Home / work use computer - what specs to look for?

[grams]

If the laptop was a 'dud' I'd take it back, the warranty date doesn't trump the sale of goods act.

All said though, with computers you get what you pay for, and cheap is cheap.

Yeah, but then you have to have an argument about whether it’s a software problem and whether it’s somehow your fault and “have you sent it back to the manufacturer?” and “well the warranty ends in a month, so it’s almost lasted!”*  and all that nonsense.

(* real example)

[TPMB12]

"then if it's not covered you'll get the bill."
"What could that be?"
"No idea but it could be a lot."
"OK give it back I'll go elsewhere" (or cut my losses) . "Thank you for your assistance"
(I'm not coming back here again).

Or something like that.

Meantime I found all manner of menus and ways to get it working again. One method works for a few times then suddenly it stops working so I use a different method that never worked earlier but has started to work now. Then it stops working and another method works. Really random at times.

[Kim]

One of the benefits of being the Apple special children on a primarily Windows mothership is that it means IT leave me alone and don't break the bloody thing.

I reckon, all else being equal (which on the desktop they aren't), Apple means that IT have do less to tread water than Microsoft.

This also applies to IOS vs Android - it may be less functional than Android (generally in ways that don't matter to a business), but it does the job of being a phone-that-can-do-email perfectly well and is likely to cause fewer hardware and security headaches.  Basically, it's the closest thing to Blackberry that's actively supported.

[TPMB12]

At work people often have problems with emails on their iPhone. A real pain. I set my own android phone up for work emails. I have unlimited data so I find it easier to use. It might just be me but I cannot stop the iPhone downloading old work emails repeatedly. With my android phone I stopped it straight away. I went around the office asking apple user after apple user and they were stumped. I've asked on relevant forums and no joy. Ended up being told our it had to change the way they had the email system set up to b accommodate the work phone. I am not joking here. I have had issues with apple products and simply use my work phone as a simple dumb phone now. Anything smart I switch to android, personal phone.

BTW I know others who are absolutely apple fanbois types. I mean to the tune of many thousands of pounds every year start to say they're no longer impressed with apple. The arch apple user (company director who sets up phone contract and it support) said he was impressed with the latest android phones and was considering switching. That was a shock statement because he was the type apple rely on to stand in queue to get the latest iPhone straight away on release.

Although he does say the computers are another matter. He says they're a joy to use but just don't work well with our network or he'd be using it at work too. He's got the money, I've got to get bang for my bucks.

[ian]

Look, I appreciate you have a bee in your bonnet about Apple, but honestly those of us who are happy with them aren't making other people buy them using our fruity mental telepathy. Frankly, if your email system is configured as any kind of IMAP service, it'll just work. Mine comes down from Exchange without a hitch. I'd suggest the problem is with your IT and not the device.

I don't really think the average Apple user spends 'many thousands of pounds every year.'

[TPMB12]

'm favouring windows 10 os and prefer office.

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Now, my use involves typical home use of Internet and email. On top of that I occasionally bring work home. Work has w10 and office (old version).

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OS? I am used to Windows and w10 of late. Linux never had it and iOS is something I am unlikely to ever agree with. I'm not  tweeker of the OS so I'm thinking Linux isn't for me.

Snip

So can anyone offer any advice?

OK I don't have a bee in my bonnet about anything. Apart from repeated apple recommendations. So I've quoted my original enquiry with edits to explain why I have found repeated apple recommendations a little annoying.

Btw I'm sorry of I've come across as strong about apple because it is my fault. I should have made it clearer by stating apple ios is out in my first post. I realise it's long and ppl tend not to read. However I did say I am unlikely to get on with ios and later clarified various reasons I have but it did seem apple were being pushed a bit too much.

Can I add here that I'm looking for windows os laptop to make it clear.

Although I am very interested in Linux but I'm not someone who finds tweaking os fun. I want to play around with Linux one day but it's not right now when my laptop really only gets turned on for specific jobs when I need to be productive. No time to play around with new os. Apple I don't like their os on phones so I really don't want to bother with their computer os.

[Kim]

Although I am very interested in Linux but I'm not someone who finds tweaking os fun.

In the interests of balance, having grown weary of OS tweaking is why I prefer Linux on the Desktop.  Sure, my computer looks like something from 1997 and the graphical file manager has a similar relationship to the truth to Boris Johnson, but it Just Works consistently and with little risk of some botched update or malware breaking everything and ruining my day.

