Lithium AAs and the Vista HCx

[Kim]

However, having read an article in Arrivee which said to use the alkaline setting when using lithiums, duly did so and the HCX told me the batteries were dead after only a few hours use.

I have a vague recollection that some of the older eTrexes, or perhaps earlier firmware versions, only offered the option of 'NiMH' and 'Alkaline'.  In which case it makes sense to use the 'Alkaline' setting for lithiums.  I've seen this advice on GPS-related websites before, and get the distinct impression that it's given in the absence of a specific 'Lithium' setting.

FWIW, with the compass turned off (it's just a waste of power on a bike) and sensible use of backlight, my Vista HCx runs for bloody ages on decent NiMHs, and at least three bloody ages on lithiums.  In fact, I find the battery life on NiMHs is so good that I don't usually see much of an advantage to using lithiums in it (YMMV, of course, especially if your use pattern makes self-discharge an issue).  On the gripping hand, their light weight and extra-long shelf life makes lithiums my spare battery of choice.

[DaveJ]

Lithiums run for around 44 hours in my Vista HCx.    Thats based on riding 600's with new batteries, then leaving them in on other rides until they drop out, so part of it is night time with the backlight turned on.  At £1 each, they probably make more sense than rechargeables for me.  By the time you add up the cost of rechargeables and a charger (good though the BL700 is), you could buy a lot of Lithiums.  I use Lithiums for the longer rides anyway so that I'm not faffing around replacing batteries.

Dave

[andygates]

So for a light, short cycle-camping tour -- a bank holiday special -- a set of lithiums are all you need?  Schweet.

[Manotea]

The bottom line is that lithiums last about 2~3 times as long as NIMH for half the weight, so you can carry a spare set for no weight penalty, and be sure a new set will at least see you round a 400km. I've given up using NIMH in my Vista HCX.

[The Mechanic]

One thing to remember, when using lithium AAs, then the Vista tells you the batteries are low, it really means the batteries are dead.  Your machine will shut down in approx 30 seconds, should you not change the batteries Mr Phelps.  I guess it must be something to do with the sharp power drop off.

[Greenbank]

The bottom line is that lithiums last about 2~3 times as long as NIMH for half the weight, so you can carry a spare set for no weight penalty, and be sure a new set will at least see you round a 400km. I've given up using NIMH in my Vista HCX.

I'd do that apart from the cost.

A set of 2800mAh NIMH recharglables will easily last 24 hours and so I swap them for another pair when I'm at an appropriate stop (i.e. Dolgellau the second time on the BCM for example). On LEL I put a new pair of batteries in each day.

I carry a set of Lithiums to act as backup though, should I have a problem with the NIMH cells.

[Manotea]

I'd do that apart from the cost.

At £2 for ¬35hrs runtime? I've had times when NIMHs that have let me down sooner rather than later. Lithiums are more reliable and less hassle.

[simonp]

I'd do that apart from the cost.

At £2 for ¬35hrs runtime? I've had times when NIMHs that have let me down sooner rather than later. Lithiums are more reliable and less hassle.

At 500 charge cycles, assuming the lithiums last 2x as long, then you've spent £250 on lithiums vs about £3 on an nimh battery.

Of course it might be that you don't get 500 cycles but you will get many more than 6. As for fretting about the weight of carrying a few batteries... I have lost a stone since November how many batteries is that?

I do carry some lithiums as an emergency back up. I also use the same nimh cells in my back up rear light so in a pinch I've nicked the batteries from that.
 

[DaveJ]

If you were using the batteries every day, then maybe, but.....

Lithiums at £1 each.  NiMh at £5 for 4.  BL700 charger at £28.

If you only use the batteries in an HCx maybe 10 times a year, then lithiums are a much more attractive proposition than you suggest.  Probably under £10 a year, whereas on the NiMh you've spent £33.

Payback in excess of 3 years, and in my experience the chance of all the NiMh and the charger still working OK after that time.....

Dave 

[Manotea]

I only use lithiums in the gps and I only use the GPS on audax so cost isnt a factor. Reliability is. It makes sense to use NIMHs in lights though.

[frankly frankie]

Of course it might be that you don't get 500 cycles but you will get many more than 6.

It will probably be much nearer 6 than 500 though.  Realistically.

Cells get damaged, or simply become obsolete, long before their theoretical lifespan is up.

[simonp]

If you were using the batteries every day, then maybe, but.....

Lithiums at £1 each.  NiMh at £5 for 4.  BL700 charger at £28.

