Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => The Knowledge => OT Knowledge => Topic started by: andrewc on 10 March, 2019, 09:10:48 am

Title: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: andrewc on 10 March, 2019, 09:10:48 am
The parents kitchen, not mine.  This has been ongoing for a couple of weeks.   They first found something had gotten into a kitchen unit & had a good nibble.   Then something chewed through an air brick & got into the built in cupboard.    Yesterday I went around the kitchen looking for possible entry points.  The waste pipe for the washing machine goes through an external wall & the pipe had a good gap around it.  I stuffed it up with wire wool as a temporary patch.  This morning they've found the wool chewed / pushed out of the way, masonry rubble on the floor . 


There are lots of droppings & a definite smell in the loft, so I think they are getting in via the roof & then going down though the cavity walls.  The loft is a nightmare.  2 layers of insulation, with sheets of chipboard (old wardrobe panels) across the joists & carpet on top of that.  Parents report skittering noises above their bedroom at night, so suspect they are under the floor panels.    It's full of 50 years worth of crap, which I'm slowly trying to sort out & junk for them. 


The traps we've put down (baited with peanut butter & other stuff) have been untouched. 


I'll be getting some stuff to seal the gap later today https://www.homebase.co.uk/rentokil-mouse-rat-gap-sealant_p352964  and the air bricks are going to be replaced / reinforced with steel grills.  They are going to ask a neighbour who's a roofer the check the roof where the pitched tiles meet a flat extension & see if there are any gaps there.


They are paranoid about having strangers in the house, so persuading them to get professional help is difficult,  they are reluctant to put poison down in case the damn things eat it & then die in the walls  :sick:



What else can I do ?   Other people on the estate have also reported problems.

Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Wowbagger on 10 March, 2019, 10:07:06 am
Has anyone contacted Environmental Health? I would imagine it's the sort of organisation that is ripe for government cuts but surely the local authority is still able to Send a Man Round.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: T42 on 10 March, 2019, 10:21:42 am
We had a mouse invasion about 20 years ago and found that the only thing that worked was poison blocks. When a mouse dies somewhere inaccessible, though, it doesn't stink for long.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: tiermat on 10 March, 2019, 10:31:24 am
We had a mouse invasion about 20 years ago and found that the only thing that worked was poison blocks. When a mouse dies somewhere inaccessible, though, it doesn't stink for long.

As I discovered, when working at Oldham Council, rats stink more and for longer (to be precise the problem there was a half rat one, caused by foxes).

Good luck with eradication, Andrew.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Canardly on 10 March, 2019, 11:18:42 am
Much to my surprise Liverpool (if that is the LA)  provides a free service to householders. I would get them in Andrew, if you can persuade your parents and they seem to offer a quick service.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Aunt Maud on 10 March, 2019, 11:24:42 am
Get a couple of BFO metal rattraps with serrated edges and bait them with grapes or banana laid in their run.

I killed 10 in a day at our place in Somerset that way and poncing about with catch and release is not the way to deal with them. They do a lot of damage, so in my book it's all out warfare when they visit.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: tiermat on 10 March, 2019, 11:46:59 am
As they are, quite literally, vermin then you are not allowed to release if you catch. At least that is my understanding.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Brucey on 10 March, 2019, 01:05:23 pm
almost any kind of sheet metal will stop them.  They do indeed stink to high heaven if they die in an inaccessible spot.

You could have brown rats or black rats; it  might be useful to know which. Lots of useful information here;

https://www.pest-control-products.net/769/rats/what-is-the-best-rat-bait/ (https://www.pest-control-products.net/769/rats/what-is-the-best-rat-bait/)

Rats can smell where they have been before and will therefore try and chew through new barriers. They can also smell where there is food.  I think it is potentially important to understand how air circulates in a house; if air exits (carrying food smells with it) anywhere there are rats, they will try and chew their way in.  Thus in well heated rooms, air is drawn in though airbricks that are set low and carries smells upwards in the house. However in unheated rooms cold (smelly) air can exit via airbricks low down.    Warm (smelly) air tends to exist via the wall cavity and the airbricks higher up.    If you can address these issues you may help prevent a recurrence.

Any climbing plants on the outside of a building are like a staircase for vermin.  Any traces of food outdoors will also attract them, so things like dog food, cat food, bird food, even crumbs spilt from carrying rubbish to the bins will attract vermin. 

