Post by: alwyn on 07 August, 2018, 05:53:04 pm
Most of the controls are booked, with no changes to the northern half of the ride. There's a huge village hall about 3km from the current turn, but Christleton is a cute little village, and the hall is utterly charming, so it stays in place. The dual-hall setup at Lilleshall worked really well, so that stays in place too.
The big change from 2015 is that I've decided to make the route compulsory. I think this will work very well for this event. Those who know the history of WCW will know that it was originally a main-road bash that fell victim to those roads getting increasingly busy. The new route uses lanes, but this means twiddling alongside the main roads, slowly clocking up extra distance. Rather than litter the route with info controls, and running the event over-distance, I think it's far better to insist that nobody try and save a few km by attempting to cycle along the A41 (for example).
A mandatory route gives me a lot more control over the distance, so I should be able to get it close to 600km. It also means I can cut out the two sections I disliked near Kidderminster and Moreton in Marsh.
I've yet to settle on a control for the start. My original choice is a pig to route out of, so I'm scouting for others. Happily, Berkshire is groaning under the weight of pretty village halls, so I'm hopeful of a suitable replacement for the lovely hall I used in Old Windsor. As soon as I've got that booked, I'll publish.
As in 2015, the event will be full-service, with controls every 50-70km. It's a rolling route, much like PBP, so you'll be glad of the TLC.
Post by: alfapete on 07 August, 2018, 08:22:21 pm
Expecting fevered debate.
Post by: alwyn on 07 August, 2018, 10:14:54 pm
Post by: Wycombewheeler on 07 August, 2018, 10:20:31 pm
Hmmm, so how do you regulate the 'mandatory' side of things - surely a gpx track is the only way, or multiple secret controls? And this might exclude those who prefer a routesheet...I understand in other countries routes are mandatory and a single secret control is considered sufficient.
Expecting fevered debate.
Basically it relies on the good faith of the riders, it's not like there aren't ways to cheat on other events. Just remember the train ticket or petrol receipt is not a sensible proof of passage. ;)
Post by: alfapete on 08 August, 2018, 06:50:34 am
Multiple secret controls, replacing the 4 info controls. That won't affect the routesheet though, unless I'm missing something.:thumbsup:
When I mentioned routesheets I meant those without gps devices, but I'd misunderstood your intentions
Post by: αdαmsκι on 08 August, 2018, 07:19:11 am
A mandatory route sounds sensible. I ride in 2015 and went off piste a couple of times to cut down the distance a little bit, but obviously wouldn't do that if it's mandatory. Plus it'll be easier to make the route a lot closer to 600km than the 2015 version.
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 08 August, 2018, 12:53:45 pm
Post by: citoyen on 08 August, 2018, 01:32:51 pm
Hmmm, so how do you regulate the 'mandatory' side of things - surely a gpx track is the only way, or multiple secret controls? And this might exclude those who prefer a routesheet...
Expecting fevered debate.
If the alternative is the A41, surely it's pretty much self-regulating? Of course, there may be some riders who enjoy riding on busy trunk roads but that's certainly not my idea of fun.
As for 'fevered debate', I remember the discussion around the over-distance last time this event was run, which involved some strong opinions being aired, so if making it a mandatory route can cut out some of the excess kilometres, hopefully that will in fact reduce the temperature of the discussion.
I've done both of the last two editions and very much enjoyed it on both occasions. There is a lot to recommend this event and it sounds like it will be even better this time. Very tempted to come back for another go, but I've also got my eye on some other 600s for next season and will probably need to pick and choose my rides carefully.
Post by: whosatthewheel on 08 August, 2018, 02:11:49 pm
Hello, is there a scheduled date/month for this one yet? I missed it last time and suspect I will have to miss it this time! My local 600 and the one I've always had my eye on......
June 1st
Post by: Ivan on 08 August, 2018, 02:45:16 pm
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 08 August, 2018, 03:12:14 pm
Hello, is there a scheduled date/month for this one yet? I missed it last time and suspect I will have to miss it this time! My local 600 and the one I've always had my eye on......
June 1st
I thought it was an 'earlyish' one. I'm having a baby in Feb, don't think I can get myself 600k fit in 3 months ;D :facepalm:, I guess 2023 I'll pencil it in :)
Post by: whosatthewheel on 08 August, 2018, 03:23:26 pm
Hello, is there a scheduled date/month for this one yet? I missed it last time and suspect I will have to miss it this time! My local 600 and the one I've always had my eye on......
June 1st
I thought it was an 'earlyish' one. I'm having a baby in Feb, don't think I can get myself 600k fit in 3 months ;D :facepalm:, I guess 2023 I'll pencil it in :)
I think early june is as late as you want to organise it, for a credible PBP qualifier... any later and the DNS rate would be huge, as anyone who already qualified would not bother to show up...
It's sad that people sign up for multiple events only to qualify for PBP rather than for the event itself and then drop the unnecessary, but it's the way things are.
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 08 August, 2018, 03:33:53 pm
I just want to ride WCW! 2023 it is
Post by: whosatthewheel on 08 August, 2018, 03:48:13 pm
I have absolutely zero PBP wants or ambitions. I get that loads of people want them at that time though :)
I just want to ride WCW! 2023 it is
You can always enter and have a go... at no point en route you are too far from a train station.
Post by: simonp on 08 August, 2018, 03:55:19 pm
Post by: whosatthewheel on 08 August, 2018, 04:07:19 pm
I'm hoping to go for the earliest 600k available as I'll be trying to work around potentially trying to qualify for Henley Regatta as well. I suspect June will be too late for me, needs to be as early in May as possible.
There isn't much in the calendar ahead of BCM that I can't think of, so you might have to start looking for your cheque book... ;D
Post by: Charlie Polecat on 08 August, 2018, 04:42:31 pm
Quote
Basically it relies on the good faith of the riders
Surely that should be the essence of randonneuring?
Post by: simonp on 08 August, 2018, 05:08:22 pm
I'm hoping to go for the earliest 600k available as I'll be trying to work around potentially trying to qualify for Henley Regatta as well. I suspect June will be too late for me, needs to be as early in May as possible.
There isn't much in the calendar ahead of BCM that I can't think of, so you might have to start looking for your cheque book... ;D
Same as 2011 and 2015 then. But probably on gears this time.
Post by: Bobby on 08 August, 2018, 07:43:34 pm
The big change from 2015 is that I've decided to make the route compulsory. I think this will work very well for this event.
Good idea, sounds great!
Post by: alwyn on 10 August, 2018, 02:15:37 pm
I couldn't get my control of choice, alas, which would have reduced the route down to 608km. So it's 611km with about the same climbing as before. I suspect there will still be fords.
Post by: whosatthewheel on 10 August, 2018, 02:28:05 pm
Final control booked. The start will be in Bray.
Well done, The Fat Duck is always a good choice... it has gone down in the ratings over the past 10 years, but still good enough for an AUK control ;D
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 10 August, 2018, 03:20:48 pm
That car park by the village hall is free parking but it is small and often pretty full, I'm sure there's a workaround of course :)
I should be able to help at the start/finish Alwyn I would have thought :)
Post by: Ben T on 10 August, 2018, 08:36:06 pm
Final control booked. The start will be in Bray.
Well done, The Fat Duck is always a good choice... it has gone down in the ratings over the past 10 years, but still good enough for an AUK control ;D
;D I'll be ordering rice pudding :D
Post by: MikeH on 12 August, 2018, 11:42:50 am
The parish council allow parking for larger events on the village green, normally that's big weddings. Normally the gate to access with vehicles is locked. It costs something (not sure how much), and if it is too wet in the days leading up to your booking they will cancel. But it is an option.
Otherwise there is almost unlimited parking on Old Mill Lane / Monkey Island Lane - it's basically a very long road that goes nowhere with big houses on one side, and fields on the other. There are no restrictions on that road.
Post by: alwyn on 13 August, 2018, 03:04:10 pm
Post by: alwyn on 13 August, 2018, 03:08:51 pm
http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/19-461/
Post by: billyam998 on 13 August, 2018, 03:37:16 pm
Entries now open!
http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/19-461/
Oh my god!!! should I? well err - why not? Fords!!! Oh please!!!, I'll pack water wings and a towel this time, how mandatory is "mandatory"? I opted for the A41 road back from the turn to lilleshall last time and, it worked well from me - even if the garage at Whitchurch wouldn't do me a hot choc at silly o clock in the morning - traffic was light with only a few lorries.
Post by: citoyen on 13 August, 2018, 04:02:24 pm
Entries now open!
It's going to sell out before the end of August, isn't it?
Post by: Charlie Polecat on 13 August, 2018, 04:30:19 pm
My current plan is to ride Lejog in May, so this ride might be doable since it's not far from Heathrow. Any chance there might be room for one more - even if the event is sold out - for late comers from across the pond? :-*
Post by: MikeH on 13 August, 2018, 04:35:20 pm
Post by: alwyn on 13 August, 2018, 04:37:24 pm
how mandatory is "mandatory"?
Pretty mandatory I'm afraid. There will be two secret controls.
Post by: alwyn on 13 August, 2018, 04:41:14 pm
[/quote]
Possibly. The DNS in 2015 was huge, presumably because it was quite late in the qualifying period for PBP. It's quite early this time, so there might not be spaces. I tend to overbook too, so best to ask me nearer the time rather than just turning up.
Post by: Charlie Polecat on 13 August, 2018, 04:47:33 pm
Post by: Neil C on 13 August, 2018, 05:15:40 pm
I'm sure I deserve a new bike now!
Post by: BobScarle on 13 August, 2018, 05:36:24 pm
Post by: billyam998 on 13 August, 2018, 06:15:59 pm
how mandatory is "mandatory"?
Pretty mandatory I'm afraid. There will be two secret controls.
How dull, I don't really understand the reasoning but, there you go.
Post by: jiberjaber on 13 August, 2018, 06:23:02 pm
(on the plus side it probably avoids needing to ride 600km through the cabbage infested fens ;D )
Post by: phydaux on 13 August, 2018, 06:50:00 pm
(Although it clearly shows I entered the WCW.)
You may want to try and fix that.
Post by: JohnL on 13 August, 2018, 07:44:57 pm
It already has the ‘Enter soon as entries may close early if event is full.’Entries now open!
It's going to sell out before the end of August, isn't it?
Im guessing sold out by the weekend...
John
Post by: grams on 13 August, 2018, 08:11:23 pm
Post by: Wycombewheeler on 13 August, 2018, 09:02:17 pm
Really?how mandatory is "mandatory"?
Pretty mandatory I'm afraid. There will be two secret controls.
How dull, I don't really understand the reasoning but, there you go.
I thought it was quite obvious, so that those who do not want to ride on dual carriageways that are close to motorways in condition do not have to ride significantly overdistance, or deal with a host of information controls.
Post by: alwyn on 13 August, 2018, 09:38:32 pm
I paid by PayPal, and I got a confirmation email from PayPal. The subject line of the confirmation email was, "Receipt for Your Payment to London Edinburgh London 2017"!
(Although it clearly shows I entered the WCW.)
You may want to try and fix that.
Your payment is indeed to LEL2017, the organiser of this event. WCW has been a LEL event since its resurrection.
Post by: phydaux on 13 August, 2018, 10:17:35 pm
I paid by PayPal, and I got a confirmation email from PayPal. The subject line of the confirmation email was, "Receipt for Your Payment to London Edinburgh London 2017"!
(Although it clearly shows I entered the WCW.)
You may want to try and fix that.
Your payment is indeed to LEL2017, the organiser of this event. WCW has been a LEL event since its resurrection.
Sorry.
I didn't realize that, and assumed this was an oversight.
Post by: marlan on 13 August, 2018, 10:23:00 pm
how mandatory is "mandatory"?
Pretty mandatory I'm afraid. There will be two secret controls.
How dull, I don't really understand the reasoning but, there you go.
I think it’s quite exciting having a secret control, hopefully I won’t ride past it without noticing it!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: billyam998 on 13 August, 2018, 10:23:49 pm
Well I managed it last time without incident, thank you, no need for this @alwyn, please reconsider.Really?how mandatory is "mandatory"?
Pretty mandatory I'm afraid. There will be two secret controls.
How dull, I don't really understand the reasoning but, there you go.
I thought it was quite obvious, so that those who do not want to ride on dual carriageways that are close to motorways in condition do not have to ride significantly overdistance, or deal with a host of information controls.