If you only use the batteries in an HCx maybe 10 times a year, then lithiums are a much more attractive proposition than you suggest.  Probably under £10 a year, whereas on the NiMh you've spent £33.

Payback in excess of 3 years, and in my experience the chance of all the NiMh and the charger still working OK after that time.....

Dave 

My charger's 4th birthday was yesterday.  GPS batteries for last 4 years of Audax would be £50 if lithium batteries were used (15100km at average of 18km/h, 35h run time).  Of course I get use of the charger for other stuff so the cost of the charger is spread across several applications; and I'm not using a steady stream of new batteries.

[Biggsy]

Although I find the cost of NiMh higher than is often claimed, it is still economical for heavy-use applications.

Lithium batteries are getting cheaper, though, so the gap is narrowing.

[Greenbank]

My charger's 4th birthday was yesterday.  GPS batteries for last 4 years of Audax would be £50 if lithium batteries were used (15100km at average of 18km/h, 35h run time).  Of course I get use of the charger for other stuff so the cost of the charger is spread across several applications; and I'm not using a steady stream of new batteries.

I'm glad someone was anal enough to answer this for me.

Like Simon, my charger is older than 3 years and cycling is a small use of rechargable batteries. There's a whole bunch of other stuff in the house that uses batteries (radios, digital cameras, mp3 players, remote controls, gadgets, torches, travel charger, etc) even a pepper grinder that takes 6 AAA batteries (it was a present).

Also, I *hate* the batteries running out whilst I'm in the middle of a ride. With Lithiums I can change the batteries early, but then I'm wasting expensive batteries. Part of this is because my GPS is ziptied on to stop it rattling in its mount.

With rechargables I know they'll last a 300 or a day's riding. There's no problem recharging them if I've only used 1/3 of the capacity on a blast around a summer 100. Longer rides I just change them at a convenient point before they die.

OK, there are the occasional duff batteries (or duff charges) but they're rare, and I carry backup batteries just like everyone else.

[frankly frankie]

Its true what you say - a problem with lithiums is that one very soon assembles a drawer-full of 'part used' cells.
Often they've been used in a light for 3 or 4 hours - so you wouldn't want to set off on another night ride without replacing them - but then they're often still good to run a GPS all day.

I have a drawer with currently 8 fresh Lithium AAs in, and about ... 20 part-used ones.  The part-used get used in GPS (unlike gb I find it only takes 15 seconds to change GPS bats on the road) and in remotes and other household stuff.  But I never manage to get rid of them all, they last too damn long!

It's even worse with CR123s. 

[rogerzilla]

My old lithiums go in my alarm clock.

[Martin]

I normally use 2800 NiMh's which are good for a 200 and then some; but want to have some spares if away from 240v ac;

is there much difference for a short term fix between Energizer Ultimate and Lithium? (apart from more than double the price)

[Chris N]

Ultimates don't last as long, but they're ok - I rode with my Etrex H on (inc backlight for a couple of hours in broad daylight ) for about 8 hours on just over half a set of Ultimates.

[frankly frankie]

The Lithiums are very superior on many counts.

Its rather unfortunate that Energizer's packaging makes the 'Ultimate' and 'Lithium' types look so similar.
Ultimate are very good, comparing like for like (ie versus Duracell etc) but not comparable with the lithiums.

[Biggsy]

Don't call the alkaline ones "Ultimate" because Energizer also use that name for their Lithiums!  As if it wasn't already confusing enough to use only slighly different shades of blue for the radically different types of batteries.

[Martin]

Don't call the alkaline ones "Ultimate" because Energizer also use that name for their Lithiums!  As if it wasn't already confusing enough to use only slighly different shades of blue for the radically different types of batteries.

I thought that; how can a battery be Ultimate if there is a better one?

also; can anybody come up with a plausible explanation why Li-Ion is not available in AA yet? is it that ordinary chargers will frazzle them (and your house)?

[Kim]

also; can anybody come up with a plausible explanation why Li-Ion is not available in AA yet? is it that ordinary chargers will frazzle them (and your house)?

3.7V nominal cell voltage?  It'll frazzle more than your house...

[Biggsy]

As well as the charging issue, I suppose they can't make Li-Ion cells 1.5V.

Actually, there is an obscure (not for normal public consumption) Li-Ion in AA size, but it's 3.7V.

[simonp]

You could just take another set of rechargables as spares. If you don't like self discharge then take hybrios.

[frankly frankie]

Don't call the alkaline ones "Ultimate" because Energizer also use that name for their Lithiums!

The alkies were there first!  Subsequently Energizer realised their mistake and rebranded their Lithiums as 'Ultimate' too.