Super-Twat

[Polar Bear]

According to Coffey homes were flooded because the rain came from the wrong direction, the east.  Yes, she did say this.   Seriously.

[nicknack]

We have an unfindable leak in our roof which causes a puddle on our kitchen worktop. But only when the wind is from the east or north and it's really pissing down.

[hbunnet]

A quote of some sort would help to know what you're both talking about.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-67211366

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

We have an unfindable leak in our roof which causes a puddle on our kitchen worktop. But only when the wind is from the east or north and it's really pissing down.

Have you checked your ridge tiles?

[nicknack]

We have an unfindable leak in our roof which causes a puddle on our kitchen worktop. But only when the wind is from the east or north and it's really pissing down.

Have you checked your ridge tiles?

Yup. The kitchen roof is actually a new fibreglass flat one that is completely solid. The water's coming in from a pitched roof a couple of metres distant. We've had roofers round to try and sort the problem but with no success so far.

[nicknack]

We have an unfindable leak in our roof which causes a puddle on our kitchen worktop. But only when the wind is from the east or north and it's really pissing down.

Have you checked your ridge tiles?

Yup. The kitchen roof is actually a new fibreglass flat one that is completely solid. The water's coming in from a pitched roof a couple of metres distant. We've had roofers round to try and sort the problem but with no success so far.

Pour dye on the roof at various points until you find it.
Then rip the whole lot off and replace the now rotten timbers

[mrcharly-YHT]

According to Coffey homes were flooded because the rain came from the wrong direction, the east.  Yes, she did say this.   Seriously.

I loath coffey, but that isn't quite what she said, and I understand the issue that she explained (badly).

She said we aren't as good at modelling flooding when the rain comes in from the east.

That's because most of the flooding (that affects derbyshire, yorkshire etc) happens when we get major rainfall in the western/central watersheds. So there is a lot of modelling of that, and flow meters on those rivers.

But this rain fell when the winds blew from the east, so it was first landing on eastern watersheds (which normally just have a short journey to the sea).

Sufficient rain, sodden ground =  floods. But not so many models or meters for it.

[ElyDave]

I expect Strong Drink is required to find Coffey in any way palatable.  And lots of it.

A quadruple espresso?

[ElyDave]

A new squirrel has arrived in my trees.🤬
This definitely counts .....

Are squirrels not supposed to be in trees?

[Beardy]

It’s known hereabouts by those that know that when the wind is in the east coincides with a spring tide and the weather rains in a biblical fashion, that floods will be most likely. We have flood barriers for when such coincide as they do often enough for,barriers to,be required to stop the floods.

[Mr Larrington]

Something something 1953 floods mumble…

[Mr Larrington]

Onoz! by Mr Larrington, on Flickr

[Regulator]

Thérèse "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows" Coffey

No difficulty in putting Thérèse in the "Super_Twat" category, but what she actually said was not unreasonable. She is a qualified scientist in combination with being a Super-Twat.

Yes it is.  The direction from which rain comes is irrelevant when it comes to flood defences. 

[Regulator]

Yes it is.  The direction from which rain comes is irrelevant when it comes to flood defences.



The direction of rain here is relevant to flood defences, they do not need to be deployed on north rain as it falls the otherside of the hill and doesn't flood the valley on the high tide

The impacts of which side of a hill rain falls affects relatively few catchments.  It's not an issue in large parts of the UK (such as the area I live in).

And if we're talking about proper structural flood defences then it is irrelevant, as any issues should have been taken into account in constructing the defence.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

One of the technical aspects of analysing flooding is 'time of concentration'. Basically, if a drop of rain falls at the furthest point of the catchment, how long does it take to flow to the point you are interested in? Repeat that process at every location within the catchment and work out when the greatest volume of water occurs at the point you are interested in, but it isn't that simple.

You need to consider how rain actually falls. Storms do not drop all their rain everywhere at the same time and at the same intensity throughout the storm. Intensity varies depending on duration. Typically, storms start out with heavy rain which tails off in some way. Short storms can deliver rain faster than long storms; think cloudburst vs. drizzle. You usually do this analysis from records of actual storms.

If the storm moves from the far end of the catchment towards the point you are interested in, the accumulated water arrives in a shorter period than if the storm moved from the point you are interested in towards the far end of the catchment. A shorter period will usually worsen flooding.

You calibrate your catchment model by comparing historical storm events with recorded flood levels, adjusted for changes in runoff and water detention (more concrete/ asphalt, deforestation, etc.) over time.