Post by: Charlie Polecat on 13 August, 2018, 10:24:40 pm
Quote
. WCW has been a LEL event since its resurrection
So, an LEL qualifier? 8)
Post by: Charlie Polecat on 13 August, 2018, 10:26:38 pm
Quote
hopefully I won’t ride past it without noticing it!
Well, I think it's supposed to be a secret. :-X
Post by: jsabine on 13 August, 2018, 10:29:42 pm
Well I managed it last time without incident, thank you, no need for this @alwyn, please reconsider.Really?how mandatory is "mandatory"?
Pretty mandatory I'm afraid. There will be two secret controls.
How dull, I don't really understand the reasoning but, there you go.
I thought it was quite obvious, so that those who do not want to ride on dual carriageways that are close to motorways in condition do not have to ride significantly overdistance, or deal with a host of information controls.
alwyn's pointed out above that the route is 611km, which is already overdistance. If it weren't mandatory route, the minimum distance between controls would have to be more than 600km, which I imagine would mean moving several of them, and ensuring that the advisory route was even more overdistance.
I suspect that the chances of him reconsidering are approaching nil.
Post by: jsabine on 13 August, 2018, 10:30:58 pm
I paid by PayPal, and I got a confirmation email from PayPal. The subject line of the confirmation email was, "Receipt for Your Payment to London Edinburgh London 2017"!
(Although it clearly shows I entered the WCW.)
You may want to try and fix that.
Your payment is indeed to LEL2017, the organiser of this event. WCW has been a LEL event since its resurrection.
The AUKweb event page says the organiser is LEL2013 ...
</pedant>
Post by: JohnL on 13 August, 2018, 10:32:24 pm
That’s generic text that replaced the “entries should be received two weeks before” message. I don’t think it relates at all to availability of places.
Oh yeah.
That’s a relief, I thought it was something it switched too when a certain percentage remained. Why was it changed though? That is a bit confusing. Well, it is to me...
John
Post by: billyam998 on 14 August, 2018, 07:04:48 am
Quote
I suspect that the chances of him reconsidering are approaching nil.
I sadly agree but, thought I would ask. As for the over distance bit, is 10-20k really that significant?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 14 August, 2018, 07:25:37 am
Post by: JohnL on 14 August, 2018, 08:44:55 am
QuoteI suspect that the chances of him reconsidering are approaching nil.
I sadly agree but, thought I would ask. As for the over distance bit, is 10-20k really that significant?
I’m a little confused. Why are you so keen to ride on these dual carriageways? If a mandatory route uses nice roads and keeps the distance closer to 600, what’s the problem?
John
Post by: citoyen on 14 August, 2018, 08:49:04 am
is 10-20k really that significant?
By my records, it was 24km over last time, which is the best part of two hours riding for slower riders. And it's a BRM so there's no time allowance for over-distance, so yes, as LWaB says, it really is significant for those at the tail end who are cutting it fine to make it inside the time limit.
Post by: billyam998 on 14 August, 2018, 12:09:51 pm
QuoteI suspect that the chances of him reconsidering are approaching nil.
I sadly agree but, thought I would ask. As for the over distance bit, is 10-20k really that significant?
I’m a little confused. Why are you so keen to ride on these dual carriageways? If a mandatory route uses nice roads and keeps the distance closer to 600, what’s the problem?
John
John, I don't know why you are either confused or, get the impression I am keen to ride on dual carriageway?? FWIW, I didn't ride a single dual carriageway last time but, my return route was much simpler and, flatter than the one given, I even had the opportunity to stop at a 24hour service station in Whitchurch. Riding on dark narrow lanes is equally, if not more dangerous than being on a A road. I am not the fastest of riders and, over distance can be a pain at times but, it would seem to be overly harsh and, removing one of the elements of audax (using your initiative) to make the route compulsory.
Post by: αdαmsκι on 14 August, 2018, 12:19:58 pm
@billyam998: If you're unhappy with a mandatory route then perhaps you should find another 600. Alwyn is perfectly entitled to opt for a mandatory route, and it ain't going to change.
Post by: billyam998 on 14 August, 2018, 12:33:52 pm
I found LEL 2013 & 2017 bloody brilliant, as was WCW in 2015. Unsurprisingly, therefore, I've entered this as well.
@billyam998: If you're unhappy with a mandatory route then perhaps you should find another 600. Alwyn is perfectly entitled to opt for a mandatory route, and it ain't going to change.
Hello Adam, yes I agree, all 3 events were superb and, massively enjoyable - even with a mid ride paddle on the wcw. I've entered, I'll give it a go, see you out there.
Post by: whosatthewheel on 14 August, 2018, 12:56:18 pm
I am not the fastest of riders
So what's that Veloviewer thing about KOMs and podiums all about? ::-)
Post by: Hot Flatus on 14 August, 2018, 02:23:27 pm
Post by: Greenbank on 14 August, 2018, 03:17:05 pm
I wonder if my £40 kryptonite lock is still locked outside the Old Windsor Library from last time? If we move the start I might never find out :(
I had two D-locks chained to a fence in Cambridge to aid my DIY 200 (where I'd stop half way to watch CUFC play football). I left them there for a good 5 years (using them a few times a year) until I eventually reclaimed them (all working fine).
https://goo.gl/maps/jY1aCQdFouP2
Post by: billyam998 on 14 August, 2018, 03:42:16 pm
...and the boasts in other posts about beating younger riders ::-)
Really? Boasts?? well, whatever, maybe I was yanking someones chain, as for the KOM etc, comedy value, set on road / segment no longer available :)
Post by: BobScarle on 14 August, 2018, 04:03:13 pm
Post by: alwyn on 14 August, 2018, 04:29:51 pm
Ok, bullet. Consider yourself bitten. I seem to have entered. Now all I have to do is get fit.
You and quite a few others. At this rate the event will sell out by Friday, never mind the end of August.
Post by: Bunker22 on 14 August, 2018, 10:54:09 pm
Ok, bullet. Consider yourself bitten. I seem to have entered. Now all I have to do is get fit.
You and quite a few others. At this rate the event will sell out by Friday, never mind the end of August.
Hi Danial,
What is the email to contact you on to volunteer (I can't remember if I have contacted you for WCW or not (for Broadwell if possible).
thx
Post by: marcusjb on 15 August, 2018, 06:58:15 am
Hello, is there a scheduled date/month for this one yet? I missed it last time and suspect I will have to miss it this time! My local 600 and the one I've always had my eye on......
June 1st
I thought it was an 'earlyish' one. I'm having a baby in Feb, don't think I can get myself 600k fit in 3 months ;D :facepalm:, I guess 2023 I'll pencil it in :)
Congrats LC and hope all is well!
Despite the life change that means I will live closer to C than W by the time this ride happens, i’m up for this. Lovely route, quite punchy but fast. Should be a great qualifier for the French ride.
Post by: alwyn on 15 August, 2018, 07:37:50 am
Lovely route, quite punchy but fast. Should be a great qualifier for the French ride.
The terrain on this route is inadvertently pretty good training for the big one. It rolls along quite nicely; never flat and with the odd hill to make you struggle a little. The climbing ratio is about 1%, so similar to PBP too.
Post by: alwyn on 15 August, 2018, 07:38:48 am
What is the email to contact you on to volunteer (I can't remember if I have contacted you for WCW or not (for Broadwell if possible).
If you send an email to 2017@londonedinburghlondon.com I'll get right back to you. Cheers!
Post by: AK on 15 August, 2018, 11:28:10 am
Post by: Ivan on 15 August, 2018, 01:15:30 pm
Post by: kegere on 15 August, 2018, 01:54:54 pm
Post by: Wycombewheeler on 15 August, 2018, 09:22:58 pm
Hmmm
Post by: alwyn on 15 August, 2018, 09:45:01 pm
The parish council allow parking for larger events on the village green, normally that's big weddings. Normally the gate to access with vehicles is locked. It costs something (not sure how much), and if it is too wet in the days leading up to your booking they will cancel. But it is an option.
I'm going to go and look at the field this weekend. If they're happy to book it, I'll do so and pass the cost on to people who want it. I'm also likely to block riders from using the neighbouring car park as I don't think it would be very neighbourly to rob Bray of one its car parks all weekend. As you say, there's always Monkey Island for those that want a free option.
Post by: jakemcree on 21 August, 2018, 07:49:34 am
Post by: alwyn on 21 August, 2018, 08:13:48 am
I’m likely to scale down the supporting 200 and 100 in order to make more space and volunteer energy for the 600. This will allow me to squeeze a few riders into the 600 if necessary.
Post by: jakemcree on 26 August, 2018, 12:19:48 pm
Post by: maffyoube on 28 August, 2018, 08:18:01 am
Post by: hippy on 28 August, 2018, 11:49:17 am
Currently thinking I'll try and do 4x600s as qualifiers but might not PBP if it conflicts with hippycrack aka TCR.
Post by: alwyn on 28 August, 2018, 10:11:28 pm
This might mean NO FORDS this time, but I can't quite remember where they sat on the old route so I'm not yet sure. There is, however, a honking great new ford right by the new control at Broadwell. You'd be mad to try and ride through it, but no doubt* some fool will.
*hopefully
Post by: Smeth on 28 August, 2018, 10:24:36 pm
There is, however, a honking great new ford right by the new control at Broadwell. You'd be mad to try and ride through it, but no doubt* some fool will.
*hopefully
I've volunteered to help GPS there. I'll launder the dog's towels. Boil wash.
Sent from my SM-J510FN using Tapatalk
Post by: GPS on 29 August, 2018, 08:19:46 am
There is, however, a honking great new ford right by the new control at Broadwell. You'd be mad to try and ride through it, but no doubt* some fool will.
*hopefully
I've volunteered to help GPS there. I'll launder the dog's towels. Boil wash.
Sent from my SM-J510FN using Tapatalk
Might be worth dusting off the web cam ... I'd hate to miss any of the action ;D
Post by: Phil W on 29 August, 2018, 09:55:47 am
This might mean NO FORDS this time, but I can't quite remember where they sat on the old route so I'm not yet sure. There is, however, a honking great new ford right by the new control at Broadwell. You'd be mad to try and ride through it, but no doubt* some fool will.
*hopefully
The fords sit between Stock Green and Broughton Green on the old route.
Post by: hippy on 29 August, 2018, 09:57:30 am
What are the alt routes for these? Or is it hike-a-bike?
Post by: alwyn on 29 August, 2018, 12:58:54 pm
The fords sit between Stock Green and Broughton Green on the old route.
What are the alt routes for these? Or is it hike-a-bike?
Happily, this means that both 2015 fords are now gone. The ford at Broadwell has a path to the side. So did the other two, but it didn't stop folk having a go.
Post by: JohnL on 29 August, 2018, 07:46:21 pm
I’m hoping by then I’ll be up to that distance on the trike. If I am: point me at these fords, I’m going in!!!
John
Post by: Greenbank on 29 August, 2018, 11:26:42 pm
alt routes
Mandatory route.
Post by: hippy on 29 August, 2018, 11:44:01 pm
alt routesMandatory route.
I meant a bridge or something, not another road.
Post by: alwyn on 30 August, 2018, 06:17:00 am
Post by: Ella on 31 August, 2018, 11:53:33 am
Post by: whosatthewheel on 31 August, 2018, 11:56:33 am
Just entered. Got a hatchet to bury.
If you find yourself in Bury, you've gone too far north... ;D
Post by: L CC on 31 August, 2018, 01:21:18 pm
Just entered. Got a hatchet to bury.
If you find yourself in Bury, you've gone too far north... ;D
Unless you're in Bury St Edmunds. Then you're really in trouble.
Post by: alwyn on 04 September, 2018, 06:20:35 am
There is a much better control point a few kilometres away. There is a pretty direct "road" that would add 2km to the total distance. However it looks like it might be in too poor a condition to use, in which case the extra distance becomes 4km.
I'll do another recce soonish, but any thoughts on distance vs facilities are more than welcome.
Post by: alwyn on 04 September, 2018, 06:23:19 am
Post by: wilkyboy on 04 September, 2018, 07:17:06 am
It's so unlike me to enter an event that's still nine months away ::-)
Post by: JBB on 04 September, 2018, 09:21:37 am
I've recently route checked the first/final 100km, which has thrown up an interesting problem. The control I have booked at Appleford is tiny! It would be fine later along the route, but for 200 riders just 50km from the start (albeit in waves of 100) it could be a bit of squeeze. Getting to the control also involves a slightly tedious 70m of gravel car park and a footpath next to a children's play area. All of this is manageable but it is far, far from ideal.
