In praise of cycle lanes?

[ian]

I'd agree that there's not really much pavement cycling – there's not much any cycling – and it falls into two categories – avoidance of scary roads and shit-poor facilities and cases of wayward youth doing what wayward youth does. Not that I'd encourage it and it can certainly be antisocial and sadly a lot of cyclists are simply dicks, but it's a bit of a red herring. Motor vehicles drive on the pavement all the time and actually do kill and injure many pedestrians. And of course, some pavements you can cycle on, which makes no sense if it's so dangerous. Croydon's superb cross-town route, for instance directs the happy local cyclist (there's only one) through the crowded pedestrian centre. That said, they let delivery lorries drive through it too (I'm not sure why, all the shops seem to have rear access).

[ScumOfTheRoad]

Phil W and Quizotic Geek mention the path has to have a good surface, and not be covered in ice in winter.

In the Netherlands I can confirm that following snowfall this winter, the bicycle paths were cleared of snow in the wee small hours.
I ventured out at around 7am one weekend when there had been a snowfall, and the cycle paths were all cleared by what I think are the little service vehicles which the local council uses on the paths.
The interesting thing is that the cycle paths were all cleared, before the roads were touched!
And this was no haphazard badly done job - all cleared of snow and ready to ride on.

One other thing which stops cycle paths being ghettoes is priority at side roads and around roundabouts.
Dutch drivers are trained to look out for cyclists during their lessons, and are cyclcist anyway. The cycle paths continue straight across side roads, where the 'Give Way' lines are set back.
Cars will awlays wait on the main road as you cycle across a side road. Try that in the UK  - instant SMIDSY

Also on roundabouts, you might go round the roundabout on a separate lane, but once on there you are judged to be part of the traffic. So you just sail pn and expect the cars entering the roundabout to give way, which they do. Again try that in the UK...

[Pingu]

[Manotea]

What freaked me out touring last summer (I think ths was in Germany...) was being on a cycle lane which crossed a road and CARS GIVING WAY FOR ME!

My instinctive reaction was that they were trying to lure me out into the middle of the road so they could mow me down...

Switzerland had similer cyclepaths but the Swiss drivers seemed to rather ignore cyclists, i.e., pretended I was not present and occupying a piece of road space. Not impressed...

[Robh]

Quite. I have yet to see sign that reads 'Motorists get out and push'.

[Cudzoziemiec]

One other thing which stops cycle paths being ghettoes is priority at side roads and around roundabouts.
Dutch drivers are trained to look out for cyclists during their lessons, and are cyclcist anyway. The cycle paths continue straight across side roads, where the 'Give Way' lines are set back.
Cars will awlays wait on the main road as you cycle across a side road. Try that in the UK  - instant SMIDSY

It does work in a few places, for instance here in the suburbs of N. Bristol:
https://goo.gl/maps/ctWLzrMtWYJ2

But it would certainly help if it was a general principle rather than an occasional solution. Also, if cycle lanes had proper traffic lights that you can see from a distance and that change as you approach, rather than having to press a button and squint sideways to look at a little light mounted perpendicularly to your direction of approach.

[DuncanM]

Proper bike paths are glorious, and currently the only way that my wife/daughter can ride their bikes to get somewhere at the moment (lack of experience/skill/confidence/discipline). 

Sadly, even somewhere as bike friendly as Oxford, while there are a number of really good ones, they tend to end where the road layout means that cars would be inconvenienced, meaning you get dumped into the traffic at just the time when you need the most help. For example - we could get halfway to my daughter's school (or indeed to my wife's school) using the paths and a couple of quiet roads, but then we would have to ride a mile or so on super busy road with no cycle provision beyond some faded paint. An integrated system, with common journeys catered for from start to end would make a massive difference for inexperienced cyclists. Hell, I would even use them if they had priority over crossing vehicular traffic (repeated braking and accelerating means that for me riding the road is just so much less hassle). Sadly, improvements seem to take for ever and cost a fortune, so the chances of such a useful network existing are vanishingly small.

