Author Topic: Base training  (Read 250268 times)

Re: Base training
« Reply #25 on: 30 September, 2015, 12:03:47 pm »

Of course I could be wrong, but my experience is that too much quality gets quick results and then leads to colds, overtraining and underperformance. Been there and got the t shirt.

Cheers

Mike

What would you recommend over winter, in terms of turbo sessions?  I'll be commuting to work (~10km a day, 4 days a week) and doing a 3 to 4 hour ride at low tempo / high endurance at the weekends.  I had planned on doing a sweet spot session (high tempo / low threshold) for an hour plus 2x20 at mid to high threshold and maybe some 20/40 sprint sessions.  Should I dial it back?

rob

Re: Base training
« Reply #26 on: 01 October, 2015, 09:35:40 am »

Of course I could be wrong, but my experience is that too much quality gets quick results and then leads to colds, overtraining and underperformance. Been there and got the t shirt.

Cheers

Mike

What would you recommend over winter, in terms of turbo sessions?  I'll be commuting to work (~10km a day, 4 days a week) and doing a 3 to 4 hour ride at low tempo / high endurance at the weekends.  I had planned on doing a sweet spot session (high tempo / low threshold) for an hour plus 2x20 at mid to high threshold and maybe some 20/40 sprint sessions.  Should I dial it back?

What are you training for ?

I'm targeting longer distance TTs and do something similar, but my commute is longer (2 * 13 miles).   I'll be doing 2 sweet spot sessions and a 2*20 at just over threshold session a week.   Personally, I wouldn't bother with the sprint sessions or any weights work.

Volume for the Winter will be 10hrs of commuting, 3-4hrs per week of turbo work and a 3-4hr low tempo ride on a Sunday.

Re: Base training
« Reply #27 on: 01 October, 2015, 11:23:43 am »

What are you training for ?


10 mile TTs starting in April, and generally just riding faster.  I would like to crack 30 km/h for 3 hours pace, rather than the 25 to 27 km/h I can do at the moment.

rob

Re: Base training
« Reply #28 on: 01 October, 2015, 11:32:43 am »

What are you training for ?


10 mile TTs starting in April, and generally just riding faster.  I would like to crack 30 km/h for 3 hours pace, rather than the 25 to 27 km/h I can do at the moment.

Not really an area I know as much about, but TT riders who focus on 10s and 25s tend do a lot of VO2 max work to 'pull threshold from above'.   Sprint session is probably OK and I've seen sessions like 30 * 30 (30s sec sprint:30sec rest for 30 reps) or 4/5 * 5mins @ VO2 max.   I probably couldn't get through a session like that but I do like a weekly 2*20 threshold session.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #29 on: 01 October, 2015, 11:40:37 am »
I was doing a variety of stuff before PBP and I did do some VO2max sessions. They're quite tough, but productive. I think you shouldn't be doing more than 1-2 sessions a week at that intensity, though.

Circuit training on Monday has really disrupted my training, I've not done any bike training since last Thursday now; I've been sore for days.


rob

Re: Base training
« Reply #30 on: 01 October, 2015, 12:33:29 pm »
Did a 200k for fun on Sunday.   Have spent the last couple of weeks servicing the TT bike and getting it set up on the turbo.   I did start to do core work again a few weeks ago.

I have just bought a GPS and have been monitoring how hard I work on my commute.   Seems that answer is not really hard enough.


Re: Base training
« Reply #31 on: 01 October, 2015, 12:40:36 pm »
It doesn't matter how hard you work on your commute, surely- it's not part of the programme.

rob

Re: Base training
« Reply #32 on: 01 October, 2015, 12:59:34 pm »
It doesn't matter how hard you work on your commute, surely- it's not part of the programme.

I had always had it down as zone 2 work, but it transpires I'm not even in zone 2 very much.   It's never been included as a proper training session, but I'm thinking of just pushing a little harder each way.    Of course on the days where I do 2hours tempo on the turbo and then ride in it'll be at a lower intensity.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #33 on: 01 October, 2015, 01:21:08 pm »
Outdoor rides tend to be less productive per hour than indoor rides but a 13 mile each way commute done at reasonable intensity still seems like significant volume.

rob

Re: Base training
« Reply #34 on: 01 October, 2015, 02:32:05 pm »
I made significant gains this year so am trying to do something similar this Winter but upping the volume and intensity, although there's a longer ramp as I need to peak later in 2016.

Re: Base training
« Reply #35 on: 01 October, 2015, 02:50:21 pm »
Commuting becomes a bit of Fartlek.

Trying to keep up with the traffic between junctions.

DO NOT, on a commute, try to get home in less time This leads to risk-taking and maybe hospitalisation or worse.


Oh, and question.
Is HIIT 'lactic acid' or 'Phosphocreatine'?

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Base training
« Reply #36 on: 01 October, 2015, 03:00:07 pm »
I figure that year-round riding is sufficient for me to enjoy 200/300s and to grit my teeth round 600+ brevets. More focused riding in Spring and Summer allows me to enjoy 1000/1200s, rather than just finish them.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

rob

Re: Base training
« Reply #37 on: 01 October, 2015, 03:10:17 pm »
I was told on the TT forum that HIIT was VO2max and above.   Threshold work doesn't qualify.
   

Re: Base training
« Reply #38 on: 01 October, 2015, 04:25:35 pm »
I wrote a long reply earlier, but it seems to have disappeared. Will have another go later....