There is a much better control point a few kilometres away. There is a pretty direct "road" that would add 2km to the total distance. However it looks like it might be in too poor a condition to use, in which case the extra distance becomes 4km.
I'll do another recce soonish, but any thoughts on distance vs facilities are more than welcome.
I'm not sure how much you need at 50k, surely for most it will be stamp and go, not much TLC needed this close to the start. Your main log jam is potentially a queue to get your card stamped.
Post by: Bunker22 on 04 September, 2018, 09:25:36 am
I've recently route checked the first/final 100km, which has thrown up an interesting problem. The control I have booked at Appleford is tiny! It would be fine later along the route, but for 200 riders just 50km from the start (albeit in waves of 100) it could be a bit of squeeze. Getting to the control also involves a slightly tedious 70m of gravel car park and a footpath next to a children's play area. All of this is manageable but it is far, far from ideal.
There is a much better control point a few kilometres away. There is a pretty direct "road" that would add 2km to the total distance. However it looks like it might be in too poor a condition to use, in which case the extra distance becomes 4km.
I'll do another recce soonish, but any thoughts on distance vs facilities are more than welcome.
I'm not sure how much you need at 50k, surely for most it will be stamp and go, not much TLC needed this close to the start. Your main log jam is potentially a queue to get your card stamped.
A stamp, grab a roll and go option, just outside the hall would be sensible. With more refined options available inside.
Post by: hippy on 04 September, 2018, 09:55:49 am
#nothelpful
Post by: whosatthewheel on 04 September, 2018, 10:26:46 am
No 3-course meal?! No cheese board? There'll still be a sommelier though, right?
#nothelpful
That's the plan at Hartlebury, if I am in charge of the kitchen... choice of red or white, starter, main and dessert with passito wine to go with it...
For main I am thinking of a venison Wellington... in the wrapping pancake I was planning to infuse some black truffles, as well as the customary filling of wild mushrooms. Pastry will be done from scratch of course, as I suppose is the case in all AUk events...
Mind you, the budget might only allow for beans on toast... ;D
Post by: alwyn on 04 September, 2018, 10:35:02 am
That's the plan at Hartlebury, if I am in charge of the kitchen... choice of red or white, starter, main and dessert with passito wine to go with it...
For main I am thinking of a venison Wellington... in the wrapping pancake I was planning to infuse some black truffles, as well as the customary filling of wild mushrooms. Pastry will be done from scratch of course, as I suppose is the case in all AUk events...
Mind you, the budget might only allow for beans on toast... ;D
You joke, but the controller there has very high standards.
BTW I'm not sure who you are. Could you send me a PM so I can add you to the volunteer list?
Post by: whosatthewheel on 04 September, 2018, 10:51:49 am
BTW I'm not sure who you are. Could you send me a PM so I can add you to the volunteer list?
Yes, we have already agreed, I'm on the list...
Post by: mattc on 04 September, 2018, 03:59:40 pm
I'd ditto that. You could do almost everything outside - if crap weather, move to the leeward side. Indoors would just be toilets and somewhere for helpers to shelter.I've recently route checked the first/final 100km, which has thrown up an interesting problem. The control I have booked at Appleford is tiny! It would be fine later along the route, but for 200 riders just 50km from the start (albeit in waves of 100) it could be a bit of squeeze. Getting to the control also involves a slightly tedious 70m of gravel car park and a footpath next to a children's play area. All of this is manageable but it is far, far from ideal.
There is a much better control point a few kilometres away. There is a pretty direct "road" that would add 2km to the total distance. However it looks like it might be in too poor a condition to use, in which case the extra distance becomes 4km.
I'll do another recce soonish, but any thoughts on distance vs facilities are more than welcome.
I'm not sure how much you need at 50k, surely for most it will be stamp and go, not much TLC needed this close to the start. Your main log jam is potentially a queue to get your card stamped.
A stamp, grab a roll and go option, just outside the hall would be sensible. With more refined options available inside.
Matty (speaking from rider/helper experience !)
p.s. I live less than 2 miles from that hall (which I'd never noticed, although I think I know the playground you mean), let me know if you are desperate for any local intell or assistance!
Post by: αdαmsκι on 04 September, 2018, 05:15:01 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGRR6EZWgAANJXP.jpg)
I'll do another recce soonish, but any thoughts on distance vs facilities are more than welcome.
Your issue with the small-ish control is only going to be on Saturday as everyone will pretty spread out by the time they're heading back on Sunday. As this is only 50 km into the ride I would guess a number of folk would looking to push on pretty quickly and therefore a well organised control with food to grab should allow people to move quickly through the checkpoint. Hopefully that would prevent the the control turning into a bottleneck, but with the possibility of a more leisurely stop for those what would prefer that option.
According to my gpx tracklog I spent less than six minutes at the first control (Chalgrove) on the way north in 2015.
The 70 m of gravel to get to the control is a minor issue - I'd rather that than bonus distance.
Post by: alwyn on 16 September, 2018, 01:10:50 pm
Post by: Bobby on 16 September, 2018, 05:12:04 pm
Post by: Wycombewheeler on 17 September, 2018, 09:28:58 am
There are only seven places left on next year's Windsor Chester Windsor, folks.Full now.
Post by: Mr Green on 17 September, 2018, 09:08:05 pm
There are only seven places left on next year's Windsor Chester Windsor, folks.
Damn it's full - I should have signed up earlier. Is there any chance of getting on a waiting list?
Post by: alwyn on 17 September, 2018, 09:20:47 pm
http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/19-65/
Post by: citoyen on 18 September, 2018, 08:56:49 am
Why not try this instead? It looks superb.
http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/19-65/
Don't tell everyone - that's the one I've got earmarked for my 600 qualifier (aiming for something different, having done the last two WCWs). Not open for entries yet, but I have a hunch it will fill up fast when it does.
Post by: alwyn on 05 February, 2019, 08:43:49 pm
You'll be able to start at either 06:00 or 07:30. If you don't select a time, we'll pick one for you.
If you don't get the email in the next day or two, check your spam or subscriptions folders. If it's not there, send me a message.
Post by: Phil W on 06 February, 2019, 02:40:35 pm
Post by: The Solo Socialist on 06 February, 2019, 05:39:53 pm
Looking forward to it though...
Post by: alwyn on 06 February, 2019, 06:04:36 pm
Gone for 07:30am; should allow me to sleep the night before at home before driving round. How is parking at the start?
Tight. There is plenty of street parking on Monkey Island Lane, but none attached to the hall. There is a free car park nearby. Half of me is minded to be community-spirited and ask riders not to block it for the whole weekend. However the parish council were so snotty with me when I approached them, I'm also half-inclined to fill my boots.
Post by: Tull924 on 06 February, 2019, 06:14:04 pm
Post by: alwyn on 06 February, 2019, 06:47:08 pm
https://www.thefatduck.co.uk/
Post by: Planet X Paul on 06 February, 2019, 09:19:22 pm
Post by: jsabine on 07 February, 2019, 01:20:24 am
That would probably be a better option for me than getting up for the journey over from SE London in the morning - I'm too tight to pay for a hotel - but I don't think you've even hinted that you might be allowing it.
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 07 February, 2019, 07:44:32 pm
All the usual stuff in Maidenhead town centre, pizza express, Pizza Hut, some independent Italians, couple of excellent places for curry (vivasa and emperor of India- the latter is on the bray side but more expensive) Toby carvery if that’s your thing
Windsor obviously very touristy so restaurants everywhere. Nice Greek and Moroccan places plus most chains you’d expect
Post by: Tull924 on 07 February, 2019, 10:54:44 pm
This place is just over the road.
https://www.thefatduck.co.uk/
£325 pp!!!!
Post by: hellymedic on 07 February, 2019, 11:00:59 pm
This place is just over the road.
https://www.thefatduck.co.uk/
£325 pp!!!!
I'm sure alwyn knows the nature of the place.
yacf has been accused of lacking humour elsewhere on this board...
Post by: alwyn on 07 February, 2019, 11:01:38 pm
alwyn, will it be possible to sleep in the hall the night before the start?
I'm not sure yet. It partly depends if I get enough volunteers to help at the start. I also want to make sure the hall is happy with this now the parish council have got wind of the event.
Post by: whosatthewheel on 08 February, 2019, 07:36:17 am
This place is just over the road.
https://www.thefatduck.co.uk/
£325 pp!!!!
Used to be less when it was the "best restaurant in the world"... a metaphor of our society... things get pricier as they get worse
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 08 February, 2019, 07:53:24 am
The Crown opposite the hall does very good pies (again not overly cheap tho)
Post by: jiberjaber on 08 February, 2019, 10:48:53 am
I'd be interested in route suggestions from That London for Friday afternoon, perhaps closer to the time...
Post by: marlan on 08 February, 2019, 02:08:37 pm
Just need to decide my start time now
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Post by: alwyn on 12 March, 2019, 07:00:37 pm
To select your time, click on the link in the email I have sent you today. Note that only those people who have not selected a start time received the email.
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 29 March, 2019, 11:56:47 am
If this is on I can offer lifts there but not back.
Post by: The Solo Socialist on 17 April, 2019, 03:21:00 pm
Post by: Phil W on 17 April, 2019, 03:31:35 pm
Post by: S2L on 17 April, 2019, 04:38:44 pm
Got route GPX yeh, thanks Danial, only question now is do I cancel my B & B and gamble on space in hall ??????
You could become Fixedwheel@79" and be sure of a space in the hall, maybe?
For reference, Campenaerts used a 114 inch gear yesterday... :thumbsup:
Post by: The Solo Socialist on 17 April, 2019, 05:15:05 pm
I take your point re possible updates though.......
Post by: alwyn on 17 April, 2019, 05:25:13 pm
Bit early for a GPx isn't it? Would have thought there will still be route checks to be done nearer the event time.
It's a link to my dropbox files. I've ridden all of the tracks in the last year and the routesheet is 40% final checked. What is there is good enough for riders who want to explore the route. I expect any updates to be minor and I'll keep chipping away at these, updating the files. Once I'm finished I'll let everyone know .
Post by: Phil W on 17 April, 2019, 06:17:45 pm
Phil W email does say GPX may be updated, however as a guide!!!!
I take your point re possible updates though.......
Ah ok I hadn't received Danial's email at the time I replied. I thought you had been requesting it, rather than the current version had been made available to all entrants.
Post by: Phil W on 18 April, 2019, 01:23:23 pm
Post by: The Solo Socialist on 18 April, 2019, 01:35:26 pm
Got route GPX yeh, thanks Danial, only question now is do I cancel my B & B and gamble on space in hall ??????
You could become Fixedwheel@79" and be sure of a space in the hall, maybe?
Hi S2L 70 refers to my age, rather than size gearing I use...
For reference, Campenaerts used a 114 inch gear yesterday... :thumbsup:
Post by: JulesP on 08 May, 2019, 03:28:50 pm
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 09 May, 2019, 07:52:18 am
Thank you
Post by: john jackson on 09 May, 2019, 08:46:32 am
I may have missed a communication about this (or perhaps I'm just being premature), but is there any info yet about the overnight control..?Last time there was a hall about 2km South of the Lilleshall control. Air beds and blankets in the main hall and cereals were available in the kitchen.
Post by: marlan on 09 May, 2019, 01:48:34 pm
I may have missed a communication about this (or perhaps I'm just being premature), but is there any info yet about the overnight control..?Last time there was a hall about 2km South of the Lilleshall control. Air beds and blankets in the main hall and cereals were available in the kitchen.
It states here main night control is Lilleshall
http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/19-461/
But which control will be showing the Champions League Final?!
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Post by: S2L on 09 May, 2019, 02:23:44 pm
I may have missed a communication about this (or perhaps I'm just being premature), but is there any info yet about the overnight control..?Last time there was a hall about 2km South of the Lilleshall control. Air beds and blankets in the main hall and cereals were available in the kitchen.
It states here main night control is Lilleshall
http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/19-461/
But which control will be showing the Champions League Final?!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hartlebury, but you won't make it on time... ;D ;D ;D
Post by: john jackson on 09 May, 2019, 03:33:32 pm
I may have missed a communication about this (or perhaps I'm just being premature), but is there any info yet about the overnight control..?Last time there was a hall about 2km South of the Lilleshall control. Air beds and blankets in the main hall and cereals were available in the kitchen.
