Logical Disconnect

[hellymedic]

The tragic tale of the off-duty policeman who died following a crash is here. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-47982335

I don't understand (or, truthfully, I disagree) with this statement.

He added that while PC Flint had been travelling at around 83mph, his speed was not a factor in his death.

I REALLY don't think it's likely there would have been fatal consequences at 20mph.

[T42]

Probably meant that if he'd hit it at 70 mph he'd have been just as dead.

[Giraffe]

Sort of correct - not the speed but the acceleration.

[mattc]

I must just have a different logic in my head, thanks to maths lessons in school. My thoughts are that if the motorcyclist was travelling at 70mph instead of 83mph then he would have arrived at the precise place later than he did and the bird would have already have crossed his path and been gone by the time he got there.

I will check with my maths teacher friend, but I reckon he would also have been safe at 85mph. Thanks for making this point 

[chrisbainbridge]

i wonder if the comment about the speed is with regard to insurance payout? Speed clearly was relevant.  he hit a pheasant at 83mph.  I suspect that was enough to break his neck and then hitting the recovery vehicle was the deciding factor.

we all know that the energy transfer rises with the square of the speed.  This is why 20mph is so much safer than 30mph in built up areas.

Ultimately though, just an incredibly sad and tragic event

[Beardy]

Speed, like falling, doesn’t kill, it’s the sudden transfer of energy involved in a collision that does the damage. Greater speed means greater energy and thus the survivability of the situation is greatly diminished. Ultimately though, it’s all about being in the wrong place at the wrong time and seconds either way can make a vast difference to the outcome.

[fuaran]

Why aren't those releasing the pheasants liable for causing crashes?
They would for any other livestock. Except pheasants magically become wild animals after they are released.
https://www.monbiot.com/2014/04/28/the-shooting-party/

[rogerzilla]

Because rich and powerful people breed them.

Seriously, you're not responsible for your cat either (which is just as well, since they do whatever they like).  Only dogs and some farm animals.

[rafletcher]

As a daily commuter on that stretch of road, I was very surprised that it was a pheasant strike. In 15 years I’d not seen one, dead or alive, along there. It’s certainly not close to any shoots, so it must have been a wild one. As to the speed, I hit a pheasant whilst driving my car, at around 50mph, and it was enough to completely destroy a headlight.  Had he hit a pheasant at 50 or over, it would almost certainly have shoved him back on the bike enough to loose control momentarily, and thus hit the other vehicle. You don’t have a death grip on the bars. 

[Ruthie]

Pheasants are stupid.  Suicidally stupid.  They probably startled at the noise of his engines and flew straight into him.  So whatever speed he was going he'd have hit them.

[hellymedic]

He might have hit the pheasant at any speed.
Hitting a pheasant is not inherently lethal. Pheasants are smaller than deer and several here have hit deer and lived to tell the tale.
What is lethal is losing control of a motorbike at 83mph.

[Torslanda]

I believe - through no other medium than nebulous experience* - that the bird strike would have been fatal at any speed down to as low as 50mph. I also believe this is why 'speed was not a factor' but it's just my opinion...



*Because I ride motorbikes, because I've been hit by various objects from insects to tomatoes, at varying speeds. It's by no means common.

[T42]

No news of the pheasant, then.

[spesh]

No news of the pheasant, then.

Tenderised. probably.

[mattc]

He might have hit the pheasant at any speed.
Hitting a pheasant is not inherently lethal. Pheasants are smaller than deer and several here have hit deer and lived to tell the tale.
What is lethal is losing control of a motorbike at 83mph.

Only some of the time. [Google "MotoGP crashes" or similar if you don't believe me!]

Just as losing control of a bicycle at 30mph is sometimes fatal.

[drossall]

Speed, like falling, doesn’t kill, it’s the sudden transfer of energy involved in a collision that does the damage.

It's terribly sad, and sounds like a completely unpredictable accident. It's worth reflecting, though, that energy transfer is related to the square of speed, and 83^2 is 40% more than 70^2. Chances are the coroner is right that a 40% reduction wouldn't have been enough to change the outcome, but it brings it home how much difference "a little over the limit" can make.

[Torslanda]

He might have hit the pheasant at any speed.
Hitting a pheasant is not inherently lethal. Pheasants are smaller than deer and several here have hit deer and lived to tell the tale.
What is lethal is losing control of a motorbike at 83mph.

Only some of the time. [Google "MotoGP crashes" or similar if you don't believe me!]

Just as losing control of a bicycle at 30mph is sometimes fatal.

Matt. Please stop being deliberately obtuse.

The reason the vast majority of MotoGP crashes result in a lack of serious injury is because there is FUCK ALL TO HIT. GP riding is about as far removed from domestic motorcycling as it is possible to be whilst being on similar vehicles.

I know you know this.

Do us a favour. Have a day off from it...

[mattc]

Here's 3 simple steps for you to consider:
- Tell me what your point is.

- Tell me why you disagree with what I've posted.

- Provide some logical justification for both.

Then we can talk - just telling someone they're "being obtuse" isn't very constructive!

[Torslanda]

I haven't the energy.

[matthew]

My father once hit a pigeon at somewhere north of 70 on a motorway. Fourtunately the impact was on the crown of his helmet as it was an open face helmet.

Unfortunately the impact was fatal for the pigeon. Apparently feeling a thump and reaching to the helmet then bringing a bloody hand away was rather unnerving.

[FifeingEejit]

The tragic tale of the off-duty policeman who died following a crash is here. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-47982335

I don't understand (or, truthfully, I disagree) with this statement.

He added that while PC Flint had been travelling at around 83mph, his speed was not a factor in his death.

I REALLY don't think it's likely there would have been fatal consequences at 20mph.

Presumably the speed is mentioned in this context because it's in excess of the limit and the coroner is ruling that had PC Flint adhered to the speed limit, the bird strike would still have been fatal.
At 20mph the result could still have been a fatal accident, but the bird strike itself probably wouldn't have been.
At 60mph (I'm assuming this is the limit on that road), the bird strike very probably would still have been.

[rafletcher]

It’s a 70mph limit dual carriageway. Originally destined to be the M41 but was downgraded before construction, and not built to motorway standards.

[fuzzy]

I knew and worked with Kev. Old SchoolCopper described him to a tee. A really nice bloke who would go out of his way to help anyone in trouble. I mean anyone. Not just the nice folk.

I'm not getting involved in any discussions about speed and whether it contributed. He was worth more than that.