Author Topic: Bivvy bags and bikes  (Read 6483 times)

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Bivvy bags and bikes
« on: 25 August, 2015, 07:41:56 pm »
For various reasons I've been inspired to look into bivvy bags, and reread the excellent - and hilarious - Book of the Bivvy (dead tree format from Cicerone).

There is a lot of discussion/info out there on pedestrian bivvying, but not much by cyclists. And the cyclists are mostly adventure racers in hot climates. I'm considering a lot of types of use*, but one is definitely for 600km+ rides (mainly in the UK) where I dont usually have enough time-in-hand for hotels/hostels.

this is a big subject, so I guess I'm after any  real-world experience from UK riders on sensible budgets, hopefully to help me ..er ... see the wood from the trees!


*It would be useful to have something that doubles up as a hill-walking emergency backup. I guess
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Bivvy bags and bikes
« Reply #1 on: 25 August, 2015, 07:51:27 pm »
Might I suggest you take advice from those Essex chaps.  They appear to be expert on bivvying.

I have bivvied in the past during mountaineering and took bivvy bag (Goretex or equivalent), light sleeping mat, sleeping bag appropriate to altitude and temperature.

I am looking at some cycle touring using a bivvy system and have recently purchased the Alpkit bivvy bag.  The rest of the kit I already have (and did have a nice bivvy bag until someone borrowed it and forgot to return it!).

Getting a bag with a little extra space is worth it IMO as is keeping the mat inside the bad, unless the ground is rough.

Re: Bivvy bags and bikes
« Reply #2 on: 25 August, 2015, 08:00:19 pm »
The Bike & Bivi Facebook group is a public group so you can browse it without signing up (if you don't 'Facebook').  :thumbsup:
If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is...

Aunt Maud

  • Le Flâneur.
Re: Bivvy bags and bikes
« Reply #3 on: 25 August, 2015, 08:19:39 pm »
I use a lightweight tent because:

I can't stand bivvy bags.
They're rubbish when it's raining.
I can't get dressed in them.
I can't eat breakfast in them.
They're claustrophobic.
My tent packs down to the size of a bivvy bag, except for the poles and weighs just a fraction more.

I'll add:

I can't pack my bag whilst sitting in a bivvy bag, or flap my arms around in my sleep either.

Re: Bivvy bags and bikes
« Reply #4 on: 25 August, 2015, 08:42:01 pm »
I`ve just bought a Lifesystems bivi survival bag---£15 , plastic / Al internal coated, 200gm thereabouts and packs to size small rainjacket; spacious too at 210 cm long 80 cm wide.

 https://www.lifesystems.co.uk/product/outdoor-survival/light-dry-bivi-bag#details-section 

Seems to me to be a good way forwards as my existing Goretex type bivi weighed 700gm and packed quite large. Minimalistic bag, probably bit sweaty but....Intend using it with a thermarest mattress inside it
....after the `tarte de pommes`, and  fortified by a couple of shots of limoncellos,  I flew up the Col de Bavella whilst thunderstorms rolled around the peaks above

Re: Bivvy bags and bikes
« Reply #5 on: 25 August, 2015, 08:46:11 pm »
.......... probably bit sweaty but....

I think it will be!

Re: Bivvy bags and bikes
« Reply #6 on: 25 August, 2015, 08:50:56 pm »
....after the `tarte de pommes`, and  fortified by a couple of shots of limoncellos,  I flew up the Col de Bavella whilst thunderstorms rolled around the peaks above

Re: Bivvy bags and bikes
« Reply #7 on: 25 August, 2015, 08:57:24 pm »
Sweaty is moist/wet and far better to be dry IMO.  Personal choice and if you're happy then great!  Some people just purchase a 'boil in the bag' jacket for the rain while others use something more breathable.  One of the many choices in life!

Re: Bivvy bags and bikes
« Reply #8 on: 25 August, 2015, 09:04:37 pm »
Unfortunately I`m one of the more perspiring types so no matter what hyper breathable high tech rain jkt (or bivibag) I have I end up rather damp from perspiration :(

So in this case I`m giving cheaper and hopefully cheerful option a go--although may regret it.
....after the `tarte de pommes`, and  fortified by a couple of shots of limoncellos,  I flew up the Col de Bavella whilst thunderstorms rolled around the peaks above

Aunt Maud

  • Le Flâneur.
Re: Bivvy bags and bikes
« Reply #9 on: 25 August, 2015, 09:17:03 pm »
Wet's not so good if you've got a down bag, even if it's got some fancy hydrophobic coating on it.

mmmmartin

  • BPB 1/1: PBP 0/1
    • FNRttC
Re: Bivvy bags and bikes
« Reply #10 on: 25 August, 2015, 09:19:55 pm »
eBay will provide an ex-army bivi bag goretex for about £15, as good as anything on the market. they are simpler than a tent and keep you warm when in a bus shelter, and you don't necessarily need to lie on the wet and cold ground. weigh about the same as a full water bottle. i se it in cold weaher to add a season to a two-season down bag.
Besides, it wouldn't be audacious if success were guaranteed.

