether to upgrade my ride from BR to BRM for next year. It was BR by default this year because I registered it too late for ACP, and I'll need to decide before the end of September if I want it to be BRM next year...

It won't make any difference from a PBP qualifying point of view (not next year, obviously, but nor in 2019 either since the ride will be in September). It's not something that I really give much thought to when entering a ride but it mentions in the organisers handbook that some people seek out BRM rides, which intrigues me.

[Wycombewheeler]

No option for sometimes.
By and large I am not that worried but the acp shiny medals are appealing so I have been looking for some to complete the set.
Next year is not a PBP year but to allow early registration I would be looking for a 400 or 600 to be BRM. I am in the position now of seriously considering a 200km ride at the other end of the country to get my ACP SR.

[citoyen]

I am in the position now of seriously considering a 200km ride at the other end of the country to get my ACP SR.

You know, I didn't even realise there was a separate award for ACP SRs.

[Ian H]

I think there should always be the opportunity to ride a BRM SR in the UK.  All mine are BRM.

[psyclist]

No option for sometimes.

'Sometimes' would be my response too. Usually it makes absolutely no difference, but I would seek out BRM events if completing an ACP SR (now that I know it exists!), or considering PBP.

Given that I'm on the RRtY x2 treadmill, for the vast majority of rides that I do other considerations take precedence ... like finishing at a microbrewery 

[jiberjaber]

Sometimes for me also, plus a BRM is time limited for the actual distance rather than the BR approach of the max time allowed is based on the actual distance of the event, so if its over distance by a fair bit and a BRM, then that might effect some entrants perhaps?

[whosatthewheel]

ACP sticker on a Brevet card elevates it to a "collectable" status, rather recycling bin status... so it's a BRM for me... but then again, it needs to be at least a 300 or some kind of monster epic 200. For a run of the mill sub 9 hour 200 km it seems a bit OTT in a non PBP year

[Smeth]

Long rides yes, as I'm thinking about the Brevet 10k. Get enough 200 BRMs just in the general run of things.

[Veloman]

I think there should always be the opportunity to ride a BRM SR in the UK.  All mine are BRM.

+1

I think it is good to be part of the broader audax family in terms of having BRM events and under ACP regulations.  While it is nice to be quaint and jolly UK, audax is a worldwide pastime and BRM reflects that.

[Banjo]

If a Randonee is considerably over distance it can have slower riders struggling for time under BRM rules.

[whosatthewheel]

If a Randonee is considerably over distance it can have slower riders struggling for time under BRM rules.

I've never met anybody who did not make the time in any Audax up to 400 km. For longer ones things can get messy, of course.
I think at the national in June 142 finished in time out of 147, but those 5 had mechanicals beyond repair and had to retire.

[Greenbank]

A ride can't be more than 5% over distance (so limit of 210km for a 200) if it is BRM.

Didn't stop there being a BRM 200 that was 220km in the calendar for many years (something Fish Foray from memory).

I would have been out of time on a few rides if they had been BRM instead of BR but then I may not have dawdled so much on those rides.

(Given that some organisers choose the 15kph min average speed for their BR rides then if they're not much over distance then BRM gives you MORE time not less.)

[citoyen]

plus a BRM is time limited for the actual distance

This and the increased validation fees (therefore increased entry fees) are the main reasons against making the ride a BRM.

Although, funnily enough, a BR ride of exactly 200km with a 15kmh minimum speed will have a time limit of 13h20, so there is a small allowance for over-distance built into the set BRM time.

And BRM rides aren't allowed to be more than 5% over anyway, iirc. (ETA: crossposted with Greenbank)

[whosatthewheel]

This and the increased validation fees (therefore increased entry fees) are the main reasons against making the ride a BRM.

Indeed.
I do like brevet cards, but I like them when they are full of stamps... if they are empty (info controls + commercial) I typically bin them. For a card full of stamps, you need people at controls, which typically means you charge more, maybe offer food, given you have people there... it becomes a TLC event, which in turn becomes very popular... hence pound more pound less, making it into a BRM is totally worth it.

