Author Topic: Seat stay rear lights  (Read 8581 times)

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Seat stay rear lights
« Reply #25 on: 04 February, 2018, 08:08:58 pm »
Sorry, this not switching off thing is just daft. You’re going to sleep or eat at some point aren’t you? If so, some kind person will switch your light off. If you are not planning on thinking about it you’ll ride off with no light.

Eat, Sleep, Ride repeat...

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Get one with a sensor if you’re that worried about forgetting. Personally I’d use a dynamo. I don’t think the current to a rear light will make much difference to your charging kit. Better still use an Etrex which doesn’t need charging and keep your phone on airplane mode with a battery pack to top it up. All the juggling of charging off the dynamo wil use a lot more brain power than remembering to switch a light on.

I have a dynamo I may even have a dynamo rear light. I still need to have a second independently powered rear light, same as I'll need a 2nd independently powered front light . I know from past trips that I've entirely forgotten to turn the rear light on, and in one case had the battery die without me realising it, so I'd like a light that lasts as long as possible. Yes 178 hours on a single charge is unlikely, but it's interesting to see what is out there by way of options.

At the time of year of the event I'm planning to ride, there are 9 hours of dark per day. The event has a 7 day 10 hour time limit, meaning that I would need something with 54 hours of life, if I only ran the light at night (I don't know how the plan will work with how much of the night I sleep. 54 hours on a single charge is still more than many lights can do.

You've made some interesting assumptions about my charging setup, and your suggestion of an etrex is also making some other assumptions. An etrex 10 has a battery life of approximately 25 hours, depending on back light. That means it won't last 2 complete days of riding (even if I only cycled in day light), so I'd need to either carry AA batteries, or an AA battery charger... That seems like a whole world of extra faff. And as it happens, it's a whole world of extra faff I have experience having toured with an etrex 10 for many years. It's one of the reasons I went with a Wahoo Elemnt Bolt as my bike GPS. It means I can charge it off my battery pack during food stops, and if it's not raining either of the USB-Werk, or the battery pack. When stopping in a hotel, I am working on the assumption of a single available power socket, which means that with either my 3 way or 4 way usb charger unit, I can charge phone, elemnt bolt, and one other device (possibly a 4th), which would mean I then have to choose between camera, rear lights, front light, and any other devices I have on me. Which is a faff... If I have something that takes AA or AAA batteries, and has a life of at least 90 hours, then worst case half way through the ride I have to change batteries. Once. So I only have to carry a single spare set. It's about minimising what I have to carry, and what I have to do that isn't eat, sleep, ride, repeat. A dynamo rear light still doesn't solve the 2 light problem.

Any other questions about my thought process?

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Seat stay rear lights
« Reply #26 on: 04 February, 2018, 08:46:14 pm »
Any other questions about my thought process?

Yep.  ;)

Do the independently powered lights need to be switched on (at night) or do they just need to be there as a backup? If the latter the front can be pretty much ignored in your power considerations.
For the back I always like to have a second light as you can’t see if ones failed. If you are using a dynamo rear, and I do think that’s sensible, one or two smart R2s will easily do the job. And as long as one light (switched on) is sufficient  to stop you being DQ the smarts will see you though the week just switched on at night and the dynamo will keep you in the game if you forget.
Whilst I have no experience with the Wahoo I have used a Garmin Edge (USB recharge) and now use an Etrex 30. I find bunging in a fresh set of AAs so much easier than sorting out charging when on tour/ audax but, each to their own (and I keep mine on permanently on audax including when I sleep so that I have an accurate overall average speed).

Anywho just my thoughts.

John

Zed43

  • prefers UK hills over Dutch mountains
Re: Seat stay rear lights
« Reply #27 on: 04 February, 2018, 09:08:59 pm »
Eat, Sleep, Ride repeat...
1600km in 7 days = 230km a day on average (keeping the 10 hours in reserve)
13 hours in the saddle leaves 11 hours for eating and sleeping, so you will ride in the dark every day, but not necessarily all that much.

A big (20Ah) USB battery pack, I like the Xiaomi V2 one, and/or a wall charger with even more than 4 ports may be sufficient to keep everything charged. Yes, you may want to write down a todo-list (laminate it, wear it around your neck ;-)) that you follow every time you stop at a hotel and maybe even restaurant to keep the faff efficient. But such a list is probably a good idea anyway, lest you forget to wash your shorts right away, forget to fill your flasks etc.