In the short run keeping any foodstuffs in metal containers will at least keep them from getting fed (and will increase the chances that they will take bait from traps). They can chew their way through any plastic kitchen container.

Maybe you can borrow a cat?

cheers
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: andrewc on 10 March, 2019, 01:29:39 pm
They have a cat, she’s over 20 years old & just sleeps all the time.
Mum is already under orders to stop feeding the birds. There is some type of climbing plant on one of the rear walls so that will have to go.


Knowsley council will come out for £24. I’m not sure if that’s just to give them a leaflet & the address of a local firm, I’ll have to find out.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Wowbagger on 10 March, 2019, 01:55:33 pm
Black rats are very rare in teh UK. Will certainly be brown rats (rattus norvegicus) - the Norwegian Rat.

[confused daily mail reader]
Comin' over 'ere, displacin' our indigenous black rats... hang on a tick. Black, did you say?
[/confused daily mail reader]

Aggressive rats are quite a challenge for most cats, I would say. I'm sure I have related elsewhere on these hallowed pages the sad experience of our dog, who had his nose bisected by a rat one day.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Jurek on 10 March, 2019, 02:06:39 pm
Black rats are very rare in teh UK. Will certainly be brown rats (rattus norvegicus) - the Norwegian Rat.

[confused daily mail reader]
Comin' over 'ere, displacin' our indigenous black rats... hang on a tick. Black, did you say?
[/confused daily mail reader]

Aggressive rats are quite a challenge for most cats, I would say. I'm sure I have related elsewhere on these hallowed pages the sad experience of our dog, who had his nose bisected by a rat one day.
I'm a bit surprised to read that.
When the Pied Piper of Lewisham Council called, I remarked on his bravery at putting his hand down a drain to leave poison there.
He replied to say that with rats, it isn't an issue - if it was squirrels, that would be wholly different as the risk of being attacked is much higher.
My own experience of squirrels confirms this.
Maybe one has to be human-sized before a rat is fazed.

G'luck Andrew.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Kim on 10 March, 2019, 02:08:34 pm
My own experience of squirrels confirms this.

 :D


Quote
Maybe one has to be human-sized before a rat is fazed.

Maybe they're as crap at risk-assessment as sheep are?
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Jurek on 10 March, 2019, 02:13:30 pm



Quote
Maybe one has to be human-sized before a rat is fazed.

Maybe they're as crap at risk-assessment as sheep are?
I thought that rats were supposed to be intelligent - Albeit maybe not in a Likelihood / Severity kind of way.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Gattopardo on 10 March, 2019, 02:21:04 pm
Cats need to be a bit wild to learn how to kill rats.  That BBC program showed that.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Jurek on 10 March, 2019, 02:38:00 pm
Cats need to be a bit wild to learn how to kill rats.  That BBC program showed that.
That makes complete sense.
Part-Time's world is one of heated linoleum where the CH pipes pass under the kitchen floor, interspersed with frolics thanks to my laser pointer.
Fun for all.
I don't think she'd know what to do if confronted by Rattus Norvegicus.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: hellymedic on 10 March, 2019, 03:24:21 pm
Rats are known to be good at assessing risks; it's part of their survival strategy. They sample new foods and wait a day observing for ill-effects before tucking in.

Our semi-feral cats have proven their skillz with pigeons mice and rats.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 10 March, 2019, 03:32:58 pm
AIUI one of the reasons rats are a problem to us is that they share some of our habits, in food and breeding for instance.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Brucey on 10 March, 2019, 04:29:41 pm
rats are sufficiently devious that they will let/encourage a weaker rat to take a new foodstuff and only when that rat doesn't die will they tuck in themselves. 

I should have said 'maybe you can borrow a proper cat?'

cheers
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: andrewc on 10 March, 2019, 04:46:28 pm
https://twitter.com/parveenkaswan/status/1104263284864122885?s=21 (https://twitter.com/parveenkaswan/status/1104263284864122885?s=21)


Like this?
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Brucey on 10 March, 2019, 05:32:03 pm
yeah that'll do.

I am reminded of the Hüsker Dü song 'how to skin a cat'.  John Peel occasionally used to play it...

cheers
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: redshift on 10 March, 2019, 06:54:57 pm
rats are sufficiently devious that they will let/encourage a weaker rat to take a new foodstuff and only when that rat doesn't die will they tuck in themselves. 