Re: Bivvy bags and bikes
« Reply #11 on: 25 August, 2015, 09:59:09 pm »
Matt, you might want to have a word with the very lovely Emily Chappell who, I am sure, will have much wisdom on this subject.

Twitter: @emilychappell

Web: http://thatemilychappell.com/
You're only as successful as your last 1200...

Re: Bivvy bags and bikes
« Reply #12 on: 26 August, 2015, 06:36:52 am »
I use a lightweight tent because:

I can't stand bivvy bags.
They're rubbish when it's raining.
I can't get dressed in them.
I can't eat breakfast in them.
They're claustrophobic.
My tent packs down to the size of a bivvy bag, except for the poles and weighs just a fraction more.

I'll add:

I can't pack my bag whilst sitting in a bivvy bag, or flap my arms around in my sleep either.

And you don't have to worry about a rat walking over your face while you're asleep.

What tent do you use ?
123 Miles East of Marsh Gibbon

Aunt Maud

  • Le Flâneur.
Re: Bivvy bags and bikes
« Reply #13 on: 26 August, 2015, 07:36:30 am »
Terra Nova Laser Competition 1.

Used it on rides over 600 except The Pendle and left it pitched in a secluded but well guarded place in Fougères on PBP for a nice sleep on the way to and from Brest.

Pitched it on the lawn at Kings on the way out on The BCM. It can be fiddly to pitch, but when I get it right it goes up in a couple of minutes.

It's best to leave the inner and outer all connected with the small poles still in place and just take the centre pole out before rolling it up. Then when you pitch it again it goes up really quick and I leave the fly door open to reduce condensation as much as possible.

If you use the footprint instead of the inner the weight reduces to 580g, which is very light, as light as my snoretex bivvy bag even.

1000km camping with a Barley including a spare set of riding clothes.


Re: Bivvy bags and bikes
« Reply #14 on: 26 August, 2015, 08:12:15 am »
Terra Nova Laser Competition 1.

Used it on rides over 600 except The Pendle and left it pitched in a secluded but well guarded place in Fougères on PBP for a nice sleep on the way to and from Brest.

Pitched it on the lawn at Kings on the way out on The BCM. It can be fiddly to pitch, but when I get it right it goes up in a couple of minutes.

It's best to leave the inner and outer all connected with the small poles still in place and just take the centre pole out before rolling it up. Then when you pitch it again it goes up really quick and I leave the fly door open to reduce condensation as much as possible.

If you use the footprint instead of the inner the weight reduces to 580g, which is very light, as light as my snoretex bivvy bag even.

1000km camping with a Barley including a spare set of riding clothes.



Thanks I will take a look at that  ;D
123 Miles East of Marsh Gibbon

Re: Bivvy bags and bikes
« Reply #15 on: 26 August, 2015, 09:34:04 am »
Love mine. Better than most of the shite half-man sized tents so beloved by cycle tourists.

My only issue when using mine is once being mistaken for a dead body.

wilkyboy

  • "nick" by any other name
    • 16-inch wheels
Re: Bivvy bags and bikes
« Reply #16 on: 26 August, 2015, 10:26:52 am »
I took an Alpkit bivi bag, Therm-a-rest NeoAir short mat, sleeping bag liner and inflatable pillow with me on PBP.  It turned out to be Good Decision:

0) Slept on the ferry on the bivi bag, in the liner with the mat and pillow
1) Slept in a gateway in the shade out of the hot hot sun, just the mat and pillow
2) Slept on the dining room floor in Carhaix on the bivi bag, in the liner with the mat and pillow
3) Slept in the corridor at Tinténiac on the bivi bag, in the liner, etc.
4) Slept on the floor at Mortagne with just the pillow
5) Slept on my hands at Dreux
6) Slept on the ferry on the bivi bag, in the liner with the mat and pillow

TBH, I've never actually slept INSIDE the bivi bag — I've always been generating so much heat that I've not needed to, nor have I tried it in inclement weather, I've just used it as a ground mat.  However, the Alpkit bag is about 280g, whereas a military GoreTex bag is more like 750g.  The NeoAir Short weighs a trifling 160g or something — I couldn't believe it when I first got it!  A pillow is a necessity for me and my neck and if I had to pick one piece, that would be it.  I only slept in one dorm on PBP and even then only for 40 minutes (which took a fair bit of explaining to the guys on the door).