It states here main night control is Lilleshall
http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/19-461/
But which control will be showing the Champions League Final?!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The main control is Lilleshall Hall, this is where your card will be stamped and food served.
An additional hall for sleeping is a few km past the control at Sherriffhales. The hall will have airbeds and a wake up service and a very limited breakfast.
Post by: tomj on 09 May, 2019, 04:05:19 pm
Post by: john jackson on 09 May, 2019, 06:49:47 pm
Post by: alwyn on 18 May, 2019, 07:27:25 pm
Post by: markgoldstein on 20 May, 2019, 01:51:37 pm
"plus beds and blankets at overnight controls and a free bag drop to the main overnight control in Lilleshall."
So there's actually only one overnight control for sleeping, with beds and blankets, which is at Sherriffhales? And it's first come, first served - if so, how many places?
What about the bag drop option - do you have to pick it up at Lilleshall, even if you're sleeping at Sherriffhales (then return it to Lilleshall)?
Just trying to sort out the logistics!
Post by: αdαmsκι on 20 May, 2019, 06:12:02 pm
What about the bag drop option - do you have to pick it up at Lilleshall, even if you're sleeping at Sherriffhales (then return it to Lilleshall)?
Don't worry; the bag drop has been cancelled (check your email) so you will have all your kit with you :thumbsup:
Post by: markgoldstein on 20 May, 2019, 06:18:14 pm
What's the capacity for Sherriffhales?
Post by: postie on 20 May, 2019, 09:08:36 pm
Bag drop , didnt even there was going to be one. No lost to me :smug:
Post by: αdαmsκι on 20 May, 2019, 09:15:47 pm
Post by: Exit Stage Left on 20 May, 2019, 09:26:02 pm
https://youtu.be/v2lmbVg4gMI
Post by: Smeth on 20 May, 2019, 09:43:13 pm
I'm injured and sadly out of qualifying now but pleased to be helping at Broadwell control with others. See you out, and back.
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Post by: markgoldstein on 20 May, 2019, 09:52:59 pm
"The main sleep stop is indeed in Sherriffhales/Lilleshall. It will be first come first served and I hope to have about 100 beds there for about 160 riders."
Post by: αdαmsκι on 20 May, 2019, 09:55:20 pm
I wonder if it will be like 2015.
https://youtu.be/v2lmbVg4gMI
No; I'll be on gears.
Post by: marcusjb on 20 May, 2019, 10:22:16 pm
I wonder if it will be like 2015.
https://youtu.be/v2lmbVg4gMI
No; I'll be on gears.
Me too!
Post by: Exit Stage Left on 20 May, 2019, 10:25:52 pm
I wonder if it will be like 2015.
https://youtu.be/v2lmbVg4gMI
No; I'll be on gears.
You might have time for one of the red, and one of the white.
Post by: wilkyboy on 20 May, 2019, 10:52:19 pm
No; I'll be on gears.
Me too!
Err ... will I be making a silly mistake here? Or are you both on gears simply because? ???
Post by: αdαmsκι on 20 May, 2019, 11:08:53 pm
However I've hardly riden my fixed since LEL. Last year I did the ALPI 4000 which wasn't fixed friendly and so I spent the spring riding the geared bike in preparation. This year PBP will be on gears because I'm doing the 80 hour start and don't fancy getting dropped from groups for the first 200+ km.
Post by: wilkyboy on 20 May, 2019, 11:10:51 pm
It's absolutely fine on fixed; there's a few sharp pulls but I found it all rideable. Plus there is some flatter parts like the Cheshire plains.
Whew! Thanks, Adam. I'm riding Bear Bones/LWL this weekend on fixed, which I'm expecting to be somewhat harder than WCW, even though shorter.
Post by: Phil W on 21 May, 2019, 02:58:53 pm
It's absolutely fine on fixed; there's a few sharp pulls but I found it all rideable. Plus there is some flatter parts like the Cheshire plains.
Whew! Thanks, Adam. I'm riding Bear Bones/LWL this weekend on fixed, which I'm expecting to be somewhat harder than WCW, even though shorter.
It is mostly rolling Wilkyboy. I remember a steepish section round Watlington but that has gone. The other steep bits I recall is the drag out of Henley on the return; plus there was something in the Cotswolds going north where I found myself in the big ring and the front derailleur not playing ball. I don't recall any brutish bits other than that, but looking at my timings from 2015, I was somewhat fitter then. So maybe I'll find more bits my legs notice this year.
Oh and the Severn Across 400 (now the Bare Bones 400) I didn't find particuarly challenging in 2013; I rode it almost as fast as my fastest Asparagus and Strawberries. But yet again, I was another level of fitness back then. So the Bare Bones is not more challenging than WCW just a different kind of ride and terrain; more concentrated hilly sections but plenty of easy bits.
Meanwhile with my current level of fitness I'll be using all my gears on WCW but that's just me; sure you'll be fine on fixed with your fitness.
Post by: wilkyboy on 21 May, 2019, 03:07:29 pm
Meanwhile with my current level fitness I'll be using all my gears on WCW but that's just me; sure you'll be fine on fixed with your fitness.
Thanks, Phil. I suspect I'll be using all my gear on WCW too :facepalm:
Post by: Phil W on 21 May, 2019, 07:39:42 pm
Meanwhile with my current level fitness I'll be using all my gears on WCW but that's just me; sure you'll be fine on fixed with your fitness.
Thanks, Phil. I suspect I'll be using all my gear on WCW too :facepalm:
Have faith in yourself you fixed riders are much stronger uphill.
Post by: wilkyboy on 21 May, 2019, 09:19:48 pm
Have faith in yourself you fixed riders are much stronger uphill.
Thanks; but I preferred your previous comment ;D
Post by: Delph Cyclist on 21 May, 2019, 09:55:32 pm
Danial has quickly replied...
"The main sleep stop is indeed in Sherriffhales/Lilleshall. It will be first come first served and I hope to have about 100 beds there for about 160 riders."
That's the "Main" sleep stop but is it the only one? Are there to be any beds elsewhere on the ride?
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 22 May, 2019, 03:43:44 pm
I do not believe there are any other official sleep stops. Alwyn is renowned for his attention to detail. If there were others he would have listed them!
Post by: alwyn on 22 May, 2019, 03:44:00 pm
Post by: Phil W on 22 May, 2019, 04:50:17 pm
Post by: jakemcree on 22 May, 2019, 09:49:52 pm
Post by: Phil W on 22 May, 2019, 09:53:01 pm
Does anyone have a full route for this?
Danial emailed out the GPX and route sheets in an email over the weekend.
Post by: jsabine on 22 May, 2019, 09:53:35 pm
Does anyone have a full route for this?
Danial emailed out the GPX and route sheets in an email over the weekend.
May 18th - I've just checked.
Post by: alwyn on 23 May, 2019, 05:42:18 am
If anyone can help him I'm sure he'd be very grateful.
Post by: wilkyboy on 23 May, 2019, 07:35:45 am
If anyone can help him I'm sure he'd be very grateful.
Does this help? https://www.camaudax.uk/rides/lel/wcw/2019/ (https://www.camaudax.uk/rides/lel/wcw/2019/)
Post by: Jethro on 23 May, 2019, 01:27:13 pm
Post by: markgoldstein on 23 May, 2019, 01:50:15 pm
I'll be sleeping at Sheriffhales...
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 23 May, 2019, 02:56:35 pm
Post by: GPS on 23 May, 2019, 03:42:11 pm
Post by: S2L on 23 May, 2019, 03:55:22 pm
If anyone can help him I'm sure he'd be very grateful.
Does this help? https://www.camaudax.uk/rides/lel/wcw/2019/ (https://www.camaudax.uk/rides/lel/wcw/2019/)
Didn't realise the route went up Dovers Hill after nearly 500 km... that'll be popular... ;D
The only "gentle" alternative up to Chipping Campden for those on recumbents, fixed and other marvellous machines is via the B road, but it adds a couple of km... and I understand the route is mandatory?
Post by: john jackson on 24 May, 2019, 12:31:31 pm
Nice to recall rolling up there last time. 2015 was my first 600 and first experience of the LEL/WCW team organisation. You'll work out the sleeping, it'll be fine. Last time I skipped the main sleep, it chucked it down and I arrived at the extra sleep stop soaked and shivering. I had no idea what I needed but the controllers there gently shepherded me to a pit. I got the wake up call on time and was handed a dry outer top, they'd put it in some sort of drying room. Despite many subsequent arrivals they knew which were my shoes and saddlebag. A brew and a slice of toast and homeward bound. All the controls, like LEL, were great.I was one of the controllers at Sheriffhales last time and will be at Sheriffhales this time. We will look after riders who wish to sleep here. Last time we did not run out of beds. As this is a sleep control only, we do ask riders to be very quiet, shoes off at the entrance, no chattering with your mates.
Remember to load the gpx file:-
WCW-S2-Lilleshall-Sheriffhales-Hartlebury.gpx to navigate you to the sleep stop.
The routesheet has a route "S2. Lilleshall to Hartlebury via Sheriffhales sleep stop" Bottom of page 7.
There will be signs to direct you.
Post by: kegere on 24 May, 2019, 12:51:59 pm
Has anyone experience of secret controls, I'm paranoid that I will go sailing past without noticing it particularly if dark. Are they normally positioned in a really obvious place, like a junction with a right hand turn so as to minimise people overshooting?
I'd hate to get to a much later control and realise my brevet is missing a rather important stamp!
Post by: Smeth on 24 May, 2019, 01:55:45 pm
I was one of the controllers at Sheriffhales last time and will be at Sheriffhales this time.
Thanks for the 2015 TLC. I'll be a general dogsbody further up/ down the line this time. :)
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Post by: jakemcree on 24 May, 2019, 04:20:45 pm
If anyone can help him I'm sure he'd be very grateful.
Does this help? https://www.camaudax.uk/rides/lel/wcw/2019/ (https://www.camaudax.uk/rides/lel/wcw/2019/)
Awesome, cheers Nick.
Post by: Ben T on 24 May, 2019, 06:08:07 pm
I was helping at LWL Lambourn control recently and watched a few riders overshoot, including one who mentioned he'd left the other side of the town before realising he'd missed it.
Has anyone experience of secret controls, I'm paranoid that I will go sailing past without noticing it particularly if dark. Are they normally positioned in a really obvious place, like a junction with a right hand turn so as to minimise people overshooting?
I'd hate to get to a much later control and realise my brevet is missing a rather important stamp!
I have, albeit not in the UK. There was loads, and they were basically somebody with their car boot open, directors chair and trestle table in a layby. They were easy to see and weren't in the dark. (They want you to stop, remember, the intention isn't to hide in a hedge to catch you out ;D )
Whether WCW will be similar I don't know but I would imagine they will have thought about making sure they are not easy to miss. If I was doing a secret and it was dark I would probably put up a (possibly flashing) rear bike light on a post or something.
Post by: jiberjaber on 27 May, 2019, 11:43:38 am
Post by: alwyn on 28 May, 2019, 08:00:04 pm
Post by: JonBuoy on 29 May, 2019, 07:19:46 am
I hope the rest of you have a good time - it looks a great route.
I am now booked onto Willesden's Last Gasp. Hopefully I will be sorted by then.
Post by: pfcboy on 29 May, 2019, 08:46:50 am
Post by: Smeth on 29 May, 2019, 09:08:50 am
Please ignore my ignorance as this will be my first 600km and self doubt is creeping upon me one of my concerns is sleep, I know it depends on pace but what is the average length of stay at the sleep zone?As you say wild speculation but I'd say 4 hours seems what many people target. My range in 600+ is from nothing to 6 hours in a Travelodge. Don't worry if time doesn't allow. A power nap or two is manageable. My sleep aims are usually nibbled by the need to crack on.
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Post by: psyclist on 29 May, 2019, 09:15:35 am
Please ignore my ignorance as this will be my first 600km and self doubt is creeping upon me one of my concerns is sleep, I know it depends on pace but what is the average length of stay at the sleep zone?
I wouldn't worry about the average. I would work out when you need to leave the sleep stop to ensure you comfortably finish the ride, allowing for a slightly slower average speed than the first day, and including a buffer.
I rode the Brimstone last weekend, a rather undulating 600km in Wessex. I had 1 hour of sleep, which was fine to reset my body clock and ensure a comfortable second day. On other 600s I've had anything from no sleep to 3 hours.