I should have said 'maybe you can borrow a proper cat?'

cheers

Charlie, despite being the softest cat I've ever known when it came to humans, was also the best ratter.  I only know this because he didn't eat them, just parked them near the back door ready for disposal.  I would definitely say it depends on the cat!
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: SteveC on 10 March, 2019, 07:35:30 pm
Maine coons, of which we used to have two, were (apparently) specifically bred as ratters. One reason they are so large.
As far as we know, they only ever managed to catch one between them. They tended not to eat their prey (again, as far as we know) unlike their ex-feral brother who was quite happy going out for a take-away if he didn't like what was on offer in the house.
Mind you, we may not have many rats round here. I've never seen one on our wildlife cam for instance.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Kim on 10 March, 2019, 07:44:39 pm
Even a rubbish[1] cat seems to work as a meece deterrent, as presumably they avoid places that smell of cat.  Rats don't seem to care.

Mysterious lack of either around here, especially given the council's attitude to refuse workers and the BloodyStudents' attitude to tidying up.


[1] Semi-competent cats are the worst, as they'll bring home live meece and lose them.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Canardly on 10 March, 2019, 08:33:29 pm
Rats are becoming a serious problem in major cities.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: hellymedic on 10 March, 2019, 08:48:35 pm
Certainly are in that London!
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Canardly on 10 March, 2019, 08:51:54 pm
Except in Ascot where rats are something you have to pay to the local authority.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: vorsprung on 10 March, 2019, 09:03:09 pm
Poison is a bit variable, the trouble is that rats are immune sometimes

Agree about traps but getting the buggers to trigger it is difficult

If you see the rat and want it caught on the spot, forget the cat.  You need a terrier
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: andrewc on 10 March, 2019, 09:58:07 pm
So I rammed a lot more coarse steel wool into that hole then put a whole tube of that sealant into it.   I didn't notice that there was a protective cap on the bottom of the tube & squeezed the caulking gun so hard I bent the handle, making it useless.  I ended up cutting the top off the tube, pushing the gunge out & pushing it into place with a spatula. 


There's a 2nd large hole where the kitchen sink waste goes through the wall.  I've put more steel wool into there but would need to take the back of the unit off for access to do anything else. 


I'll be a lot happier if I can keep them out of the kitchen.  It's the only room we know they've been in, and the health implications for 2 elderly people, one with a compromised immune system are not pleasing. 


Guess I'll have to check the bathroom pipes as well.  My sister who lives with them has read that they can swim out of a toilet & is now insisting that lids be left down at all times !
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Ham on 10 March, 2019, 09:59:44 pm
https://twitter.com/parveenkaswan/status/1104263284864122885?s=21 (https://twitter.com/parveenkaswan/status/1104263284864122885?s=21)


Like this?

One of these will do

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Canardly on 10 March, 2019, 10:14:16 pm
Don't see why you cant seal pipe surrounds with this.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/no-nonsense-builders-silicone-clear-310ml/83710 (https://www.screwfix.com/p/no-nonsense-builders-silicone-clear-310ml/83710)
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Mrs Pingu on 10 March, 2019, 10:21:30 pm
I thought that rats had form for chewing through all this non metal stuff like expanding foam, electrical insulation etc?

Rentokil agrees with your sister and would agree with your decluttering
https://www.rentokil.co.uk/rats/prevention/
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: andrewc on 10 March, 2019, 10:26:28 pm
The Rentokil stuff was extremely gloopy & appeared to have something fibrous mixed in with it.   They certainly seem to like chewing cables,  I found 2 different ones that had been nibbled down to bare copper.  Another thing to fix.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 10 March, 2019, 10:39:50 pm
Worth asking why they have suddenly arrived. We had some in the garden who came because of building work further up the road.

Council man came round and was excellent.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 11 March, 2019, 08:16:18 am
Cats are variable; when we lived on a boat (moored on a farm), the farm cats caught few rats. Our 'ships cat' caught 1-2 a day during summer (horse feed and manure provides perfect conditions for rats). The landlords lamented us moving away and taking our cat with us.

Rat poison has something in it that 'burns up' the corpse. The stink doesn't last long.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: ian on 11 March, 2019, 09:33:20 am
Someone did a study recently (http://dx.doi.org/10.3389/fevo.2018.00146) – cats generally don't catch rats, they view the risk as too high, especially when there's smaller less bitey prey around, or stuff that comes in pounches and is served up by humans twice-a-day. Rats however, will avoid places where cats roam, on the basis they're risk-averse. So where people think cats are catching rats, the rats are just moving away or keeping a lower profile. Cats are inadvertently effective.