I have slept out on mountains in bivi bags before (walking, not biking) and it was fun, but I can see the attraction of a tent.
Lockdown lethargy. RRTY: wot's that? Can't remember if I'm on #8 or #9 ...

Re: Bivvy bags and bikes
« Reply #17 on: 26 August, 2015, 11:11:56 am »
I generally take one of the Lifesystems-style ones on any long rides and into remote terrain.
Never used it on PBP
Maggie used one at her audax hotel stop on BCM600, but then she's nowhere near as sweaty as me.

We did buy 'silk' liners in preparation for HGWI 1300 but in the end that was DNS and the forecast for PBP was mild enough that I left mine out in favour of other items.

The way i look at it, if you are setting out to bivvi, it's worth the expense and weight of something with pretensions to breathability.  If bivvying is a fall-back option then go as small & light as possible. Mine's only 110g and would fit comfortably in jersey pocket.

wilkyboy

  • "nick" by any other name
    • 16-inch wheels
Re: Bivvy bags and bikes
« Reply #18 on: 26 August, 2015, 11:32:16 am »
The way i look at it, if you are setting out to bivvi, it's worth the expense and weight of something with pretensions to breathability.  If bivvying is a fall-back option then go as small & light as possible. Mine's only 110g and would fit comfortably in jersey pocket.

I used a lightweight orange foil bag on The Flatlands and slept for about an hour before it started raining on me inside the bag from condensation — it woke me up and I continued on.  I've no idea whether the same would or wouldn't happen with the semi-breathable Alpkit bag — something to try next year ... or perhaps next month (final ride of the season, I'm tempted, a little, into doing a DIY600 and completing 3x SRs for this year).
Lockdown lethargy. RRTY: wot's that? Can't remember if I'm on #8 or #9 ...

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Bivvy bags and bikes
« Reply #19 on: 28 August, 2015, 04:44:43 pm »
Interesting comments, thanks all. I'm sort of, vaguely, kinda, firming up my ideas (and guffawing over the Donald Turnbull book).

Currently also thinking similar to this:
... with the semi-breathable Alpkit bag — something to try next year ... or perhaps next month (final ride of the season, I'm tempted, a little, into doing a DIY600

<snippage>
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Bivvy bags and bikes
« Reply #20 on: 29 August, 2015, 05:31:42 pm »
Well bivvying with a bike is maybe the one thing I do know something about. Last year I cycled from St Petersburg to Lands End and then up to the Orkney Islands and also across South Africa. I probably spent 80-90% of the nights in my bivvy bag.

It worked great for us and bivvys have many advantages. I don't think many people have given them a fair chance and so they're a bit understood.

So first the arguments for, or the defense of the bivvy.
They’re adaptability; you can sleep on it, sleep in it with your head out looking at the sky, shelter in it from a thunderstorm, use half of it while your upper body is in bus shelter, use it as a sleeping bag cover while sleeping in a cave, sit up in it propped up against a hay bale, hide behind a hedge or almost anything else and squeeze in a comfortable place to sleep between trees or in moss or almost anywhere.

The advantage over tents is that that a bivvy doesn't need to be erected or pegged out. You can just roll it up and move on if you need to. You don't need flat soft ground where you can put pegs in or anything to tie of guy ropes to. You don't look like you're setting up shop either so people aren’t so worried about you catching some shut eye in the town green.

Tents in the weight range of good bivvy bags are made of lightweight delicate materials. They're the kind of thing's that I end up trying to avoid using for fear of wearing them out, or carry a groundsheet to to protect it. Or a branch can poke a hole in it. They often are very small and/or are single skin and/or have openings so if you wriggle round in the night you end up getting wet.

A bivvy isn't claustrophobic. It's the opposite, it's just a waterproof, hopefully breathable sleeping bag cover, so the world is your tent. Most of the time you can sleep with your head out looking at the stars. And if it starts raining a rain drop on the face always wakes you up and you pull the hood over your head and go back to sleep. If you roll over the bivvy can roll with you.