Of course, it can't run Microsoft Office or Garmin Basecamp or other occasionally useful proprietary applications, so I end up arsing about in VMs from time to time.

And I accept that I'm reasonably competent at the *nix command line and have no fear of editing text files, but haven't intensively used a Windows machine since the XP era.  I find Windows 10 about as frustrating as OSX, in that it's mostly familiar, but there are frustrating gaps in my knowledge: "Where's the Device Manager?" "How do I scroll down?".  Anecdotally, *nix problems are easier to google for solutions to: You can just bung the error message into Google followed by "-ubuntu" and generally receive enlightenment, but the flip side of that is that you can be completely stuffed if you don't know the name of the thing you want.  (Android problems are the worst, because any given issue will lead to dozens of cargo-cult solutions from the sort of people who hang about on mobile phone forums.)

So yeah, Linux on the desktop is perfectly viable for normal use, but if it's a choice between learning *nix concepts from scratch or getting on with your life in some more irritating OS, I wouldn't recommend it.

[ian]

Everything builds around familiarity. I run a Ubuntu VM and still occasionally something will go wrong and the fix requires doing something in terminal. I grew up with Solaris so know enough *nix to be dangerous. At least with MacOS, the command line is available if that's your boat, but I'm of the view that the average user in 2019 shouldn't have to leave a GUI.

Having not used Windows for a while, I'm often not especially helpful when people (like my wife) reach out for technical support. No, really I don't know your wifi keeps dropping out. I'll have a stab based on previous conceits.

[Kim]

The command line side of OSX is deeply confusing.  It's BSD, but not as we know it.  Fortunately, unlike Ubuntu^[1], you rarely need to fettle the OS itself (other than to completely obliterate iTunes).  It's fine if you just want to use a command-line tool for something.

WiFi is the Devil's Radio in any operating system.  Or even on an embedded device without an operating system.



_{[1] Credit where it's due, Ubuntu made Linux on the desktop viable for mainstream users.  Unfortunately, their bleeding-edge approach - while necessary in the early days to make multimedia viable - means you end up with the Windows 10 problem of things randomly breaking (or, just as bad, substantial UI changes) due to updates.  As an old fart, I prefer Debian's more glacial approach to releases, where regular updates rarely do anything more than quietly fix security problems in the background.  This isn't without its own frustrations, but they're much more predictable ones.}

[ian]

Hmm, I had to resort to several apt-gets the last time I tried to update Ubuntu and then repository tinkerings for which really there should be no excuse.

I solved the wifi problem by plugging in a cable. I've no idea: her Mac and every other device in her office works fine and the AP is in the next room.

[TPMB12]

Ok, techies talking. I'll leave the room until you've finished! 

[pcolbeck]

Credit where it's due, Ubuntu made Linux on the desktop viable for mainstream users.  Unfortunately, their bleeding-edge approach - while necessary in the early days to make multimedia viable - means you end up with the Windows 10 problem of things randomly breaking (or, just as bad, substantial UI changes) due to updates.  As an old fart, I prefer Debian's more glacial approach to releases, where regular updates rarely do anything more than quietly fix security problems in the background.  This isn't without its own frustrations, but they're much more predictable ones.[/sub]

Stick with an Ubuntu LTS release instead of the 6 monthly releases.. Five years of updates that are nothing but bug fixes and security patches for the server version and three for the desktop. A new LTS release is provided every two years. That's up to date enough for me. If I wanted the shiney new stuff all the time I would use Arch which is a proper rolling release that continuously updates packages as upstream updates are available. Since I'm using Linux as my work machine (Windows in a VM) then I want stable not cutting edge.

[CommuteTooFar]

I would choose a laptop with a AMD Ryzen processor.  They generally have more cores than the equivalent Intel chip.

In recent years Intel has held the advantage in instructions per clock (IPC) and manufacturing technology.  For the past few years Intel has failed to improve their manufacturing technology. Their planned move to a 10nm process is still failing so Intel has not really made a better processor for several years.  AMD on the other hand has not stood still. It is launching the 3rd generation of Ryzen chips on a 7nm process.  At CES last week a demonstrated a emgineering sample Ryzen 5 3xxx 8-core processor outperforming Intel's best current 8-core i9 desktop chip in both speed and power consumption. So it looks like there are going to be a lot of very happy AMD fanbois in the second half of this year.