Personally, when using a dynamo rear light  I would feel comfortable with just having backup rear/front lights (or a head lamp that can act like one) instead of running them in tandem; but agree that when using a battery operated rear light you'll want two running, preferably different types with different run times to avoid riding without a light when the battery dies without you noticing (regardless of the law and race rules, this is about your safety).

Zed43

  • prefers UK hills over Dutch mountains
Re: Seat stay rear lights
« Reply #28 on: 04 February, 2018, 09:13:26 pm »
btw major kudos for doing this / considering this just three months after your first audax!  :thumbsup:

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Seat stay rear lights
« Reply #29 on: 04 February, 2018, 09:17:14 pm »
On the subject of not switching lights off, the failure modes as I see it are:

- Running out of power due to miscalculation or poor battery performance.
- Helpy people switching them off for you when you park your bike somewhere civilised.  I don't think this is much of a problem, as you'll notice when you get back.
- Thieves being attracted to the lit lights.  A minor risk.  Not something I've had a problem with in years of using dynamo lights with standlights.
- Concerned passers-by noticing the lit bike at the roadside in the middle of nowhere (especially if lying in the verge), and either awkwardly interrupting your hedge inspection, or waking you from your power-nap to check that you haven't been hit by a car and, inevitably, requiring a 'yes really' explanation of what you're doing.  Bonus points for language barriers.


From experience of night riding, I think the latter is worth going to the effort of switching your lights off (and generally hiding, or at least making the bike look deliberately 'parked') for.  I wouldn't worry about the others.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Seat stay rear lights
« Reply #30 on: 04 February, 2018, 10:06:25 pm »
Eat, Sleep, Ride repeat...
1600km in 7 days = 230km a day on average (keeping the 10 hours in reserve)
13 hours in the saddle leaves 11 hours for eating and sleeping, so you will ride in the dark every day, but not necessarily all that much.

Aye, that's the theory. But I reckon from the 600km part, until the 1050km part, the best I can hope for is a cross wind, most likely it will be a headwind. It's going to be like doing a long climb, for 400km. Part of that is Afsluitdijk. Which is 32km across the mouth of the Waddenzee. That's the bit I'm dreading more than any other part. There's a cafe half way across, and that's about it. A cross wind with the narrow fietspad means that I'm going to have a fight to keep it within the white lines. A headwind means basically getting on the aerobars and hoping. Tailwind is very unlikely. The prevailing wind is from the South west. This means that while in theory it's a 230km per day to do it in the 7 days, and in theory it's an average speed for the whole thing of 9.6kph. It's not as easy as that. Oh, and then having done 400km up hill into the wind, we then have a short 200km rest before hitting the lumpy bits. Which while none of them are more than 167kph, they tend to be short, sharp, and punchy.

The other major complicating factor is that we have to obey Dutch law. Dutch law prohibits sleeping in public places (I kid you not). So we can only camp on actual campsites (either commercial, or the vrij paalkampen), or sleep in hostels/hotels, which of course we can't book in advance. No cheeky nap in a bus shelter... And of course, you can't book these things in advance...

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A big (20Ah) USB battery pack, I like the Xiaomi V2 one, and/or a wall charger with even more than 4 ports may be sufficient to keep everything charged. Yes, you may want to write down a todo-list (laminate it, wear it around your neck ;-)) that you follow every time you stop at a hotel and maybe even restaurant to keep the faff efficient. But such a list is probably a good idea anyway, lest you forget to wash your shorts right away, forget to fill your flasks etc.

I have a 20Ah battery pack currently not too dissimilar to the one you link, I've been using it as a buffer between the USB-Werk, and what ever devices I need to charge.

Your check list idea is a good one, think I'll adopt that.

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Personally, when using a dynamo rear light  I would feel comfortable with just having backup rear/front lights (or a head lamp that can act like one) instead of running them in tandem; but agree that when using a battery operated rear light you'll want two running, preferably different types with different run times to avoid riding without a light when the battery dies without you noticing (regardless of the law and race rules, this is about your safety).

Aye.

btw major kudos for doing this / considering this just three months after your first audax!  :thumbsup:

Eek, I hadn't realised it's basically 3 months from first audax to the start of the race. Eep.

Between now and the race I'm planning to do 3 audax rides (200, 200, 300), plus a 500km off road bike packing holiday (booked it last Autumn). As well as my normal 75km a week commute, plus all the training rides. I managed to wear out the first chain on the new bike in 70 days. It lasted 1287.7km during the winter. I'm hoping the new one lasts a bit longer, but I'm fully expecting to need a new chain before the race, and another one immediately after...

On the subject of not switching lights off, the failure modes as I see it are:

- Running out of power due to miscalculation or poor battery performance.

I would say this is most likely. Miscalculation, poor battery performance, and poor performance due to user not turning them off when not needed, and not factoring this into the power budget.

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- Helpy people switching them off for you when you park your bike somewhere civilised.  I don't think this is much of a problem, as you'll notice when you get back.
- Thieves being attracted to the lit lights.  A minor risk.  Not something I've had a problem with in years of using dynamo lights with standlights.

This is the Netherlands. A bike left unattended, without a lock that weighs at least 10% of the weight of the bike, with a value of ≥10% of the value of the bike will not be there when you get back. Lights left attached to the bike and turned on will either be pinched, or ignored. Walk past centraal station and you'll see lots of bikes with lights left on, noone cares. I'm hoping that any hotel/hostel/campsite I use will have proper bike storage. Any food stop will involve me staying within sight of the bike. Especially in more urban areas.

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- Concerned passers-by noticing the lit bike at the roadside in the middle of nowhere (especially if lying in the verge), and either awkwardly interrupting your hedge inspection, or waking you from your power-nap to check that you haven't been hit by a car and, inevitably, requiring a 'yes really' explanation of what you're doing.  Bonus points for language barriers.

Not had this experience in the Netherlands yet. Have had it in Germany tho. I did have one person pull up next to me on a recent training ride when I was pumping a tyre up, but it's the first time I've had someone stop. Perhaps I'm spending too much time round Amsterdam...

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From experience of night riding, I think the latter is worth going to the effort of switching your lights off (and generally hiding, or at least making the bike look deliberately 'parked') for.  I wouldn't worry about the others.

One of the "nice" things about the Netherlands is that it's flat, you can see for miles. Alas if you can see, you can be seen. On many a training ride I've struggled to find a bush suitable for irrigation purposes that doesn't also include being on display to everyone for several kilometers in every direction. And given recent court cases in .nl following women relieving themselves in public, and the legal precedent thus set, I'm kinda loathe to do anything that is too visible... So yes, that is an argument to turn the lights off, but it's also an argument against lights with a stand light as you have to wait for that to die before scuttling between the only 2 bushes for 100k...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Seat stay rear lights
« Reply #31 on: 04 February, 2018, 10:16:35 pm »
Some rear lights with standlights have a discharge button, though I don't know about the overlap with seatstay mounting.  It's also an easy mod (just add a switch and a low-value resistor to shunt the supercap) iff you can get into them non-destructively.

Front lights usually have an on/off switch, of course.


(Dutch law doesn't sound very audax-friendly.  Neither does the wind.)

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Seat stay rear lights
« Reply #32 on: 04 February, 2018, 10:29:30 pm »
Some rear lights with standlights have a discharge button, though I don't know about the overlap with seatstay mounting.  It's also an easy mod (just add a switch and a low-value resistor to shunt the supercap) iff you can get into them non-destructively.

Front lights usually have an on/off switch, of course.

Get into them non-destructively and maintain their weather resistance, that's the hard part...

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(Dutch law doesn't sound very audax-friendly.  Neither does the wind.)

There are 2 aspects here. Dutch law, How Dutch law is enforced, and how race control interpret Dutch law.

Race manual lists the following:

"4. Riders must follow the Dutch laws at any time.
The rider has to inform himself and make research about the cycling laws in the Netherlands for the
time the event takes place."

So to comply with race rules (likely to be enforced), you have to comply with Dutch laws (unlikely to be enforced by the actual Police).

Yes Dutch law says no sleeping in public. But, the same as you don't get arrested for possession of pot (technically illegal), you also aren't likely to get arrested for taking a nap in public, as long as you meet some basic requirements which come down to: you're white, you didn't put up a tent, you're not obviously homeless, and in the worst case you're ok with packing up and moving on without causing a fuss. So in that respect, taking a nap in an Audax hotel is entirely fine. However, race control have said that sleeping anywhere in public is going to be frowned upon in this event. Which is a pain.

It's also worth noting that Dutch law states a list of reflectors you have to have (front, back, tyres, pedals (plus some others if you've more than 2 wheels, or have a side car)). It also states:

Article 5.9.65
Bicycles may not be provided with more retroreflective provisions than are prescribed or permitted in articles 5.9.51 , 5.9.52 , 5.9.57 and 5.9.57a .

In unrelated news, the race manual says:

"Reflective tape must be applied to crank arms, seat stays and helmet on both sides:"

Gotta love a contradiction...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Seat stay rear lights
« Reply #33 on: 04 February, 2018, 11:25:15 pm »
Helmets mandatory then? (Is this also the case for Dutch audaxen?)

Re: Seat stay rear lights
« Reply #34 on: 04 February, 2018, 11:53:30 pm »

[...] Part of that is Afsluitdijk. Which is 32km across the mouth of the Waddenzee. That's the bit I'm dreading more than any other part. There's a cafe half way across, and that's about it. A cross wind with the narrow fietspad means that I'm going to have a fight to keep it within the white lines. A headwind means basically getting on the aerobars and hoping. Tailwind is very unlikely. The prevailing wind is from the South west.
It is a bit less, 29 km between the huge locks on both ends. But the cafe is not halfway, that is much nearer to the Noord-Holland side than the Frisian bit. There is a petrol station on the artificial island Breezanddijk halfway though.

For some reason, my Afsluitdijk passages have always been much easier than feared beforehand, even with the wrong wind. You are just on a very long straight road, there is not anything to see, except for the four lane motorway, cycling it is so predictable it almost becomes a trance like thing.

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This is the Netherlands. A bike left unattended, without a lock that weighs at least 10% of the weight of the bike, with a value of ≥10% of the value of the bike will not be there when you get back. Lights left attached to the bike and turned on will either be pinched, or ignored. Walk past centraal station and you'll see lots of bikes with lights left on, noone cares. I'm hoping that any hotel/hostel/campsite I use will have proper bike storage. Any food stop will involve me staying within sight of the bike. Especially in more urban areas.
Your reflexes are too tuned to Amsterdam behaviour.

Re: Seat stay rear lights
« Reply #35 on: 04 February, 2018, 11:56:06 pm »
Helmets mandatory then? (Is this also the case for Dutch audaxen?)
AFAIK this depends on what the organizers demand.

Re: Seat stay rear lights
« Reply #36 on: 05 February, 2018, 01:46:23 am »
I've used Smart R1's on seat stays for some time. However, you do need to watch out if it's a wet ride. If water gets into them (which they seem prone to at seat stay level as not protected at all by the mudguard) they can suffer from a switch malfunction which has them permanently on, permanently off, or flashing and not responding to button presses. Sometimes the switch comes back to life when they dry out, but sometimes it doesn't and they end becoming permanently temperamental. It's a great shame since they do quite a nice sociable half-power steady light and come with the nice stay mounts. I now keep mine in the saddle bag as a spare light where they won't get wet  :facepalm:

Not sure if you're aware of this- but beware of having 2 stay mounted lights turned on at the same time on opposite stays at the same height. It makes you look like a car way off in the distance and some folk believe can therefore put you in danger of a driver not realising they are coming up right behind you.

 I've experienced this once as a driver, and the effect was quite disconcerting. As I got closer other reflectives on the cyclist and bike became visible, but it had looked like a car miles away initially.

Re: Seat stay rear lights
« Reply #37 on: 05 February, 2018, 10:15:36 am »
My set-up FWIW - which seems to me to meet the OP's requirements.

Dynamo Secula + two Smart R1 (one on each seat stay) - and they are all mounted at different heights.
The waterproofness of the Smarts can be improved with a wrap of electrical insulating tape around the join.   For longer events the usual Eneloop rechargeables are swopped out for non-rechargeable lithiums.  A small elastic band can improve the security of the mount.

For additional peace of mind you could carry a third one (with batteries) in a sealed poly bag in your luggage - very few extra ounces, and only takes a few seconds to put into the existing mount in the case of a failure.

Zed43

  • prefers UK hills over Dutch mountains
Re: Seat stay rear lights
« Reply #38 on: 05 February, 2018, 10:38:53 am »
Helmets mandatory then? (Is this also the case for Dutch audaxen?)
Not required by Dutch law, not required for audax organized by randonneurs.nl (although they do recommend using one).

Quite frankly, if race control is going to be that strict and demanding as Julia describes, it would spoil the fun enough for me to consider participating (I was already frowning at the 100 euro entry fee for what is being offered).

On the subject of De Afsluitdijk, I have cycled it once and it is incredibly boring... (I was saved by the fact that it was the first time I rode in a continually rotating echolon, I needed all my wits to be safe ;-)) AFAIK there is nothing in Dutch law to prevent you from using headphones on your bike, and De Afsluitdijk is prime territory for using them (even if you normally frown upon using them on the bike).