So it really is down to what type of event you are running.

I think the minute more or minute less speculation on average speed makes zero difference. Folks who finish 5 minutes before the time limit do it on purpose. I can't think of anyone who can cycle 400 km but struggles to keep a 15 kph average...

[mattc]

You can have pretty stamps put in the boxes after the event - cafe controls don't have to mean a dull validated brevet card (although I admit it is the norm).

[simonp]

A ride can't be more than 5% over distance (so limit of 210km for a 200) if it is BRM.

Didn't stop there being a BRM 200 that was 220km in the calendar for many years (something Fish Foray from memory).

I would have been out of time on a few rides if they had been BRM instead of BR but then I may not have dawdled so much on those rides.

(Given that some organisers choose the 15kph min average speed for their BR rides then if they're not much over distance then BRM gives you MORE time not less.)

Ferryside Fish Foray. In the calendar this year as a 225km BR.

[T42]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a BR?  I've only ever done BRMs.

[telstarbox]

The FAQs sum it up quite nicely:

http://www.aukweb.net/aboutauk/faq/#055

[Ian H]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a BR?  I've only ever done BRMs.

That's cos you're the wrong side of the Channel.

[frankly frankie]

This and the increased validation fees (therefore increased entry fees) are the main reasons against making the ride a BRM.

You don't have to worry about that - there used to be a big differential, but for some years now and currently, there is NO difference in the fee the organiser pays, between BR and BRM

[citoyen]

This and the increased validation fees (therefore increased entry fees) are the main reasons against making the ride a BRM.

You don't have to worry about that - there used to be a big differential, but for some years now and currently, there is NO difference in the fee the organiser pays, between BR and BRM

That's good to know. I can't remember where I read that - thought it was in the organiser's handbook, but I can't find it in there now, so it must have been some other non-canonical source.

[Wycombewheeler]

You can have pretty stamps put in the boxes after the event - cafe controls don't have to mean a dull validated brevet card (although I admit it is the norm).

Just got me hereward the wake card back. And it has been stamped after the event like this, but all the stamps are the same so it doesn't have quite the same effect as a controller stamped card where each controller uses a different stamp.

[mattc]

You can have pretty stamps put in the boxes after the event - cafe controls don't have to mean a dull validated brevet card (although I admit it is the norm).

Just got me hereward the wake card back. And it has been stamped after the event like this, but all the stamps are the same so it doesn't have quite the same effect as a controller stamped card where each controller uses a different stamp.

Well I'm sorry to hear that, but some organisers do use different stamps on each control.

Maybe point this out to the Hereward organiser? 

[I have a validated 1500km perm card here - I got a different stamp from every control-town en route. The Decathlon/supermarket ones aren't very exciting, but it's still a nice thing     This was a bit of a special case - the org requires stamps, no receipts! ]

[Wycombewheeler]

You can have pretty stamps put in the boxes after the event - cafe controls don't have to mean a dull validated brevet card (although I admit it is the norm).

Just got me hereward the wake card back. And it has been stamped after the event like this, but all the stamps are the same so it doesn't have quite the same effect as a controller stamped card where each controller uses a different stamp.

Well I'm sorry to hear that, but some organisers do use different stamps on each control.

Maybe point this out to the Hereward organiser? 

[I have a validated 1500km perm card here - I got a different stamp from every control-town en route. The Decathlon/supermarket ones aren't very exciting, but it's still a nice thing     This was a bit of a special case - the org requires stamps, no receipts! ]

In the UK? I thought the stamps from shops and cafes was a European thing. Didn't think you could get it here hence using receipts.
I am awaiting my random Luxemburg 1000km brevet back with all the stamps.
To be clear I am not complaining about hereward, it's still much better than other coveted brevets which just used receipts.

[whosatthewheel]

my best brevet card is the Raid Pyrenean... I've got the stamp of David Moncassin's cycle shop...