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #39 on: 01 October, 2015, 04:26:29 pm »
My favourite VO2max workout that I've done is this one:

https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/1818-solomons

Last time I did it:

https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/2250154-Solomons

HIIT is often much shorter intervals than this, e.g. 30s or 60s. These are 3 and 2 minute intervals at 115% FTP and 130% FTP respectively. I found I could complete this one without reducing the target intensity.

Another, which is 12x3 minutes at 120% FTP, I could not complete at the full intensity.


Re: Base training
« Reply #40 on: 02 October, 2015, 08:13:06 am »
Yup. A 10s sprint at max speed on level ground.

Be sure though, you are fully warmed up for at least an hour at ‘evens’.

PS. The 10s sprint might be 300% FTP.

Re: Base training
« Reply #41 on: 02 October, 2015, 08:24:57 am »
Be sure though, you are fully warmed up for at least an hour at ‘evens’.

What if you can't ride an hour at 'evens' (not tried yet, even if I can, it wouldn't be a warmup!)  :facepalm:

<gets coat>

rob

Re: Base training
« Reply #42 on: 02 October, 2015, 08:44:01 am »
Now I've had a closer look at the data, my commute is more Zone 2 than I thought.   I may be subconsciously trying a little harder, but I reckon of the hour I each way I'm in zone 2 about 75% of the time.   I think this is a suitable base to work from and to build more intense sessions around it.   Won't be doing anything over Zone 4 though.

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

  • Miles eaten don't satisfy hunger
  • Chartered accountant in 5 different decades
    • CET Ride Reports and Blogs
Re: Base training
« Reply #43 on: 07 October, 2015, 02:30:49 pm »
I target the 4..6 or 5..7 rep ranges for the major muscle group lifts. I'm not sure it's ideal for endurance cycling to do such low rep ranges though.

When I was training with weights I tended to do 15x Supersets so 15 Squats, 15 Deadlifts repeat 3 times.  The weights were moderate compared with my maximum lift, but the focus was strength-endurance.  I've always found it difficult to directly correlate training to performance on the road, but my ability to put a steady power down up hill for a long period of time developed significantly when I had this sort of superset as part of my training regime.  I haven't done this sort of work for 3 or 4 years now and feel that my uphill time trialling ability is waning.  Though that might just be age combined with lack of desire to suffer.
Eddington Numbers 130 (imperial), 182 (metric) 571 (furlongs)  114 (nautical miles)

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #44 on: 07 October, 2015, 02:39:29 pm »
When I started doing squats, I happened to be riding up Mudgeley Hill in Wedmore a fair bit.

Beforehand, my PR on the strava segment for the short, steep start of the climb was 57s. After, I improved to 48s without really trying. Having noticed the improvement, next time I tried harder, but messed up because I'd not realised where the segment end was (it was longer than I'd thought). I did 49s. Then 36s. Then 37s, and finally 34s.

48s would have been around 550th out of 1500-odd.

34s is 18th.

Who knows whether the squats helped, but my feeling is they've improved my ability for these short bursts of power to get up short, sharp climbs on fixed. They've also made me heavier (as has the other weight training) so it may have reduced my ability on longer climbs.


EDIT: should be up to 17th - KOM was clearly in a car.  ::-)

rob

Re: Base training
« Reply #45 on: 08 October, 2015, 10:36:43 am »
I do feel I lose out uphill and into a headwind in TTs as I don't seem to have the power (torque ?) at low cadence.   I did reps of 4minute intervals with the resistance cranked on the turbo up last Winter, but they became my most hated session, so haven't planned any for this Winter.   I don't have weights or access to a gym.

I have put a bigger gear on the bike before putting it back on the turbo this Winter so I may be able to build lower rev power more in a more subtle way.

Re: Base training
« Reply #46 on: 08 October, 2015, 10:50:58 am »
I'm finding the hardest part of The Plan is the spinning.
Big-Ass gears at <60RPM a piece of proverbial (HRMax-ing) piss- but then I'm happier on 73" than 69" and can leg press much more than my not-insignificant bodyweight. Maintaining 90+RPM and keeping HR 80 or 85% just isn't happening. I reckon it's the lardy legs- you try strapping a 2kg weight on each thigh and see how long you can spin them at 100RPM, Mr Coach.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #47 on: 08 October, 2015, 11:10:36 am »
I had a deload week last week and should be doing Tempo intervals tonight. But the squats on Tuesday have made my quads very sore today, so I dunno.

Chris S

Re: Base training
« Reply #48 on: 08 October, 2015, 12:50:57 pm »
You guys aren't helping me get started, y'know...  :facepalm:

Re: Base training
« Reply #49 on: 08 October, 2015, 12:53:30 pm »
I do feel I lose out uphill and into a headwind in TTs as I don't seem to have the power (torque ?) at low cadence.   I did reps of 4minute intervals with the resistance cranked on the turbo up last Winter, but they became my most hated session, so haven't planned any for this Winter.   I don't have weights or access to a gym.

I have put a bigger gear on the bike before putting it back on the turbo this Winter so I may be able to build lower rev power more in a more subtle way.

Tip.

Lift your weight off the saddle but don't put any daylight between shorts and saddle. Start the foot movement at eight o'clock and pull the pedal round to five o'clock ( as seen from the RHS of bike ).
Consiously think about this movement, imagining you are rolling the foot around the B/B.
In trying to lift backside pressure off the saddle, an extra downward push will be be the result.

Use the hamstring and leg flexors. The glutes, quads and calfs will do their thing naturally.