Rats won't attack humans unless they're cornered or threatened. Apparently, a big source of them in urban areas are those stupid areas of garden decking people seemed enamoured with. They love making nests under that stuff.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Mr Larrington on 11 March, 2019, 01:48:21 pm
Don't use poison.  Post-Brexit, rats will be a valuable protein source, and you may need to keep some aside for bartering with an allotment-owning neighbour or a FOAF who keeps chickens.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Peter on 11 March, 2019, 01:59:10 pm
From the post title it sounds like you've written most of a Half Man Half Biscuit single.  So what you should do is finish it and send it to them.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 11 March, 2019, 02:16:38 pm
I thought it was UB40!
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Peter on 11 March, 2019, 02:17:53 pm

Oh dear, is it actually already a song!
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: spesh on 11 March, 2019, 02:18:33 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_in_Mi_Kitchen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zSWqJGTa-I
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: andrewc on 11 March, 2019, 02:19:52 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHwPYze5M9s

I've already sent my sister some recipes  :demon:

The holes I plugged yesterday are untouched, but it looks like they came down the duct where the pipes from the central heating boiler go. I think that's going to be a tiling job.   

A trap I left outside had been sprung , but there was nothing in it.    More traps in the garden then.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: hellymedic on 11 March, 2019, 02:21:29 pm
Rats won't attack humans unless they're cornered or threatened. Apparently, a big source of them in urban areas are those stupid areas of garden decking people seemed enamoured with. They love making nests under that stuff.

If David's observatory is anything to go by, decking is adored by rats, mice and feral cats.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: spesh on 11 March, 2019, 02:22:10 pm
Don't use poison.  Post-Brexit, rats will be a valuable protein source, and you may need to keep some aside for bartering with an allotment-owning neighbour or a FOAF who keeps chickens.

<Discworld> Rat onna stick? </Discworld>
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: andrewc on 11 March, 2019, 02:30:07 pm
Rat au van...
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Peter on 11 March, 2019, 02:55:52 pm
Roll over rat au van.......
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Ham on 11 March, 2019, 03:35:23 pm
Karadzic ?
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: hellymedic on 11 March, 2019, 04:03:36 pm
Rat at tooey?
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Gattopardo on 11 March, 2019, 04:22:04 pm
Get your warfarin via your food.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Kim on 11 March, 2019, 06:27:01 pm
Don't use poison.  Post-Brexit, rats will be a valuable protein source, and you may need to keep some aside for bartering with an allotment-owning neighbour or a FOAF who keeps chickens.

<Discworld> Rat onna stick? </Discworld>

With ketchup.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Hot Flatus on 11 March, 2019, 07:52:45 pm
We've got an escapee hamster
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 12 March, 2019, 06:35:20 am
Some of this may be slightly out of date info but around 3 - 4 years ago there was a change in the law regarding what quantity and quality of rat poison could be purchased by the general public. In theory it was an attempt to reduce secondary poisoning up the food chain particularly with birds of prey.

With this in mind I don't have much confidence in the rat poison available to the general public. I would consider finding a local company to come and put some decent strength stuff in or look online.

Or if you have a way of dispatching the buggers such as an decent power air rifle I would recommend cage traps. If you are going down this route feel free to PM me as some traps on the internet are rubbish.

These can be set anywhere as have advantage that non target species can be released unharmed. You will need these checked regularly. Check the exact law on this but we don't want control of pests to lead to cruelty.

Lastly those ultrasonic things. I used to sell them in my work. Some people swore by them, some swore at them. Might be worth a try.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Gattopardo on 12 March, 2019, 09:46:04 am
Don't use poison.  Post-Brexit, rats will be a valuable protein source, and you may need to keep some aside for bartering with an allotment-owning neighbour or a FOAF who keeps chickens.

<Discworld> Rat onna stick? </Discworld>

With ketchup.

You disgust me, its english mustard.  What else?
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: andrewc on 15 March, 2019, 10:22:12 pm
One splatted rat , outside in the garden.  A trap in the loft was spring & the bait taken, but no kill.


I tiled the gap where the heating pipes come down.  Apparently earlier this evening there was a lot of scrabbling noises from that area.  I'm now thinking of undoing the tile work, popping a couple of traps in & doing a temporary cover with a piece of wood or something.


