Author Topic: Brakes-Compatabilty  (Read 1415 times)

Brakes-Compatabilty
« on: 29 August, 2018, 12:51:47 pm »
I've a new set of Shimano 105 ST-5800 Levers which i want to use on my bike that has got (and needs) long drop R451 brake calipers on it just now, Will there be any issue with braking on this set up? i can't seem to find any info on the Shimano tech docs.
Mind of a cyclist, body of a dart player.

Re: Brakes-Compatabilty
« Reply #1 on: 29 August, 2018, 01:51:37 pm »
The cable pull for any rim caliper drop length should be the same, AFAIK.
I am often asked, what does YOAV stand for? It stands for Yoav On A Velo

Re: Brakes-Compatabilty
« Reply #2 on: 29 August, 2018, 01:59:51 pm »
The compatibility chart here (page 21) lists them as compatible but "Braking power is slightly less than standard combination":

http://productinfo.shimano.com/download/pdf/com/2.0/en

I don't think any of the other callipers listed as fully compatible are long drop, so you can't do better, at least with Shimano kit.

(unless you buy Tourney levers, for some reason)

Re: Brakes-Compatabilty
« Reply #3 on: 29 August, 2018, 02:49:51 pm »
Shimano have changed their 'road' brake cable pull. The new brake cable pull 'New Super SLR' (NSSLR) is significantly longer than the old one and the levers have a lower mechanical advantage (MA).  With (I think) just one exception, if you are using STIs with a model launch date 2008 or later, they are NSSLR type, and should be matched with NSSLR type calipers.

It isn't a small difference BTW; NSSLR calipers have an MA of about 1.75 (or more if the brake blocks are high up in the slots) and older DPs have an MA of ~1.25 to 1.5 or so.

Shimano don't make a NSSLR type longer reach caliper, so the BR451/BR650 etc model calipers (which work really well with 1992-2008 STIs BTW) limp on in their model range with (as pointed out above) a dotted line in the compatibility charts, indicating that you get 'reduced power'.

In fact it is worse than that; you would presumably only buy longer reach calipers if you actually need them, which means that the brake blocks are likely to be in the lower half of the adjustment slots anyway, thus further weakening the brake power....

IIRC there is a Tektro model of brake that has a longer reach and is NSSLR compatible; it is identified by Tektro as being 'new type pull ratio' or something. If in doubt you can look at the layout of a DP caliper and see if it is similar to a known NSSLR type one or not; NSSLR calipers are laid out quite differently from older type DPs.

cheers

Re: Brakes-Compatabilty
« Reply #4 on: 29 August, 2018, 08:02:18 pm »
Thanks for the replies folks but I've since discovered that the brakes that came with the group set (5800) do indeed fit despite me thinking otherwise  :-\ I'd based my opinion on the info from my Van Nicholas forks which state a 57mm drop, the brakes I have state 49mm  ??? It all works anyway  :thumbsup:
Mind of a cyclist, body of a dart player.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Brakes-Compatabilty
« Reply #5 on: 29 August, 2018, 09:13:20 pm »
Brakes always work with any lever, for varying values of "work"!  Obviously V-brakes with normal levers are poor (massive power but the pad to rim clearance has to be miniscule, causing rubbing on every climb).  More subtly, everyone thinks low-profile cantilever brakes are a bit meh, but you should try them with the old DX 4 finger MTB levers.  They almost tear your face off when you brake hard. 
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

IanN

  • Voon
Re: Brakes-Compatabilty
« Reply #6 on: 30 August, 2018, 07:45:08 pm »
I believe the TRP RG957 is New Super SLR compatible.
The info from manufacturers is notoriously sketchy, so I'm relying on internet 'wisdom' there.