Post by: vorsprung on 29 May, 2019, 09:32:19 am
Please ignore my ignorance as this will be my first 600km and self doubt is creeping upon me one of my concerns is sleep, I know it depends on pace but what is the average length of stay at the sleep zone?
Please check out my top ten sleep tips (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=12336.msg208226#msg208226)
Basically, the answer is "at least 1.5h asleep" or "as much as you feel like and time will allow"
Post by: wilkyboy on 29 May, 2019, 09:33:26 am
I'll probably do my usual — an hour or a couple of halves as I go, with 20-minute sit-downs for the rest at the other controls. I'll be carrying a lightweight sleep mat for bus-shelter use should I need it, and we're forecast a really warm night, so no need for anything more than I'd be carrying anyway (rain jacket is usefully snug on such nights).
On a 6am start and based on my pace last weekend, I think I should be able to get quite a long way back to Bray before needing to stop, assuming I can bank some sleep over the next few nights (edit: not exactly bank, but just make sure I don't have much in the way of sleep debt, as Vorsprung said).
Post by: pfcboy on 29 May, 2019, 09:54:35 am
Please ignore my ignorance as this will be my first 600km and self doubt is creeping upon me one of my concerns is sleep, I know it depends on pace but what is the average length of stay at the sleep zone?
Thanks guys all good points guess I wont know till the day I like the thought of knowing I can have a designated sleep stop, but don't want to waste time unduly.
Post by: john jackson on 29 May, 2019, 10:39:53 am
I am the controller at the sleep stop at Sheriffhales. We will get you into bed as quickly as we can, and wake you a a time you choose.Please ignore my ignorance as this will be my first 600km and self doubt is creeping upon me one of my concerns is sleep, I know it depends on pace but what is the average length of stay at the sleep zone?
Thanks guys all good points guess I wont know till the day I like the thought of knowing I can have a designated sleep stop, but don't want to waste time unduly.
You will sleep better at a proper sleep stop than at a McDs or at the side of the road.
- It is quieter
- You are lying down
- You have a blanket so you are warmer
- You have controllers who will wake you, so you do not over sleep, or sleep less as you worry about oversleeping
- Quick breakfast of cereal and toast and a brew to set you up for the next leg
I normally sleep for 3 hours or more if I am riding fast.
Post by: pfcboy on 29 May, 2019, 11:23:03 am
I am the controller at the sleep stop at Sheriffhales. We will get you into bed as quickly as we can, and wake you a a time you choose.Please ignore my ignorance as this will be my first 600km and self doubt is creeping upon me one of my concerns is sleep, I know it depends on pace but what is the average length of stay at the sleep zone?
Thanks guys all good points guess I wont know till the day I like the thought of knowing I can have a designated sleep stop, but don't want to waste time unduly.
You will sleep better at a proper sleep stop than at a McDs or at the side of the road.I would advise bringing ear plugs in case we have someone who snores.
- It is quieter
- You are lying down
- You have a blanket so you are warmer
- You have controllers who will wake you, so you do not over sleep, or sleep less as you worry about oversleeping
- Quick breakfast of cereal and toast and a brew to set you up for the next leg
I normally sleep for 3 hours or more if I am riding fast.
SOLD. I'll see you there. PS No sugar in my brew :)
Post by: wilkyboy on 29 May, 2019, 11:43:11 am
You will sleep better at a proper sleep stop than at a McDs or at the side of the road.
Just to be clear — what John says is okay, if that works for you, but it is not a universal truth. I have rarely had a good rest at a sleep stop on any full-service event, and so have become quite accustomed to getting by on cat naps as needed, as they give the same re-charging but without any of the faff; the exceptions being towards the end of many-day events (LEL, PBP) when exhaustion overcomes the issues, and once on BCM.
You'll find what works for you, but on x-rated 600s (or bonkers 1200s, like PBP) then you'll have to learn to do without anyway ;)
Post by: Phil W on 29 May, 2019, 11:57:44 am
When you get to Lilleshall and Sherrifhales take a look at how far ahead of the time limits you are. Have something to eat at Lilleshall. I intended to ride through the night in 2015 but it started raining heavily as I was passing Sheriffhales so I dived in there, slept, then left when the rain had reduced back to drizzle. There was no faff, GPS turned off, then to bed. I like to aim for 3-5 hours stopped at a sleep control. I won't say sleep as it's not instant, but my eyes are at least closed. If I'm definitely not sleepy I get up and head off to the next control. So make a judgement call on how sleepy you are and whether you think you can make the next control before needing to close your eyes.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/46iic4ldm7wahb8/Annotation%202019-05-29%20114449.png?raw=1)
Post by: pfcboy on 29 May, 2019, 12:00:15 pm
You will sleep better at a proper sleep stop than at a McDs or at the side of the road.
Just to be clear — what John says is okay, if that works for you, but it is not a universal truth. I have rarely had a good rest at a sleep stop on any full-service event, and so have become quite accustomed to getting by on cat naps as needed, as they give the same re-charging but without any of the faff; the exceptions being towards the end of many-day events (LEL, PBP) when exhaustion overcomes the issues, and once on BCM.
You'll find what works for you, but on x-rated 600s (or bonkers 1200s, like PBP) then you'll have to learn to do without anyway ;)
You are quite right of course but to be honest I am not sure what works for me, I like the idea of breaking the ride up with a 'sleep' so mentally its just 2 x300 over 2 days if you understand my logic. My 400km I just rode until I finished around 3am but I only then had a short journey home so it wasn't too bad.
Post by: Wobbly on 29 May, 2019, 12:17:07 pm
I find 15 mins' shuteye when I need works for me - your mileage may vary, of course. That's why I always advise PBP virgins to do more than just one 400 and one 600 so they can learn what their body needs.
Post by: grams on 29 May, 2019, 12:33:38 pm
(With usual “everyone’s different” caveats)
Post by: wilkyboy on 29 May, 2019, 01:03:01 pm
You are quite right of course but to be honest I am not sure what works for me, I like the idea of breaking the ride up with a 'sleep' so mentally its just 2 x300 over 2 days if you understand my logic. My 400km I just rode until I finished around 3am but I only then had a short journey home so it wasn't too bad.
My point was not to dissuade you from John's embrace — seriously, if you can make it work for you then do so, John and his team WILL look after you grandly, and you'll be all the better for it, they know what they're about :thumbsup:
As for two 300s — to get that experience then you would sleep in Christleton. But you'll be sleeping in Sherrifhales, which is another 80km down the road, leaving a nice, "short" 230 to do in the morning ;)
Unless you are really slow or make the most of each and every control then you should get back to Lilleshall around 1-2am, at which point you may feel tired, or you may feel like cracking on into the night. You won't know until you're there — it's an interesting one when you do get there the first time, because you'll be learning something new about your endurance-self :)
The other one to watch is how often and how much you eat at the controls. I got around LEL asking for half-portions and skipping pudding because it was all too much; delicious, but I couldn't digest it that quickly, and wasn't low on energy either. On my 400 at the weekend, I was still digesting the sandwich I ate at 220km when we stopped 90km later and so didn't bother to eat anything much beyond a single stick of Twix and the remaining bite from a tea cake from breakfast. My plan for WCW (based on lots of experience) is to bounce the first control, which is really early in the ride, eat lightly at the second (break fast here) and third (lunch), bounce the fourth (maybe a cuppa and a biscuit), stop longer at the turn (dinner/supper) and take it easy on the way back seeing how I feel. It's something else to self-monitor while you're riding the event :thumbsup:
Post by: Phil W on 29 May, 2019, 01:07:07 pm
Post by: JulesP on 29 May, 2019, 01:12:48 pm
Am I right in thinking that as this is a mandatory route there will be no info controls and therefore no need to bring a pen?
There are just two secret controls, according to the official info, though it doesn't say what form they'll take.
Post by: Wobbly on 29 May, 2019, 01:20:36 pm
My plan for WCW (based on lots of experience) is to bounce the first control, which is really early in the ride, eat lightly at the second (break fast here) and third (lunch), bounce the fourth (maybe a cuppa and a biscuit), stop longer at the turn (dinner/supper) and take it easy on the way back seeing how I feel. It's something else to self-monitor while you're riding the event :thumbsup:
I am frankly alarmed at your omission of a helping of Wobbly's Brandified Bread Pudding at the Hartlebury Control.
I'm sure that's merely an oversight and that, after a portion, you'll be staggering onward worrying, like everyone else, about being breathalysed...
;D
Post by: wilkyboy on 29 May, 2019, 01:22:14 pm
My plan for WCW (based on lots of experience) is to bounce the first control, which is really early in the ride, eat lightly at the second (break fast here) and third (lunch), bounce the fourth (maybe a cuppa and a biscuit), stop longer at the turn (dinner/supper) and take it easy on the way back seeing how I feel. It's something else to self-monitor while you're riding the event :thumbsup:
I am frankly alarmed at your omission of a helping of Wobbly's Brandified Bread Pudding at the Hartlebury Control.
I'm sure that's merely an oversight and that, after a portion, you'll be staggering onward worrying, like everyone else, about being breathalysed...
;D
That's lunch sorted, thank you :thumbsup:
Post by: Phil W on 29 May, 2019, 01:26:52 pm
Post by: wilkyboy on 29 May, 2019, 02:24:56 pm
If you only want half portions, then just having the pudding is usually the best option. I'm hoping there will also be stuff at controls I can take to nibble along the way whilst riding.
Generally I prefer savoury, Phil. Anyway, it was a half-portion of savoury at one control, a small pudding at the next.
Post by: pfcboy on 29 May, 2019, 02:48:15 pm
You are quite right of course but to be honest I am not sure what works for me, I like the idea of breaking the ride up with a 'sleep' so mentally its just 2 x300 over 2 days if you understand my logic. My 400km I just rode until I finished around 3am but I only then had a short journey home so it wasn't too bad.
My point was not to dissuade you from John's embrace — seriously, if you can make it work for you then do so, John and his team WILL look after you grandly, and you'll be all the better for it, they know what they're about :thumbsup:
As for two 300s — to get that experience then you would sleep in Christleton. But you'll be sleeping in Sherrifhales, which is another 80km down the road, leaving a nice, "short" 230 to do in the morning ;)
Unless you are really slow or make the most of each and every control then you should get back to Lilleshall around 1-2am, at which point you may feel tired, or you may feel like cracking on into the night. You won't know until you're there — it's an interesting one when you do get there the first time, because you'll be learning something new about your endurance-self :)
The other one to watch is how often and how much you eat at the controls. I got around LEL asking for half-portions and skipping pudding because it was all too much; delicious, but I couldn't digest it that quickly, and wasn't low on energy either. On my 400 at the weekend, I was still digesting the sandwich I ate at 220km when we stopped 90km later and so didn't bother to eat anything much beyond a single stick of Twix and the remaining bite from a tea cake from breakfast. My plan for WCW (based on lots of experience) is to bounce the first control, which is really early in the ride, eat lightly at the second (break fast here) and third (lunch), bounce the fourth (maybe a cuppa and a biscuit), stop longer at the turn (dinner/supper) and take it easy on the way back seeing how I feel. It's something else to self-monitor while you're riding the event :thumbsup:
I understood your point :) I'm starting at 7:30am (you can see a sleep pattern!) so wonder what impact that will have at the sleep control?
Post by: jakemcree on 30 May, 2019, 07:46:33 pm
Post by: GPS on 30 May, 2019, 08:21:42 pm
Am I right in thinking that as this is a mandatory route there will be no info controls and therefore no need to bring a pen?
There are just two secret controls, according to the official info, though it doesn't say what form they'll take.
Well, they're secret ...
Post by: Kangaroocourt on 30 May, 2019, 10:01:35 pm
Post by: Phil W on 30 May, 2019, 10:23:08 pm
Post by: Wobbly on 30 May, 2019, 10:25:26 pm
(click to show/hide)
Post by: Phil W on 30 May, 2019, 10:31:40 pm
Don't worry, we have something to keep riders warm in Hartlebury(click to show/hide)
Is that the secret controller ?
Post by: jiberjaber on 30 May, 2019, 10:55:34 pm
Don't worry, we have something to keep riders warm in HartleburyConfirms my suspicion about the natives! Lol(click to show/hide)
Post by: alwyn on 30 May, 2019, 11:00:31 pm
Hey Danial, are there vegan options at all/some of the controls do you know?