My sister was not pleased by me sending her a Youtube clip from "1984" of Winston in Room 101  :demon:
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Brucey on 16 March, 2019, 01:38:46 pm
if a trap is sprung with no victim and the bait taken, it can be clever rodents tugging the bait off sideways/upwards which mayn't spring the trap; it is advocated that you tie the bait onto the trap if you can, eg if you use bacon rind as bait. However it might just be mice; they can sit within the arc of a rat-sized trap and set it off without necessarily coming to harm.

cheers
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: spesh on 16 March, 2019, 01:50:13 pm
Don't use poison.  Post-Brexit, rats will be a valuable protein source, and you may need to keep some aside for bartering with an allotment-owning neighbour or a FOAF who keeps chickens.

<Discworld> Rat onna stick? </Discworld>

With ketchup.

You disgust me, its english mustard.  What else?

Yebbut only the supermarket own-brand - there's no way I'd waste Taylor's on a rodent kebab.  :demon:
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Mr Larrington on 18 March, 2019, 03:11:07 pm
Don't use poison.  Post-Brexit, rats will be a valuable protein source, and you may need to keep some aside for bartering with an allotment-owning neighbour or a FOAF who keeps chickens.

<Discworld> Rat onna stick? </Discworld>

With ketchup.

You disgust me, its english mustard.  What else?

Yebbut only the supermarket own-brand - there's no way I'd waste Taylor's on a rodent kebab.  :demon:

This Unit has had French's Spicy inna-squeezy-bottle recommended to it, as it disguises the taste of the rat.  It's also as pikey as Rogerzilla's old Beemer ;D
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Gattopardo on 18 March, 2019, 07:37:48 pm
Don't use poison.  Post-Brexit, rats will be a valuable protein source, and you may need to keep some aside for bartering with an allotment-owning neighbour or a FOAF who keeps chickens.

<Discworld> Rat onna stick? </Discworld>

With ketchup.

You disgust me, its english mustard.  What else?

Yebbut only the supermarket own-brand - there's no way I'd waste Taylor's on a rodent kebab.  :demon:

This Unit has had French's Spicy inna-squeezy-bottle recommended to it, as it disguises the taste of the rat.  It's also as pikey as Rogerzilla's old Beemer ;D

French on an English rat!!!!!
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Mr Larrington on 20 March, 2019, 11:10:43 am
Don't use poison.  Post-Brexit, rats will be a valuable protein source, and you may need to keep some aside for bartering with an allotment-owning neighbour or a FOAF who keeps chickens.

<Discworld> Rat onna stick? </Discworld>

With ketchup.

You disgust me, its english mustard.  What else?

Yebbut only the supermarket own-brand - there's no way I'd waste Taylor's on a rodent kebab.  :demon:

This Unit has had French's Spicy inna-squeezy-bottle recommended to it, as it disguises the taste of the rat.  It's also as pikey as Rogerzilla's old Beemer ;D

French on an English rat!!!!!

French's != French, as they were keen to point out when la Republique declined to partake of bush 2’s Land War In Asia.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: andrewc on 20 March, 2019, 09:46:34 pm
Well we appear to have made the kitchen rat proof.  The little fuckers are now trying to tunnel through the floor in the hall.  A hole in the laminate flooring for a radiator pipe has been considerably enlarged by something.  Now blocked with a plug of steel mesh & some traps put down in the one area we can get to in the underfloor void.   


Another kill in  the loft.  I've shifted a lot more cardboard boxes & found a lot more rat shit & evidence of them tunnelling into the insulation.  The thin chipboard in that part of the loft is breaking under my weight so I'm being very careful.


I left the dead rat for my father to dispose of.   He chucked it onto the roof of the adjacent electrical sub-station.  You stupid fucker, says I.  That's just going to attract more of the cannibalistic little bastards.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Wombat on 21 March, 2019, 10:01:39 am
Just in case you thought it might resist them, expanding foam insulation does absolutely nothing to slow them down, it just means they make even more noise chomping their way through it.