Bivvy's come in a wide range of prices. From £5 all the way up to hundreds of pounds. The main differentiator in price is the breathability of the fabric, with the most expensive being made out of Goretex and Event. The very cheapest ones are basically plastic bags which I wouldn't recommend for anything but emergency situations. You'd end up pretty wet after a good nights sleep. However for £10-£15 I got one from Mountain Warehouse which was serviceable.

I have a bivvy which is big enough for me to get changed inside and fit all my gear inside if I want. I'm 6'2" and 105kg.

There a few tricks to bivvy bags which I think people used to tents miss out on. The main being airflow. With a tent people seek sheltered locations. However with a bivvy you want a bit of exposure. The best place is probably on top of a hill. Just the slightest bit of airflow over your bivvy can really help the bag breath and make sure you don't have any condensation.

However maybe 5% of the time the elements conspire against you and you can get a bit of condensation in even the best bag and the outside of you sleeping bag can get a bit damp. It doesn't matter though, you still had a good night sleep. If you're only staying out one or two nights it doesn't matter. Otherwise you can stop to dry out your sleeping bag in the sun or spend the odd night night in a hostel/motel to dry things out. Sleeping bags can definitely get wet in tents too when water drips or you end up sleeping against the fly.

When looking for a bag. There's 2 nice features that I had. Most bivvy's are designed for or copied of those designed for alpine use above the tree line where midges aren't a problem. If you want to use your bag in summer I'd look for one with mosquito netting or you're going to have a bad time. The other thing is mine has a little bit of coat hanger wire in the rim. This is nice if you need the top closed during rain and you like sleeping on your back. You can bend the wire to keep the bag off your face. Though I'm probably a front or side sleeper more often than not, so I'm fine anyway.

Well there. That’s maybe everything of use I know in the world :)

Re: Bivvy bags and bikes
« Reply #21 on: 29 August, 2015, 08:55:27 pm »
Agree with BrokeButt that bivvy bags are underrated and misunderstood. I can also see why people are put off by their limitations compared with tents and similar. I used a bivvy bag alone for many years but would not go back to using it as my main protection from the elements. My experience in brief:

In 1990 I bought a goretex bivvy bag with built-in insect net. Along with a 300g down sleeping bag, it formed my sleeping system on numerous walking / backpacking trips and on my first long cycle tour in 1997 (when I also took along a clear plastic sheet to keep off heavier rain). Throughout this period, the sleeping bag never became more than patchily wet, even in thunderstorms. This was mainly due to rainwater forming pools on the mat underneath and seeping in through seams. I still have this bivvy; the goretex long ago became ineffective, but otherwise it is in good shape..

In 2000 I started using the bivvy with a tarp tent. I'm not sure how this compares weight-wise with a standard bikepackers tent, but don't think it can be a big difference. In fine weather, I sleep under the stars in the bivvy. This is a major plus, IMO. When there's a possibility of rain, I put up the tent and but fold over half of the flysheet, ready to peg it down at the first raindrop. Only on rainy nights or on campsites do I sleep under the tent. The tarp tent is big enough to cover me and the bike  - another plus. 

Over the last few years I've used a heavier, synthetic sleeping bag and taken the bivvy bag only when there is possibility of insects (e.g. Scotland trip in 2010). 

What BrokeButt says about camping on high ground fits my experience with the tarp tent / bivvy and is a good reason for avoiding campsites, which are most often on lower ground in river valleys.


Aunt Maud

  • Le Flâneur.
Re: Bivvy bags and bikes
« Reply #22 on: 30 August, 2015, 07:07:39 am »
Agree with BrokeButt that bivvy bags are underrated and misunderstood.

Oh, I dunno, some of us have got over 20 years of extensive climbing and mountaineering experience to draw from when forming an opinion about bivvies v's lightweight tents.

Re: Bivvy bags and bikes
« Reply #23 on: 30 August, 2015, 09:28:26 am »
On the one hand I like camping and on the other I like bivvying ......there's only one way to decide this...https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Np6gyUb0E7o
Pete Crane E75 @petecrane5

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Bivvy bags and bikes
« Reply #24 on: 30 August, 2015, 02:53:40 pm »
The Bike & Bivi Facebook group is a public group so you can browse it without signing up (if you don't 'Facebook').  :thumbsup:
Ta!

From the small sample of recent posts,  they seeem mostly to be tarp and micro-tent users! But it IS a small sample ...
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles