Super-Twat

[ian]

That's one of the things about cancel culture, both sides are really keen on it, some to the extent that they're willing to cancel themselves to make the point.

[Polar Bear]

Yes, it's an odd one.  Angry people want to stop others having a voice whilst simultaneously calling out the cancel culture of their opponents.   Eh?

YouTube in particular is rife with angry right wing vloggers being vile and hateful and demanding that left wingers shut the f**k up.  The very concept of freedom of expression seems to completely pass them by.   They also seem to forget in their haste to criticise the very same social media platforms where they spew their bile that those same platforms give them the opportunity to do just that.  How bizarre.

[ian]

As far as I can tell, both sides of the fabled 'culture war' – even if they decry it – are eagerly queued up outside the recruitment centre to fight it.

I was reading something about Graham Linehan the other day, basically, a successful bloke who had everything, but has gone completely mental over what was apparently one issue (that doesn't even seem to have any impact on him). I'm not sure what's wrong with any of these people.

[Redlight]

London Mayoral candidate, Shaun Bailey - who already has form in tweeting 'misleading' statements about the incumbent's record on policing - seeing the likely murder of a missing woman as an opportunity to score some cheap points:

https://twitter.com/ShaunBaileyUK/status/1369662807759847430

[citoyen]

London Mayoral candidate, Shaun Bailey - who already has form in tweeting 'misleading' statements about the incumbent's record on policing - seeing the likely murder of a missing woman as an opportunity to score some cheap points:

https://twitter.com/ShaunBaileyUK/status/1369662807759847430

I think Michael Legge's reply sums it up nicely.

[Jurek]

London Mayoral candidate, Shaun Bailey - who already has form in tweeting 'misleading' statements about the incumbent's record on policing - seeing the likely murder of a missing woman as an opportunity to score some cheap points:

https://twitter.com/ShaunBaileyUK/status/1369662807759847430

Can it get much lower than that?

[Beardy]

London Mayoral candidate, Shaun Bailey - who already has form in tweeting 'misleading' statements about the incumbent's record on policing - seeing the likely murder of a missing woman as an opportunity to score some cheap points:

https://twitter.com/ShaunBaileyUK/status/1369662807759847430

Simple question. How? How is he going to ensure the safety of women and girls. Without the detail, it’s just posturing.

[andrewc]

Nadine Dorries, nurses will accept a 1% pay rise as their husbands will be supporting them.


Angela Rayner, awful interview in which she refused to say nurses should get the 5% that Labour campaigned for in 2019.

[Mr Larrington]

London Mayoral candidate, Shaun Bailey - who already has form in tweeting 'misleading' statements about the incumbent's record on policing - seeing the likely murder of a missing woman as an opportunity to score some cheap points:

https://twitter.com/ShaunBaileyUK/status/1369662807759847430

Yes, Shaun.  What a bastard that Sadiq Khan is with, actively working to make the streets more dangerous for women.  Go the the top of the class, and jump off.

Nadine Dorries, nurses will accept a 1% pay rise as their husbands will be supporting them.

Quelle surprise, Mad Nad opens mouth and inserts foot again.

[ian]

London Mayoral candidate, Shaun Bailey - who already has form in tweeting 'misleading' statements about the incumbent's record on policing - seeing the likely murder of a missing woman as an opportunity to score some cheap points:

https://twitter.com/ShaunBaileyUK/status/1369662807759847430

Can it get much lower than that?

Don't encourage him.

It's worth remembering, that while it's obviously an utterly awful thing and offering no consolation, being murdered by a stranger is an extremely rare event.

There are bigger social issues, of course, about how men treat women (and each other, much of this is rooted in a pandemic of male violence). I can't imagine Shaun's opinions on this are any more enlightened. There seem to be a lot of people rushing in to a young woman's murder as a tool to make their points. Not exactly endearing, whatever the point may be.

[Polar Bear]

I think that I have worked out how innocently nice Mr. Bailey might think that he could in fact make the streets safer.  Just get rid of the police completely then they won't be there to kidnap and murder women.  Allegedly.

At what point do these people actually stop and think about what they have put out there?

[Davef]

There was someone on the radio yesterday saying that men are twice as likely to be murdered in a public place by a stranger than women are.

If you are female you are most likely to be murdered by your spouse in your own home.

[Regulator]

London Mayoral candidate, Shaun Bailey - who already has form in tweeting 'misleading' statements about the incumbent's record on policing - seeing the likely murder of a missing woman as an opportunity to score some cheap points:

https://twitter.com/ShaunBaileyUK/status/1369662807759847430

Can it get much lower than that?

Well, given that Shaun Bailey is racist, homophobic Tory scum...   yes.

[ian]

There was someone on the radio yesterday saying that men are twice as likely to be murdered in a public place by a stranger than women are.

If you are female you are most likely to be murdered by your spouse in your own home.

I find all these arguments disingenuously annoying – yes, as a man you're likely to be murdered, but then violence is strongly correlated with being male (it's safe to say the main cause of violence is having a Y chromosome) – but I'm not clear what this has to do with women being able to walk home safely (and as cyclists, we ought more than anyone to appreciate the perception of safety).

It's all a bit depressing really.