I resorted to that desperate measure professionally many years ago - won't make that mistake again!  We had rats making their way through the cavity walls of a terrace of houses, along about 5 houses, to terrorise one poor tenant of ours.  Why they didn't hassle the tenants of the one that was causing the issue by handling and badly storing Chinese food ingredients, I do not know.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: andrewc on 21 March, 2019, 09:22:53 pm
They have received a Letter From The Council , saying that The Council is aware of complaints of rats in gardens in their street & from a 1/4 mile around.   The Council do not propose to do anything about this unless they pay them Moar Money ......   so whats the £2.2K council tax for then ?  >:(


Traps in the garden have had the bait removed untouched.  Traps in the loft haven't been disturbed & they've heard no further scratching noises.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Wowbagger on 23 March, 2019, 07:38:36 am
I was about to say that if there are rats in your parents' place then there's probably a hell of a lot more. A quarter mile radius is an awful lot of rats.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Brucey on 23 March, 2019, 09:56:51 am
if there is a large population of rats locally, then there has to be a food source for the rats.  All it takes is one homeowner to have a food source available to the rats (pet food, bird food, bad bins, a non-rat-proof home, etc)  and it will be rat central. They are capable of breeding at an incredible rate; in theory a pair of rats can increase to a population of 15000 in a year.

Unless the food source is removed or is made so that it is no longer accessible to rats, you will likely always have a rat problem in the neighbourhood.

cheers
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Moleman76 on 27 March, 2019, 02:06:48 am
When we had a rodent invasion (mice, wood rats, squirrels, bat (Fledermaus)), we learned that:
   They like to raise families in fiberglass insulation in the attic or under floors
and
   Copper wool seems to work better than steel wool for packing openings
and
   Mice can enter through a space 1/4" high or wide; they deform their jaws so as to flatten out.
     
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Brucey on 27 March, 2019, 09:30:49 am
I used to keep bees; the recipe for keeping mice out of a hive over the winter (whilst allowing bees access as needed) is to ensure that the front opening of the hive was not larger than a 1/4"  slot, or a series of  5/16" round holes. Adult mice can't get through either.


cheers
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: andrewc on 27 March, 2019, 10:14:14 am
Little bastards got into the parental bathroom  :jurek:


Removing the panel from the corner bath and there are a couple of floorboards missing, right at the back.
Can’t get at those without removing the bath, and the incompetent idiot who installed it didn’t fit isolation valves.  :facepalm:


The idea of accidentally torching the place & claiming on the insurance is becoming more attractive every day.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Brucey on 27 March, 2019, 10:31:28 am
can you make up a sheet metal 'cover' for the hole, and screw/glue it to the wall/nail it to the floorboards?   If you make a piece of sheet metal that has edges that are folded up where they meet the wall, with holes where needed for screws/nails, this ought to stop the blighters.

cheers
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Mr Larrington on 27 March, 2019, 01:22:42 pm
There is occasional tree rat activity above the ceiling of my barrack room at Fort Larrington.  I suspect they're getting in through one of the myriad holes for Lt. Col. Larrington (retd.)'s solar installations.  Still, it's better than the wasps' nest he had up there a few years ago.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Wowbagger on 27 March, 2019, 01:42:34 pm
Frankly, I'd prefer the wasps. At least they die in the winter.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: andrewc on 27 March, 2019, 03:08:06 pm
When I was there the other night I noticed what looked like a hole at the edge of the roof, so will have to cut an inspection hatch in the correct part of the roofing felt to check.  What’s the best stuff for sealing the felt back up? Some flavour of duct tape ?

Edit: Evostik Flashband the right stuff ?   There are a couple of other splits in the loftspace that need to be fixed anyway.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Brucey on 27 March, 2019, 04:18:57 pm
do you mean felt as in flat roof, or felt as in what goes  under a tiled roof?

 If the former then you can get roofing felt adhesive (mastic based), and the usual method is to patch any damaged/cut area with more felt and lots of the adhesive.  Lap joints work well with roofing felt, butt joints don't.

cheers
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: andrewc on 27 March, 2019, 04:40:57 pm
The latter, it’s a tiled roof with felt underneath. Some stuff I’ve read suggests that the felt doesn’t actually have much purpose, but I’d rather not leave open holes in it.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Canardly on 27 March, 2019, 04:48:09 pm
Roofs did not have any sarking felt for hundreds of years, so don't get too hung up on patching it. The older stuff tends to degrade anyway, particularly along the eaves.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Mr Larrington on 28 March, 2019, 02:44:14 pm
Frankly, I'd prefer the wasps. At least they die in the winter.