[ian]

Well, one of the significant problems (beyond poor design, no money, and a lack of will) is timidity. Most councils generally don't dare to do anything that riles the self-appointed driving lobby (which in most cases is really just a few loud voices). Or they'll hide it behind a 'consultation' which is effectively giving motorists a veto.

So they purport the myth of 'shared priority' with is bollocks, of course and means motor vehicles always end up with priority. So even the most perfect cycle lane will eventually end in snarling junction or a 'cyclist dismount' sign. People aren't going to cycle unless they can from A to B in perceived safety and comfort. This of course simply wastes money on facilities that are ultimately unusable.

I think, tbh, none of this should be about cycling. It needs a holistic view – the benefits to everyone of moving away from car-centric towns. It happened in the Netherlands because they got tired of scraping their kids off the road. In Britain, it seems, most parents are OK to lose the occasional child provided they can still drive to Tesco.

[mattc]

"shared priority"? Yep.

There is a bike-path along the B4017 south of Abingdon. It's not great, but it's slightly more pleasant than the road if you're not in a hurry. You get massive grief from drivers if you do ride on the road*. So last year they built some new houses - you can see them in progress on the sat pic below. Can you guess how they "shared priority" where drivers cross the cycle lane to get onto the main road?

[sorry, no prizes]

https://goo.gl/maps/SfsrXztWAQD2


*I took great pleasure riding down there to the tip with my trailer once 

[Kim]

Can you guess how they "shared priority" where drivers cross the cycle lane to get onto the main road?

I'm guessing something in blue...

[lahoski]

"shared priority"? Yep.

There is a bike-path along the B4017 south of Abingdon. It's not great, but it's slightly more pleasant than the road if you're not in a hurry. You get massive grief from drivers if you do ride on the road*. So last year they built some new houses - you can see them in progress on the sat pic below. Can you guess how they "shared priority" where drivers cross the cycle lane to get onto the main road?

[sorry, no prizes]

https://goo.gl/maps/SfsrXztWAQD2


*I took great pleasure riding down there to the tip with my trailer once 

The best bit was the bus shelter that appeared about a year ago, almost entirely blocking the shared use path. I think it lasted less than a week before they removed it again.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Is "shared priority" the same as "shared space" as in, most famously, Poynton in the Midlands and Exhibition Rd in London? That is, in theory at least, a non-delineated space with no areas marked out for different user types, no kerbs, etc?

[ian]

Shared priority might be the wrong phrase, but basically they treat cars, articulated lorries, cyclists, and pedestrians as some kind of equal. Except they don't, because really they're asking everyone else to share with motor vehicles, which will default to priority. Which is why you have to wait. It's just bullshit where they pretend to think all the users of the road and then go and design something solely for motorists.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Yes I get that but I'm not sure whether you're talking about the Exhibition Rd style situation or something new, perhaps specific to junctions, which I haven't yet encountered. There are many ways of claiming theoretical equality while denying it in practice!

[ian]

It's just one hundred and one ways to give traffic priority. I supposed Exhibition Road is a good example. You can pretend everyone is equal and stroll down the middle until a speeding taxi hits you. At which point you'll discover how unequal the situation actually is.

[frankly frankie]

I pass through Poynton a few times per week, often in a car, sometimes walking.  In a car the whole concept is just nightmarish as everyone creeps around in scared-rabbit mode.  Any 4-way junction big or small is a recipe for paralysis as no-one has priority and for some reason everyone forgets to signal (me included), too busy trying to second-guess what the three other guys are about to do.  The A-road through the middle of the 'village' is quite a busy main road and the tailbacks can get quite long.  Still, in a car I have great delight in driving across sections of pavement, since pedestrians have equal priority everywhere, then so do I, right?
The only winners are those watching on from one of the many pavement cafes.  If Poynton is supposed to be a test case for some Utopian ideal, it's a dismal failure, unless Utopia involves sitting in the sun drinking coffee all day.

[giropaul]

https://www.facebook.com/Materiaalzone/posts/867256843485246