[Mr Larrington]

Bailey is living, breathing proof that “Gammon” is not a racist epithet.

[mrcharly-YHT]

"Fair play for women" (don't bother googling, they are just another terf organisation)

Why am I nominating them for the S-T award?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56338666

[Davef]

There was someone on the radio yesterday saying that men are twice as likely to be murdered in a public place by a stranger than women are.

If you are female you are most likely to be murdered by your spouse in your own home.

I find all these arguments disingenuously annoying – yes, as a man you're likely to be murdered, but then violence is strongly correlated with being male (it's safe to say the main cause of violence is having a Y chromosome) – but I'm not clear what this has to do with women being able to walk home safely (and as cyclists, we ought more than anyone to appreciate the perception of safety).

It's all a bit depressing really.

The point was being made by a woman speaking for women, suggesting there was no need for women to be more afraid than men as they are statistically less likely to be attacked.

Society has conditioned women to be afraid and I realise as a parent I have perpetuated this.

[ian]

Yes, but I think that's wrong. It's a similar argument often made in these parts about cycling. Come on, toughen up, statistically you won't die. A perception of danger is a real, real thing. As a man, I can stagger home from the train station at midnight without thinking much about it. My wife has to get a taxi.

[Polar Bear]

I don't know the actual statistical breakdown but I am willing to speculate that a significant proportion of male victims are due to gang violence, drug wars, willy waving, etc.* and the perp is most likely to be male.  When it comes to female victims I'm guessing that harassment and sexual motives are the more prevalent causes and the perp is still most likely to be male.


*  i.e  testosterone-fuelled aggression and stupidity

[ian]

I don't know the actual statistical breakdown but I am willing to speculate that a significant proportion of male victims are due to gang violence, drug wars, willy waving, etc.* and the perp is most likely to be male.  When it comes to female victims I'm guessing that harassment and sexual motives are the more prevalent causes and the perp is still most likely to be male.


*  i.e  testosterone-fuelled aggression and stupidity

That was, in a roundabout way, the point I was trying to make (a particular response to the 'more dangerous if you're a man' comment). I don't know any woman who feels safe walking alone at night and it's not because they're in fear of other women. That's pretty fucking awful.

And we shouldn't (and I know it's not your intention) excuse male behaviour with it being 'testosterone-fuelled.' They should be capable of controlling themselves, women don't go round stabbing one another in a oestrogen-fuelled rages.

[TimC]

Saying that men 'should be capable of controlling themselves' would appear to be a waste of time, as those men likely to physically abuse or murder women are unlikely to be persuaded by such an appeal. I'm not sure what the answer is beyond more and better education, but that's hardly a quick fix.

[ian]

Saying that men 'should be capable of controlling themselves' would appear to be a waste of time, as those men likely to physically abuse or murder women are unlikely to be persuaded by such an appeal. I'm not sure what the answer is beyond more and better education, but that's hardly a quick fix.

Yes, but if they're just beasts incapable of controlling their violent masculine urges, then perhaps they shouldn't be out in society to begin with. And it's not really true, since most men are quite capable of not bashing one another and anyone else over the head. Of course, some people will be violent regardless, which I get, and I think this is an outlier (as I said). But there's a legitimate and wider problem and I don't think just saying it's 'worse for men' really answers that.

The causes of male violence are, I believe, are mostly cultural and almost certainly, the causes of harassment are.

Difficult issues unlikely to be fixed by people calling each other names on Twitter for sure. I've also probably fallen into my own trap of using a young woman's death to make a point.

[TimC]

Trouble is, I think that it's more than just cultural - I'm not aware of any nation that can genuinely claim that male violence, intimidation and harassment of women doesn't happen, and although there is an ever-increasing homogeneity of worldwide culture, I'm not sure it's that ubiquitous yet. Education and culture can - and probably already does, if patently not enough - apply brakes to the testosterone-fuelled nature of men, but I doubt it'll ever be eliminated that way.

That sounds like I'm giving up on education as a tool, but I'm not. I just despair at the recalcitrance of the issue and how it poisons at some level almost all interactions between unfamiliar men and women.

[Mr Larrington]

Meanwhile, a man who thinks that Six Nations Rugby’s new deal with CVC means

[…] moving the Championship off free-to-air TV in order to maximise revenue is not a foregone conclusion

My name is Ben Morel and I'm a Super-Twat!

[ian]

Trouble is, I think that it's more than just cultural - I'm not aware of any nation that can genuinely claim that male violence, intimidation and harassment of women doesn't happen, and although there is an ever-increasing homogeneity of worldwide culture, I'm not sure it's that ubiquitous yet. Education and culture can - and probably already does, if patently not enough - apply brakes to the testosterone-fuelled nature of men, but I doubt it'll ever be eliminated that way.

That sounds like I'm giving up on education as a tool, but I'm not. I just despair at the recalcitrance of the issue and how it poisons at some level almost all interactions between unfamiliar men and women.

This could be an outbreak of people not arguing on the internet, but I agree. And in some ways attitudes have got better, just not nearly better enough. I think it's still too often culturally acceptable for men to be a bit fighty. Boys will be boys and all that. But certainly, casual harassment should be a firm no-no.