Tour de France 2018

[citoyen]

Slightly OT. Do I remember a 'night of the long knives' in T $ky around that time? Where people were declared guilty by association and asked to leave?

Yates was among those asked to leave when people finally started to admit what we had all known all along. Brailsford's line was that he'd asked people to sign a disclaimer when they joined the organisation and he was as disappointed and surprised as the rest of us when the truth came out.

Except that no one was even slightly surprised about Yates. Except Brailsford, apparently.

I still like Yates though. He could read a race better than anyone else on the team and was extremely valuable to Sky in the early years. Their tactical naivety was exposed for a while when he left.

[Exit Stage Left]

Yates was the only role model for a British rider of Bradley's build in the early 1990s. At the other end of the inspiration spectrum was Robert Millar, who was more of a challenger than a workhorse.

The obvious home for Wiggins was Credit Agricole, who had guided the career of extremely classy riders, without resorting to drugs. He was there for a while, after advice from Boardman. Another role model was the other Millar.

Before Athens I wanted to stop [road] cycling,' said Wiggins as he prepared to depart for Australia, reed-thin after several months of the most intensive road training he has ever done. 'I'd got sick of the road scene in the early season. I'd been ill, there had been pressure because I was not performing. I hit a bit of a low in April. The Cofidis affair started coming out, the first rumours about David Millar started coming out in L'Equipe , and I thought, "For God's sake, not Dave as well. 'I'd always looked up to Dave as a person with similar build, similar physical power to me, and I'd thought I can do what Dave's doing one day on the road, I'm as powerful as him and I just need a few years of concentrated road riding as well. It all started coming out and by the Tour it was all out about him. I thought that after Athens was all over if I won I would be totally satisfied with what I had achieved and I could stop.'I got a bit pissed off about it all, a bit embittered towards the professional scene. I felt a bit embarrassed to be part of it really, especially when I came back into the British team. They were shell-shocked by it [the Cofidis affair and the Millar revelations] because they knew nothing about it, they'd just invested a bit more time in Dave the previous two years.' He has met Millar since the 28-year-old Scot's dramatic fall from grace, and feels more sympathy than bitterness towards him. 'I feel sorry for him in many ways. He's lost an awful lot. He was an icon in the world of cycling, he had that sort of rock-star persona, and everyone liked him.'

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2005/jan/16/cycling.williamfotheringham

[Hot Flatus]

Brailsford was arrested along with David Millar.

Brailsford is fully aware of the history of cycling. It didn't stop him employing former USPS rider Michael Barry, and Rabobank's doping doctor, Geert Leinders, amongst a host of other tainted riders and staff.

Sean Yates had also worked for Armstrong for 6 years, in Dicovery and Astana. He claimed that during those years he never saw anything suspicious.

It always struck me that operating a ZTP for prior doping was a foolish PR stunt. Brailsford knowingly employed tainted people, and in some respects could hardly have avoided so doing given the reliance on doping of the prior generation of riders and the complicity of their staff.

It is just one of the many things which have caught him out and it may well be that it is the hypocrisy and taking fans for idiots that has lead to such an audible dislike of Team Sky at the roadside and jersey ceremonies.

[citoyen]

It always struck me that operating a ZTP for prior doping was a foolish PR stunt.

Naive at best, if you're feeling charitable.

Brailsford's terrible PR skills are definitely a large part of the reason Sky are so widely disliked.

[Exit Stage Left]

Brailsford is a bit conflicted by the dual leadership. He's English, but speaks Welsh, and has appeared in Pobol y Cwm.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/sir-dave-brailsford-appears-in-welsh-language-tv-soap-opera-208584

[Mr Larrington]

Moscon gets thrown off the race for throwing a punch at a French rider.  Last year Bouhanni got a meaningless time penalty and a paltry fine for throwing a punch at a New Zealander.  Surely there could not be an ulterior motive at work?  Especially considering who Moscon rides for

C Prudhomme:

Et votre point, c'est quoi exactement? Bof, u Ingleesh!

NB: above may contain traces of unfounded conspiracy theory

Repeat offense is more a logical reason in Moscon's case. Fielding him for a major ride is going to be a liability since he had a few issues already and by now will be closely watched by the jury.

Bouhanni's got previous as well; he had to DNS the 2016 French National road race after injuring his hand in an altercation in his hotel the night before the event.

[citoyen]

Bouhanni's got previous as well

I wonder if this is part of the reason Cofidis had the good sense to leave Bouhanni at home, even though he is the team's second-highest scorer on the UCI rankings (three of their current Tour squad have precisely zero UCI ranking points). He's certainly not a popular rider in the peloton.

Whether or not Sky sack Moscon, ASO could ban them from selecting him for the Tour in future - they'd probably have more luck with that than their attempt to ban Froome.

[andyoxon]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/jul/23/chris-froome-happy-sacrifice-fifth-tour-de-france-geraint-thomas

Though it still depends on how G does in the pyrenees...

[citoyen]

Didn't Hinault once say he wouldn't attack LeMond in a similar situation?

[drgannet]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/jul/23/chris-froome-happy-sacrifice-fifth-tour-de-france-geraint-thomas

Though it still depends on how G does in the pyrenees...

As quixoticgeek said upthread, Froome to attack on the first or second mountain of stage 17 then!