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Seat stay rear lights
« Reply #39 on: 05 February, 2018, 10:45:44 am »
Helmets mandatory then? (Is this also the case for Dutch audaxen?)
Not required by Dutch law, not required for audax organized by randonneurs.nl (although they do recommend using one).

Dutch bike law:

http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0025798/2018-01-01

Section 5.9 is what you want. Google translate does a good job of this page.

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Quite frankly, if race control is going to be that strict and demanding as Julia describes, it would spoil the fun enough for me to consider participating (I was already frowning at the 100 euro entry fee for what is being offered).

I don't know how strict they will be, I don't want to risk riding 1600km to get disqualified. Hence I want to make sure I obey the rules.

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On the subject of De Afsluitdijk, I have cycled it once and it is incredibly boring... (I was saved by the fact that it was the first time I rode in a continually rotating echolon, I needed all my wits to be safe ;-)) AFAIK there is nothing in Dutch law to prevent you from using headphones on your bike, and De Afsluitdijk is prime territory for using them (even if you normally frown upon using them on the bike).

I always cycle with headphones on. Maybe I'll save an audiobook for that leg of the trip...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Seat stay rear lights
« Reply #40 on: 05 February, 2018, 12:16:15 pm »
Helmets mandatory then? (Is this also the case for Dutch audaxen?)
Not required by Dutch law, not required for audax organized by randonneurs.nl (although they do recommend using one).

Yeah, I meant whether Randonneurs.nl have it as a requirement à la RUSA; I can only imagine how a national helmet law would be treated!

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Quite frankly, if race control is going to be that strict and demanding as Julia describes, it would spoil the fun enough for me to consider participating (I was already frowning at the 100 euro entry fee for what is being offered).

It does all seem a bit picky (though presumably they have to be because they're running a race, not an excursion on the public highway &c.?)


Dutch bike law:

http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0025798/2018-01-01

Section 5.9 is what you want. Google translate does a good job of this page.


Hartelijk bedankt! Interesting that wrt reflectives there's no reference to rain or darkness; the requirements for pedal reflectors, read together with §5.9.46, make it look like (most) SPD pedals are technically illegal at all times. (Are lights covered anywhere else? The 'verlichting' section only seems to mandate reflectives.) OTOH, given that many Dutch student bikes will fail the requirements of §5.9.3, it's not like anyone really enforces the laws...

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Seat stay rear lights
« Reply #41 on: 05 February, 2018, 01:31:20 pm »
Yeah, I meant whether Randonneurs.nl have it as a requirement à la RUSA; I can only imagine how a national helmet law would be treated!

A national helmet law, or national hivi law in the Netherlands would result in riots in the street. The only thing likely to cause bigger riots would be if you interrupted the national supply of stroopwaffels...

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Quite frankly, if race control is going to be that strict and demanding as Julia describes, it would spoil the fun enough for me to consider participating (I was already frowning at the 100 euro entry fee for what is being offered).

It does all seem a bit picky (though presumably they have to be because they're running a race, not an excursion on the public highway &c.?)

The section in the RatN rules on reflectors is almost word for word the same as that for IPWR. I'm guessing that within 2-3 years it will be the defacto standard for all ultra races. Even tho it doesn't necessary comply with the actual law of the land in every country.

I'm trying to find some nice reflective tape to put on the seat stays that reflects orange, but appears to be black when not lit, and orange/black for the cranks. I've found it for white, but not for colours.

I have mixed feelings about such things the whole hivi thing to me always feels like victim blaming, why should the vulnerable be needing to protect ourselves from the powerful, surely the powerful have the responsibility to protect the vulnerable. But that's going way off topic for this thread.

I want to do this race, the race rules aren't entirely unreasonable, I'll try to obey them as far as the laws of physics allow.

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Dutch bike law:

http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0025798/2018-01-01

Section 5.9 is what you want. Google translate does a good job of this page.


Hartelijk bedankt! Interesting that wrt reflectives there's no reference to rain or darkness; the requirements for pedal reflectors, read together with §5.9.46, make it look like (most) SPD pedals are technically illegal at all times. (Are lights covered anywhere else? The 'verlichting' section only seems to mandate reflectives.) OTOH, given that many Dutch student bikes will fail the requirements of §5.9.3, it's not like anyone really enforces the laws...

Alstublieft.