Not when they start coming through a crack in the ceiling plasterwork, you wouldn't.  All the tree rats do is scamper around in the middle of the night.  Well, they're probably up to other squirly crimes as well but that's not my problem unless it was them that b0rked the magnetic filter on the heating system.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Kim on 28 March, 2019, 06:03:12 pm
Frankly, I'd prefer the wasps. At least they die in the winter.

Not when they start coming through a crack in the ceiling plasterwork, you wouldn't.  All the tree rats do is scamper around in the middle of the night.  Well, they're probably up to other squirly crimes as well but that's not my problem unless it was them that b0rked the magnetic filter on the heating system.

Never underestimate rats.  If they can wire plugs[1], they can do plumbing badly.


[1] O'Brien, R. and Bernstein, Z. (1999). Mrs. Frisby and the rats of Nimh. New York: Aladdin Books.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: nicknack on 28 March, 2019, 07:16:22 pm
Saw a strange sight today. As I was driving past a farm cold store I spied a commotion in the gutter. About a dozen rats stopped what they were doing in the gutter (dust bathing?) and disappeared into the long grass. I don't think I've ever seen so many rats in one place before.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Mrs Pingu on 28 March, 2019, 08:21:26 pm
[1] O'Brien, R. and Bernstein, Z. (1999). Mrs. Frisby and the rats of Nimh. New York: Aladdin Books.

Great book
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Wowbagger on 28 March, 2019, 11:25:27 pm
Saw a strange sight today. As I was driving past a farm cold store I spied a commotion in the gutter. About a dozen rats stopped what they were doing in the gutter (dust bathing?) and disappeared into the long grass. I don't think I've ever seen so many rats in one place before.

When I were a wee lad, we lived next door to a farm. Our house had been the farm house at some point in the past. On summers evenings, as the hens went to roost, we would go through the gate that connected our garden to the farmyard and watch the rats emerge and feast themselves in the hoppers of chicken food. There must have ben dozens of them.

I believe I have recounted somewhere on these pages the occasion that our dog and I killed 21 rats in my dad's heap of chicken shit & straw during a half-hour spree. The dog was armed to the teeth and I was wielding a cricket bat.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Kim on 28 March, 2019, 11:30:45 pm
I believe I have recounted somewhere on these pages the occasion that our dog and I killed 21 rats in my dad's heap of chicken shit & straw during a half-hour spree. The dog was armed to the teeth and I was wielding a cricket bat.

Did you then head to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint, and wait for it all to blow over?
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Wowbagger on 28 March, 2019, 11:33:35 pm
I believe I have recounted somewhere on these pages the occasion that our dog and I killed 21 rats in my dad's heap of chicken shit & straw during a half-hour spree. The dog was armed to the teeth and I was wielding a cricket bat.

Did you then head to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint, and wait for it all to blow over?

I had to google that and it worked.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Kim on 28 March, 2019, 11:38:37 pm
I believe I have recounted somewhere on these pages the occasion that our dog and I killed 21 rats in my dad's heap of chicken shit & straw during a half-hour spree. The dog was armed to the teeth and I was wielding a cricket bat.

Did you then head to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint, and wait for it all to blow over?

I had to google that and it worked.

How's that for a slice of fried gold?
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: andrewc on 29 March, 2019, 12:09:07 am
My schoolboy cricket bat is currently propped up in the parental hall  :D
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Mr Larrington on 29 March, 2019, 10:44:41 am
These are tree rats though, and their prowess with electricity and plumbing is an unknown quantity.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: andrewc on 29 March, 2019, 10:56:34 am
They are now getting water leaks in the kitchen under the bathroom. This started when my father started fiddling under the bath, so hopefully that’s the cause. Google tells me that rats & mice will chew through pipes to get to water.  :facepalm:


It also appears that many household insurance policies exclude damage caused by animals.  I’ll have to check theirs.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Kim on 29 March, 2019, 03:18:53 pm
They are now getting water leaks in the kitchen under the bathroom. This started when my father started fiddling under the bath, so hopefully that’s the cause. Google tells me that rats & mice will chew through pipes to get to water.  :facepalm:


It also appears that many household insurance policies exclude damage caused by animals.  I’ll have to check theirs.

Do humans count as animals for in-sewer-ants purposes?
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 29 March, 2019, 03:21:19 pm
Rats are just a more advanced species of human anyway.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Ginger Cat on 30 March, 2019, 06:29:13 pm
Mate of mine is a farmer's son, his dad keeps pigs (and grows veg).