Yeah, you should be fine. You're definitely got a choice of things at the start and finish and at Lilleshall. Appleford too, though I'm not encouraging anyone to linger there anyway.
Post by: jakemcree on 31 May, 2019, 07:33:52 am
Hey Danial, are there vegan options at all/some of the controls do you know?
Yeah, you should be fine. You're definitely got a choice of things at the start and finish and at Lilleshall. Appleford too, though I'm not encouraging anyone to linger there anyway.
Great, cheers
Post by: grapefruits on 31 May, 2019, 09:21:59 am
Post by: alfapete on 31 May, 2019, 10:02:14 am
Hey Danial, are there vegan options at all/some of the controls do you know?
Hi Jake,
Yep, we've started on the cooking today and have vegan and gluten-free options at Hartlebury. Other controls may vary.
Post by: wilkyboy on 31 May, 2019, 10:03:50 am
Everyone should remain acutely aware of the help they get going north and not hang around too long at any control, because they'll need the extra time to push south again — I know I will ::-)
Post by: marcusjb on 31 May, 2019, 10:13:53 am
Thankfully the real heat that had looked like it may make an appearance has abated (they were looking at 28-30 earlier in the week - too hot for me!).
Rain keeps on appearing and disappearing.
Looks toastie overnight though which will make a pleasant change.
Looking forwards to it now.
Post by: hippy on 31 May, 2019, 06:44:56 pm
high temperatures and direct sun for a lot of Saturday
Might finally be able to get rid of these silly glove tan lines!
Post by: hippy on 31 May, 2019, 06:45:45 pm
Looking forwards to it now.
O hai! What time are you off Marcus?
Post by: marcusjb on 31 May, 2019, 07:19:45 pm
Yourself?
So with my tremendous fitness and speed, I anticipate passing the entire 6am field by lunchtime.
Post by: hippy on 31 May, 2019, 10:52:26 pm
Post by: Karla on 01 June, 2019, 07:42:34 pm
Post by: S2L on 02 June, 2019, 01:01:26 pm
Post by: Wobbly on 02 June, 2019, 01:20:36 pm
Post by: αdαmsκι on 02 June, 2019, 04:05:38 pm
Post by: Wycombewheeler on 02 June, 2019, 04:17:21 pm
You will sleep better at a proper sleep stop than at a McDs or at the side of the road.I would advise bringing ear plugs in case we have someone who snores.
- It is quieter
I'm getting mixed messages here. a bus stop by the side of the road can be quite peaceful it it isn't a major a road.
Post by: hippy on 02 June, 2019, 07:36:35 pm
MUCH
FOOD
Big thanks to all the volunteers (how did the org get so many?!). They were always cheery, helpful and turned a blind eye to seconds, thirds, fourths, etc...
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 02 June, 2019, 09:48:23 pm
Post by: pfcboy on 02 June, 2019, 10:16:05 pm
Post by: Wobbly on 02 June, 2019, 10:38:33 pm
All controls were amazing such lovely passionate people and quality of food was so high we thought we were on a gastro tour rather than an Audax!😀
Thank you :) :thumbsup:
Post by: αdαmsκι on 02 June, 2019, 10:48:16 pm
Don't worry, we have something to keep riders warm in Hartlebury
*hic*
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8Ay8OdXUAAwXjy.jpg)
Post by: jiberjaber on 03 June, 2019, 12:08:21 am
I was trying to count southbound riders as I was heading up to Chester. I think you were the 4th, Jasmin was 7th and I lost count after about 8!
Cracking ride, tougher than expected - frazzled on Saturday with a month of sunshine in a day and powering along with a tail wind resulting in me bedding down early doors - even the thought of riding down the road to the official sleep stop was a leap too far! rough section in the Cotswolds with the rain and significant reduction in power made it tough going however the shining start manning the controls were ace :thumbsup:
Grand day out!
Post by: marcusjb on 03 June, 2019, 12:27:18 am
Just fantastic.
Great route, even better than last time. A tough route with most of the climbing being very spikey (especially Dover’s Hill and the one shortly after it), but some simply fabulous views, so we did get the reward.
Massive gratitude to the huge team Danial had put together for giving up their weekend to make the event so special.
What a contrasting pair of days - the heat and humidity of Saturday leading into some pretty grim weather Sunday.
Post by: S2L on 03 June, 2019, 07:50:06 am
Great fun as a volunteer as well this weekend.
Yep, and very busy when the bulge arrived... :thumbsup:
Post by: Huff n Puff on 03 June, 2019, 09:01:49 am
Superb event.
Post by: kegere on 03 June, 2019, 09:48:31 am
On the way out I realised Dovers Hill was going to be hard and not just because of tired legs, however it was still a shock.
Post by: αdαmsκι on 03 June, 2019, 12:23:27 pm
http://www.aukweb.net/results/archive/2019/listevent/?Ride=19-461
Post by: S2L on 03 June, 2019, 12:30:32 pm
Provisional results are already up :thumbsup:
http://www.aukweb.net/results/archive/2019/listevent/?Ride=19-461
129 started I understood, so quite a high number of DNF... it was hot
Post by: Bagman on 03 June, 2019, 12:34:17 pm
A big thank you to all the people at the controls in particular those at Lilleshall.
Next up Wander Wye
Post by: grams on 03 June, 2019, 01:17:53 pm
Wilkyboy's comment about needing extra time to head south was certainly on the money - I did Bray-Sheriffhales as 11h45 northbound, 15 hours southbound.
Echoing everyone else about how excellent the volunteers were. So weird doing an audax without gulping down crap coffee on a garage forecourt.
Post by: Wobbly on 03 June, 2019, 01:24:22 pm
*hic*
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8Ay8OdXUAAwXjy.jpg)
I suspect the very warm weather was to blame but analysis has shown that much too much of the brandy evaporated before riders got the full effect of the Brandified Bread pudding.
Do not fret: I have ideas about how to rectify this next time.
Post by: S2L on 03 June, 2019, 01:26:08 pm
It'd be interesting to find out how many DNFs were on day 1 (from the heat) vs day 2 (from the relentless hills, headwind and rain). If I'd spend more than the 90 minutes asleep ("asleep") I did at Sheriffhales I might have been out of time.
Wilkyboy's comment about needing extra time to head south was certainly on the money - I did Bray-Sheriffhales as 11h45 northbound, 15 hours southbound.
Echoing everyone else about how excellent the volunteers were. So weird doing an audax without gulping down crap coffee on a garage forecourt.
More than half DNF didn't make it to Hartlebury on the way north
Post by: Karla on 03 June, 2019, 01:29:22 pm
Post by: Rich XAB on 03 June, 2019, 01:47:27 pm
Post by: Phil W on 03 June, 2019, 01:58:06 pm
Got up around 6am, had breakfast, then drove down to the start with Howard (who'd cycled over), getting there just after 7am.
I was on the 7:30am start and it started well enough and I was enjoying the early morning riding through the shaded Chilterns beech woodland. It was a perfect temperature for me. Once through the Chilterns it flattened as we rolled onto the Appleford control just west of Oxford. Appleford I topped up my water bottles, toilet visit, grabbed some cake for my stem cell, then off again.
After a gently rolling section we entered the Cotswolds and the series of climbs and descents began. Gentle but long climbs, a little bit of high up ridge riding, then followed by rapid descents, then repeat. The temperature began to climb, and without the same extent of shade as the Chilterns, my sweat rate increased. Arriving in Broadwell the control was just by a ford which I chose not to ride through but jump up on the grass and into the control. Water bottles topped up and then inside for baked potato, beans and sausage. Plus a jug of fruit juice. I'd mostly ridden with Howard and Matt up to this point.
Onwards to Hartlebury, continuing through the Cotswolds. Riding along a main road there was a close pass by the ubiquitous blacked out SUVs. John Sabine who had crept up behind me exclaimed fucking hell very loudly. I'm not sure what made me jump more, the pass or John's very loud sweary shouting. The pass being completely unecessary as a large gap in the traffic coming the other way opened up almost immediately. We were soon to turn off that road back into lanes. The heat continued to climb as we entered the afternoon. My jersey was now dripping, salt was cristalising out on my cap and face and arms. I was drinking a lot. Eventually I had gone through my two bottles and with no shops in sight I looked for a house I could knock on the door of for water. The only houses I saw were large properties, gated, and probably surrounded by electric fences and gattling guns to keep water seeking cyclists out. Eventually I reached a village hall in Hanbury where I pulled over. A note on the door said infinite yoga do not disturb, but on the note was the pin code for an outside toilet. Sure enough it had a wash basin, so toilet stop, and water topped up I was off again. Along here I caught a rider with a yellow top who was riding round in circles as his Wahoo was playing up. After a few more missed turns where I shouted after him; we rode together to Hartlebury. At Hartlebury he was able to get a new WCW track off ridewithgps using his paired phone and I must say I was impressed at that Wahoo feature. not sure so much it losing the plot on the original.
At Hartlebury I had a decent length rest with more baked potato and beans and fruit juice. I was sat at a table with Drew Buck and his face expressed how I was feeling. I was completely whacked from the heat. My legs got violent cramps at one point and I had to stand up to relieve it. Continuing north we skirted the the suburbs surrounding Kidderminster before once more into the lanes. I was increasingly getting passed by riders, each one asking if I was alright. I was getting slower and slower but still moving forwards. The sweat continued to pour off. As the fatigue built I decided I needed to have a rest, so got off the bike and lay down in a shaded grass bank. When I next got on the bike I was violently sick, then paused, tried riding and was violently sick again, paused tried riding, sick again, tried some water sick again. I paused longer, arms resting on bars and head down. Tried riding again, sick. At this point I got my brevet card and looked at the timings, looked at what I was averaging, how far it was to the turn. I realised that I had slowed so much that I had virtually wiped out any buffer I had built for sleep. Without rest and sleep there was no way I would recover from my current state. Plus there would be a headwind on the way back. Despite the conflict with PBP qualification I decided it was time to call it.
I turned and started gently rolling down the hill and saw Drew Buck stopped a little way down. I pulled over and we had a chat, that I was turning back for Hartlebury. He was in a similar position and pondering whether to continue. I wished him well while he still pondered, and trundled on, back south. I was feeling queasy anytime the hills went up, so got off and walked at any point I thought I was about to chunder. I freewheeled most the down hills, pedalling the in between the up and down stuff. Eventually I was back at Hartlbury where Peter confirmed me as DNF. Offers of food and drink but I just needed to sleep. I was more scared of trying something and throwing up to be honest. So I went straight to bed in an empty dorm. I was shivering under a blanket and my teeth were chattering away. I think my teeth were sending out an ailing "help me, help me..." in morse code. I heard noises of faster riders coming in around 10pm, a couple of whom came into the dorm I was in and snored loudly (great).
Shortly after midnight I got up and had a couple of slices of toast and some juice before returning back to bed. I was recovering bit by bit now my body had a chance to cool and rest. I think it was Wobbly who was asking about back up plans for a 600, and PBP qualification. I was kind of the mind to say sod it at the time, and just go out to Rambouillet, see the start, then spend a few days drinking till everyone came back. Sorry if my replies were a bit short. I'm not the best at those type of questions, when in the state I was in, and it can feel like an interrogation. As I said at the time it's not the right time to be asking (or answering) that question.
At 3am I got up for breakfast. Drew was there having decided to pack as well and was tucking into beans of toast. I sat with him and went for beans and toast as well with black tea. I could easily taste the essential salt in the beans. He had set off back just a few minutes behind me. At least there was one person on the road as slow as me. A very minor consolation. Drew was telling me about his PBP where he rode with Steve Abraham on the triplet. They were the fastest thing on the road which they turned into massive sleeps and rest at the controls. Great stuff. Jasmin Muller came out from the dorm wrapped in a blanket and sat at our table. She was warm when riding, but cold whilst stopped. She talked about training your gut, and we talked a little about how the weather had been on RATN. About 3:45am I set off into the pre dawn light. My GPS took a while to load the south bound track and in the end I turn it on and off which seemed to sort it out. Whilst stationary waiting for the GPS to be ready (Wobbly) checked on me again, my PBP 600 qualifier plans, and then I was off.