Yes most SPD pedals are illegal in .nl, by the letter of the law. Same as they are illegal in .uk, and .de. By the letter of the law. But noone's going to nick you for it unless you're being an obnoxious moron and they just want an excuse to cause trouble.

I'm pretty sure that 99% of Dutch bikes do not comply 100% with Dutch law for bikes. I'm also 100% certain the police don't give a fsck about it.

Note that there is no legal requirement for a mudguard (explicitely specified), yet 5.9.54:

"The red retro-reflector must be fitted:
a. for bicycles with one rear wheel between the luggage carrier and the mudguard, or in the absence of a luggage carrier on the mudguard at a height of not less than 0.35 m and not more than 0.90 m above the road surface, or below the saddle;"

I like that it takes into account the absence of a luggage rack, but not the absence of a luggage rack and a mudguard.

Until a few years back the requirement was that the bottom x cm of the rear mudguard must be white, because retroreflectors didn't exist when the law was originally written, so it's at least useful that they modernised that bit...

IIRC, Dutch law says that the rear reflector/light has to be 0.35m-0.9m, German law says ≤0.6m, and UK law says 0.35m - 1.5m...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Seat stay rear lights
« Reply #42 on: 05 February, 2018, 01:51:54 pm »
Hartelijk bedankt! Interesting that wrt reflectives there's no reference to rain or darkness; the requirements for pedal reflectors, read together with §5.9.46, make it look like (most) SPD pedals are technically illegal at all times. (Are lights covered anywhere else? The 'verlichting' section only seems to mandate reflectives.) OTOH, given that many Dutch student bikes will fail the requirements of §5.9.3, it's not like anyone really enforces the laws...

Lights are covered in RVV Article 35:

http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0004825/2017-07-01

Specifically (according to google translate):

"Article 35
1 Cyclists perform during the night or during the day when visibility is seriously obstructed, lighting according to the second to fourth paragraphs.
2 A two-wheeled bicycle and a three-wheeled bicycle with one front wheel shall be fitted with a white or yellow light which is fed at the front, unless the driver applies a white or yellow light to his chest.
3 On a bicycle on more than two wheels with two front wheels, two white or two yellow lights symmetrically mounted at the left and right of the center must be fitted at the front.
4 A bicycle must be fitted with a red tail light that is carried at the rear, unless the driver or a passenger seated behind the driver puts a red light on his back.
5 A bicycle may be provided with two amber yellow light-emitting direction indicators at the front and two at the rear.
6 No more lights may be carried on a bicycle, by its driver or by a passenger seated behind the driver than the lights specified in paragraphs 2 to 5."

So it looks like: 1 white/yellow at the front, 1 red at the rear, NOT FLASHING, and nothing extra...

Not that anyone would actually fine you for having more lights as long as you're not being obnoxious...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Samuel D

Re: Seat stay rear lights
« Reply #43 on: 05 February, 2018, 04:16:39 pm »
My own view is that more than one lamp is obnoxious. Besides, good rear lamps have reflectors, so if the lamp fails no-one is going to run into you anyway. My mother rode for decades with no rear lamp but only a reflector, back before it was cool to be paranoid.

Re: Seat stay rear lights
« Reply #44 on: 05 February, 2018, 10:13:36 pm »
My own view is that more than one lamp is obnoxious. Besides, good rear lamps have reflectors, so if the lamp fails no-one is going to run into you anyway. My mother rode for decades with no rear lamp but only a reflector, back before it was cool to be paranoid.

As much as I'd like to agree I've found that obnoxious lighting does have it's merits, especially on multi lane roundabouts where many motorists aren't really sure what lane they should be in. 
Most of the stuff I say is true because I saw it in a dream and I don't have the presence of mind to make up lies when I'm asleep.   Bryan Andreas

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Seat stay rear lights
« Reply #45 on: 22 February, 2018, 08:31:08 pm »

An update.

I ordered a pair of B&M Secular lights. One is Dynamo, and one is battery. The Dynamo one is mounted to the left seat stay, and the battery one to the right seat stay. These are in addition to the cat eye TL-LD570-R on the seat tube below the saddle bag. I doubt I'll drive all three at once, but it gives me options for lighting depending on what I'm doing.

All three lights also feature built in reflectors as well.

I'm going to attempt a 200km audax on Saturday, so I'll test them out there. I've left the cable the full length it came in for now until I'm certain about how I want to run it. Slightly annoyingly, tho I can't quite get the angle right on the dynamo one (90° to the ground), but I can on the battery one. I'm not sure why, I'm guessing there's some tiny difference in the shape.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/