       

[SteveC]

At work people often have problems with emails on their iPhone. A real pain. I set my own android phone up for work emails. I have unlimited data so I find it easier to use. It might just be me but I cannot stop the iPhone downloading old work emails repeatedly. With my android phone I stopped it straight away. I went around the office asking apple user after apple user and they were stumped. I've asked on relevant forums and no joy. Ended up being told our it had to change the way they had the email system set up to b accommodate the work phone. I am not joking here. I have had issues with apple products and simply use my work phone as a simple dumb phone now. Anything smart I switch to android, personal phone.

I suspect the issue is that 'that's the way IOS works'. You're supposed to have all your emails accessible on every device. The idea of just getting the new stuff and not being able to look at 'old' stuff until you're on a 'proper computer' is just alien to the whole way macOS and IOS work together.
However, the real lesson I've learnt from this is that, which ever system you do use, you have to 'drink the cool aid' and go with the way it works. I've hit something at work recently where the new system we have to use doesn't allow the old workflow (which I've been using for over 20 years on paper and electronically). I still think the old work flow is better, but I'm now finding more out about how the new system is supposed to be used, and, you know what, it's not as rubbish as I first thought. I just have to approach things differently.  Still don't like it and would never use it at home, but I can now live with it.

[ian]

I think email works like that everywhere these days, which is admittedly a change from the olden days. I expect to see and interact with the same email and mailboxes on whatever device I'm using from my watch to my desktop, in whatever client I choose, be it local or web-based. That's one of the coolest things about modern technology, we're no longer tethered to the desktop.

[chrisbainbridge]

I think email works like that everywhere these days, which is admittedly a change from the olden days. I expect to see and interact with the same email and mailboxes on whatever device I'm using from my watch to my desktop, in whatever client I choose, be it local or web-based. That's one of the coolest things about modern technology, we're no longer tethered to the desktop.

I agree.  I have 3 different email accounts for different things and expect to be able to see them in a web browser, on my phone, my iMac, my win10 machine and my surface.  They just work and have done for about 10 years.

[TPMB12]

I set it up and it downloaded the most recent emails from my company email account. The number of emails I specified. Great. Then I read and deleted them from my work iPhone. I'm used to reviewing and replying to emails if needed then deleting from the phone if not important enough to reply on the phone. Usually replies made on the phone are really important otherwise it'll wait until I'm on my laptop. Serious as in critical. I don't have a job that insists on 24/7 responses unless in an exceptional case. So mostly my phone email is empty apart from a few emails received and sent.

With my latest iPhone it takes the deletion of the latest emails as an excuse to download random emails from my work email account. Now rightly or wrongly the company habit for old emails is to leave it in outlook and effectively use it for file storage. Not my choice but hey it's unofficial policy. This means there is 6 years of emails to download. I'd deleted several rounds of downloads before I realised what was happening. I stopped deleting for awhile.

I looked into it and figured it I deleted all the old emails as they downloaded. They I thought to look how many emails. That stopped that idea.

Right now I have to delete some emails to receive new emails. It only downloads a set number of emails. If there's already that number on the phone it won't even email new emails.

Anyway, I no longer use the iPhone as my work email I use my personal android phone. I can access old emails if I wanted to (rarely need to). I get new emails quickly and never had any issues.

AIUI the issue is the way our email is set up at work. It's an older system and it is known to have issues. It just has less with android. It annoys me to be beaten by the issue and also that I'm not benefiting from the apple reputation for the best user experience.

[TPMB12]

In my private life I read texts on my watch when the phone is in another room. I read emails look at Internet and even so some work on my phone. I can work at home, work or even in a tent on a campsite (we've had some pitches with electric hookup so we can work in the evening).

[Kim]

I set it up and it downloaded the most recent emails from my company email account. The number of emails I specified. Great. Then I read and deleted them from my work iPhone. I'm used to reviewing and replying to emails if needed then deleting from the phone if not important enough to reply on the phone. Usually replies made on the phone are really important otherwise it'll wait until I'm on my laptop. Serious as in critical. I don't have a job that insists on 24/7 responses unless in an exceptional case. So mostly my phone email is empty apart from a few emails received and sent.

With my latest iPhone it takes the deletion of the latest emails as an excuse to download random emails from my work email account. Now rightly or wrongly the company habit for old emails is to leave it in outlook and effectively use it for file storage. Not my choice but hey it's unofficial policy. This means there is 6 years of emails to download. I'd deleted several rounds of downloads before I realised what was happening. I stopped deleting for awhile.