[Regulator]

One of the technical aspects of analysing flooding is 'time of concentration'. Basically, if a drop of rain falls at the furthest point of the catchment, how long does it take to flow to the point you are interested in? Repeat that process at every location within the catchment and work out when the greatest volume of water occurs at the point you are interested in, but it isn't that simple.

You need to consider how rain actually falls. Storms do not drop all their rain everywhere at the same time and at the same intensity throughout the storm. Intensity varies depending on duration. Typically, storms start out with heavy rain which tails off in some way. Short storms can deliver rain faster than long storms; think cloudburst vs. drizzle. You usually do this analysis from records of actual storms.

If the storm moves from the far end of the catchment towards the point you are interested in, the accumulated water arrives in a shorter period than if the storm moved from the point you are interested towards the far end of the catchment. A shorter period will usually worsen flooding.

You calibrate your catchment model by comparing historical storm events with recorded flood levels, adjusted for changes in runoff and water detention (more concrete/ asphalt, deforestation, etc.) over time.

As you say, it's far more complex than simply the direction the rain is coming from...

The reality is, Coffey is trying to excuse long term chronic underfunding of proper flood defences, in part driven by the climate changing loons in her party.  The woman is one of the most callous, negligent and incompetent ministers in history (and don't forget this is the party that made Dorries a minister).

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Some of the most efficient methods of flood defence is controlling land development within the catchment or creating opportunities for localised upstream detention, rather than just building flood walls which reduce the time of concentration and tend to increase flood height and increase flooding downstream. Politicians tend to prefer visually impressive projects (e.g. river dredging) that garner votes though.

[Regulator]

Some of the most efficient methods of flood defence is controlling land development within the catchment

Not helped when politicians from all parties are attacking the green belt...  We are facing having huge swathes of our local greenbelt, including a number of flood plains, being concreted over for major infrastructure (railway) and vanity (guided busway) projects - despite in both cases there being less environmentally damaging/cheaper options available.

or creating opportunities for localised upstream detention, rather than just building flood walls which just reduce the time of concentration and tend to increase flood height and increase flooding downstream. Politicians tend to prefer visually impressive projects (e.g. river dredging) that garners votes though.

I say bring back beavers!

[mrcharly-YHT]

Thérèse "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows" Coffey

No difficulty in putting Thérèse in the "Super_Twat" category, but what she actually said was not unreasonable. She is a qualified scientist in combination with being a Super-Twat.

Yes it is.  The direction from which rain comes is irrelevant when it comes to flood defences.

Wrong, for the reasons more eloquently explained by LWAB than I.

The direction has a huge impact.

Even in the Cambridge area.

[Regulator]

We also do regularly get rain from the east in the UK, particularly at this time of the year, according to the Met Office. 

[citoyen]

Whether or not there is any shred of truth in what she said, it is clear that Coffey is indeed simply trying to deflect attention from the many failings of her government (and previous governments, to be fair) with reckless over-development surely being the primary cause of flooding in areas where there was no flooding before (not just on flood plains - deforestation on higher ground also has an impact), exacerbated by chronic under-investment in infrastructure such as sewers/drainage and flood defences, and further exacerbated by the increasing occurrence of freak weather events due to climate change, which her government are determined to accelerate with their anti-green agenda.

So yeah, she's still a super-twat.

[JonBuoy]

Wales does a reasonable job of protecting the Midlands from soggy westerlies.  The Lincolnshire Wolds, Fens etc don't work so well for easterlies.

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

Something something 1953 floods mumble…

I'd heard it was a wind from the westerly sector that was to blame.  The tidal gates for the North sea are the Dover Straits in the south and the Pentland Firth in the North.  The strong westerlies trapped the flood tide and then when the next flood occurred the water rose further as a result.

In NE Essex we got some exceptional winter tides during the 80s, but the flood defences did their job - mostly.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Climate change means greater storm frequencies and intensities than seen historically. Flood defences based on historical data are often inadequate in the face of more frequent storms (saturated soil has almost 100% runoff) and more intense rainfall (rainfall volume during storm). Flood defences will inevitably fail more often than designed, even without changes in land management/ development.

[Polar Bear]

Out of curiosity I was wondering where storm Babet originated and as expected it was from the Atlantic.  Now, this of course does not mean that the rain came from the west but it would surely fit in to the majority of data gathering that the Met Office and others will have done over decades monitoring and recording such weather events.  There will have been many such events which come in from the west but by the very spiral nature of these the wind and rain will at different times come from different directions. 

I don't have the in depth knowledge and would never claim to be an expert but I am sure that the data gathered reflects reality and not Coffey.