The night was a nice temperature, I was trundling along ok. I say trundling rather than riding as I was trying to keep my effort levels down, and not sweat at all. I could take in water again, and eat crisps, so the little over 6 hours of rest had done some good. Jasmin Muller said "Hi, you ok" as she flew past on her impossibly lightly loaded setup. More and more fast riders passed looking impossibly fresh and probably wondering how on earth someone going as slowly as I was could have been ahead of them. The hills through the Cotswolds seemed steeper heading south. I walked the steeper bits whenever I felt my efforts levels sharply climbing. The headwind which was fairly light pre dawn steadily increased as the day woke up. A worker in hiviz on an Elephant bike with drum brakes and sturmey archer gears overtook me up on long hill. Oh the ignominy! Eventually Broadwell turned up where I slowly ate a bacon roll with tea.
I was still riding slowly, walking many hills, and queasiness was never that far away. The temperature was now also climbing even in the early morning. Andy Preston sat and chatted a while and mentioned that he thought there was a train station near by that could get me to Oxford and from there to Maidenhead. A bit of map lookup and they gave me directions to the nearest station. It was too tempting and the prospect of another 100km as it warmed up again, possibly followed by heavy rain did not entice me to continue riding; for what purpose?
Andy, looked up the next trains, and said you could easily make the station in 30 mins (to catch the next one) but I allowed a couple of hours (to get a later train) given my state! Andy pointed me at the dorm for some rest an they would wake me in time to ride for the later train. The train journey went well and I found another rider who had abandoned further north when I boarded the train (at Oxford) for Reading. I was pleased with the station staff who had got me a bike reservation 8 minutes before the train rolled in. From Reading it was a 2 stop local train to Maidenhead.
From Maidenhead it was about a 2 mile ride initially down the A308 then left into Bray. Easy navigation, and I was back at Bray by 3pm; to see Jasmin Muller just leaving. My appetite was back at Bray and I tucked into the soup, freshly baked bread, sandwiches, scotch eggs, and washed it down with the different fruit juices. Fatigue came back in waves and I pulled out a mattress onto the stage where the bags were. Think I managed four shifts on it. Eating in between sleeping. As the day wore on riders turned up increasingly soggy and fatigued from the wind and rain.
I had to wait for Howard my passenger from the morning. As time ticked towards the deadline I rode out and retrieved the car and put it in the village car park. It ticked over into the last few minutes; Neil came in with a couple of woman, they mentioned, when I asked if they had seen Howard, that a rider had come off his bike, but they didn't know their name. I found out from Danial that Howard had got the dozies about 6am on Sunday and come off his bike. Danial had confirmed he'd seen him at Appleford and that Howard was on a mission to finish. Tables and chairs were now being put back in storage. Time ticked onwards and John Sabine rolled in. Soup and bread and then it was time for him to head off to the station. As he talked about the ferry crossing for Paris, I didn't tell him at the time that I'd abandoned, I'd had enough of the questions from earlier riders about my PBP intentions, and didn't want to spoil the mood of his hard fought for finish.
I'd decided that I would drive back out along the route if Howard did not turn up by 11:45pm. It was a long wait as he arrived right on the time limit, 11:30pm. Howard was battered and bruised, his face was was swollen and cut, he had properly crashed when he fell asleep on the bike, broken his helmet in four places, bloodied knees, his ribs hurt, ripped his jacket. Seriously battered and bruised, but he'd made it.
After a quick drink and grabbing some cake it was time to drop Howard back at his home, then home for myself. We walked round to the car and I lifted Howard's bike onto my tow bar mounted bike rack. He wasn't able to lift the bike. Whenever we hit a pothole in the dark Howard winced. But soon enough we were on the Motorways and speeding home in light but no empty traffic. We talked about his crash and the time leading up to it, and what he did after, pulling over if he ever felt he was feeling sleepy again. Howard then fell asleep not suprising even without this injuries. I turned the music up to keep me alert, Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon, appropriate. Eventually I dropped Howard off at his home, took his bike upto his house, and we said our good nights. Another 20 mins and I was home, for a shower, milkshake then bed.
I'd noticed when putting Howards bike on and off the rack that the rear wheel was jammed against the frame. Hopefully just a loose quick release or something. What an eventful weekend. Bravo to all who took part and finished.
A nights rest, and morning to ponder and I have decided I will be trying to complete my 600 qualifier for PBP. So three weeks time I will be on Fenland Friends 600. Probably on the recumbent. Meanwhile I'm going to ponder my rehydration strategy and think I am going to have to go back to having electrolytes in my water and carry some sachets of diorlyte.
Thanks for a great event, sometimes things just don't work out for riders. I'm much more sanguine about it these days. First time I ever quit an audax I was in tears and my emotions were all over the place.
Thanks for all the kind words and checks I was ok from those I met when suffering.
Post by: psyclist on 03 June, 2019, 02:16:36 pm
I manage to get through hot rides by drinking lots, and taking additional stops to cool down out of the sun ... usually involving a pint of lemonade and crisps or peanuts. Your thoughts on using electrolytes and carrying diorlyte sounds sensible.
Post by: Wobbly on 03 June, 2019, 02:17:35 pm
I think it was Wobbly who was asking about back up plans for a 600, and PBP qualification. I was kind of the mind to say sod it at the time, and just go out to see the start then spend a few days drinking till everyone came back. Sorry if my replies were a bit short. I'm not the best at when in the staet I was in, and it can feel like an interrogation. As I said at the time its not the right time to be asking (or answering) that question.
Sorry Phil. Guilty as charged, Squire.
I was unsettled at seeing you (and Drew) DNF'ing - it's not in the natural order of things - so my "cheerful chap" persona was not appropriate. I shall try to learn from that experience.
Post by: psyclist on 03 June, 2019, 02:18:25 pm
... grabbed some cake for my stem cell ...
are you growing a miniature version of yourself?
Post by: hellymedic on 03 June, 2019, 02:19:43 pm
Great write-up!
Sorry you didn't finish!
Post by: Smeth on 03 June, 2019, 02:58:49 pm
Sent from my SM-J510FN using Tapatalk
Post by: wilkyboy on 03 June, 2019, 03:04:07 pm
First up — thank you to all the volunteers who were super cheery and super helpful all the way around — on the return they were even more helpful, because I managed to sneak into the lull between the speedsters and the bulge and had at least one control entirely to myself for a few minutes!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
I got around in just over 36 hours — 15 hours to the turn, but worked just a little too hard to get there in the humidity and didn't have much in the way of legs all the way back, plus a couple of longer stops to snooze. Finished with a flourish turning almost-evens, flattered by a tailwind. Hydration was a significant issue and I was on the verge of a bad moment at Appleford on the return, but it passed after a jug of juice.
As always on full-service events, the standard portions are waaaay too big, and so I was on half-portions all the way around, often only single-course, so sorry if someone wanted a whole slice of Wobbly's tipsy cake, but only got a half — my fault ;) Even on half-portions I felt over-full and ready to burst on the final leg back to Bray — I wasn't low on energy at any point, just low on power back up the hills.
I would like to commend the tomato and lentil soup at Hartlebury, and the carrot soup at arrivée — if anyone wants to share recipes, PM me ;) The sausages with gravy at Lilleshall were top-notch, too, as was the crumble and custard. And the availability of salad to decorate a cheese sandwich in Appleford on the return was wonderful — on these long adventures, the simpler things can just unexpectedly hit the spot. I would've loved to have some of the bacon at Broadwell, but I can't digest it on the bike, but the breakfast you gave was super — my first food of the day. Edit: and someone just reminded me of the delicious hot sausage rolls at Christleton, too. Somewhere I picked up a slice of Millionaire's Shortbread (Christleton?) for the saddlebag that was amazing. Wobbly's cake can only ever be a one-off — my line was somewhat ragged after that ...
Great to see the usual rascals, plus well met a few more :thumbsup:
Even with all the riders on the road, I managed to ride almost the whole way back on my own, mostly without anyone passing me either, which was weird, as I was slow. Just the end of the final stage I rode in with Glen, to complete his first SR.
Thank you to Danial for doing the long-game and masterminding the event :-* :thumbsup:
And thank you once again to all the volunteers — you are the ones that make full-service just that, and your cheeriness to counter our weariness is so unbelievably welcome :-* :thumbsup:
My rather longer, less succinct write up with photos is on Strava (https://www.strava.com/activities/2419923298).
Post by: kegere on 03 June, 2019, 03:47:18 pm
I would like to commend the tomato and lentil soup at Hartlebury, and the carrot soup at arrivée — if anyone wants to share recipes.
Great to see the usual rascals, plus well met a few more :thumbsup:
Agree with both the soups, equally I'd love to see the recipes ;D
Good to meet you on the outward leg, you were always preparing to leave on the return controls, never managed to catch you on the road not helped by needing to stop for multiple chocolate milkshakes.
Post by: Phil W on 03 June, 2019, 03:52:34 pm
Well done everyone, volunteers and food at the ontrols were excellent, although with a start/finish in Bray I wonder if The Fat Duck or The Waterside might have added a touch of class as an Arrivee ?😁
Superb event.
Wondered why you didn't stop when you checked in. Were you off to a booked table at the Fat Duck?
Post by: wilkyboy on 03 June, 2019, 04:04:14 pm
Good to meet you on the outward leg, you were always preparing to leave on the return controls, never managed to catch you on the road not helped by needing to stop for multiple chocolate milkshakes.
You too, K. :thumbsup:
Post by: S2L on 03 June, 2019, 04:08:03 pm
I would like to commend the tomato and lentil soup at Hartlebury,
... you mean the vegan chili?
Post by: wilkyboy on 03 June, 2019, 04:09:46 pm
I would like to commend the tomato and lentil soup at Hartlebury,
... you mean the vegan chili?
No. The vegan chili was delicious too, but the tomato and lentil soup was special at audax o'clock breakfast :thumbsup:
Post by: Phil W on 03 June, 2019, 04:14:52 pm
I think it was Wobbly who was asking about back up plans for a 600, and PBP qualification. I was kind of the mind to say sod it at the time, and just go out to see the start then spend a few days drinking till everyone came back. Sorry if my replies were a bit short. I'm not the best at when in the staet I was in, and it can feel like an interrogation. As I said at the time its not the right time to be asking (or answering) that question.
Sorry Phil. Guilty as charged, Squire.
I was unsettled at seeing you (and Drew) DNF'ing - it's not in the natural order of things - so my "cheerful chap" persona was not appropriate. I shall try to learn from that experience.
Heat is an achilles heel, and once dehydrated enough, is my number one reason for DNF. So I am just going to have to really focus on that. So if anyone sees me on Fenland Friends in three weeks, with a watertank mounted to my recumbent, and a fine mist spray keeping me cool. You'll know I've cracked it. Interestingly some of my best audax rides where I've virtually flown round have been in the rain. I blame it on my northern roots, and fair hair and skin.
I think when you are tired, fatigued, abandoned something that you really didn't want to, despite knowing it's the right decision, when it is still raw, knowing that it affects PBP. Then you don't necessarily want to externalise the conversation you having. Like a few in audax, I'm an introvert (yes we hide it well we are told), and so tend to work things out in our heads first, ponder matters in more detail, before sharing or discussing our thoughts with others. Unlike extroverts who tends to share their limited thoughts very early on, externalising the conversion so others can provide the answers. One of the many reasons extroverts get the first word in. So an extrovert would probably respond much better to this externalising the thought process of what are you going to do about PBP? But us introverts like to work out the answers in our head first, it takes longer before we respond, with our thoughts more fully formed.
So I intend to restore PBP into the natural order of things in three weeks. I'll be damned if heat gets the better of me next time, even if that means longer stops to rehydrate, cool down.
Thanks for the support.
P.S. That's not a rant about extroverts, we are just wired differently, and hence respond differently.
Post by: Phil W on 03 June, 2019, 04:18:42 pm
... grabbed some cake for my stem cell ...
are you growing a miniature version of yourself?
Well a full size one to take over the riding, whilst I am soaked in a saline solution in my saddle bag would have worked very well.
Post by: wilkyboy on 03 June, 2019, 04:20:24 pm
Like a few in audax, I'm an introvert (yes we hide it well we are told)
Aye, this, on all three points.
Post by: wilkyboy on 03 June, 2019, 04:22:34 pm
Post by: JBB on 03 June, 2019, 05:07:35 pm
Julia
Post by: hellymedic on 03 June, 2019, 05:32:15 pm
Eating my own weight in veg today — the food en route was delicious, but a bit carb-heavy at times, and the following wind back from Chester was immense ... :hand:
Suspect the old 'beans on toast at every control' catering would have out-trumped that...