I looked into it and figured it I deleted all the old emails as they downloaded. They I thought to look how many emails. That stopped that idea.

Right now I have to delete some emails to receive new emails. It only downloads a set number of emails. If there's already that number on the phone it won't even email new emails.

Anyway, I no longer use the iPhone as my work email I use my personal android phone. I can access old emails if I wanted to (rarely need to). I get new emails quickly and never had any issues.

AIUI the issue is the way our email is set up at work. It's an older system and it is known to have issues. It just has less with android. It annoys me to be beaten by the issue and also that I'm not benefiting from the apple reputation for the best user experience.

That sounds suspiciously like it's using POP3 (which was designed for temporarily holding mail for download to a single client, and works very badly if you access it from more than one place).  In which case you can't really blame the iThing for the failings of a protocol that was obsolete about 10 years before it was invented.  Pretty much everyone who keeps their mail on the server uses IMAP (or some proprietary Microsoft/Google thing), but you might find a third-party email client for IOS that plays better with the old POP3 leave-mail-on-the-server-and-only-download-the-unread-ones bodge.

[ian]

Yeah, it's 2019, forget about downloading email, just leave it on the server. If I recall, my iPhone syncs two weeks or so by default. If you want to prioritize it, use the flags, create a mailbox folder, or mark it unread.

It's a bit futile blaming Apple for implementing the system exactly as it should be implemented – and very smoothly.

[TPMB12]

The thing is my android plays well with the outdated email system. That's with the phone's proprietary email app and others I've used on it. If android works with it then why can't apple? Whether it should is another matter.

[ian]

The thing is my android plays well with the outdated email system. That's with the phone's proprietary email app and others I've used on it. If android works with it then why can't apple? Whether it should is another matter.

Apple's business model is based around simple, intuitive user experiences and features that for most users just work, which of course capitalizes on the benefits of the Apple-verse, with it's known hardware configurations. Once you start supporting edge-cases by default, then well, that's a very different proposition.

I'm sure Apple's standard mail clients does support POP3, but there always were a myriad of settings, and as Kim says it was obsolete 10 years before it was conceived, so I'm surprised anyone is still using it. If they are, they should stop.

[Greenbank]

It's just a tiny difference in features of the apps, but that difference annoys you.

The Apple app will download at most n messages at first. If you delete a load it will download the next older (previously unseen) ones so you've always got at least n messages.

It sounds like the Android app just doesn't bother going back and getting you more messages if you delete a bunch of messages on your phone.

Some people will prefer the Apple behaviour. Some people will prefer the Android app behaviour.

I'm sure Apple's standard mail clients does support POP3, but there always were a myriad of settings, and as Kim says it was obsolete 10 years before it was conceived, so I'm surprised anyone is still using it. If they are, they should stop.

It does support POP3, but there are scant options. Having just checked I'm quite surprised there isn't an option in the Apple mail app to put a limit on the number/age of older messages it will download in this scenario (you can only control the minimum number of messages it will try and hold, leading to the 'download old messages' behaviour seen).

Other mail apps exist for iPhone though, those will almost certainly be more configurable. As others have said, Apple designs its own things for the vast majority of users with an eye on simplicity.

But, as others have said, this is all an artefact of POP3 mail. IMAP is vastly superior and obviates the need for any of this nonsense and/or a billion and one configuration options.

[TPMB12]

Still looking at w10 laptop and there's a lot of i5 laptops with only 4gb of RAM. Now aiui i5 is start of decent processors in 8th gen but 4gb is a bit low RAM.

I've seen even better processor with only 4gb RAM. Isn't that a bit strange? I've even read one retailer's laptop buying guide that says 4gb basic for simple word processing but 8gb of you want to use spreadsheets and more demanding users. Also i5 is described as minimum for more demanding uses (so called "achieve" category in pcworld/Currys). So isn't that cross purposes with the hardware?

I know they used to put high RAM on poor processors too con the uninitiated looking at numbers only into getting a duff computer. But i5 is good and 4gb isn't. Not hiding the processor but under specing. What's going on? Is 4gb OK with i5 these days?

[Kim]

People buying computers don't understand the difference between memory and storage, so as long as you've got your 250GB (pronounced "gee-bees") on the box, you're sorted.  It's like fitting bikes with cheapo bottom brackets.