If Sky are only interested in winning the tour, but not with whom, then this might not be a bad tactic; it stands a chance of creating a bigger gap between Dumoulin and either Froome or Thomas.

[Von Broad]

However, he included Wiggins’s inane but sinister ramblings in full. Makes up for the later omission?

The most interesting part of @SirWiggo's contribution yesterday was what he did not say - one of the viewer questions asked who were his heroes when he was a young rider. He mentioned Indurain and Museeuw, but there was one name he conspicuously left out - a rider who he has cited numerous times in the past as one of his great inspirations...

That's a great shame IMO. Like him or loath him [personally I don't have as strong a feeling of antipathy towards him as most people do here], but Armstrong was and is a very inspirational kind of person. Looking at his career from the outside, on face value, which is all most people could ever do at the time, Armstrong's endeavours were inspirational, and it's personally reasonable to understand why somebody like Wiggins would be inspired by him. There must have been countless others that were too. I can understand why he wouldn't want to go there, and he's probably best not too, but it's a shame that Wiggins can't just admit to it really. Internally, it has to be more uncomfortable not too.   

I listened to the first part of that Wiggins interview, and was getting quite drawn in but then had to go and do some work [ ] so missed that section.

[mattc]

Brailsford was arrested along with David Millar.

Is that actually correct? As I recall from DM's book, he was dining with Brailsford when he was arrested, and Dave was the main person to visit him and give advice while he was under police detention. (and then paid for psychologist Peters to come down and advise Millar!)

But I don't recall that *Brailsford* was arrested. A quick google around the subject is inconclusive. Still, I guess it would leave quite an impression if a pro-rider (and friend) was arrested at your dining table!

(In the book, Millar paints the other Dave as still being very anti-doping at that stage. )

[Torslanda]

'Racing Into The Dark'? Just about to start it. I'll keep you posted . . .

[citoyen]

(In the book, Millar paints the other Dave as still being very anti-doping at that stage. )

Don't forget that Brailsford was still a British Cycling employee at the time, with no experience of the world of pro road racing, and had only just taken over the cycling programme from Peter Keen. I find it plausible that it was a genuine surprise to him that Millar was doping.

Team Sky was but a distant glimmer in his eye in 2004. I don't think he developed an interest in road racing until after the 2008 Olympics, when Nicole Cooke and Emma Pooley won medals despite Team GB's involvement.

[Von Broad]

'Racing Into The Dark'? Just about to start it. I'll keep you posted . . .

If he writes as well as he articulates, there's a strong chance that book's going to be a good read.
Just ordered it myself!

[Torslanda]

As long as it isn't full of pointless tourist info about chateaux. 

[Hot Flatus]

It's an excellent read

[Exit Stage Left]

Brailsford spent four years as a sponsored amateur in France. Prior to lottery funding, that was the route into pro-cycling.

Riders knew that turning pro meant taking drugs, so either you accepted that, or came home with your tail between your legs. Some had the option of further education, and a job in sport.

Brailsford came along at the right time, as did the first wave of lottery-funded riders. They could get paid to ride on the track in pursuit of medals, for the new East Germany.

I'm quite interested in those who nearly made it under both systems.

[cygnet]

Has anyone seen a quintessential Yellow Jersey rest day photograph yet?

(e.g. G in his yellow jersey sitting outside a café with an espresso and reading l'Equipe)

Or did Sky stop doing that?

[citoyen]

Brailsford spent four years as a sponsored amateur in France.

Good point, I forgot about that.

Riders knew that turning pro meant taking drugs, so either you accepted that, or came home with your tail between your legs.

So I suppose that makes his feigned innocence about characters like Yates and Leinders sound even less plausible.

[Hot Flatus]

Leinders was recommended to him by a member of his team staff, Stefan de Jongh, who had been doped by Leinders whilst a rider in Rabobank. Michael Rasmussen was doped by him too, and Rasmussen revealed that Leinders ran the doping programme.

Funnily enough, as soon as Leinders was appointed (on a 'consultancy' basis) Froome went from mid-pack nobody to greatest GT rider of generation and Sky went from being nowhere to a non-stop GT winning team (bar Froome's crash out in '14)

I'm sure it's just coincidence.

Leinders was given a lifetime ban 3 years ago as it was deemed he had:

"“possessed, trafficked, and administered banned performance enhancing substances and methods without any legitimate medical need, including EPO, blood transfusion paraphernalia, testosterone, insulin, DHEA, LH and corticosteroids to athletes under his care, and was complicit in other anti-doping rule violations.”

[Exit Stage Left]

A headmaster knows that some of his pupils will be taking drugs. He can expect 'omertà' from most of the pupils, as dobbing people in is social suicide.

He also knows that some teachers will have experimented with drugs, and might still do some, as might parents.

If a pupil dies of an overdose, or a teacher is found dealing, a crackdown ensues. Otherwise things proceed as usual, unless some sheltered innocent joins the staff, and starts blowing whistles.

In general it's a good idea to reduce drug dependency, and that should be the aspiration, but that won't ever stop the cool kids.

[Peter]

For cool kids read "tossers".

An Teacher.

[Torslanda]

FFS! Somebody change the record . . .

[Hot Flatus]

FFS! Somebody change the record . . .

Slightly OT. Do I remember a 'night of the long knives' in T $ky around that time? Where people were declared guilty by association and asked to leave?

Or have I been sniffing the Harpic again?