Post by: HowardK on 03 June, 2019, 05:36:02 pm
Thanks to all at the controls; especially the final few where I was greeted royally despite being right up against the time limits.
Somewhat stiff and sore today but escaped relatively unscathed considering the numbers of cuts and abrasions. The upside is that I can now justify buying some new kit as managed to destroy a number of other items aside from the helmet. Will check the bike closely at the weekend but hopefully just a bit of adjustment is required as it got me through the final 240k okay.
Special thanks to Phil for hanging around for me at the finish. Am looking forward to tempering the aches with several beers in Berlin this evening.
Howard
Post by: hellymedic on 03 June, 2019, 05:41:33 pm
DO check that frame!
Post by: S2L on 03 June, 2019, 05:49:37 pm
Heat is an achilles heel, and once dehydrated enough, is my number one reason for DNF. So I am just going to have to really focus on that. So if anyone sees me on Fenland Friends in three weeks, with a watertank mounted to my recumbent, and a fine mist spray keeping me cool. You'll know I've cracked it. Interestingly some of my best audax rides where I've virtually flown round have been in the rain. I blame it on my northern roots, and fair hair and skin.
Given the violence of the symptoms you described, I would get a GP appointment, just to stay on the safe side.
Post by: Shaftesburybiker on 03 June, 2019, 06:50:19 pm
Post by: Von Broad on 03 June, 2019, 07:50:39 pm
But when the reason is totally physiological for DNF, you hardly have any choice in the matter. The decision's already been made for you.
But what did leap out of the page at me was this:
Meanwhile I'm going to ponder my rehydration strategy and think I am going to have to go back to having electrolytes in my water and carry some sachets of diorlyte.
:o :o
We're all different, but I could never survive on just drinking plain water on a ride like this and with the conditions as they were on Saturday. You need that water getting into your cells.
Hydration is one thing, but effective hydration is even better. And personally, for me, I HAVE to have electrolyte tabs on rides like this.
Good luck on the FF. get the recumbent out, get some hydration gear, rock up, take it steady and you'll be fine.
edit: ok, I've just noticed you've started a tread about your hydration experiences
Post by: Phil W on 03 June, 2019, 08:27:28 pm
Post by: markgoldstein on 03 June, 2019, 08:36:24 pm
Closer inspection revealed that a drive-side spoke had pulled straight through the rim bed, with the wheel unable to complete a revolution. Game over.
Or so I though. I was literally googling "Wallingford taxis" and vowing never to do another 600 again, when a local dog walker asked if everything was OK. He turned out to be a keen cyclist, and 15 mins later we'd successfully installed his 9-speed winter wheel, allowing me to carefully complete the final 40km across the Chilterns and complete my PBP qualification.
Thank goodness for the generosity of cyclists!
And thanks to all the volunteers who couldn't do enough for us at the controls, I'll miss that at the next Co-op...
Post by: Phil W on 03 June, 2019, 08:58:56 pm
Post by: The Solo Socialist on 03 June, 2019, 09:20:50 pm
Sorry to hear you DNF'd through ill health. Good luck with PBP qualifying.
Post by: markgoldstein on 03 June, 2019, 09:44:29 pm
Post by: hippy on 03 June, 2019, 09:52:52 pm
Great fun as a volunteer as well this weekend.Yep, and very busy when the bulge arrived... :thumbsup:
I have a name you know?!
;-)
Post by: jiberjaber on 03 June, 2019, 10:09:03 pm
TLDR; Tough day at the office, hot, then wet with lumps in the middle.... SR & PBP qualifications completed 1.5hrs sleep, 38 hours elapsed.
(click to show/hide)
Post by: josser on 03 June, 2019, 10:40:58 pm
Post by: Chris S on 03 June, 2019, 10:47:40 pm
hot, then wet with lumps in the middle....
Story of my life... ::-)
Post by: the straggler on 04 June, 2019, 12:16:10 am
I also do not take too well in hot/humid conditions and find that keeping my drinks as simple as possible works for me. ie either keep to squash or plain water. One event resulted in a DNF as I was made a mistake in adding electrolyte tablet into a bottle already containing orange juice and water. I ended up feeling bloated and loosing all appetite to consume solid food for the next controls.
This being my 1st WCW, this event certainly surprised me both in terms of the challenging terrain (in a positive way); and the wide range in choice of food and drinks offered and quality of the catering at the control rest stops were just FAB. :thumbsup: At the moment, I will find difficulty to suggest any improvement that can be made for next edition.
Post by: Phil W on 04 June, 2019, 10:50:10 am
Post by: Phil W on 04 June, 2019, 05:56:14 pm
War and peace write up in spoiler
TLDR; Tough day at the office, hot, then wet with lumps in the middle.... SR & PBP qualifications completed 1.5hrs sleep, 38 hours elapsed.(click to show/hide)
Good read. You could see the poppy field going north with migrating snails for company. Lovely wasn't it?
Post by: jiberjaber on 04 June, 2019, 06:10:53 pm
War and peace write up in spoiler
TLDR; Tough day at the office, hot, then wet with lumps in the middle.... SR & PBP qualifications completed 1.5hrs sleep, 38 hours elapsed.(click to show/hide)
Good read. You could see the poppy field going north with migrating snails for company. Lovely wasn't it?
Yep - that reminds me there were quite a few snails and also frog out on the night section... I'd forgotten about that!
Post by: JBB on 04 June, 2019, 08:34:00 pm
War and peace write up in spoiler
TLDR; Tough day at the office, hot, then wet with lumps in the middle.... SR & PBP qualifications completed 1.5hrs sleep, 38 hours elapsed.(click to show/hide)
Good read. You could see the poppy field going north with migrating snails for company. Lovely wasn't it?
Yep - that reminds me there were quite a few snails and also frog out on the night section... I'd forgotten about that!
Spotted a hare and a baby weasel/stoat south of Charlbury, not in the same place of course!
Post by: αdαmsκι on 04 June, 2019, 09:05:05 pm
Spotted a hare and a baby weasel/stoat south of Charlbury, not in the same place of course!
Who knows how to tell them apart?........ ;) ;) ;)
Post by: audax-man on 04 June, 2019, 10:02:55 pm
I am not a regular on here (only 2 previous posts, 1 in 2018 & 1 in 2015), however I MUST thank Danial and ALL the volunteers for another brilliant WCW event.
I can't really fault anything except the portion sizes were too large! so I always asked for a child's portion.
All the home-made food was particularly welcome and the catering for us veggies was excellent....especially the carrot and lentil soup for breakfast, an usual choice but it really worked for me.
As fellow Dulwich Paragon rider Mark G has recalled we had an incident with his rear wheel, resolved very quickly by a local cyclist, and all in all it was one of my favorite rides, except for the infamous Drovers Hill.....wasn't WCW 2015 easier?
Or is it just that I am 4 years older? plus my memory has gone!
Adrian
PS Phil sorry to hear of your DNF, and good luck with other qualies....I think I last saw you in Buntingford?
Post by: Phil W on 04 June, 2019, 10:27:49 pm
Dover Hill was there in 2015 but the control was Weston Sub Edge right at the bottom, so we all tackled it after a break and some refreshment. But yes four years does seem to have robbed us of some zest , though it wasn't hot in 15.
Anyway will now be back out in a little over 2.5 weeks to grab that final qualifying 600. Of course it will snow now I am building my heat stratagem for it.
Post by: αdαmsκι on 04 June, 2019, 10:43:00 pm
Dover Hill was there in 2015 but the control was Weston Sub Edge right at the bottom, so we all tackled it after a break and some refreshment. But yes four years does seem to have robbed us of some zest , though it wasn't hot in 15.
In 2015 we approached, and left, Western sub Edge slightly differently as we headed to the eastern side of Chipping Campden like so: https://goo.gl/maps/pXhp6o8HcqQvufhVA
I realise this still has some climbing but looking at the OS map it wasn't as bad: http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=413413&Y=240574&A=Y&Z=120
There was actually very little overlap between the 2015 and 2019 route until we reached Western Sub Edge
Post by: Phil W on 04 June, 2019, 11:19:01 pm
Post by: audax-man on 04 June, 2019, 11:47:46 pm
I'm pleased that my memory was correct, mind you I was so exhausted at the top of Dovers Hill this year that I had a brief look at the beautiful meadows there. An added bonus before I carried on.
Post by: grapefruits on 05 June, 2019, 10:11:58 am
tl;dr: great event, I had no real mishaps and got round fine really. SR and PBP qualification in the bag. Thanks to all the volunteers!
Post by: S2L on 05 June, 2019, 11:27:45 am
I did a blog about this: https://audaxnerd.co.uk/post/185380552673/chilli-sausage-chilli-aka
tl;dr: great event, I had no real mishaps and got round fine really. SR and PBP qualification in the bag. Thanks to all the volunteers!
Glad you enjoyed my bread pudding... :thumbsup:
PS: if you want to volunteer, Manotea is looking for help in another thread on here
Post by: Karla on 05 June, 2019, 11:41:46 am
despite my co-controller keeping you talking for hours at breakfast after you woke up ;)
Post by: mattc on 05 June, 2019, 06:18:13 pm
I can't resist such an open goal:Spotted a hare and a baby weasel/stoat south of Charlbury, not in the same place of course!
Who knows how to tell them apart?........ ;) ;) ;)
A weasel is weasily recognised and a stoat is stoatally different!
Post by: Phil W on 05 June, 2019, 06:32:37 pm
A backup 600 now arranged for 2.5 weeks time. Wish me luck.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/ctkgxzcsnfh1b92/Almost.jpg?raw=1)
Post by: andyp on 05 June, 2019, 08:41:56 pm
Post by: tonyh on 05 June, 2019, 08:43:39 pm
Post by: Huff n Puff on 06 June, 2019, 05:58:21 pm
A weasel is weasily recognised and a stoat is stoatally different!
'Ferreted' out from your book of classic gags? 8)
Post by: Huff n Puff on 06 June, 2019, 06:06:17 pm
Well done everyone, volunteers and food at the ontrols were excellent, although with a start/finish in Bray I wonder if The Fat Duck or The Waterside might have added a touch of class as an Arrivee ?😁
Superb event.
Wondered why you didn't stop when you checked in. Were you off to a booked table at the Fat Duck?
Sorry Phil, would have said hello if I'd seen you, but was in a bit of hurry to get home and prep a work meeting I had on Monday. A shame really, it's always nice to have a coffee and chat at the end of a ride, sharing tales of 'derring-do', mechanicals and steep hills. Good luck in your replacement 600 mate.
Post by: αdαmsκι on 06 June, 2019, 08:17:00 pm
I can't resist such an open goal:
A weasel is weasily recognised and a stoat is stoatally different!
Good lad. ;D
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 07 June, 2019, 09:05:36 am
Post by: hippy on 07 June, 2019, 09:25:54 am
also frog out on the night section... I'd forgotten about that!
On the LHS of the road, right where you'd be riding? I saw one that was riskin' a squishin'
#shouldabeenwearinghivizandhelmet
Post by: Wycombewheeler on 07 June, 2019, 10:32:21 am
Obviously missed the toad safety training/not following the green cross toad.also frog out on the night section... I'd forgotten about that!
On the LHS of the road, right where you'd be riding? I saw one that was riskin' a squishin'
#shouldabeenwearinghivizandhelmet
Post by: frankly frankie on 07 June, 2019, 02:00:46 pm
My journey to PBP 19
A backup 600 now arranged for 2.5 weeks time. Wish me luck.
Not the one with the postal finish I trust. (== 2 weeks delay in results)
Post by: Phil W on 07 June, 2019, 02:04:41 pm
My journey to PBP 19
A backup 600 now arranged for 2.5 weeks time. Wish me luck.
Not the one with the postal finish I trust. (== 2 weeks delay in results)
Fenland Friends which will have controllers at the pub finish. So hopefully everyone will hand in their cards at the pub.
Post by: Wycombewheeler on 07 June, 2019, 04:46:57 pm
It doesn't have to be. The organiser can set the post deadline as one week if they choose.My journey to PBP 19
A backup 600 now arranged for 2.5 weeks time. Wish me luck.
Not the one with the postal finish I trust. (== 2 weeks delay in results)
Asparagus and strawberries was listed as allowing postal finish for early finishers but presumably everyone handed the cards in at the end as the provisional results went up on the Tuesday after the ride.
Post by: alwyn on 10 June, 2019, 07:26:02 am
Post by: Kangaroocourt on 10 June, 2019, 09:43:34 pm