Apparently rats develop immunity to rat poison, plus Vitamin C is the antidote to rat poison, so if rats get into the pig-pellets (which contain Vit C) poison will never kill them. He reckons the farm feral cat colony is the only answer, plus occasional visits by another mate with a ratting terrier.  Plus putting edible stuff in secure metal bins.

There's plenty of cats in our area, at at least 2 spray around the garden. We don't tend to see any rat signs- I think the scent of cat urine puts them off. 

Moral of that: be nice to cats (especially Ginger ones  ;D)

GC
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: andytheflyer on 30 March, 2019, 07:17:32 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7qAIwysavo
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: hellymedic on 30 March, 2019, 09:26:49 pm
I thought Vitamin K (not C) was the antidote to coumarin rat poisons like warfarin but I'm a rusty doctor.

Vitamin K is abundant in trendy 'superfoods' like kale and broccoli.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Ginger Cat on 31 March, 2019, 11:14:00 am
I thought Vitamin K (not C) was the antidote to coumarin rat poisons like warfarin but I'm a rusty doctor.

Vitamin K is abundant in trendy 'superfoods' like kale and broccoli.

Could be, in fact thinking about it as Vit K is involved in blood clotting, most likely. My mate probably got his "C" and "K" mixed up. 

A few years ago, a depot I was working with had a rodent issue in the mess-room, they were also skint so I pointed out to the Finance guy that getting some "working cats" from Cats Protection was much better value for money than a permanent contract with a pest-control company (which are expensive). 

So, we got a feral cat, the workshop chaps warmed to her very quickly when they saw her catching rodents. (She would line the dead ones up neatly out the back  :D) ). Soon the rodent evidence in the mess room went away and that cat was the best looked after cat ever- nice bed-box-den, tasty food and before long she wasn't very feral any more. She still caught loads of rodents, but liked sitting in the sun with the lads at their dinner. My team ensured there was always a supply of cat necessities and we had a voluntary roster to make sure she was looked after (food etc) over the holiday periods. Her photo was on the notice board as the "head of pest control."

Then (a couple of months after I left the place having been made redundant) a smart-ass young kid manager decided the cat was "unhygienic" and must be persuaded to leave- he told the workshop lads anyone caught feeding her would be disciplined.  The cat was such a pet by now she had a new home within the week and the rodents were back within the month (and as with most such seagull managers, after making a noise and mess everywhere this chap left- but the rodents didn't).

GC
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: andrewc on 15 August, 2021, 08:26:22 pm
Was it really 2 years ago I started this thread ?    Parents complained of a very nasty smell upstairs in their house.    I ventured into the loft & there was a definite hum , and also a few flies buzzing around. 


After the last incursion I left loads of traps up there,  but hadn't been up to check in over a year.   2 dead rats ,  one practically mummified,  the other a bit fresher,  the springbar of the trap embedded in a load of tiny wiggly maggoty things.   


Into a plastic bag with the corpse & nuked the area with dettol.   I suppose I'll have to re-check next week & reset & bait all the traps.  :(

Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: ian on 16 August, 2021, 09:25:50 am
Back in my student days I used to work in a flour mill. Big rats. Lots of rats.

Then I worked in an animal feed mill. Let me just say, we had rats we'd only approach in a battalion of forklift trucks with makeshift armour and weapons. There was a factory cat but it only ate Whiskers. Those rats were immune to all poisons and probably high explosives, their diet of high-energy, antibiotic and vitamin-filled animal feeds pretty much made them invincible.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: CommuteTooFar on 16 August, 2021, 12:00:55 pm
Cats are scared of large rats.  When you really want to get rid of a rat problem, use terriers to chase the rats into the path of a man with a pole mallet. Splat, no more rat, no room for the squeamish. To repeat dogs not cats.
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Gattopardo on 26 September, 2021, 09:16:08 pm
There was a rat in my kitchen, I used two large spring loaded traps.  One baited with Nutella and one baited with peanut butter.  Monsiur le rat ate the nutella and didn't set off the expensive trap then went to nibble peanut butter and set the trap off.

Had to finish him off, as it didn't kill him.

Now feel bad about torturing a rat before I killed him with a spade
Title: Re: There's a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
Post by: Kim on 26 September, 2021, 09:54:10 pm
Then I worked in an animal feed mill. Let me just say, we had rats we'd only approach in a battalion of forklift trucks with makeshift armour and weapons.

Legend has it this is how Robot Wars was invented.